about labor and work.

勞動與工作。

When we think about how people work,

當談到人們是怎麼工作的時候，

the naive intuition we have

我們的直覺是

is that people are like rats in a maze --

人們就有如迷宮中的老鼠一樣 --

that all people care about is money,

都只在乎錢(老鼠只在乎芝士)

and the moment we give people money,

只要我們給錢，

we can direct them to work one way,

就可以隨意地命令他們這樣做，

we can direct them to work another way.

或是那樣做。

This is why we give bonuses to bankers and pay in all kinds of ways.

這就是為什麼我們會給銀行家紅利和各種補貼。

And we really have this incredibly simplistic view

我們對於人們工作的原因和勞工市場

of why people work and what the labor market looks like.

也有著非常天真的看法。

At the same time, if you think about it,

與此同時，如果你想想看，你就會發現

there's all kinds of strange behaviors in the world around us.

其實我們身邊充滿著千古百怪的行為。

Think about something like mountaineering and mountain climbing.

拿登山和攀登來說好了。

If you read books of people who climb mountains, difficult mountains,

當你閱讀克服高山的登山者傳記時，

do you think that those books are full of moments of joy and happiness?

你認為書中充滿喜悅和快樂的時刻嗎?

No, they are full of misery.

不，裡頭充滿痛苦。

In fact, it's all about frostbite and difficulty to walk

事實上，全是凍傷、舉步維艱

and difficulty of breathing --

呼吸困難 --

cold, challenging circumstances.

寒冷、艱難的生存條件。

And if people were just trying to be happy,

如果人們就只是想要獲得，

the moment they would get to the top,

在攻頂那一剎那的快樂的話，

they would say, "This was a terrible mistake.

他們會說：「這真是個可怕的錯誤。

I'll never do it again."

我打死也不會再做這種事了。」

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

"Instead, let me sit on a beach somewhere drinking mojitos."

「還是讓我坐在沙灘上享用莫吉托(雞尾酒) 吧。」

But instead, people go down,

但卻恰好相反，他們下山後，

and after they recover, they go up again.

體力一旦恢復，他們又會再度出發。

And if you think about mountain climbing as an example,

若以登山為例，

it suggests all kinds of things.

它說明了很多事情。

It suggests that we care about reaching the end, a peak.

它說明了我們是在乎能否抵達終點，直到巔峰。

It suggests that we care about the fight, about the challenge.

也說明我們在乎過程中的堅持與挑戰。

It suggests that there's all kinds of other things

它意味著世上還有許多事物可以

that motivate us to work or behave in all kinds of ways.

促使我們在各領域上努力工作或表現。

And for me personally, I started thinking about this

對我來說，我是在一位學生來探望我之後

after a student came to visit me.

才開始思考這件事的。

This was a student that was one of my students a few years earlier.

他是我幾年前的學生。

And he came one day back to campus.

有一天他回到校園

And he told me the following story:

敘述以下的故事給我聽：

He said that for more than two weeks, he was working on a PowerPoint presentation.

他說他為了一份簡報忙了兩個多禮拜。

He was working in a big bank.

那時他在一間大銀行工作。

This was in preparation for a merger and acquisition.

這份簡報是為公司的併購計劃而準備的。

And he was working very hard on this presentation --

他也盡心盡力地去做這份簡報--

graphs, tables, information.

圖表，表格，資料。

He stayed late at night every day.

他每天都在熬夜。

And the day before it was due,

在截止日的前一天

he sent his PowerPoint presentation to his boss,

他把這份簡報寄給了他的老闆，

and his boss wrote him back and said,

而他老闆則回應他說：

"Nice presentation, but the merger is canceled."

「這份簡報做得還不錯，但合併計劃已經取消了。」

And the guy was deeply depressed.

之後他就覺得非常沮喪。

Now at the moment when he was working,

但當他在做這份簡報的時候

he was actually quite happy.

他其實還滿開心的。

Every night he was enjoying his work,

每個晚上他都很享受著這份工作，

he was staying late, he was perfecting this PowerPoint presentation.

享受著熬夜，也享受著把簡報完美化。

But knowing that nobody would ever watch that made him quite depressed.

可是得知沒有人會看到這份簡報之後，他大受打擊。

So I started thinking about how do we experiment

所以我才開始思考我們該如何實驗

with this idea of the fruits of our labor.

勞動的成果這個概念。

And to start with, we created a little experiment

一開始，我們設計了一個小實驗。

in which we gave people Legos, and we asked them to build with Legos.

