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  • Hey, it’s Marie Forleo and you are watching MarieTV, the place to be to create a business

  • and a life that you love. If you or anyone you know is struggling to figure out what

  • should I do with my life? In other words, what is your life’s work, my guest today

  • is here to help.

  • Chris Guillebeau is the author of the New York Times bestsellers The $100 Startup and

  • The Happiness of Pursuit and is the creator and host of the annual World Domination Summit,

  • a gathering of creative, awesome people. During a 10 year quest, Chris visited every country

  • in the world. He’s also a long time entrepreneur who believes in creating freedom while truly

  • giving back. His newest book is called Born for This: How to Find the Work You Were Meant

  • to Do.

  • Chris Guillebeau. It is so good to have you back on the show and finally in the studio,

  • because weve done this several times but it was always Skypetown USA.

  • Marie Forleo, thank you so much. It’s a huge honor. I always come back whenever I

  • have a book.

  • Yeah. And which I am so excited to talk about this book because when I saw the title and

  • saw what it was about I said, “Thank the Lord someone is talking about this,” because

  • so many folks that I get a chance to meet and to connect with online struggle with this

  • very topic of figuring out what they should do with their lives. Soso let’s dive

  • into it. What inspired you to really tackle this subject, because it’s a big one.

  • Well, I know this is something were both very passionate about because we both hear

  • from people all over the world that are trying to figure out their path and, like, what’s…

  • what’s best. And I wanna say since the last time I was on MarieTV, I went out and did

  • a big tour. I went to, like, 30 cities, and I met more people from MarieTV than any other

  • source. And I went around to different cities, I have been on national media, I’ve done

  • some really, really big shows, lots of newspaper coverage, and I heard from, like, you know,

  • 5% of those people and, like, so many viewers from MarieTV. So I wanna say thank you for

  • that. Not to interrupt or sidetrack your question. I look forward to hearing from many more.

  • And as for what inspired it, you know, I feel very fortunate in that I feel like I have

  • found the work I’m born to do. I feel, you know, like I have the greatest job in the

  • world. I feel like I’ve won the career lottery. And I think if you talk to people who also

  • feel that way, they say things like, you know, I would do this for free. I love my work so

  • much. And I wanted to understand what that process was like and how it can be replicated.

  • And I think a lot of those people, we feel fortunate, as I said, but weve also made

  • different choices. And so weve come to different turning points in our lives, weve

  • had the opportunity to do one thing or another, and for whatever reason weve chosen this

  • path. And so how is that? And how do people make those choices, what do they do differently,

  • and how can everyone make those choices to find the work they were born to do?

  • Were you intimidated at all going at this subject? Because it’s a big one and there’s

  • so many different ways that you can tackle it.

  • It’s a big subject, but it’s really important. It’s really important and it’s really

  • fascinating and it’s fun. It’s fun to talk to people who have found the work they

  • were born to do, because they feel so alive. And you can see it in them, you can recognize

  • it in them. You know? You can sometimes even come across this in your own life if you

  • if you, you know, meet someone that you knew a long time ago, maybe your friend from high

  • school or something, and you lost track of them. And then 15 years later you see them

  • on Facebook or somewhere and you realize, like, what they have gone on to do and youre

  • like, “That’s exactly what they shouldve done. Like, that person became a lawyer and

  • I didn’t know they were gonna do that, but they were always really analytical, they were

  • good with asking questions and solving problems. Or they became a teacher, of course theyre

  • a teacher. You know, that makes perfect sense. They were always so caring, they were always

  • so instructive. You know, they were good at helping people.” So I don’t think I was

  • intimidated, I was inspired. I was excited about it.

  • That’s awesome. You know, one philosophy in the book that you and I share, and it’s

  • something I talk about as often as possible, is this idea that everyone should think like

  • an entrepreneur, whether or not you wanna run your own business or you wanna start anything.

  • It’s just that mindset that is so essential these days, and I was wondering if you could

  • speak to that.

  • Yes. Everyone should think like an entrepreneur, whether they want to be an entrepreneur or

  • not. There are lots of great careers in which you have to work with an organization or a

  • company, and that’s great. My mom worked for NASA for more than 30 years. You can’t

  • be an astronaut or support a space shuttle launch as an entrepreneur. That was something

  • that she wanted to be part of a greater team. I interviewedone of the stories in the

  • book is the first female firefighter from Mississauga, Ontario. And 21 years ago there

  • were no female firefighters there and she set upshe set out on this journey to kind

  • of crack the system and figure out, ok, how can I, like, I really want to be a firefighter

  • but it’s really hard and I have to pass all these tests. And, you know, she was also

  • very small, she weighed like 102 pounds, but she made it work. Right? And so I think even

  • in a traditional job, you have to look out for yourself. Youre always self employed

  • even if youre employed I think, you know. Like, youre ultimately responsible for

  • your own career and if you want to not only be stable and create security but also to

  • create the best possible work and solution for yourself, you have to think entrepreneurially.

