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One of the most common ways of dividing the world
譯者: Sandy Li 審譯者: Shelley Krishna R. TSANG
is into those who believe
區分世人,其中一種最常見的做法
and those who don't --
是把他們分成「信者」
into the religious and the atheists.
與「不信者」──
And for the last decade or so,
即「有神論者」和「無神論者」
it's been quite clear
近十年來
what being an atheist means.
何謂「無神論者」
There have been some very vocal atheists
一直相當清晰
who've pointed out,
好些無神論者
not just that religion is wrong,
直言不諱
but that it's ridiculous.
說宗教不僅是錯的
These people, many of whom have lived in North Oxford,
而且還是荒謬的
have argued --
這些無神論者,當中有許多居於牛津北部
they've argued that believing in God
他們主張
is akin to believing in fairies
他們認為,相信上帝存在
and essentially that the whole thing
無異於相信童話內的仙女存在
is a childish game.
究其本質
Now I think it's too easy.
宗教是幼稚的
I think it's too easy
但我認為這說法太淺薄
to dismiss the whole of religion that way.
這樣完全否定宗教
And it's as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.
過於輕易
And what I'd like to inaugurate today
輕易如甕中捉鱉
is a new way of being an atheist --
今日,我想說的是
if you like, a new version of atheism
無神論者不必如此
we could call Atheism 2.0.
可以說,這是一種嶄新的無神論
Now what is Atheism 2.0?
我們可稱之為「無神論 2.0」
Well it starts from a very basic premise:
何謂「無神論 2.0」?
of course, there's no God.
我們先從最基本的前提說起
Of course, there are no deities or supernatural spirits
是的,世間沒有上帝
or angels, etc.
而且也沒有甚麼聖靈,或超自然的神明
Now let's move on; that's not the end of the story,
也沒有天使之類的東西
that's the very, very beginning.
這不是結論,而是起點
I'm interested in the kind of constituency
我們繼續說下去
that thinks something along these lines:
我對某些人的想法很感興趣
that thinks, "I can't believe in any of this stuff.
他們會想
I can't believe in the doctrines.
「我不相信這些東西」
I don't think these doctrines are right.
「我不接受那些教條」
But," a very important but, "I love Christmas carols.
「我不認為這些教條是對的」
I really like the art of Mantegna.
「可是」這個心理轉折很重要,「我喜歡聖誕歌」
I really like looking at old churches.
「我很喜歡蒙特納的畫作」
I really like turning the pages of the Old Testament."
「我欣賞古老的教堂」
Whatever it may be,
「我很喜歡翻閱舊約聖經」
you know the kind of thing I'm talking about --
諸如此類
people who are attracted to the ritualistic side,
你懂的
the moralistic, communal side of religion,
有些人會被宗教的某部份吸引,比如是儀式
but can't bear the doctrine.
宗教中的倫理,或是裡面普世共享的東西
Until now, these people have faced a rather unpleasant choice.
但受不了那些教條
It's almost as though either you accept the doctrine
直到目前為止,他們總是陷入兩難
and then you can have all the nice stuff,
要麼,你得一併擁護宗教教條
or you reject the doctrine and
才能享有宗教美好的部份
you're living in some kind of spiritual wasteland
要麼,你在否定宗教教條的同時
under the guidance of CNN and Walmart.
便讓自己置身空茫的精神世界裡
So that's a sort of tough choice.
讓CNN和沃爾瑪作你的精神領袖
I don't think we have to make that choice.
二擇其一,真是個困難的選擇
I think there is an alternative.
但我不認為我們一定要非此即彼
I think there are ways --
其實還有另一個可能性
and I'm being both very respectful and completely impious --
我想我們可以
of stealing from religions.
在非常尊重,但並不崇拜宗教的前提下
If you don't believe in a religion,
從中偷師
there's nothing wrong with picking and mixing,
如果你不相信宗教
with taking out the best sides of religion.
大可萃取並融和宗教裡美好的事物
And for me, atheism 2.0
去蕪存菁
is about both, as I say,
在我而言,無神論2.0
a respectful and an impious way
正正是,如我所言
of going through religions and saying, "What here could we use?"
在尊重但不崇拜宗教的前提下
The secular world is full of holes.
