-No

沒有

So as a kid, people used to come to my seminars.

在我年輕時 人們常常來到我的研討會中

Sincere.

真的

And they'd say, "What about telepathy?" "Does that exist?"

他們會說:"心電感應如何?" "這存在嗎"

So, I said, "Well, I have never seen examples of it."

我說:"我從未看過這種例子"

They said, "Well, we have."

他們說:"嗯 但我們看過"

I said, "Well, call those people in,

我說:"那好吧 叫那些人進來

and let's see if they can do that."

並讓我們看看他們是否真能做到"

So,

因此

we brought a guy over from India named Astoya.

我們帶了一位從印度來 叫作阿斯托亞的人

He said he never used a telephone,

他說他從未使用過電話

he could always communicate by telepathy.

他總是能用心電感應溝通

I said, "Boy, if you could demonstrate that, I'm ready to give up science.

我想:"如果你能清楚展示 我就準備放棄研究科學了

What the hell am I gonna bother for?"

不然我是在瞎忙什麼呢?"

Because, what people think is telepathy, is parallel values.

因為人們認為的心電感應 是平行的數值傳遞

If you're growing up with somebody,

如果你與某人一起成長

same type books you read, same school.

閱讀同樣的書籍 去同樣的學校

You can walk down the street, look at the situation, look at the guy and wink.

你就能在街上行走時 觀察狀況 然後看著這個人眨眼

And you get the same reaction if your values are the same.

如果你們的價值觀是一樣的 就會得到同樣的反應

You know what I mean?

你懂我的意思嗎?

People think that's telepathy.

人們認為這是心電感應

And then the women during World War 2,

在二戰的女人們

they'd get up at night and say,

在夜晚會起床然後說:

"Something happened to my son, I know it!". No doubt about it.

"我兒子發生事情了 我知道!" 而沒有人會懷疑

And the next day the war department would bring a

然後隔天戰爭部會帶來通知

notification that their son was killed in action.

說他們的兒子在作戰中身亡了

Doesn't that prove something?

這不能證明某些事嗎?

So I wrote to the war department.

所以我就寫信給戰爭部

I said, "Do you really get letters like that?"

我問:"你們真的收到那種信嗎?"

They said, "We got 15,000 letters a day,

部門裡的人說:"我們每天收到一萬五千封這種信

that something happened to my Johnny, and nothing happened."

像是我的約翰發生了事情 但實際上根本沒事"

You only hear about those that coincidentally happened.

你只會聽過那些碰巧發生的事情

Do you understand what I'm saying?

你瞭解我在說什麼嗎?

I tend to lean that way.

我傾向認同這種說法

Now, I also know that on top of the brain,

我也知道除了腦以外

There's a thing called a meninges.

也有一種叫作腦膜的東西

And it's like a membrane, that prevents inflammation.

它像一層膜一樣 能避免發炎

Even if you think about certain things,

即使你思考某種東西

It doesn't go out of your head. The meninges cover that.

想法並未從腦海中流露出來 腦膜會遮蓋它

Not only that, but all the nerves have a myelin sheath.

不只這樣 所有的神經都有髓鞘

You know what that is?

你知道那是什麼嗎?

Insulation jacket over them, so the nerve can't spill over to another one,

這是神經的絕緣套 所以神經就不會互相干渉

And I say "Good morning, fuck you".

例如我說:"早安 去你的"

It's not like that. The way the brain is rigged,

但不會是像這樣 大腦的運作方式是縝密的

swearing is in a certain area, this is in another area.

咒罵是在特定區域 而這是在另一地區等等

And when you think of mother, you think a wonderful gray haired woman.

當你想到母親時 你想到一位美妙的灰頭髪女人

He thinks of the woman who beat the shit out of him when he was a kid.

或一個人會想到小時侯毒打他一頓的女人

So we all have different associations. That why you can't have telepathy.

所以我們都會聯想起不同背景的事 這就是為何不會有心電感應的原因

The way our brain stores information is different.

我們大腦儲存訊息的方式不一樣

Like, in his head, communism means dictatorship, fascism.

例如在一個人腦中 共產主義表示獨裁 法西斯主義

In his head, it's dictatorship.

另一個人腦中是獨裁

A liberal is a troublemaker in his head.

又在另一個人腦中 自由主義者是麻煩製造者

You understand?

你瞭解嗎?

So, our associative system is so different,

也就是說 我們的聯想系統是如此的不同

unless they were identical patterns

除非它們是相同的模式背景

we can't influence other people.

否則我們不能影響其它人

So, years ago, at seminars.

好幾年前在研討會中

I used to hold seminars.

我過去常舉辦研討會

People would come and say,

人們會過來然後說:

"What about the things beyond the physical?

"超越實質物理以外的東西如何?

You always talking about the physical world.

你一直都在講物質世界

What about the spiritual world?

心靈世界又如何?

What about telepathy?"

心電感應怎麼樣?"

And all that sort of thing.

所有這類的東西

So then I said. I didn't doubt that there was telepathy.

然後我說 我不懷疑有心電感應

I said, "I've never seen it."

但我說:"我從未見過"

So, we brought, we chipped in a lot of money and a lot of friends of mine,

所以我和我許多的朋友們 花了一大筆錢

and we brought a guy over from India

從印度請來了一個人

who said he has the power of telepathy.

