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  • I want to talk a little bit today

    我今天想來談談

  • about labor and work.

    勞動與工作。

  • When we think about how people work,

    當談到人們是怎麼工作的時候,

  • the naive intuition we have

    我們的直覺是

  • is that people are like rats in a maze --

    人們就有如迷宮中的老鼠一樣 --

  • that all people care about is money,

    都只在乎錢(老鼠只在乎芝士)

  • and the moment we give people money,

    只要我們給錢,

  • we can direct them to work one way,

    就可以隨意地命令他們這樣做,

  • we can direct them to work another way.

    或是那樣做。

  • This is why we give bonuses to bankers and pay in all kinds of ways.

    這就是為什麼我們會給銀行家紅利和各種補貼。

  • And we really have this incredibly simplistic view

    我們對於人們工作的原因和勞工市場

  • of why people work and what the labor market looks like.

    也有著非常天真的看法。

  • At the same time, if you think about it,

    與此同時,如果你想想看,你就會發現

  • there's all kinds of strange behaviors in the world around us.

    其實我們身邊充滿著千古百怪的行為。

  • Think about something like mountaineering and mountain climbing.

    拿登山和攀登來說好了。

  • If you read books of people who climb mountains, difficult mountains,

    當你閱讀克服高山的登山者傳記時,

  • do you think that those books are full of moments of joy and happiness?

    你認為書中充滿喜悅和快樂的時刻嗎?

  • No, they are full of misery.

    不,裡頭充滿痛苦。

  • In fact, it's all about frostbite and difficulty to walk

    事實上,全是凍傷、舉步維艱

  • and difficulty of breathing --

    呼吸困難 --

  • cold, challenging circumstances.

    寒冷、艱難的生存條件。

  • And if people were just trying to be happy,

    如果人們就只是想要獲得,

  • the moment they would get to the top,

    在攻頂那一剎那的快樂的話,

  • they would say, "This was a terrible mistake.

    他們會說:「這真是個可怕的錯誤。

  • I'll never do it again."

    我打死也不會再做這種事了。」

  • (Laughter)

    (笑聲)

  • "Instead, let me sit on a beach somewhere drinking mojitos."

    「還是讓我坐在沙灘上享用莫吉托(雞尾酒) 吧。」

  • But instead, people go down,

    但卻恰好相反,他們下山後,

  • and after they recover, they go up again.

    體力一旦恢復,他們又會再度出發。

  • And if you think about mountain climbing as an example,

    若以登山為例,

  • it suggests all kinds of things.

    它說明了很多事情。

  • It suggests that we care about reaching the end, a peak.

    它說明了我們是在乎能否抵達終點,直到巔峰。

  • It suggests that we care about the fight, about the challenge.

    也說明我們在乎過程中的堅持與挑戰。

  • It suggests that there's all kinds of other things

    它意味著世上還有許多事物可以

  • that motivate us to work or behave in all kinds of ways.

    促使我們在各領域上努力工作或表現。

  • And for me personally, I started thinking about this

    對我來說,我是在一位學生來探望我之後

  • after a student came to visit me.

    才開始思考這件事的。

  • This was a student that was one of my students a few years earlier.

    他是我幾年前的學生。

  • And he came one day back to campus.

    有一天他回到校園

  • And he told me the following story:

    敘述以下的故事給我聽:

  • He said that for more than two weeks, he was working on a PowerPoint presentation.

    他說他為了一份簡報忙了兩個多禮拜。

  • He was working in a big bank.

    那時他在一間大銀行工作。

  • This was in preparation for a merger and acquisition.

    這份簡報是為公司的併購計劃而準備的。

  • And he was working very hard on this presentation --

    他也盡心盡力地去做這份簡報--

  • graphs, tables, information.

    圖表,表格,資料。

  • He stayed late at night every day.

    他每天都在熬夜。

  • And the day before it was due,

    在截止日的前一天

  • he sent his PowerPoint presentation to his boss,

    他把這份簡報寄給了他的老闆,

  • and his boss wrote him back and said,

    而他老闆則回應他說:

  • "Nice presentation, but the merger is canceled."

    「這份簡報做得還不錯,但合併計劃已經取消了。」

  • And the guy was deeply depressed.

    之後他就覺得非常沮喪。

  • Now at the moment when he was working,

    但當他在做這份簡報的時候

  • he was actually quite happy.

    他其實還滿開心的。

  • Every night he was enjoying his work,

    每個晚上他都很享受著這份工作,

  • he was staying late, he was perfecting this PowerPoint presentation.