檢視宗教的內容,並思考「這裡面有甚麼值得借鏡的?」
We have secularized badly, I would argue.
去宗教化的現世是千瘡百孔的
And a thorough study of religion
我認為,這個社會的去宗教化,做得並不高明
could give us all sorts of insights
透徹地考究宗教
into areas of life that are not going too well.
能讓人生活各方面
And I'd like to run through a few of these today.
獲得不同的啟發
I'd like to kick off by looking at education.
今天我會挑其中幾樣來說
Now education is a field
首先,我們來看看教育
the secular world really believes in.
今時今日
When we think about how we're going to make the world a better place,
我們對教育抱有莫大信心
we think education; that's where we put a lot of money.
我們相信它能使世界更好
Education is going to give us, not only commercial skills, industrial skills,
於是我們向教育投入龐大資金
it's also going to make us better people.
教育所能作的,不只是授與各項職業技能
You know the kind of thing a commencement address is, and graduation ceremonies,
它還會導人向善
those lyrical claims
在開學演辭中,或畢業典禮上
that education, the process of education -- particularly higher education --
常有這種堂皇動人的說法
will make us into nobler and better human beings.
指教育,尤其是高等教育
That's a lovely idea.
使人變得更好更高尚
Interesting where it came from.
很美好的構想
In the early 19th century,
值得探究的是,這構思的來源
church attendance in Western Europe
十九世紀初
started sliding down very, very sharply, and people panicked.
在西歐,上教會的人
They asked themselves the following question.
愈來愈少,流失得很快,大家開始不安
They said, where are people going to find the morality,
大家想知道
where are they going to find guidance,
從此,人們該從何學習倫理
and where are they going to find sources of consolation?
從何得到指引
And influential voices came up with one answer.
從何得到慰藉?
They said culture.
後來,有人認為答案是
It's to culture that we should look
「文化」
for guidance, for consolation, for morality.
我們會從文化獲得
Let's look to the plays of Shakespeare,
指引、慰藉、和倫理
the dialogues of Plato, the novels of Jane Austen.
在莎士比亞的歌劇
In there, we'll find a lot of the truths
柏拉圖《對話錄》和奧斯汀的小說裡
that we might previously have found in the Gospel of Saint John.
我們可以找到許多真理
Now I think that's a very beautiful idea and a very true idea.
許多我們曾經在約翰福音裡找到的真理
They wanted to replace scripture with culture.
從文化中學習真理,我認為是很美好,而且切實的構思
And that's a very plausible idea.
以文化取代宗教
It's also an idea that we have forgotten.
非常可行
If you went to a top university --
但我們早已把這想法拋諸腦後
let's say you went to Harvard or Oxford or Cambridge --
如果你就讀某頂尖大學
and you said, "I've come here
比方說,哈佛、牛津或劍橋
because I'm in search of morality, guidance and consolation;
你說:「我來到這兒」
I want to know how to live,"
「是為了追尋倫理、指引和慰藉」
they would show you the way to the insane asylum.
「我想知道如果好好生活」
This is simply not what our grandest and best institutes of higher learning
旁人會送你進精神病院
are in the business of.
這些尊貴的高等學府
Why? They don't think we need it.
並非為幫人追尋真理而設的
They don't think we are in an urgent need of assistance.
為甚麼?他們認定我們不需要幫助
They see us as adults, rational adults.
我們沒這逼切需要
What we need is information.
我們被視為成人,理智的成人
We need data, we don't need help.
我們被認為只需要資訊
Now religions start from a very different place indeed.
我們只需要數據,毋須幫忙
All religions, all major religions,
宗教的觀點則截然不同
at various points call us children.
所有宗教,所有主流宗教
And like children,
總是稱教徒為「孩子」
they believe that we are in severe need of assistance.
像小孩一樣
We're only just holding it together.
急切地需要扶一把
Perhaps this is just me, maybe you.
我們只是勉力維持現狀
But anyway, we're only just holding it together.
也許只有我是這樣想的,也許你也有如此想過
And we need help. Of course, we need help.
我們只是勉力維持現狀
And so we need guidance and we need didactic learning.
