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  • Sir David Attenborough: Today is my 89th birthday,

  • and to my very considerable surprise I find myself in

  • the place that I've never been to before and which it

  • is a great, great privilege to visit.

  • The White House, with the President of the United States.

  • The Oval Office is surely one of the most famous rooms

  • in the whole world, where history has been enacted.

  • The home of arguably the most powerful man in the world.

  • So to go to it is a huge privilege, and perhaps a

  • rather daunting one at that.

  • All I can say here was that it was not made to seem

  • daunting, and the President of the United States spoke

  • to me in as friendly a tone as I could possibly imagine.

  • Friendly and hospitable and genuine.

  • It was an extraordinary experience which I shall

  • never forget.

  • The President: Well, Sir David Attenborough, thank

  • you so much for being here.

  • As I was telling you on our walk over, I had been a huge

  • admirer of your work for a very long time.

  • I have to say, though, that when I heard that you had

  • gone down, you had dove into the Great Barrier Reef again

  • -- 60 years after the first time you did it?

  • Sir David Attenborough: Yes.

  • The President: That impressed me.

  • Sir David Attenborough: But I was in the -- in a sub.

  • I mean, I was in a very, very remarkable research sub.

  • And we went down to over 300 meters.

  • The President: Oh, so you were (inaudible).

  • Sir David Attenborough: And that was just mind-blowing,

  • of course.

  • The President: Absolutely.

  • I -- tell me how the Great Barrier Reef looked to you

  • today compared to the first time that you went there,

  • and what's your -- what story does that tell us

  • about how we're doing in conserving these

  • incredible treasures?

  • Sir David Attenborough: Well, of course, the whole

  • population of Australia has increased a very great deal.

  • So the population up the east coast of Queensland has

  • grown, and so has industry.

  • And wherever there are human beings, wherever there's

  • industry, there are consequences.

  • And the consequences on the coast are likely to be not

  • too good for the reef, though -- which is quite true.

  • And the Australians are addressing that.

  • The real problem on the Reef is the global one, which is

  • what is happening with the increase in acidification

  • and the rise in the ocean temperature.

  • And the Australians have done research on coral now,

  • and they know for sure that if they go up beyond a

  • degree or a degree and a half, and so on, it will

  • kill coral, will kill the species of coral.

  • And what they're concerned about now is -- I mean, that

  • seems almost inevitable -- what it seems now is, can

  • they -- can they find the right species to maintain

  • the Reef's population?

  • The President: Right.

  • So really there's a mitigation strategy that

  • they're trying to come up with.

  • But what we're seeing is global trends that depend on

  • the entire world working together.

  • Sir David Attenborough: Yes.

  • The President: And, sadly, it seems as if we haven't

  • made as much progress as we need to on climate change now.

  • Given the work that you've done, though, the good news

  • is that there are some areas where we have made progress.

  • We've been able to -- here in the United States, for

  • example, with the Clean Air, Clean Water Act to clean up

  • areas that 20, 30, 40 years ago seemed like they'd

  • never recover.

  • And once we took some sensible steps, it turns out

  • that nature was fairly resilient.

  • But it required us being fairly intentional and

  • really go after the problem in a serious way.

  • Sir David Attenborough: It certainly -- the resilience

  • of the natural world is -- gives you great hope, really.

  • If you give nature half a chance, it really takes it

  • and works with it.

  • But we are throwing huge problems at it.

  • The President: Right.

  • Sir David Attenborough: And the rising in temperature,

  • in global temperature is a very, very serious worry

  • indeed, it seems to me.

  • And what concerns me is, when we're sitting in

  • Europe, we see what you did by saying, "We're going to

  • put a man on the moon in 10 years."

  • Supposing you said, "In 10 years, the United States

  • will organize -- and the world -- and energize the

  • world to find a solution, to find a way of producing

  • energy with no problems."

  • That is to say, exploiting the sunshine to a degree,

  • and finding ways of storing electricity, because if you

  • did that, so much -- problems would be solved.

  • The President: Well, that's what we're -- that's what

  • we're going to be shooting for.

  • I mean, we've made enormous investments.

  • We doubled our investment in clean energy here in the

  • United States; I just last year came back from China

  • with an agreement from the Chinese to work with us on

  • reducing emissions.

  • But we're not moving as fast as we need to.