他說他有心電感應的能力

I've read about him, He was considered the best.

我讀過關於他的書 他被認為是最厲害的

His name was Astoya.

他的名字是阿斯托亞

We brought him over to this country and I said to him,

我們帶他過來到這個國家 然後我對他說:

"If you can read my mind once."

"試試看你是否能讀取我的心一次"

He says, "I never use a telephone, I always understand telepathically."

他說:"我從未使用電話 我總是用心電感應去理解事物"

I said, "If you can demonstrate that once,

我說:"如果你能說明清楚一次

I will shout it from the highest towers."

我會從世上最高的塔頂大聲喊出來"

Why should I want to make a telephone?

我為何會想要製造電話?

Why should I be interested in science?

我為何要對科學感興趣?

If people if people can do that.

如果人們能夠這樣做到的話

So I said, "Can you demonstrate it?". He says, "Any time."

所以我說:"你能說明它嗎?" 他說:"隨時都可以"

I said, "Do you want the sun up or down, full moon? What's the best conditions?"

我說:"你想要日昇或日落 或滿月時? 怎樣才是最好的狀況?"

He said, "No, any time."

他說:"不 隨時都可以"

I said, "You mean, If I think of something, you can tell me what I'm thinking of?"

我說:"你的意思是 如果我想到什麼東西 你能告訴我 我正想什麼嗎?"

He said, "Always."

他說:"沒錯"

I said, "What if it's scientific?"

我說:"如果它是科學的呢?"

He said, "Well, I won't describe it in scientific terms,

他說:"嗯 我不會以科學觀點描述它

but I will describe the event."

但我會描述整個事件"

I said, "That's good enough for me."

我說:"這樣對我來說就夠了"

So what I pictured, was things that the average person doesn't picture.

所以我腦中想像的 是一般人不會去描繪的東西

Now, if it's an older person, if you say,

如果有一位老人 然後你說:

"There's been a death in the family.",

"在家族中有人死亡"

"Either three weeks or three months ago or a year ago."

"不是在三個禮拜前 就是在三個月或一年以前"

Well, sure, there's always a death in the family when you're 70 years old.

嗯 當然在你七十歲時 家族中總是會有人死亡

When you talk to a young girl, you think in terms of,

當你對一位年輕女孩講話時 你想到的觀點是

'Why your sister gets all the dates and you don't'.

"為何你的姊姊都有約會而你卻沒有"

You fish around.

你亂槍打鳥

And there's always certain things that certain people,

而且總是有特定的事物 是特定的人

there's no more than six different things that older people think of.

比如老一點的人都能想到的 大抵上不超過六個不同的東西

The house, paying rent, getting a job.

像是房子 付房租 得到工作

So he mentions a lot of things, and when you lean forward

所以一個人會先提許多東西 而當你傾身向前時

that gives him a clue, as to whether he's on the right track or not.

就給了他線索 他就知道自己是否猜對了

You understand what I mean?

你懂我的意思嗎?

Diana, you're thinking of something related to some member of your family.

戴安娜 你正在聯想與你家庭成員有關的事物

Yeah.

是的

You fish around for probability.

你可能亂槍打鳥就答對了

So, what I pictured in my head,

所以當時我腦中所描繪的

was a little white mouse.

是一隻白色小老鼠

I picture it walking. And it goes out in the zoo

我想像牠走路 然後牠跑出去到動物園裡

and eats an elephant, and doesn't get any larger.

吃了大象 而且並未變得更大

because if this is really telepathy, this is outside of the norm.

如果這真的是心電感應 這會是不尋常的想像

If there's really telepathy... How can that little mouse

如果真的有心電感應... 一隻小老鼠怎麼可能

eat the elephant and not get any larger? He'd be amazed.

吃掉一隻大象而沒有變得更大隻? 於是阿斯托亞感到驚訝

He came up with, "I see your deceased wife, standing behind you."

他想出"我看到你死去的太太正站在你背後"這個回答

I never had a deceased wife.

但我從未有死去的太太

But, maybe he missed this time.

但或許這次他失手了

So I then pictured something else, you know what i mean?

所以我就想像其它東西 你知道我的意思嗎?

I pictured things like a wood saw, a carpenter's saw.

我想像一隻木鋸 木匠的鋸子

You know what that is?

你知道那是什麼嗎?

The carpenter's saw had two legs and it walks into the forest.

木匠的鋸子有兩隻腳並走進了森林

And a tree looks at the saw and the tree cuts the saw in half.

一顆樹看到了那根鋸子 然後樹把鋸子切成兩半

Have to make sure, if there's telepathy,

要明確的一點是 如果真有心電感應

really, you know, not coincidental.

你懂的 就真的不會碰巧答對

Of course he couldn't get any of the things I thought about.

當然他不能猜出我想像的任何東西

I said, "How come?",

我說:"怎麼會這樣呢?"

I said, "Is it because I'm negative?

我說:"因為我不信心電感應嗎?

I want to know that there's really telepathy."

我想知道是否真的有心電感應"

Well, he was so poor at what he did,

他的作為非常拙劣

I could see that he was a fraud.

我可以看出他是個騙子

Jacque Fresco Talks Continues 26/09/09 Copenhagen, Denmark

雅克．法斯科談話　2009年9月9日於丹麥哥本哈根

Film by Francioscamera.webs.com

由Francioscamera.webs.com製作