我們需要幫忙,當然,我們需要幫助
You know, in the 18th century in the U.K.,
我們需要指引,我們需要教導
the greatest preacher, greatest religious preacher, was a man called John Wesley,
你知道,十八世紀英國
who went up and down this country delivering sermons,
曾有一位非常非常偉大的傳教士,名為約翰.衛斯理
advising people how they could live.
他走入鄉郊佈道
He delivered sermons on the duties of parents to their children
指導人們如果過活
and children to their parents,
他向人宣導,講父母對子女應有之義
the duties of the rich to the poor and the poor to the rich.
講子女對父母有何責任
He was trying to tell people how they should live
講富人與窮人之間的關係
through the medium of sermons,
透過佈道
the classic medium of delivery of religions.
他教人如何生活
Now we've given up with the idea of sermons.
佈道會是傳播宗教的經典形式
If you said to a modern liberal individualist,
但我們已摒棄佈道會
"Hey, how about a sermon?"
如果你告訴一名自由主義者
they'd go, "No, no. I don't need one of those.
「嘿,想去佈道會嗎?」
I'm an independent, individual person."
他會回應道,「不,不用了,我不需要。」
What's the difference between a sermon
「我是一個獨立的個體。」
and our modern, secular mode of delivery, the lecture?
佈道會和現世用以傳播思想的講課
Well a sermon wants to change your life
有何分別?
and a lecture wants to give you a bit of information.
佈道會嘗試改變你的生命
And I think we need to get back to that sermon tradition.
而講課向你提供更多資訊
The tradition of sermonizing is hugely valuable,
我認為我們應該回到佈道會這傳統
because we are in need of guidance,
這是一項富有價值的傳統
morality and consolation --
因為我們的確需要指引
and religions know that.
道德觀,和慰藉
Another point about education:
宗教懂得人們需要甚麼
we tend to believe in the modern secular world
還有一點關於教育
that if you tell someone something once, they'll remember it.
我們傾向相信在無神的現世裡
Sit them in a classroom, tell them about Plato
你只須把事情說一遍,大家便會記得
at the age of 20, send them out for a career in management consultancy for 40 years,
把二十歲的人們留在課室,說說柏拉圖
and that lesson will stick with them.
然後讓他們在顧問公司打拼四十年
Religions go, "Nonsense.
他們仍會牢牢記住柏拉圖的一課
You need to keep repeating the lesson 10 times a day.
宗教會認為這不可能
So get on your knees and repeat it."
你得每天向他們重複十遍才行
That's what all religions tell us:
跪下,然後重複
"Get on you knees and repeat it 10 or 20 or 15 times a day."
這就是宗教要求我們做的
Otherwise our minds are like sieves.
「跪下,每日重複十到二十遍。」
So religions are cultures of repetition.
否則我們會左耳進右耳出
They circle the great truths again and again and again.
換言之,宗教是重複的文化
We associate repetition with boredom.
重要的真理,一而再,再而三地流傳
"Give us the new," we're always saying.
我們會把「重複」和「沈悶」聯想在一起
"The new is better than the old."
我們老是說「給點新意」
If I said to you, "Okay, we're not going to have new TED.
「新的當然比舊的好」
We're just going to run through all the old ones
如果我告訴:「好吧,我們不會再有新的TED
and watch them five times because they're so true.
我們只會重看已有的TED
We're going to watch Elizabeth Gilbert five times
每天看五次,因為它們說得太對了
because what she says is so clever," you'd feel cheated.
我們將會每天重複聽伊利莎白.喬伯五次
Not so if you're adopting a religious mindset.
因為她的演說實在太機智了。」你會感到受騙
The other things that religions do
但用宗教的角度看,事情便不一樣了
is to arrange time.
除了重複,宗教還會
All the major religions give us calendars.
安排時間
What is a calendar?
所有主要宗教都有曆法
A calendar is a way of making sure that across the year
甚麼是曆法?
you will bump into certain very important ideas.
它是要確保我們在一年中
In the Catholic chronology, Catholic calendar,
總有那麼幾天會重溫一些重要的思想
at the end of March you will think about St. Jerome
對天主教徒而言
and his qualities of humility and goodness
每逢三月最後一天,他們會記起聖葉理諾
and his generosity to the poor.
記起他的謙卑和善良
You won't do that by accident; you will do that because you are guided to do that.