  • And the -- part of what I know from watching your

  • programs and all the great work you've done is that,

  • you know, these ecosystems are all interconnected, and

  • that if just one country is doing the right thing but

  • other countries are not, then we're not going to

  • solve the problem.

  • We're going to have to have a global solution to this.

  • Sir David Attenborough: And the -- and the solutions are

  • global; have to be global.

  • And that has been the huge encouragement over the past

  • 10 years, that the United States and indeed China --

  • two vast, important nations -- have actually agreed to

  • take these steps.

  • That's surely what will go down in history

  • as EPOL-making.

  • But it's -- but the job is not yet done.

  • The President: No, we're far from it.

  • Not -- but let me -- let me backtrack for a second.

  • How did you get interested in nature and wanting to

  • record it?

  • When you think back after the story of your career,

  • what is it that led to such a deep fascination with how

  • the natural world works?

  • Sir David Attenborough: Well, I've never met a child --

  • The President: Who's not fascinated?

  • Sir David Attenborough: -- who's not interested in

  • natural history.

  • So the -- I mean, the -- just the simplest thing; a

  • five-year-old turning over a stone and seeing a slug and

  • says, "What a treasure!

  • How does it live?

  • What are those things on the front?"

  • Kids love it, kids understand the natural

  • world, and they're fascinated by it.

  • The President: So you (inaudible).

  • Sir David Attenborough: So the question is, how did

  • you lose it?

  • How did anyone lose the fascination?

  • The President: (laughs) yeah.

  • Sir David Attenborough: And certainly I never lost it --

  • The President: Yeah.

  • Sir David Attenborough: -- but if you do lose it, and I

  • imagine there are lots of other attractions that can

  • -- may divert your attention, you've lost a

  • very, very great treasure.

  • The President: They -- at what point did you decide

  • that you wanted to make it your life's work to record it?

  • Sir David Attenborough: I don't think I ever dared say

  • it was a night's work, because when I -- when I

  • started, there wasn't any television.

  • And all I knew is, I wanted to try and understand the

  • way the world works, the natural world works; it was

  • a great fascination.

  • And so I took Zoology and Natural Sciences

  • at university.

  • But then I had to go into the navy; it was the end of

  • the war and I was conscripted into the navy

  • for a couple of years.

  • And then I got -- when I came out, I didn't think I

  • was cut out to be a proper scientist.

  • (laughs) but anyway, I went into television managed to

  • -- I was going to say, manipulate television to

  • allow me to go and see these wonderful things, which is

  • what I've been doing ever since, pretty well.

  • The President: When you think of your favorite trips

  • or your favorite discoveries, or places in

  • the world that you wish you could take everybody to so

  • that they could really appreciate what this

  • marvelous gift we've got is, what comes to mind?

  • Sir David Attenborough: Well, I think you would

  • agree with me that the moment you first dive on a

  • -- on a coral reef, with tanks so that you are

  • weightless, that being weightless is enough to make

  • a memorable event for you.

  • But when you can do it on a reef, with this multitude of

  • multicolored organisms, the like of which you've never

  • seen before, and you can just -- with a flick of your

  • fin, you can go down or you can go up, and then you can

  • see these great sharks and things coming in from the

  • ocean -- that, surely, has to be one of the

  • great sensations.

  • It's a new world.

  • The President: Well, the -- you know, going up in Hawaii

  • -- it was one of the things that taught me not only to

  • appreciate nature but also that you had to care for it.

  • And because we spend so much time outside -- and I think

  • there was part of the native Hawaiian culture that is

  • true of many native cultures -- this sense of needing to

  • care for the environment that you're in, that

  • sometimes we lose when we live in big cities.

  • The interesting thing is, though, my daughters -- I

  • find Malia and Sasha, whose -- they're 16 and 13 now.

  • They're much more environmentally aware this

  • generation than I think some previous generation.

  • They do not dispute, for example, the science around

  • climate change.

  • They think it's self-apparent that we've got

  • a problem and that we should be doing something about it.

  • Sir David Attenborough: Yeah.

  • Yeah.

  • I absolutely agree.

  • Some of the letters I get -- they bring tears to the eyes

  • --from kids of all ages.

  • And the young people -- they care, they know that this is

  • the world that they're going to grow up in, they're going

  • to spend the rest of their lives in.