    享受著熬夜,也享受著把簡報完美化。

  • But knowing that nobody would ever watch that made him quite depressed.

    可是得知沒有人會看到這份簡報之後,他大受打擊。

  • So I started thinking about how do we experiment

    所以我才開始思考我們該如何實驗

  • with this idea of the fruits of our labor.

    勞動的成果這個概念。

  • And to start with, we created a little experiment

    一開始,我們設計了一個小實驗。

  • in which we gave people Legos, and we asked them to build with Legos.

    實驗中,我們把樂高給實驗對象並要求他們堆出東西。

  • And for some people, we gave them Legos and we said,

    其中一部份的人,在我們給他們樂高之後,我們就跟他說,

  • "Hey, would you like to build this Bionicle for three dollars?

    「你願不願組出一個價值 $3.00 的 ”生化戰士” (Bionicle)?」

  • We'll pay you three dollars for it."

    我們會用 $3.00 跟你買。」

  • And people said yes, and they built with these Legos.

    他們答應之後便用樂高組出 ”生化戰士”。

  • And when they finished, we took it, we put it under the table,

    完成之後,我們把成品拿走並將它放置在桌下,

  • and we said, "Would you like to build another one, this time for $2.70?"

    然後再問:「你願不願意再組一個? 這次價格為 $2.70。」

  • If they said yes, we gave them another one.

    如果他們答應,我們再給他們另一組樂高。

  • And when they finished, we asked them,

    他們完成之後,我們又問他們,

  • "Do you want to build another one?" for $2.40, $2.10, and so on,

    「你想不想再組一個?」價格為 $2.40, 為$2.10… 以此類推,

  • until at some point people said, "No more. It's not worth it for me."

    直到他們說,「這根本划不來,我不做了。」

  • This was what we called the meaningful condition.

    這就是我們稱為有意義的狀況。

  • People built one Bionicle after another.

    實驗對象堆出一個又一個 ”生化戰士”。

  • After they finished every one of them, we put them under the table.

    當他們全部都完成之後,我們就把成品放在桌下

  • And we told them that at the end of the experiment,

    並在實驗最後告知他們,

  • we will take all these Bionicles, we will disassemble them,

    我們會回收並拆解所有的 ”生化戰士”,

  • we will put them back in the boxes, and we will use it for the next participant.

    我們會把它們放回箱子給下一個對象使用。

  • There was another condition.

    還有另一個情形。

  • This other condition was inspired by David, my student.

    這個情形是從我的學生,大衛,身上所得到的靈感。

  • And this other condition we called the Sisyphic condition.

    我們稱它為西西弗斯的狀況。

  • And if you remember the story about Sisyphus,

    如果你記得西西弗斯的故事,

  • Sisyphus was punished by the gods to push the same rock up a hill,

    西西弗斯受到上帝的懲罰並要他把一塊特定的巨石推上山頂,

  • and when he almost got to the end,

    正當他將要抵達終點的時候,

  • the rock would roll over, and he would have to start again.

    這塊巨石就會滾下山,那他就得再來一次。

  • And you can think about this as the essence of doing futile work.

    你可以把這當作是徒勞的本質。

  • You can imagine that if he pushed the rock on different hills,

    你可以想像如果他把石塊推往其他的山,

  • at least he would have some sense of progress.

    他至少會感覺有些許的進展。

  • Also, if you look at prison movies,

    還有,如果你看過以監獄為題材的電影

  • sometimes the way that the guards torture the prisoners

    那你就會發現有時候獄警虐待犯人的方法

  • is to get them to dig a hole

    就是叫他們去挖地洞。

  • and when the prisoner is finished, they ask him to fill the hole back up and then dig again.

    當犯人挖完以後,獄警們就會讓他把洞給補滿然後再重挖。

  • There's something about this cyclical version

    在這個週期性

  • of doing something over and over and over

    一而再地重復做某一件事的行為之中

  • that seems to be particularly demotivating.

    彷彿有些什麼東西是特別讓人消極的。

  • So in the second condition of this experiment, that's exactly what we did.

    所以我們就在第二個情形的實驗當中這麼做。

  • We asked people, "Would you like to build one Bionicle for three dollars?"

    我們問實驗對象,「你想不想堆出一個價值為 $3.00 的 "生化戰士"?」

  • And if they said yes, they built it.

    如果他們說好,那他們就會去堆一個出來。

  • Then we asked them, "Do you want to build another one for $2.70?"

