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  • Let's begin with the rising tensions between Israel and Iran.

    讓我們以以色列和伊朗之間的緊張局勢升溫作為開始

  • Sanctions put into place by the United States and the European Union

    由美國與歐盟的制裁落實到位

  • are starting to hurt the people of Iran in a major way

    以嚴重的方式開始傷害伊朗人民

  • with access to food and other imports blocked.

    像是阻止人們取得食物及其它進口物資

  • The West hopes that the pain will bring Iran

    西方國家希望這些痛苦會把伊朗

  • back to the bargaining table, in terms of its nuclear program.

    帶回到核子計劃的談判桌

  • In the meantime, Israel is stepping up its threats

    在此期間 以色列正加緊威脅

  • that an attack on Iran may be imminent

    可能一觸即發攻擊伊朗

  • with Israel's Defense Minister Ehud Barak drawing a line in the sand.

    以色列國防部長埃胡德·巴拉克開始軍事沙盤推演

  • He calls it the 'zone of immunity'

    他稱之為「免疫區」

  • the point at which Israel could no longer put off taking action.

    在該點 以色列不能再拖延採取行動:

  • In the West's efforts to isolate Iran

    即西方對伊朗的孤立

  • India has announced it will send a delegation into Iran

    印度已經宣布將派遣代表團到伊朗

  • and has now emerged as Number 1 customer of Iranian oil.

    現在已經成為伊朗石油的第一客戶

  • There are new indications China also will send in officials

    有新跡象表明 中國也將派出官員

  • and this global chess match looks like it may be

    參與全球角力大賽 看起來

  • a messy one and a long one.

    可能是一個混亂漫長的一年

  • Peter Joseph is the founder of The Zeitgeist Movement.

    彼得·約瑟夫是時代精神運動的創始人

  • His group works to tackle some of the toughest issues:

    他的研究小組致力於解決一些最棘手的問題:

  • global economic crises, diplomatic issues, and a lot more.

    全球經濟危機、 外交問題和更多

  • He just returned from Israel.

    他剛從以色列回來

  • - Hey there, Peter. I know you spent about a week there.

    -嘿 彼得 我知道你花了大約一個星期在那裡

  • Talk to me a little bit about your impressions of Israel

    跟我講一點你對以色列人的印象

  • of the people you spoke to, and what's going on there.

    你和那邊的人談過 那邊發生了什麼事?

  • - Thank you Kristine for having me.

    -克里斯汀 謝謝你邀請我

  • Israel is in a very complex state.

    以色列處在一個非常複雜的狀況中

  • On one side you have a very intelligent public

    一方面 它有非常有智慧的公眾

  • that is not representative of the state

    但他們無法代表這個國家

  • that's causing all of these general war-like interests:

    而此國家正導致所有因戰爭而普遍產生的利益:

  • interest in the occupation, the prisons of the West Bank and Gaza

    佔領約旦河西岸和加薩走廊的監獄的利益

  • and everything else that I'm sure we've talked at length, to death about.

    或是其它一些事 我敢肯定 我們已經談得夠多了

  • It's important to initially point out that

    重要的是一開始要指出

  • there's an incredible culture there that does not represent the state.

    有一個了不起的文化並不代表這個國家就了不起

  • In the speech that I gave to a sold-out audience

    在我這場演說中 全場滿座的聽眾

  • full of not only Israelis but Palestinians

    不只有以色列人 還有巴勒斯坦人

  • there is a general interest to want to see all of these problems STOP.

    人們普遍有興趣想看到解決所有這些問題

  • The Zeitgeist Movement's attempt, broadly speaking

    總體上來說 時代精神運動試圖

  • is to get the world to come together with the general foundation

    透過普世性的基礎來團結全世界

  • that these issues have to find resolution holistically

    我們必須要尋求解決這些問題的整體方案

  • or we're going to have some very caustic problems in the future

    否則我們在未來將面對非常日益棘手的問題

  • World War III the first to mention.

    首先就是第三次世界大戰

  • - When you say these issues, as you say

    -當你談論這些問題時 就像你說的

  • war is one of these issues, and it's not just as simple as:

    戰爭是這些問題之一 它不像以下的問題那樣簡單:

  • Should we have war or shouldn't we? I mean, there is

    「我們究竟該不該有戰爭?」 我的意思是

  • number one, a huge defense industry, both in the US and Israel

    第一 一個巨大的國防產業 在美國和以色列都有

  • that, a lot of people say, may have an interest in war.