還有他對窮人的慷慨
Now we don't think that way.
你不會無緣無故想起他,那是因為曆法提醒了你
In the secular world we think, "If an idea is important, I'll bump into it.
我們現在不這麼想了
I'll just come across it."
無神的世界裡,我們認為「如果這是一個重要的想法,我終究會遇上的
Nonsense, says the religious world view.
終究會遇上的。」
Religious view says we need calendars, we need to structure time,
不可能,宗教如此認為
we need to synchronize encounters.
宗教認為人們需要曆法,人們需要為此安排時間
This comes across also
人們需要同時紀念
in the way in which religions set up rituals
同樣道理
around important feelings.
宗教為各樣情緒
Take the Moon. It's really important to look at the Moon.
設立各項儀式
You know, when you look at the Moon,
比方說月亮。當你看著月亮時
you think, "I'm really small. What are my problems?"
你知道,當你看著它時
It sets things into perspective, etc., etc.
你會想,「我是很渺小的,我的困擾算甚麼?」
We should all look at the Moon a bit more often. We don't.
它使我們用不同觀點看待事物
Why don't we? Well there's nothing to tell us, "Look at the Moon."
我們都應該多點看月亮,但我們沒有
But if you're a Zen Buddhist in the middle of September,
為甚麼不?因為沒有人提醒我們,是時候注視月亮了
you will be ordered out of your home, made to stand on a canonical platform
但如果你是禪宗佛教徒,每年九月中旬
and made to celebrate the festival of Tsukimi,
你會受呼召離開家門,站到神壇上
where you will be given poems to read
慶祝月見節
in honor of the Moon and the passage of time
你會獲發頌詩
and the frailty of life that it should remind us of.
以歌頌月亮,和時間的流浙
You'll be handed rice cakes.
並感悟生命的脆弱
And the Moon and the reflection on the Moon
你會獲發米餅
will have a secure place in your heart.
於是月亮和它的倒影
That's very good.
便印在你心上
The other thing that religions are really aware of
這一切都很好
is: speak well --
此外,宗教還察覺意到
I'm not doing a very good job of this here --
大家該好好說話
but oratory, oratory is absolutely key to religions.
我並不特別擅長說話
In the secular world, you can come through the university system and be a lousy speaker
但演講,演講絕對是宗教活動的核心
and still have a great career.
在去宗教化的現世,即使完成大學,你的演講還是可以很糟糕
But the religious world doesn't think that way.
但還是能找到工作
What you're saying needs to be backed up
但宗教世界不然
by a really convincing way of saying it.
不管你說甚麼
So if you go to an African-American Pentecostalist church
都得讓人信服
in the American South
如果你去美國南部的非裔美藉教堂
and you listen to how they talk,
出席五旬節會
my goodness, they talk well.
聽聽他們如何演講
After every convincing point, people will go, "Amen, amen, amen."
天啊,說得真好
At the end of a really rousing paragraph, they'll all stand up,
說到動人處,會眾會高呼「阿門,阿門,阿門」
and they'll go, "Thank you Jesus, thank you Christ, thank you Savior."
在一段振奮人心的演辭,會眾會全體起立
If we were doing it like they do it --
然後說「感謝耶穌,感謝基督,感謝救主」
let's not do it, but if we were to do it --
現在如果我們照辦煮碗
I would tell you something like, "Culture should replace scripture."
不用真的做,而是,想像我們會這麼做
And you would go, "Amen, amen, amen."
我說的內容,大概會是「文化應該取代宗教」
And at the end of my talk, you would all stand up
你們合該高呼「阿門,阿門,阿門」
and you would go, "Thank you Plato, thank you Shakespeare, thank you Jane Austen."
在我的演說結束後,你們都會起立
And we'd know that we had a real rhythm going.
然後說「感謝柏拉圖,感謝莎翁,感謝珍.奧斯汀」
All right, all right. We're getting there. We're getting there.
我們有默契,知道一來一回的節奏
(Applause)
好了,好了,快到重點了,快到重點了
The other thing that religions know is we're not just brains,
(掌聲)
we are also bodies.
還有一點,宗教知道人們不止有理性的腦袋
And when they teach us a lesson,
我們還有肉身
they do it via the body.