  • But I think it's -- I think it's more idealistic than that.

  • They actually believe that humanity -- human species --

  • has no right to destroy and despoil, regardless.

  • The President: Right.

  • Sir David Attenborough: They actually feel that

  • very powerfully.

  • The President: They do.

  • Yeah.

  • What -- when you think about four years from now, what

  • are the - what are the prospects for this blue

  • marble that we live on in the middle of space.

  • Do you get that we're going to be able to get ahead of

  • these problems?

  • Do you think that -- you know, with the prospects of

  • climate change, rising populations -- that it's

  • realistic for us to be able to get a handle on these

  • issues and reverse some of the problems?

  • Or are you more pessimistic?

  • Sir David Attenborough: I believe that, if we find

  • ways of generating and storing power from renewable

  • resources, we will make the problem with oil and coal

  • and other carbon problems disappear.

  • Because, economically, we will (inaudible) to use

  • these other methods.

  • And if we do that, a huge step will have been taken

  • towards solving the problems of the earth.

  • The President: Well, I think you're right about that,

  • that there's got to be an economic component to this.

  • I -- you know, my father was from Kenya.

  • And I still remember the first time I went to Masai

  • Mara, and the Serengeti and saw the Great Migration.

  • And it's like going back into the Garden of Eden when

  • you see the wildebeest and zebras, and

  • you're transported.

  • But I remember talking to the rangers out there and,

  • you know, they're dealing with issues of poaching and

  • other problems.

  • But the principle problem, initially, that they had was

  • that the populations around the parks didn't feel any

  • economic incentive to help preserve it.

  • And when the National Parks started to work with the

  • local farmers and saying to them, "There's ways for you

  • to do well while still conserving this great

  • treasure that we have," that's when you

  • got cooperation.

  • And I think, all too often, we pose this as an economic

  • development versus environment problem rather

  • than recognizing that there's a way of marrying

  • those two concerns.

  • Sir David Attenborough: That indeed is the case, but the

  • trouble is that, as fast as you find solutions along

  • those lines, the problem grows bigger --

  • The President: Yeah.

  • Sir David Attenborough: -- because of the increasing

  • population in Kenya.

  • It is very, very considerable.

  • And it's very difficult if you're growing a family and

  • you want to grow your own food and so on, and you can

  • see all that space occupied by elephants or whatever.

  • Say, "What about us?"

  • The President: Right.

  • Exactly.

  • And that's --

  • Sir David Attenborough: And population's growth is one

  • of the huge problems.

  • The President: Yeah.

  • Well, the -- which is why we're spending a lot of

  • time, including working with my wife around the issues of

  • girls' education.

  • Turns out that when young women are getting proper

  • schooling and see opportunity, they're less

  • likely to have children early.

  • Smaller families, population stabilizes, and so it

  • actually ends up helping not only those young women to

  • succeed and look after their children, but it also helps

  • the --

  • Sir David Attenborough: (inaudible)

  • The President: Yeah, yeah, the environment (inaudible).

  • Sir David Attenborough: So this -- so you have to have

  • a literate, informed population with medical

  • understanding of what the problems are and

  • what's available.

  • And then the population -- the birth rate falls.

  • It's not the end of the story, but its falling is a

  • start for this solution.

  • The President: Right.

  • The internet's been a powerful tool, though, for

  • this generation, I think, to become aware of all the

  • wonders of the world.

  • You know, when you were starting off, maybe you'd

  • get a program on, once every so often.

  • Now on your telephone you can see, you know, glaciers

  • and the Amazon and --

  • Sir David Attenborough: Well, it is an extraordinary

  • paradox, isn't it?

  • That the United Nations tells us that over 50

  • percent of the human population on the planet are

  • urbanized, which means that, to some degree, they are cut

  • off from the natural world.

  • The President: Right.

  • Sir David Attenborough: And are, for some people, are

  • totally cut off.

  • They don't see a wild creature from dawn until

  • dusk, unless it's a rat or a pigeon.

  • The President: Right.

  • Sir David Attenborough: And yet at the same time mass

  • media can get -- inform those people what the

  • natural world is, and if -- unless they don't understand

  • -- if they don't understand about the workings of the

  • natural world, they won't take the trouble to protect it.