    有很多人說 他們對引發戰爭相當有興趣

  • I know you've written about in the past, as far as consequences of war

    我知道你之前寫過關於戰爭後果的評論

  • that it benefits the upper class

    它有利於上層階級

  • and it results in the denigration of the lower class.

    也會導致對低下階層的貶損

  • Talk to me about this divide as it relates to war

    當涉及到戰爭 除了合法性的威脅

  • and if you think there's an undercurrent of something else here

    如果你認為還有其他暗藏的東西

  • other than a legitimate threat.

    請跟我談談這個鴻溝

  • - We often hear the term geopolitics;

    -我們經常聽到「地緣政治」這個詞

  • the correct term is geo-economics.

    正確的說法是地緣經濟學

  • If you go down to the foundation of the state:

    如果你看到一個國家的基礎

  • Neolithic Revolution 10,000 years ago

    從一萬年前的新石器時代革命開始

  • suddenly we went from hunter-gatherer type of nomadic societies

    我們是突然從狩獵採集類型的遊牧社會

  • to fixed cities, Mesopotamia

    發展成固定的城市 美索不達米亞平原

  • suddenly the introduction of the permanent military.

    並突然引進永久性軍事活動

  • You ended up with this sort of corporate approach

    結果變成這種軍火業的經營方式

  • to economic management, defined as 'the state'

    來管理經濟 並定義為「國家」

  • which invariably generates imbalance and conflict

    這不可避免地會產生失衡和衝突

  • and the necessity to override the interests of other states.

    並必然衝突到其它國家的利益

  • Very similar by the way to how our economic principles work

    順便一提 我們的經濟原則在世界各地的運作方式

  • across the world, through the corporate enterprise and the

    很相似 即通過企業財團之間的

  • 'free-for-all' market as I often refer to it.

    「自由貿易」市場 就像我經常提到的

  • It's a competitive, war-like system. In the broadest scope

    最廣義來說 這是一個競爭性 類似戰爭的系統

  • what do we expect when the states begin to behave this way?

    一旦國家開始有這樣的行為 我們還能指望什麼?

  • If you were to look at a map of all the territorial disputes

    如果你看一下地圖上的所有領土爭端

  • all the resource acquisitions, all the annexations gone through history

    與所有資源收購 歷史上的所有併吞

  • it's one massive affair of warfare! Thousands and thousands of wars

    這便是一種巨大的戰爭! 成千上萬的戰爭

  • that have existed for the past 5000 years that have been noted.

    在過去五千年已載入史冊

  • The problem is much more underlying.

    問題還在更深層的地方

  • We can talk about the specifics of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    我們可以談論以巴衝突的細節

  • We can talk about the Chinese, Russian and Iranian issue

    我們可以談論中國 俄羅斯和伊朗的問題

  • with respect to power development against US

    關於發展武力來對抗美國

  • Israel, Canadian and Western interests

    與以色列 加拿大和西方國家的利益

  • which is very terrifying by the way

    這些都是很可怕的

  • especially given the financial burden and collapse

    特別是考慮到財政負擔和崩潰

  • we're seeing across the world, which is always

    我們正在世界各地看到 而這些常常是

  • a characteristic of warfare on the horizon.

    戰爭即將爆發的一種特質

  • Underneath the whole thing is the economic premise

    整個問題根源是經濟基礎的假設

  • and until we find economic resolution

    而且直到我們找到如何解決經濟問題

  • until we begin to learn how to share our resources

    直到我們開始學習如何分享我們的資源之前

  • speaking poetically, but very literally:

    這是富有詩意的講法 但字面意思就是:

  • Until we can define a new level of what we see as peace

    直到我們可以定義一個新的和平水準

  • meaning a collaborative effort

    意思是共同努力

  • not state entities seeking their own advantage over each other

    而非國家之間互相爭奪自身利益

  • but something new, which I can talk at length

    而是嘗試新方法 我可以再說更多一點

  • we're not going to see any resolution to any of these issues.

    否則我們無法找到任何的問題解決方案

  • That's a fundamental premise, in part, of the type of

    某部分而言 這就是時代精神運動

  • economic reforms The Zeitgeist Movement pushes forward with.