宗教的教義
So for example,
教徒透過身體學習
take the Jewish idea of forgiveness.
舉例說
Jews are very interested in forgiveness
猶太教中「寬恕」的概念
and how we should start anew and start afresh.
猶太人對「寬恕」很上心
They don't just deliver us sermons on this.
認為寬恕之後是嶄新的開始
They don't just give us books or words about this.
他們不止有文字上的教義
They tell us to have a bath.
不止是書本或口述
So in Orthodox Jewish communities, every Friday you go to a Mikveh.
他們會讓你去洗個澡
You immerse yourself in the water,
在信奉正統猶太教的社區,逢星期五,他們會去淨身池
and a physical action backs up a philosophical idea.
把自己沈沒在水中
We don't tend to do that.
用身體行動實踐哲學理念
Our ideas are in one area and our behavior with our bodies is in another.
我們很少這麼做
Religions are fascinating in the way they try and combine the two.
我們所想,與我們所作,並不一致
Let's look at art now.
宗教引人入勝,因為它能把二者合而為一
Now art is something that in the secular world,
現在讓我們來看看藝術
we think very highly of. We think art is really, really important.
藝術在無神的世界裡
A lot of our surplus wealth goes to museums, etc.
評價很高,我們認為它非常非常重要
We sometimes hear it said
許多剩餘財富都進貢到美術館去
that museums are our new cathedrals, or our new churches.
有這麼一個講法
You've heard that saying.
說美術館是新式教堂
Now I think that the potential is there,
你聽過的
but we've completely let ourselves down.
我認為美術館的確有此潛力
And the reason we've let ourselves down
但我們沒把它發揮出來
is that we're not properly studying
其原因在於
how religions handle art.
我們沒有好好研究
The two really bad ideas that are hovering in the modern world
宗教如何看待藝術
that inhibit our capacity to draw strength from art:
現世有兩個很差勁的想法
The first idea is that art should be for art's sake --
讓我們無法好好發揮藝術的力量
a ridiculous idea --
其一,藝術純為藝術而生
an idea that art should live in a hermetic bubble
荒謬
and should not try to do anything with this troubled world.
說藝術應該高深莫測
I couldn't disagree more.
並毋須回應世界的問題
The other thing that we believe is that art shouldn't explain itself,
我不能苟同
that artists shouldn't say what they're up to,
其二,藝術不應該不證自明
because if they said it, it might destroy the spell
藝術家不應該讓人知道他想表達甚麼
and we might find it too easy.
因為,一旦說穿,藝術品就可能失去它的魅力
That's why a very common feeling when you're in a museum --
讓人覺得不過爾爾
let's admit it --
逛美術館時,你常有這種感覺
is, "I don't know what this is about."
承認吧
But if we're serious people, we don't admit to that.
你常想「我不知道它想說的是甚麼」
But that feeling of puzzlement is structural
嚴肅認真的人都不願意承認
to contemporary art.
在當代藝術世界裡,這種困惑是
Now religions have a much saner attitude to art.
人人共享的
They have no trouble telling us what art is about.
宗教在這方面比較清醒
Art is about two things in all the major faiths.
挑明題旨,毫不扭捏
Firstly, it's trying to remind you
在主要宗教的觀念裡,藝術有兩樣功能
of what there is to love.
首先,它要提醒你
And secondly, it's trying to remind you
世上有何該愛
of what there is to fear and to hate.
其二,它要提醒你
And that's what art is.
世上有何該懼該厭
Art is a visceral encounter with the most important ideas of your faith.
藝術便是如此
So as you walk around a church,
藝術讓人以視覺接觸信仰
or a mosque or a cathedral,
在你逛會堂
what you're trying to imbibe, what you're imbibing is,
或清真寺,或大教堂之時
through your eyes, through your senses,
你正透過雙眼
truths that have otherwise come to you through your mind.
逐漸吸收
Essentially it's propaganda.
平時在學習的教義
Rembrandt is a propagandist
本質上,這是一種鼓吹
in the Christian view.
在宗教的角度來說
Now the word "propaganda" sets off alarm bells.
林布蘭會是一名宣傳人員
We think of Hitler, we think of Stalin. Don't, necessarily.