    之後我們再問他們,「你想不想為$2.70再造一個? 」

  • And if they said yes, we gave them a new one,

    如果他們說好,那我們就會給他們一個新的 "生化戰士"。

  • and as they were building it,

    在他們在堆的時後,

  • we took apart the one that they just finished.

    我們就會把他們前一個成品給拆了。

  • And when they finished that,

    然後當他們完成後,

  • we said, "Would you like to build another one, this time for 30 cents less?"

    我們又會說,「你願不願意再造一個? 這次會比上一個少 $0.30」

  • And if they said yes, we gave them the one that they built and we broke.

    如果他們又說好,我們就會把之前拆掉的給他們。

  • So this was an endless cycle

    所以,這就是個永無止境的循環,

  • of them building and us destroying in front of their eyes.

    他們不停地堆而我們則是不停地當著他們的面拆。

  • Now what happens when you compare these two conditions?

    如果你拿這兩種情形來比較,會發生什麼狀況呢?

  • The first thing that happened

    第一件發生的事就是

  • was that people built many more Bionicles -- they built 11 versus seven --

    一組人堆出較多的 "生化戰士" -- 數量為 11 比 7

  • in the meaningful condition versus the Sisyphus condition.

    這是有意義狀況和西西弗斯相較之下的比值。

  • And by the way, we should point out that this was not a big meaning.

    我們應該順便提一下,這結果的意義其實並不大。

  • People were not curing cancer or building bridges.

    他們並不是在治療癌症,也不是在建橋梁。

  • People were building Bionicles for a few cents.

    他們只是在為了幾毛錢去堆 "生化戰士"罷了。

  • And not only that, everybody knew that the Bionicles would be destroyed quite soon.

    不僅如此,大家都知道堆出來的 "生化戰士" 很快就會被拆掉。

  • So there was not a real opportunity for big meaning.

    所以從頭到尾也沒所謂的重大意義。

  • But even the small meaning made a difference.

    但即便是意義小,也有影響力。

  • Now we had another version of this experiment.

    現在我們有另一個實驗版本。

  • In this other version of the experiment,

    在這個版本中,

  • we didn't put people in this situation,

    沒有人參與這個情況,

  • we just described to them the situation, much as I am describing to you now,

    我們只跟他們講述,就像我跟你們描述一樣。

  • and we asked them to predict what the result would be.

    然後我們請他們預測結果。

  • What happened?

    發生什麼事了呢?

  • People predicted the right direction but not the right magnitude.

    大家的預測大致上都是對的,但數值上卻有所出入。

  • People who were just given the description of the experiment

    那些只聽過描述的實驗對象

  • said that in the meaningful condition people would probably build one more Bionicle.

    表示他們大概會在有意義的情況下多堆一個 "生化戰士" 出來。

  • So people understand that meaning is important,

    所以說,大家都了解意義很重要,

  • they just don't understand the magnitude of the importance,

    但他們只是不了解它有"多"重要,

  • the extent to which it's important.

    是何種程度上的重要。

  • There was one other piece of data we looked at.

    我們還可以參考另一個數據。

  • If you think about it, there are some people who love Legos and some people who don't.

    你想一下就會發現有的人很喜歡樂高,也有的人不喜歡。

  • And you would speculate that the people who love Legos

    你應該可以推測出來,喜歡樂高的人

  • will build more Legos, even for less money,

    即使錢比較少,他們還是會去堆多些樂高

  • because after all, they get more internal joy from it.

    因為他們畢竟會從中得到更多的喜悅。

  • And the people who love Legos less will build less Legos

    相對的,那些比較不喜歡樂高的人會堆較少的樂高

  • because the enjoyment that they derive from it is lower.

    因為他們從中得到的喜悅較少。

  • And that's actually what we found in the meaningful condition.

    其實就是我們在有意義的狀況中得到的結果。

  • There was a very nice correlation between love of Lego

    對樂高的喜愛度和成品的數量

  • and the amount of Legos people built.

    成正比。

  • What happened in the Sisyphic condition?

    那西西弗斯狀況下出現了什麼情形呢?

  • In that condition the correlation was zero.

    在這個情況中,相關性為零。

  • There was no relationship between the love of Lego and how much people built,

    對樂高的喜愛和成品的數量是毫無關係的

  • which suggests to me that with this manipulation

    並告訴我,在人們面前

  • of breaking things in front of people's eyes,

    摧毀東西的這個手段,

  • we basically crushed any joy that they could get out of this activity.