    所要推動的經濟改革基本假設

  • - What was your reasoning, Peter, for taking this movement?

    -彼得 你推行這個運動的理由是為了什麼?

  • I know you've got a lot of followers from around the world.

    我知道你有很多來自世界各地的追隨者

  • What was your reasoning for going physically to Israel

    是什麼原因讓你親自去拜訪以色列

  • and speaking there?

    並發表你的演說?

  • - Well, because it is the hotbed of a great deal of tension in the world

    -嗯 因為它是世界上最緊張的區域

  • it's seen as one of the most pivotal crises and

    以巴衝突被視為最關鍵的危機之一

  • positions of destabilization in the world.

    處於全球不穩定的位置

  • It was symbolic to go there and to speak on the issue of war.

    這是象徵性的造訪 為戰爭問題發聲

  • The lecture that I gave was on the broad definition of the state:

    我演講的內容是關於國家的廣泛定義

  • its evolution as I mentioned just a moment ago

    其發展正如我剛才所提到的

  • and how we really can resolve this issue.

    而我談論如何能確實解決這個問題

  • I went there for symbolic reasons, but also

    我去那裡的原因是象徵性的

  • obviously, because of the growing tensions

    但顯然也因為日益緊張的趨勢而去那裡

  • between these massive superpowers

    在這些龐大的超級大國之間

  • that are now dividing themselves

    它們現在正在分裂自身

  • that can very easily trigger another world war, which is

    這很容易引發另一次世界大戰

  • what terrifies all of us. Those are a few levels [of] why I was there.

    這嚇壞了我們所有人 這就是我為何到以色列的幾個層面的考量

  • - You've laid out some of these problems

    -你已經指出了其中的一些問題

  • and I think that they're, for anyone who is following what's going on

    我也認為(對正在關注這些事情的人而言)

  • keeping their hand on a pulse of geopolitics

    他們正在維持並干涉地緣政治的脈動

  • or as you say geo-economics

    或像你說的地緣經濟

  • these issues are out there. But, are there solutions available

    這些問題都在那裡 但是有沒有解決方案?

  • or do you just think war is inevitable between Iran and the West?

    還是你認為伊朗和西方國家之間的戰爭是必然的?

  • I'm not a prophet, but I will say that generally speaking

    我不是預言家 但我會說 一般來講

  • war has been inevitable for a long time

    戰爭已不可避免地存在了很長一段時間

  • based on the very nature of the structures that have been installed

    其基礎是早已根深蒂固的社會結構本質

  • and the very dynamic of our economic system.

    及變化莫測的的經濟體系

  • Are there solutions that can be had in the meantime? Yes

    而在這期間我們是否能有解決方案? 是有的

  • but I don't think they're going to come from

    但我不認為那會來自

  • 'speaking truth to power' as they say.

    如人們所說的「說真相給權力者聽」

  • I am in deep support of a large, grassroots, global movement

    我極力支持大型 基層 全球性的運動

  • that unifies humanity to step up against this rather sick distortion

    人類透過這些運動團結起來 以加緊對抗這個已嚴重畸形

  • that has emerged throughout power across the board.

    但已成為影響全球的一股勢力

  • We can talk about the neuroses of the US Empire

    我們可以討論美國帝國的偏執

  • ...about the neuroses of various Arabic states, of Israel as well.

    或是有關阿拉伯國家的狂熱 或是以色列等等

  • We can talk about all of these things to death as far as the specifics

    我們可以討論所有這些種種特定細節到死為止

  • but at the very core of this comes a deep social change

    但在這些問題的核心裡 涉及的是一個

  • that's required, and it's going to take a grassroots movement

    最深的社會變革 並要採取一個最基層的運動

  • to move this forward; I have little faith in the change

    來推動向前 我對來自美國帝國的改變

  • coming from the state empires.

    不具信心

  • - We understand that you'll be working on it in the meantime.

    -我們知道你此時正為此努力中

  • Peter Joseph, founder of The Zeitgeist Movement.

    彼得·約瑟夫 時代精神運動的創始人

Let's begin with the rising tensions between Israel and Iran.

讓我們以以色列和伊朗之間的緊張局勢升溫作為開始

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