如今,我們每逢提及「鼓吹」都會惹人警覺
Propaganda is a manner of being didactic in honor of something.
我們會聯想起希特拉和斯大林。但,這是不必要的
And if that thing is good, there's no problem with it at all.
這只是一種宣揚理念的手法
My view is that museums should take a leaf out of the book of religions.
如果理念是好的,這手法本身沒有問題。
And they should make sure that when you walk into a museum --
我認為美術館該向宗教學習
if I was a museum curator,
館長們應該確保當參觀者進入時──
I would make a room for love, a room for generosity.
假設我是一名導遊
All works of art are talking to us about things.
我會設立以「愛」,或「慷慨」為主題的展覽廳
And if we were able to arrange spaces
把所有主題一致的藝術品放在一起
where we could come across works
如果空間充裕
where we would be told, use these works of art
在我們觀賞藝術品的同時
to cement these ideas in your mind,
我們可以同時獲知它的意義為何,並用它們
we would get a lot more out of art.
完滿我們對該主題的理解
Art would pick up the duty that it used to have
我們將會獲益良多
and that we've neglected because of certain mis-founded ideas.
藝術將重新負起
Art should be one of the tools
那個曾一度因被誤導而被摒棄的責任
by which we improve our society.
藝術應該是一個
Art should be didactic.
改善社會的工具
Let's think of something else.
藝術應該具有教化作用
The people in the modern world, in the secular world,
讓我們再想多一點別的
who are interested in matters of the spirit,
在去宗教化的世界裡,有些人
in matters of the mind,
熱衷於精神追求
in higher soul-like concerns,
熱衷於各種思想
tend to be isolated individuals.
熱衷於修養性靈
They're poets, they're philosophers, they're photographers, they're filmmakers.
他們通常是孤身上路
And they tend to be on their own.
他們寫詩,鑽研哲學,攝影,拍戲
They're our cottage industries. They are vulnerable, single people.
他們傾向獨立行動
And they get depressed and they get sad on their own.
他們像小型工作坊,不牢固,獨立於彼此
And they don't really change much.
他們獨自神傷
Now think about religions, think about organized religions.
又無法真正甚麼改變
What do organized religions do?
相比之下,宗教非常團結
They group together, they form institutions.
團結何益?
And that has all sorts of advantages.
教徒走在一起,組成組織
First of all, scale, might.
有很多好處
The Catholic Church pulled in 97 billion dollars last year
首先,規模和力量
according to the Wall Street Journal.
華爾街日報說
These are massive machines.
天主教教會去年籌得97億元
They're collaborative, they're branded, they're multinational,
都是些龐大的架構
and they're highly disciplined.
他們同心合力,出師有名,跨越國界
These are all very good qualities.
組織內高度紀律
We recognize them in relation to corporations.
質素良好
And corporations are very like religions in many ways,
就像大企業一樣
except they're right down at the bottom of the pyramid of needs.
大企業與宗教團體有許多共通點
They're selling us shoes and cars.
唯一分別在於企業所供給的,是位於需求金字塔最底層的物質
Whereas the people who are selling us the higher stuff --
企業向人兜售鞋履和汽車
the therapists, the poets --
而那些滿足我們較高層次需求的人,包括
are on their own and they have no power,
心理治療師,詩人等等
they have no might.
個個獨自行事,並不強大
So religions are the foremost example
他們力量很有限
of an institution that is fighting for the things of the mind.
宗教團體是一個上佳的例子
Now we may not agree with what religions are trying to teach us,
說明人類可以如何組織起來對抗世界潮流
but we can admire the institutional way
即使我們不認同宗教的內容
in which they're doing it.
但我們可以欣賞他們如何組織起來
Books alone, books written by lone individuals,
宣揚教義
are not going to change anything.
那些彼此獨立的作家們所寫的
We need to group together.
無法改變甚麼
If you want to change the world, you have to group together, you have to be collaborative.
我們必須組織起來
And that's what religions do.
如果你想改變世界,你必須組織起來,與人合作
They are multinational, as I say,
這正是宗教團體的做法
they are branded, they have a clear identity,
正如我所說,宗教團體是跨國的
so they don't get lost in a busy world.
他們出師有名,有明確的定位
That's something we can learn from.