    基本上我們是在粉碎他們從中得到的任何喜悅。

  • We basically eliminated it.

    我們根本就是把它給毀滅了。

  • Soon after I finished running this experiment,

    這實驗一結束,

  • I went to talk to a big software company in Seattle.

    我去跟一家在西雅圖的大軟體公司。

  • I can't tell you who they were, but they were a big company in Seattle.

    我不能跟你說他們是誰,但是他們在西雅圖是一家大公司。

  • And this was a group within this software company that was put in a different building.

    在這個軟體公司的這組人被安置在另一個大廈。

  • And they asked them to innovate and create the next big product for this company.

    為了創造出下一個創新的當紅產品。

  • And the week before I showed up,

    在我出現的前一週,

  • the CEO of this big software company went to that group, 200 engineers,

    這公司的執行長當著這一組,200位工程師的面

  • and canceled the project.

    取消了他們的項目。

  • And I stood there in front of 200 of the most depressed people I've ever talked to.

    我站在這群我這輩子交談過最沮喪的200個人面前。

  • And I described to them some of these Lego experiments,

    開始跟他們描述這些樂高實驗,

  • and they said they felt like they had just been through that experiment.

    他們說,他們彷彿身歷其境。

  • And I asked them, I said,

    我問他們,

  • "How many of you now show up to work later than you used to?"

    「有多少人現在比以前晚到公司的?」

  • And everybody raised their hand.

    大家都舉手。

  • I said, "How many of you now go home earlier than you used to?"

    我又問:「又有多少人是比往常更早回家的?」

  • And everybody raised their hand.

    大家又舉起了手。

  • I asked them, "How many of you now add not-so-kosher things to your expense reports?"

    我再問他們:「你們現在有多少個人在開銷報告中加入了不太適當的事物?」

  • And they didn't really raise their hands,

    他們沒有舉手,

  • but they took me out to dinner and showed me what they could do with expense reports.

    但在他們帶我去晚餐的時候,實際展現了他們花公帳的能力。

  • And then I asked them, I said,

    於是我問他們:

  • "What could the CEO have done to make you not as depressed?"

    「你們的執行長該如何做才能讓你們減低沮喪呢?」

  • And they came up with all kinds of ideas.

    他們想出一堆點子。

  • They said the CEO could have asked them to present to the whole company

    他們說,執行長可以讓他們向整個公司報告

  • about their journey over the last two years and what they decided to do.

    他們這兩年來的歷程以及想要執行的計劃。

  • He could have asked them to think about which aspect of their technology

    或是請他們想一想他們的技術上哪一方面

  • could fit with other parts of the organization.

    可以跟公司其他的部門融合在一起。

  • He could have asked them to build some prototypes, some next-generation prototypes,

    他可以請他們製造一些原型,一些新一代的原型

  • and seen how they would work.

    並測試它們。

  • But the thing is that any one of those

    但以上任何一項提議都

  • would require some effort and motivation.

    需要些許的努力與動機。

  • And I think the CEO basically did not understand the importance of meaning.

    我覺得執行長基本上不懂"意義"的重要性。

  • If the CEO, just like our participants,

    如果這執行長像我們的實驗對象一樣,

  • thought the essence of meaning is unimportant,

    覺得意義的本質是不重要的,

  • then he [wouldn't] care.

    那他就不會在乎。

  • And he would tell them, "At the moment I directed you in this way,

    而且他就會告訴他們,「那時候,我叫你們去東,

  • and now that I am directing you in this way,

    現在我叫你們去西,

  • everything will be okay."

    一切都會沒問題的。」

  • But if you understood how important meaning is,

    但如果你明白"意義"的重要性,

  • then you would figure out that it's actually important

    你應該知道花一些時間精力

  • to spend some time, energy and effort

    努力讓人們關心自己所做的事

  • in getting people to care more about what they're doing.

    是很重要的。

  • The next experiment was slightly different.

    下一個實驗有點不同。

  • We took a sheet of paper with random letters,

    我們拿了一張紙,上面隨意的寫上了一些字母,

  • and we asked people to find pairs of letters that were identical next to each other.

    我們請實驗對象在紙上找出和相鄰相同的字母組。

  • That was the task.

    這個就是他們的課題。(文書處理)

  • And people did the first sheet.

    然後他們把第一張做完。

  • And then we asked them if they wanted to do the next sheet for a little bit less money

    我們問他們願不願以較低的工資再做一張

  • and the next sheet for a little bit less money, and so on and so forth.