  • That's one of the roles that the media should have of

  • maintaining a link between the population and the --

  • and understanding what goes on in the natural world.

  • Because why should they give up money on taxes, come to

  • that, to protect the natural world, unless they actually

  • care about it?

  • The President: Right.

  • The -- have you had a chance to travel much in the --

  • through our National Parks in the United States?

  • You know, one of my predecessors, Teddy

  • Roosevelt, started the National Parks and what a

  • legacy that's been.

  • Sir David Attenborough: Yeah.

  • I mean -- United States was the model for the world, in

  • Yosemite and so on, and the founding of those great

  • National Parks.

  • Yes indeed have I traveled there, and boy, what a

  • wonderful time one has there.

  • And great lodges and great tracks, and the space!

  • Still, it doesn't matter how -- all these visitors come

  • and yet you can still be alone up there in the Yukon

  • or wherever.

  • The President: It's one of the great, I think, secrets

  • of the United States; it is how big it is, and there are

  • big chunks of it that are still undisturbed.

  • And when you fly over the country, you're reminded

  • about what a blessing it is.

  • There aren't many places with such low density, where

  • you can just walk for miles.

  • Sir David Attenborough: Well, to have in your own

  • country the Okefenokee Swamp down there and the Glasses

  • of Alaska up there, and the Yosemite and the Rockies

  • over there -- oh, gosh.

  • The President: Yeah, well, that's part of the reason

  • why what we've been doing is trying to initiate ways to

  • get more children and young people to use the parks.

  • And, as you said, so many of these kids are growing up

  • cut off.

  • They're sitting on the couch, they're playing

  • video games.

  • If they experience nature, it's through a

  • television screen.

  • And just getting them out there so that they're

  • picking up that rock and finding that slug.

  • They're seeing that bird with colors that --

  • Sir David Attenborough: And they all need a bit

  • of self-reliance.

  • I mean, it's very, very difficult, if you've never

  • been outside, to find yourself in a forest.

  • I mean, I've been humiliated enough in the Amazon forest

  • and losing myself in that.

  • I mean, and you really do feel an idiot.

  • The local people, tribes people, look at you, and you

  • think, "You're lost!

  • Where were you brought up?"

  • (laughs) the answer's not in the forest.

  • The President: Yeah.

  • Sir David Attenborough: But kids can learn, and they

  • love it when they do.

  • The President: And if you were to think about how we

  • could raise awareness, because you've been a great

  • educator as well as a great naturalist, how do you --

  • how do you think we can reach the public around

  • these issues?

  • Not only to make them aware of the dangers of an issue

  • like climate change, but also to feel a sense of

  • agency and capacity to change it?

  • Another way of asking this is, maybe, what do you think

  • are some of the most stubborn misconceptions

  • about nature that lead us not always to get out in

  • front of these problems?

  • Sir David Attenborough: I think only unfamiliarity.

  • And I don't see how you can hope to take somebody else

  • to spend the first 16 years of his life surrounded by

  • bricks and mortar, and then suddenly put him in the

  • middle of the rainforest and expect him to find his way

  • or know how to live, or indeed how to survive and

  • find food.

  • So I'm not sure that that is absolutely necessary anyway.

  • I think what is required is an understanding and a gut

  • feeling that you understand that the natural world is

  • part of your inheritance.

  • It is -- this is the planet on which we live; it's the

  • only one we've got.

  • And we've got to protect it.

  • And people do feel that deeply and instinctively,

  • and it is after all -- the natural world is where you

  • go in moments of celebration and moments of grief.

  • It is the greatest prop and stay to humanity's own

  • feeling for himself, itself, herself, ourselves.

  • The President: Well, you know, if you think about,

  • you know -- in all the world's religions, you know,

  • when you're seeking wisdom, you're seeking to hear God,

  • you're in the desert or you go to great waters or you go

  • up to great mountain peaks.

  • You know, recapturing that sense of wonder and the

  • amazement of the natural world and its powers.

  • You know, that's what speaks to what's deepest in us.

  • And, you know, the -- what's critically important to

  • making sure that we're passing that onto future

  • generations -- you and I, we've been blessed to be

  • able to see it and experience it and be moved

  • by it.

  • And I want to make sure that my daughters and their

  • children are experiencing that same thing.

Sir David Attenborough: Today is my 89th birthday,

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