不會在繁雜的世界迷失
I want to conclude.
這是值得借鏡的地方
Really what I want to say
我想總結
is for many of you who are operating in a range of different fields,
我想說的是
there is something to learn from the example of religion --
在座來自各行各業的觀眾們
even if you don't believe any of it.
宗教裡有值得借鑑的地方
If you're involved in anything that's communal,
即使你不信教
that involves lots of people getting together,
假如你活在群體裡
there are things for you in religion.
一個包括許多人的群體裡
If you're involved, say, in a travel industry in any way,
那麼宗教裡有值得參考的例子
look at pilgrimage.
比方說,你在旅遊業工作
Look very closely at pilgrimage.
你可以參考一下「朝聖」這回事
We haven't begun to scratch the surface
如果你認真想想
of what travel could be
我們幾乎完全沒想過
because we haven't looked at what religions do with travel.
「朝聖」對旅遊業
If you're in the art world,
可以有甚麼啟示
look at the example of what religions are doing with art.
如果你是藝術工作者
And if you're an educator in any way,
想想看,宗教如何處理藝術
again, look at how religions are spreading ideas.
如果你在教育界
You may not agree with the ideas,
想想看,宗教如何教化人
but my goodness, they're highly effective mechanisms for doing so.
也許你不認同宗教的做法
So really my concluding point
但是,天啊,宗教的一套實在是太有效了
is you may not agree with religion,
所以,我的結論是
but at the end of the day,
即使你不認同宗教
religions are so subtle, so complicated,
可是,宗教的內容確是
so intelligent in many ways
很精妙複雜
that they're not fit to be abandoned to the religious alone;
而且相當有智慧的
they're for all of us.
不應全盤否定
Thank you very much.
人人皆可從中受益
(Applause)
謝謝
Chris Anderson: Now this is actually a courageous talk,
(掌聲)
because you're kind of setting up yourself in some ways
基斯.安迪臣:這真是一個很勇敢的演說
to be ridiculed in some quarters.
因為這樣說,你讓自己
AB: You can get shot by both sides.
很容易被人挑剔
You can get shot by the hard-headed atheists,
迪布頓:腹背受敵
and you can get shot by those who fully believe.
頑固的無神論者批評你
CA: Incoming missiles from North Oxford at any moment.
虔誠教徒也會批評你
AB: Indeed.
安迪臣:隨時有導彈從牛津北部向你發射
CA: But you left out one aspect of religion
迪布頓:的確如此
that a lot of people might say
安迪臣:你似乎說漏了宗教中的一環
your agenda could borrow from,
許多人會說
which is this sense --
你所提倡的
that's actually probably the most important thing to anyone who's religious --
有個說法是
of spiritual experience,
其實教徒從宗教中獲得最最重要的
of some kind of connection
屬靈體驗
with something that's bigger than you are.
是某種關連
Is there any room for that experience in Atheism 2.0?
連接教徒,和一個比他更偉大的存在
AB: Absolutely. I, like many of you, meet people
無神論2.0中,有沒有類似的體驗?
who say things like, "But isn't there something bigger than us,
迪布頓:當然,我也認識不少人
something else?"
說「難道世上沒有比我們
And I say, "Of course." And they say, "So aren't you sort of religious?"
人類更偉大的存在嗎?」
And I go, "No." Why does that sense of mystery,
我說「當然有的」。然後他們說,「那你就是認同宗教囉?」
that sense of the dizzying scale of the universe,
我接著說「不是的」。為甚麼這種奇異感動
need to be accompanied by a mystical feeling?
被宇宙的偉大所觸動
Science and just observation
不得不與神怪扯上關係?
gives us that feeling without it,
科學和精準的觀察
so I don't feel the need.
也可以在不談神怪的情況下,觸動人
The universe is large and we are tiny,
我不認為有這個必要
without the need for further religious superstructure.
宇宙浩瀚,而人類渺小
So one can have so-called spiritual moments
這不需要宗教的超自然學說
without belief in the spirit.
在不相信神怪的前提下
CA: Actually, let me just ask a question.
也能有「屬靈體驗」
How many people here would say
安迪臣:讓我問一個問題
that religion is important to them?