  • So from your research and from your own experience, do you feel that each of us was born for a

  • specific job or a specific calling? Or have you discovered that perhaps there’s multiple

  • options for each of us?

  • I think there’s a… I think it’s a little bit of both because one thing I really wanna

  • say is, you know, I think a lot of people when I talk to people about this book, they

  • were worried about mistakes they had made. And they were worried about, like, you know,

  • I had this opportunity and I let it go. Or I shouldve done this and I ended up doing

  • something different. I really learned that you can recover from most mistakes. Like,

  • most of us have made mistakes, weve done different things and that’s… that’s

  • normal. So there are a lot of different paths. I don’t think there’s just necessarily

  • one path, you know, for everyone. You know, there’s this whole, like, poem about, you

  • know, the road not taken or the road less travelled and I took this one, it made all

  • the difference. But we don’t really know the other story. Right? We don’t know what

  • happened, like, what if you’d actually gone back and taken the other one? Maybe it wouldve

  • been great too. Maybe it wouldve been better. So I do think there’s more than one path,

  • but I also think when you talk to people who have found the work they were born to do,

  • theyre so excited about it you can tell that they have found something that is really

  • unique and really special. So even though there’s more than one path, I think it’s

  • important to kind of work toward whatever this special thing is. Work toward this

  • this combination of factors to where, like, were really happy and we have all the money

  • that we need and were doing something that were really good at. I think… I think

  • that’s the goal, right? So it’s not like this one elusive thing, but if you look at

  • really successful people, if you look at Beyonce, like, Beyonce probably couldve done a bunch

  • of different things but isn’t it so good that she’s doing, you know, what she’s

  • doing? Or anyone that you admire. You kind of look at them and youre like they

  • theyve really found their thing.

  • Which speaks to, actually, another really great frame in the book, which is the joy

  • money flow concept, and you can kind of use that to start to decipher if there’s a few

  • things that youre considering doing, which is something that a lot of our audience runs

  • up against. Like, what should I pick? I have so many things that I wanna do. Can you speak

  • a little bit toto what that concept is, joy money flow?

  • Absolutely. So in the book there’s a lot of different exercises to help people kind

  • of see, ok, I’ve got all of these different options. What should I do next? What should

  • I be working towards? And what we found is that everybody who is successful, and by successful

  • I mean, like, absolutely fulfilled in their career, you know, passionate about it and

  • feeling like theyre doing something that theyre supposed to do, they have these

  • 3 characteristics. And first of all they have joy, theyre happy in their work, they enjoy

  • what they do most of the time. Theyre not doing a soul sucking job. If they have a job,

  • it’s a great job. Or if it’s something that theyve built for themselves, they

  • really enjoy it. And the second quality is money, because there’s lots of things that

  • you can do that you enjoy but if you don’t get paid for them, then it’s a hobby. Which

  • is great, like, it’s good to have a hobby but if youre talking about a career it

  • has to be financially sustainable. So joy, money, and then the third factor is flow,

  • which is really doing something that youre good at, really doing something where when

  • you do it youre immersed in it and the hours just kind of pass by. And it’s also

  • really easy for you. It’s something that youre good at and other people are like,

  • Wow, like, you know, she’s really good at that. Takes me a lot longer to do it or

  • I’m not good at it.” But so I think what were looking for is this combination of

  • all 3 factors. We want something that brings joy, we want something that is financially

  • sustainable, we want something that brings flow. And I don’t think people will be happy

  • unless they have all 3 of these factors.

  • Yeah.

  • I think you can be a little bityou can be ok. Right? There’s lots of people who

  • do jobs they don’t love. And that’s fine, they get a paycheck and maybe theyre satisfied

  • in other areas of their life. But because life is short, why not try to work towards

  • something, you know, that is not just, you know, ok but is amazing. Right? Isn’t that

  • the goal?

  • Absolutely. And I think one of the genius things about this concept is that it applies

  • even if you are in what you consider the work that youre going to do. And, you know,

  • for me, when I thought about this concept of joy and money and flow, you can apply that

  • to revenue streams. You know, whether or not you really want to take this thing on or this

  • project on or this client on. Is it gonna be financially viable to the degree that you

  • want and is it really just something that’s deserving of your time and is aligned with

  • your strengths? So I think it’s a great litmus test

  • Absolutely.

  • if youre still searching, but then if youve found it it can also take care of

  • whether or not you should move ahead with a particular project or client.

  • Totally agree.

  • So let’s talk about expanding your options and then eliminating them, which I think is

  • so great for those of us who, you know, I’ve coined this term multipassionate entrepreneur.

  • When I was first getting started I was so confused because I couldn’t pick one thing

  • to do. I loved so many things from coaching and hip hop and dance and writing and marketing

  • and spirituality, and I felt schizophrenic.

  • Interesting.