實驗中，我們把樂高給實驗對象並要求他們堆出東西。

And for some people, we gave them Legos and we said,

其中一部份的人，在我們給他們樂高之後，我們就跟他說，

"Hey, would you like to build this Bionicle for three dollars?

「你願不願組出一個價值 $3.00 的 ”生化戰士” (Bionicle)?」

We'll pay you three dollars for it."

我們會用 $3.00 跟你買。」

And people said yes, and they built with these Legos.

他們答應之後便用樂高組出 ”生化戰士”。

And when they finished, we took it, we put it under the table,

完成之後，我們把成品拿走並將它放置在桌下，

and we said, "Would you like to build another one, this time for $2.70?"

然後再問：「你願不願意再組一個? 這次價格為 $2.70。」

If they said yes, we gave them another one.

如果他們答應，我們再給他們另一組樂高。

And when they finished, we asked them,

他們完成之後，我們又問他們，

"Do you want to build another one?" for $2.40, $2.10, and so on,

「你想不想再組一個?」價格為 $2.40, 為$2.10… 以此類推，

until at some point people said, "No more. It's not worth it for me."

直到他們說，「這根本划不來，我不做了。」

This was what we called the meaningful condition.

這就是我們稱為有意義的狀況。

People built one Bionicle after another.

實驗對象堆出一個又一個 ”生化戰士”。

After they finished every one of them, we put them under the table.

當他們全部都完成之後，我們就把成品放在桌下

And we told them that at the end of the experiment,

並在實驗最後告知他們，

we will take all these Bionicles, we will disassemble them,

我們會回收並拆解所有的 ”生化戰士”，

we will put them back in the boxes, and we will use it for the next participant.

我們會把它們放回箱子給下一個對象使用。

There was another condition.

還有另一個情形。

This other condition was inspired by David, my student.

這個情形是從我的學生，大衛，身上所得到的靈感。

And this other condition we called the Sisyphic condition.

我們稱它為西西弗斯的狀況。

And if you remember the story about Sisyphus,

如果你記得西西弗斯的故事，

Sisyphus was punished by the gods to push the same rock up a hill,

西西弗斯受到上帝的懲罰並要他把一塊特定的巨石推上山頂，

and when he almost got to the end,

正當他將要抵達終點的時候，

the rock would roll over, and he would have to start again.

這塊巨石就會滾下山，那他就得再來一次。

And you can think about this as the essence of doing futile work.

你可以把這當作是徒勞的本質。

You can imagine that if he pushed the rock on different hills,

你可以想像如果他把石塊推往其他的山，

at least he would have some sense of progress.

他至少會感覺有些許的進展。

Also, if you look at prison movies,

還有，如果你看過以監獄為題材的電影

sometimes the way that the guards torture the prisoners

那你就會發現有時候獄警虐待犯人的方法

is to get them to dig a hole

就是叫他們去挖地洞。

and when the prisoner is finished, they ask him to fill the hole back up and then dig again.

當犯人挖完以後，獄警們就會讓他把洞給補滿然後再重挖。

There's something about this cyclical version

在這個週期性

of doing something over and over and over

一而再地重復做某一件事的行為之中

that seems to be particularly demotivating.

彷彿有些什麼東西是特別讓人消極的。

So in the second condition of this experiment, that's exactly what we did.

所以我們就在第二個情形的實驗當中這麼做。

We asked people, "Would you like to build one Bionicle for three dollars?"

我們問實驗對象，「你想不想堆出一個價值為 $3.00 的 "生化戰士"?」

And if they said yes, they built it.

如果他們說好，那他們就會去堆一個出來。

Then we asked them, "Do you want to build another one for $2.70?"

之後我們再問他們，「你想不想為$2.70再造一個? 」

And if they said yes, we gave them a new one,

如果他們說好，那我們就會給他們一個新的 "生化戰士"。

and as they were building it,

在他們在堆的時後，

we took apart the one that they just finished.

我們就會把他們前一個成品給拆了。

And when they finished that,

然後當他們完成後，

we said, "Would you like to build another one, this time for 30 cents less?"

我們又會說，「你願不願意再造一個? 這次會比上一個少 $0.30」

And if they said yes, we gave them the one that they built and we broke.

如果他們又說好，我們就會把之前拆掉的給他們。

So this was an endless cycle

所以，這就是個永無止境的循環，

of them building and us destroying in front of their eyes.

他們不停地堆而我們則是不停地當著他們的面拆。

Now what happens when you compare these two conditions?

如果你拿這兩種情形來比較，會發生什麼狀況呢?

The first thing that happened

第一件發生的事就是

was that people built many more Bionicles -- they built 11 versus seven --

一組人堆出較多的 "生化戰士" -- 數量為 11 比 7

in the meaningful condition versus the Sisyphus condition.