    下一張的錢又少了些,以此類推。

  • And we had three conditions.

    我們有三種情況。

  • In the first condition, people wrote their name on the sheet,

    在第一種情況,實驗對象把他們的名字寫在紙上,

  • found all the pairs of letters, gave it to the experimenter.

    等找到所有的字母組後,把紙交給研究人員。

  • The experimenter would look at it, scan it from top to bottom,

    研究人員會把那張紙重頭看到尾,

  • say "uh huh" and put it on the pile next to them.

    說聲「對」 然後把它放在旁邊的紙堆上。

  • In the second condition, people did not write their name on it.

    第二種情況,實驗對象不用把名字寫在紙上。

  • The experimenter looked at it,

    研究人員看了它一眼

  • took the sheet of paper, did not look at it, did not scan it,

    就把紙給拿走了,連讀也不讀

  • and simply put it on the pile of pages.

    直接把它放在紙堆上。

  • So you take a piece, you just put it on the side.

    也就是說,你拿了一張,然後就將它放在一旁。

  • And in the third condition,

    然後,第三種狀況,

  • the experimenter got the sheet of paper and directly put it into a shredder.

    研究人員拿到紙後,直接把它放入碎紙機中。

  • What happened in those three conditions?

    這三種情況會造成什麼結果呢?

  • In this plot I'm showing you at what pay rate people stopped.

    現在我給你看的圖表是告訴你人們是在什麼支付費率停止的。

  • So low numbers mean that people worked harder. They worked for much longer.

    也就是說,數字越低表示人們較努力,也做得較久。

  • In the acknowledged condition, people worked all the way down to 15 cents.

    在受到肯定的條件下,人們願意一直做到 $0.15 元。

  • At 15 cents per page, they basically stopped these efforts.

    當工資為每張 $0.15 時,基本上,他們就不再做了。

  • In the shredder condition, it was twice as much -- 30 cents per sheet.

    碎紙機的情況中,工資為前者整整高出兩倍之多 -- 每張 $0.30

  • And this is basically the result we had before.

    基本上和我們之前所得到的結果一樣。

  • You shred people's efforts, output,

    你撕碎了他人的努力和成果,

  • you get them not to be as happy with what they're doing.

    你讓他們對自己所做得事感到不是那麼開心。

  • But I should point out, by the way,

    但同時,我應該指出,

  • that in the shredder condition, people could have cheated.

    在碎紙機的情況下,人們也許會作弊。

  • They could have done not so good work,

    他們可以不把事情做好,

  • because they realized that people were just shredding it.

    因為他們意識到之後人們也只會把它給撕碎。

  • So maybe the first sheet you would do good work,

    因此,你第一張紙可能會做得不錯,

  • but then you see nobody is really testing it,

    但當你看到沒有人會用心去撿查它,

  • so you would do more and more and more.

    那你就會做多點,多點,再多點。

  • So in fact, in the shredder condition,

    所以事實上,在碎紙機的情形下,

  • people could have submitted more work and gotten more money

    人們可以遞交更多的成品並取得更多的錢

  • and put less effort into it.

    也較不用心工作。

  • But what about the ignored condition?

    那採取不理不睬的情況又是如何的呢?

  • Would the ignored condition be more like the acknowledged or more like the shredder,

    這情況中會不會跟受肯定的情形較類似還是跟碎紙機的情形較類似,

  • or somewhere in the middle?

    還是介於兩者之間?

  • It turns out it was almost like the shredder.

    結果顯示這個情形跟碎紙機十分相似。

  • Now there's good news and bad news here.

    現在有一個好消息和一個壞消息。

  • The bad news is that ignoring the performance of people

    壞消息是,忽略他人的表現

  • is almost as bad as shredding their effort in front of their eyes.

    就有如在他人的眼前把他們的努力撕碎一樣的差。

  • Ignoring gets you a whole way out there.

    忽略會讓你感到如此惡劣。

  • The good news is that by simply looking at something that somebody has done,

    好消息就是,只要把他人的成果簡單的看一下,

  • scanning it and saying "uh huh,"

    略看一下並說聲"對",

  • that seems to be quite sufficient

    這似乎就已經足夠

  • to dramatically improve people's motivations.

    大大提昇人們的動機。

  • So the good news is that adding motivation doesn't seem to be so difficult.

    所以說,好消息就是要增加動機其實一點也不難。