  • So talk to me about expanding your options and then eliminating them, what you found

  • in the book.

  • So I think maybe if we go back to somebody who’s in that beginning part of their career,

  • I think the wrong advice to them would be say just pick one of those things. And that’s

  • what everybody says all the time. Theyre always like, “Oh, you haveyou have to

  • focus, you have to just pick your niche or your niche. Youve gotta do that.” And

  • how are you really gonna find that combination of factors, of joy, money, and flow, without

  • expanding your options, without trying a lot of different stuff? So you did that.

  • Yeah.

  • You did that in your career. I did that. And I think in thein the beginning part of

  • really trying to figure out what am I good at and also not just what am I good at, but

  • what is going to be rewarded, you know, in the marketplace? You know, I said yes to a

  • lot of different things. And so I always encourage people when youre starting out, expand

  • your options. Do everything that you can to have a lot of different experiences and then

  • as you become more successful, as you have more experience, then you limit the options.

  • Then you start being more selective. Then you start being like, ok, I am gonna apply

  • that litmus test more often. I am gonna say, ok, you know, I’ve got all these different

  • things I could do. What is most aligned? Whatwhere can I have the most convergence, you

  • know, what am I really like getting close to? How am I gonna have the biggest impact

  • in the world? But I don’t think you can necessarily do that when youre just getting

  • started, because you don’t know.

  • You can’t. And that’s the thing I always try and stress to people is to give yourself

  • permission to do a lot of different things without trying to force that focus too fast.

  • Because for some of us, certainly me, not in my DNA to focus right out of the gate.

  • I did not have a clear answer and I remember somewhat envying people. You know, Josh, my

  • fiancé, he knew he wanted to be an actor from, like, the moment he popped out of the

  • womb. But, you know, I think between 60 and I’d say 80 to 90 percent of us don’t have

  • that.

  • Right.

  • So this advice is just so good and I love you suggest for us to eliminate ideas that

  • don’t bring you joy when you think of them.

  • Right.

  • That’s a really smart thing.

  • Yeah. So you can have this inferiority complex because you can look and see, like, successful

  • people and youre like, “Oh, they must have known, like, all along.” And most of

  • them didn’t.

  • Yes.

  • You know, most of them actually went through this nonlinear path, most of them went through

  • this whole path of discovery and path of trying things that didn’t work out, which is totally

  • fine and totally normal. And they were able to successfully say goodbye to those things

  • and embrace something else. You know, I don’t know what you wanted to be when you grew up,

  • when you were 6 years old or 8 years old.

  • 5 or 6 things. My books had all different, like, from teacher to speaker to actor to

  • dancer, I… all the stuff.

  • Ok. That’s actually still not too far from what youre doing now. When I was a kid,

  • when I was 6, I wanted to work at Burger King. Because I thought Burger King was the best

  • restaurant when I was 6 years old.

  • Naturally, yeah.

  • Right? And so I think of that a lot now because fortunately I grew out of that. But, you know,

  • people are always like, “Oh, when I was a kid I wanted to be the President or I wanted

  • to be the astronaut,” or whatever. And sometimes it’s ok to change. Right? Sometimes it’s

  • ok to evolve.

  • Yeah. For sure. Let’s talk about what I think is such an important topic, one of the

  • chapters you end with. Winners give up all the time. You say that perseverance is good

  • for some goals, but not all of them. So how can we start to know for ourselves and decipher

  • when we should persevere and when it’s just time to get outta town?

  • So along with the inferiority complex, I feel like one of the things that we have in our

  • culture is this notion of never give up. Right? And you must never give up and you always

  • have to persevere. And it’s true in the broad sense of, ok, never give up on life.

  • Like, youre always gonnayoure gonna figure something out.

  • Never give up on love.

  • Right. Never give up on life or love, but lots of other things. You know, it’s ok.

  • It’s totally fine. You know, it’s like we have all these, like, inspirational quotes

  • about it and there’s one called, you know, you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take

  • or something, which comes from Wayne Gretzky, the hot hockey player. And I always think

  • this is interesting because you see this quote everywhere, it’s like on the Pinterest,

  • on the Instagram, lots of likes and stuff. But it’s like, ok, it’s true. You miss

  • 100% of the shots you don’t take. But should you really keep taking the same kind of shot

  • all the time? I don’t know much about hockey, but I would assume you don’t have an unlimited

  • opportunity to keep doing the same thing, you know, over and over. Pretty soon your

  • teammates are gonna stop, you know, passing the puck to you or whatever. So it’s like,

  • you know, the way we figure out when to give up and move on or when to keep going is by

  • asking ourselves two questions. One, is it working? And two, am I happy? Do I still enjoy

  • this? And I think if you answer yes to both questions. Yup, it’s working. Two, still

  • happy about it. Great. You keep going. If you answer no to both questions, it’s not

  • working, I’m not happy about it, then you can completely let it go