這是有意義狀況和西西弗斯相較之下的比值。

And by the way, we should point out that this was not a big meaning.

我們應該順便提一下，這結果的意義其實並不大。

People were not curing cancer or building bridges.

他們並不是在治療癌症，也不是在建橋梁。

People were building Bionicles for a few cents.

他們只是在為了幾毛錢去堆 "生化戰士"罷了。

And not only that, everybody knew that the Bionicles would be destroyed quite soon.

不僅如此，大家都知道堆出來的 "生化戰士" 很快就會被拆掉。

So there was not a real opportunity for big meaning.

所以從頭到尾也沒所謂的重大意義。

But even the small meaning made a difference.

但即便是意義小，也有影響力。

Now we had another version of this experiment.

現在我們有另一個實驗版本。

In this other version of the experiment,

在這個版本中，

we didn't put people in this situation,

沒有人參與這個情況，

we just described to them the situation, much as I am describing to you now,

我們只跟他們講述，就像我跟你們描述一樣。

and we asked them to predict what the result would be.

然後我們請他們預測結果。

What happened?

發生什麼事了呢?

People predicted the right direction but not the right magnitude.

大家的預測大致上都是對的，但數值上卻有所出入。

People who were just given the description of the experiment

那些只聽過描述的實驗對象

said that in the meaningful condition people would probably build one more Bionicle.

表示他們大概會在有意義的情況下多堆一個 "生化戰士" 出來。

So people understand that meaning is important,

所以說，大家都了解意義很重要，

they just don't understand the magnitude of the importance,

但他們只是不了解它有"多"重要，

the extent to which it's important.

是何種程度上的重要。

There was one other piece of data we looked at.

我們還可以參考另一個數據。

If you think about it, there are some people who love Legos and some people who don't.

你想一下就會發現有的人很喜歡樂高，也有的人不喜歡。

And you would speculate that the people who love Legos

你應該可以推測出來，喜歡樂高的人

will build more Legos, even for less money,

即使錢比較少，他們還是會去堆多些樂高

because after all, they get more internal joy from it.

因為他們畢竟會從中得到更多的喜悅。

And the people who love Legos less will build less Legos

相對的，那些比較不喜歡樂高的人會堆較少的樂高

because the enjoyment that they derive from it is lower.

因為他們從中得到的喜悅較少。

And that's actually what we found in the meaningful condition.

其實就是我們在有意義的狀況中得到的結果。

There was a very nice correlation between love of Lego

對樂高的喜愛度和成品的數量

and the amount of Legos people built.

成正比。

What happened in the Sisyphic condition?

那西西弗斯狀況下出現了什麼情形呢?

In that condition the correlation was zero.

在這個情況中，相關性為零。

There was no relationship between the love of Lego and how much people built,

對樂高的喜愛和成品的數量是毫無關係的

which suggests to me that with this manipulation

並告訴我，在人們面前

of breaking things in front of people's eyes,

摧毀東西的這個手段，

we basically crushed any joy that they could get out of this activity.

基本上我們是在粉碎他們從中得到的任何喜悅。

We basically eliminated it.

我們根本就是把它給毀滅了。

Soon after I finished running this experiment,

這實驗一結束，

I went to talk to a big software company in Seattle.

我去跟一家在西雅圖的大軟體公司。

I can't tell you who they were, but they were a big company in Seattle.

我不能跟你說他們是誰，但是他們在西雅圖是一家大公司。

And this was a group within this software company that was put in a different building.

在這個軟體公司的這組人被安置在另一個大廈。

And they asked them to innovate and create the next big product for this company.

為了創造出下一個創新的當紅產品。

And the week before I showed up,

在我出現的前一週，

the CEO of this big software company went to that group, 200 engineers,

這公司的執行長當著這一組，200位工程師的面

and canceled the project.

取消了他們的項目。

And I stood there in front of 200 of the most depressed people I've ever talked to.

我站在這群我這輩子交談過最沮喪的200個人面前。

And I described to them some of these Lego experiments,

開始跟他們描述這些樂高實驗，

and they said they felt like they had just been through that experiment.

他們說，他們彷彿身歷其境。

And I asked them, I said,

我問他們，

"How many of you now show up to work later than you used to?"

「有多少人現在比以前晚到公司的?」

And everybody raised their hand.

大家都舉手。

I said, "How many of you now go home earlier than you used to?"

我又問：「又有多少人是比往常更早回家的?」

And everybody raised their hand.

大家又舉起了手。

I asked them, "How many of you now add not-so-kosher things to your expense reports?"

