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- And to help me sort things out in addition is Peter Joseph
founder of the Zeitgeist Movement
Peter, I know that you have put a major critique of the mainstream media
and its coverage of the Occupy Wall Street movement.
Lay this out for me. What's your biggest beef
with what we've been seeing in the Occupy Wall Street movement
and how it's been covered?
- Needless to say the mainstream media is doing
what it always does best and that's maintaining the status quo.
It's not a far-fetched understanding to see that the values
that are perpetuated by this system that are associated with wealth generation
and the corporations that run this country are going to do the best they can
to make sure the public is not aware of the growing crisis
that this economic system is creating across the board.
I want to commend RT once again for what I've just seen:
It's really wonderful the service that you are providing.
Mainstream media? I've dismissed it long ago.
- We appreciate it. We have been out covering this since the first day
before a lot of people even heard of this, but I will say
that I keep my eyes on what's on the cable networks
and they have started to be out there a little more in terms of covering
and showing that this is actually going on.
I do also have to say that I've seen more stories about
the gap between rich and poor, income and inequality...
You've given up on the mainstream media, but do you think
that after some time, that having this discussion will change things
will lead to a better country?
- Or a better world. I do think the pressures that are emerging
are not going to stop. What's been generated with Occupy Wall Street (OWS)
what underscores that generation: angst, anger.
That 'insurrection' isn't going to stop
because of the mechanisms of this system
(which I'm happy to talk about as we continue) and the mainstream media
will be forced to recognize some attributes of it.
But it's always going to be a colored in a particular way
because that's basically what they have to do.
That's where their talking points come from.
But I don't dismiss the mainstream media. I say that in rhetoric.
Obviously I'm paying attention too or I wouldn't make the commentary that I do
but I think the public needs to begin to understand
that having the concentration of corporate power
ownership of these major, mainstream institutions
is always going to produce biased media and it's a natural consequence.
It's not that the people are unethical who run the mainstream.
It's just the value that's associated and what they promote.
Just like RT and other great more independent avenues
have values that are much more open, they're much broader
more informed, and therefore you represent actually
what many people want to see, what the voice of the people may actually be
as opposed to the filtering that goes through the mainstream.
The entire Occupy Movement began as a blackout
and then the outrageous criticisms calling them communists and socialists
and a bunch of drug addicts or people without jobs and no incentive.
All that stuff went through that phase. Now we have hit a phase
where the mainstream is going to pay some type of attention
but I want to alert everybody that it's going to be colored
so everyone needs to go to outlets that are not mainstream.
They need to start to frequent blog. They need to frequent
all of the independent media that has arisen
from common people that are reporting.
Fortunately, we live in a world with everyone having cameras now
so it's very easy to go to videoblogs
and actually see and digest information yourself.
- Or even go to some of these places, some of these parks where people are.
It seems like more and more they're happening all around the country.
Peter, I want to talk really quickly about the Zeitgeist Movement.
It encourages also a change in the system.
When it comes to some of the things that these protesters on OWS
are frustrated with: a government with officials that are very much chosen
by the amount of money they can raise, banks being bailed out
veterans returning home and not being able to find a job
I guess I want to get your take, pick your brain a little bit.
What are your solutions to some of these problems?
Just to correct the language quickly, it's not 'my' solutions.
It's solutions that have come about through a very simple technical analysis
of what defines society: what creates good public health
good mental health, what we have learned about social management
when it comes to our scientific benchmark.
Just to point out before I answer that question, our entire social system
is based on an archaic view a traditional notion
that was established long ago.
It's really an extension to feudalism is what the political system is today.
The economic system is a socially Darwinistic notion
that there isn't enough to go around, so we have all these mechanisms
built in for scarcity and we now have one billion people starving
on this planet, 3 billion people living on less than $2 a day.
You look at the consequences of this system and then you step back
and you think about what a true economic system might be
and a train of thought will be established.
A true economic system is not a system
based on exchange, money and labor for income.
That's a contrivance that we've concocted through traditional unfoldings
as we've learned through time
what our place in the world actually is, what we are.
A true economy, which is what's now emerging in the public mind
is the management of the Earth.
A true economy is management of this household that we have
and proper management is a technical orientation.
Meeting the needs of human population is a technical orientation.
Just as we build an airplane with a very specific design
(you can't have too much deviation
or you might injure the efficiency or efficacy of that airplane)
we have to construct society technically.
I can go on a long tangent about what a technical approach
to the social management may be, but let me just say this:
If we do not actually begin to manage the Earth's resources
if we do not actually begin to take care of society as it is
we are going to see numerous forms of destabilization occur
systemically breaking down the social order
causing much more chaos than we are beginning to see now.
- Peter, you are speaking in very broad terms.
A total restructuring of society sounds like a great idea
but what about realistically in terms of
some of these very specific problems plaguing society right now?
Obviously everyone, especially down there in this movement believes
that an entire restructuring needs to happen
but do you think that there are some things that can happen now?
- Yes, I do think that there are things that can happen now but
the things that will happen now will only be patches
until the larger order restructuring occurs.
Most of the people in the protest community:
OWS or even in the mainstream activist community
never stop to think about the structure of this system
the structure and the psychology and values
that come from that structure and what's reinforced.
That's where the Zeitgeist Movement really comes into play.
I can list all sorts of things that could alleviate different tensions
as far as the debt crisis. First
you're going to have to have debt forgiveness across the board
if you expect to stop the cancer of debt growth. That's it.
The entire system is based on debt being created
money being created out of debt, interest charged upon it
so you have boom, your black hole:
instant, exponentially increasing, unstoppable, debt growth, period.
That's it. It's structural to the system.
How many people are talking about that? Not that many.
- I think a lot of these protesters are talking about
this system needs to change. Most people are just still very unsure
how that happens... Unfortunately we're out of time.
Peter Joseph, founder of the Zeitgeist Movement.
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彼得·約瑟夫佔領華爾街| “RT電視台”2011年10月27日[債該死運動] (Peter Joseph on Media & Occupy Wall Street | 'Russia Today' Oct 27, 2011 [The Zeitgeist Movement])

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