在場各位有誰認為
Is there an equivalent process
對他而言,宗教是不可或缺的?
by which there's a sort of bridge
到底有沒有一個類似的說法
between what you're talking about and what you would say to them?
可以讓他們從另一個方向理解
AB: I would say that there are many, many gaps in secular life
理解你剛才所說的?
and these can be plugged.
迪布頓:我認為無神論的世界的而且確是千瘡百孔,充滿缺口的
It's not as though, as I try to suggest,
這些缺口可用宗教填滿
it's not as though either you have religion
這並不是說
and then you have to accept all sorts of things,
要麼你選擇宗教
or you don't have religion
同時選擇它的全部
and then you're cut off from all these very good things.
要麼你摒棄宗教
It's so sad that we constantly say,
同時拒絕一切可取之處
"I don't believe so I can't have community,
我們常聽說:「我不信教
so I'm cut off from morality,
於是我沒有社群
so I can't go on a pilgrimage."
於是我脫離道德價值
One wants to say, "Nonsense. Why not?"
於是我便不能踏上朝聖之路。」這樣很可憐
And that's really the spirit of my talk.
有人會問:「無聊。為甚麼不?」
There's so much we can absorb.
這正正是我演說的中心思想
Atheism shouldn't cut itself off from the rich sources of religion.
宗教有太多可取之處
CA: It seems to me that there's plenty of people in the TED community
無神論不應該拒絕宗教裡豐富的內涵
who are atheists.
安迪臣:在TED群體中,似乎有頗多人
But probably most people in the community
是無神論者
certainly don't think that religion is going away any time soon
也許大部份人認為
and want to find the language
短時間內,宗教是不可能消失的
to have a constructive dialogue
他們想找到合適的語言
and to feel like we can actually talk to each other
作有建設性的對話
and at least share some things in common.
讓人感到彼此之間的確可以溝通
Are we foolish to be optimistic
或者最少有些共同點
about the possibility of a world
這樣想是否太傻太樂觀呢?
where, instead of religion being the great rallying cry
這世界是否可以
of divide and war,
不讓有神無神之爭
that there could be bridging?
分裂世界
AB: No, we need to be polite about differences.
我們是否有彼此溝通了解的可能性呢?
Politeness is a much-overlooked virtue.
迪布頓:這想法不傻。只要我們懂得和而不同。
It's seen as hypocrisy.
我們經常忘記禮儀
But we need to get to a stage when you're an atheist
它聽起來太虛偽
and someone says, "Well you know, I did pray the other day,"
但到某時候,一個教徒會對你說
you politely ignore it.
「你知道,我那天有祈禱」
You move on.
而你禮貌地無視之
Because you've agreed on 90 percent of things,
該幹嘛幹嘛去
because you have a shared view on so many things,
因為你們兩個能認同九成以上的事物
and you politely differ.
你們的世界觀有許多相通之處
And I think that's what the religious wars of late have ignored.
故能達致和而不同
They've ignored the possibility of harmonious disagreement.
我認為近代的有神無神之爭,忽略了這一點
CA: And finally, does this new thing that you're proposing
大家忘了其實彼此是可以和而不同的
that's not a religion but something else,
安迪臣:最後,你提倡的無神論2.0
does it need a leader,
本身並非一個宗教
and are you volunteering to be the pope?
但它需要一個領袖嗎
(Laughter)
而你是否願意當無神論者的教宗?
AB: Well, one thing that we're all very suspicious of
(笑聲)
is individual leaders.
迪布頓:唔,我們對個人領袖
It doesn't need it.
非常警剔
What I've tried to lay out is a framework
無神論不需要領袖
and I'm hoping that people can just fill it in.
我剛才所言,只是一個理論框架
I've sketched a sort of broad framework.
我希望大家可以自由發揮,付諸實行
But wherever you are, as I say, if you're in the travel industry, do that travel bit.
我只是勾勒出一個大概的結構
If you're in the communal industry, look at religion and do the communal bit.
但不論你是誰,比如說你是旅遊業者,就做旅遊那一塊
So it's a wiki project.
如果你活在社群裡,做社群的工作
(Laughter)
這其實是個維基百科
CA: Alain, thank you for sparking many conversations later.
(笑聲)
(Applause)
安迪臣:雅倫,謝謝你精彩的演說