我再問他們：「你們現在有多少個人在開銷報告中加入了不太適當的事物?」

And they didn't really raise their hands,

他們沒有舉手，

but they took me out to dinner and showed me what they could do with expense reports.

但在他們帶我去晚餐的時候，實際展現了他們花公帳的能力。

And then I asked them, I said,

於是我問他們：

"What could the CEO have done to make you not as depressed?"

「你們的執行長該如何做才能讓你們減低沮喪呢?」

And they came up with all kinds of ideas.

他們想出一堆點子。

They said the CEO could have asked them to present to the whole company

他們說，執行長可以讓他們向整個公司報告

about their journey over the last two years and what they decided to do.

他們這兩年來的歷程以及想要執行的計劃。

He could have asked them to think about which aspect of their technology

或是請他們想一想他們的技術上哪一方面

could fit with other parts of the organization.

可以跟公司其他的部門融合在一起。

He could have asked them to build some prototypes, some next-generation prototypes,

他可以請他們製造一些原型，一些新一代的原型

and seen how they would work.

並測試它們。

But the thing is that any one of those

但以上任何一項提議都

would require some effort and motivation.

需要些許的努力與動機。

And I think the CEO basically did not understand the importance of meaning.

我覺得執行長基本上不懂"意義"的重要性。

If the CEO, just like our participants,

如果這執行長像我們的實驗對象一樣，

thought the essence of meaning is unimportant,

覺得意義的本質是不重要的，

then he [wouldn't] care.

那他就不會在乎。

And he would tell them, "At the moment I directed you in this way,

而且他就會告訴他們，「那時候，我叫你們去東，

and now that I am directing you in this way,

現在我叫你們去西，

everything will be okay."

一切都會沒問題的。」

But if you understood how important meaning is,

但如果你明白"意義"的重要性，

then you would figure out that it's actually important

你應該知道花一些時間精力

to spend some time, energy and effort

努力讓人們關心自己所做的事

in getting people to care more about what they're doing.

是很重要的。

The next experiment was slightly different.

下一個實驗有點不同。

We took a sheet of paper with random letters,

我們拿了一張紙，上面隨意的寫上了一些字母，

and we asked people to find pairs of letters that were identical next to each other.

我們請實驗對象在紙上找出和相鄰相同的字母組。

That was the task.

這個就是他們的課題。(文書處理)

And people did the first sheet.

然後他們把第一張做完。

And then we asked them if they wanted to do the next sheet for a little bit less money

我們問他們願不願以較低的工資再做一張

and the next sheet for a little bit less money, and so on and so forth.

下一張的錢又少了些，以此類推。

And we had three conditions.

我們有三種情況。

In the first condition, people wrote their name on the sheet,

在第一種情況，實驗對象把他們的名字寫在紙上，

found all the pairs of letters, gave it to the experimenter.

等找到所有的字母組後，把紙交給研究人員。

The experimenter would look at it, scan it from top to bottom,

研究人員會把那張紙重頭看到尾，

say "uh huh" and put it on the pile next to them.

說聲「對」 然後把它放在旁邊的紙堆上。

In the second condition, people did not write their name on it.

第二種情況，實驗對象不用把名字寫在紙上。

The experimenter looked at it,

研究人員看了它一眼

took the sheet of paper, did not look at it, did not scan it,

就把紙給拿走了，連讀也不讀

and simply put it on the pile of pages.

直接把它放在紙堆上。

So you take a piece, you just put it on the side.

也就是說，你拿了一張，然後就將它放在一旁。

And in the third condition,

然後，第三種狀況，

the experimenter got the sheet of paper and directly put it into a shredder.

研究人員拿到紙後，直接把它放入碎紙機中。

What happened in those three conditions?

這三種情況會造成什麼結果呢?

In this plot I'm showing you at what pay rate people stopped.

現在我給你看的圖表是告訴你人們是在什麼支付費率停止的。

So low numbers mean that people worked harder. They worked for much longer.

也就是說，數字越低表示人們較努力，也做得較久。

In the acknowledged condition, people worked all the way down to 15 cents.

在受到肯定的條件下，人們願意一直做到 $0.15 元。

At 15 cents per page, they basically stopped these efforts.

當工資為每張 $0.15 時，基本上，他們就不再做了。

In the shredder condition, it was twice as much -- 30 cents per sheet.

碎紙機的情況中，工資為前者整整高出兩倍之多 -- 每張 $0.30

And this is basically the result we had before.

基本上和我們之前所得到的結果一樣。

You shred people's efforts, output,

你撕碎了他人的努力和成果，