"Why does that guy get to sit down?"

「為什麼這傢伙坐着？」

That's because this is radio.

因為這是在廣播。

(Music)

（音樂）

I tell radio stories about design,

我廣播有關設計的故事，

and I report on all kinds of stories:

我講述各種各樣的故事：

buildings and toothbrushes

建築和牙刷

and mascots and wayfinding and fonts.

吉祥物、路標還有字體。

My mission is to get people to engage with the design that they care about

我的任務是讓人們關注 他們在乎的設計，

so they begin to pay attention to all forms of design.

讓人們開始注意各種形式的設計。

When you decode the world with design intent in mind,

當你用設計的眼光看世界時，

the world becomes kind of magical.

世界開始變得神奇。

Instead of seeing the broken things,

看見的不再是支零破碎的物體，

you see all the little bits of genius

而是點點滴滴的智慧

that anonymous designers have sweated over

由無名的設計家辛苦構建

to make our lives better.

目的是讓我們生活更加美好。

And that's essentially the definition of design:

而這就是設計的精華定義：

making life better and providing joy.

讓生活更美好、為生活提供歡樂。

And few things give me greater joy

精心設計的旗幟

than a well-designed flag.

是最能給我帶來歡樂的事物之一。

(Laughter) (Applause)

（掌聲）（笑聲）

Yeah!

沒錯！

Happy 50th anniversary on your flag, Canada.

50歲生日快樂，加拿大國旗。

It is beautiful, gold standard. Love it.

非常漂亮，黃金標準。人見人愛。

I'm kind of obsessed with flags.

我對旗幟非常著迷。

Sometimes I bring up the topic of flags,

有時我跟別人聊旗幟，

and people are like, "I don't care about flags,"

對方就會說：「我不在乎旗幟。」

and then we start talking about flags, and trust me,

然後我們開始聊旗幟，信不信由你，

100 percent of people care about flags.

所有人都在乎旗幟。

There's just something about them that works on our emotions.

旗幟裡面有一種奇妙的東西 左右著我們的情感。

My family wrapped my Christmas presents as flags this year,

今年我的家人用國旗 包裝我的聖誕禮物，

including the blue gift bag

也包括右上方那個藍色禮物袋

that's dressed up as the flag of Scotland.

設計用的是蘇格蘭旗。

I put this picture online, and sure enough,

我將這照片擺上網，當然，

within the first few minutes, someone left a comment that said,

幾分鐘內就有人留言說：

"You can take that Scottish Saltire and shove it up your ass." (Laughter)

「收起蘇格蘭的聖安德魯十字旗， 塞到你屁股裡。」（笑聲）

Which -- see, people are passionate about flags, you know?

看吧，人們相當熱衷於旗幟。

That's the way it is.

這就是旗幟的力量。

What I love about flags

我之所以喜歡旗幟，

is that once you understand the design of flags,

是因為一旦你理解了旗幟的設計

what makes a good flag, what makes a bad flag,

理解怎樣才算好的旗幟， 怎樣才算壞的旗幟，

you can understand the design of almost anything.

你就可以理解 幾乎所有事物的設計。

So what I'm going to do here is,

所以我現在要做的是

I cracked open an episode of my radio show,

我開始我的設計廣播節目 「99% Invisible」

"99% Invisible," and I'm going to reconstruct it here on stage,

我將會在台上呈現這個節目

so when I press a button over here --

所以當我在這點擊按鈕時——

Voice: S for Sound --

聲音：S代表聲音——

Roman Mars: It's going to make a sound,

羅曼·馬斯：就會發出聲音，

and so whenever you hear a sound

所以大家要是聽到聲音

or a voice or a piece of music,

或者音樂，

it's because I pressed a button.

那是因為我按了按鈕。

Voice: Sssssound.

聲音：嘶——聲音。

RM: All right, got it? Here we go.

馬斯：好了？我們開始吧。

Three, two.

三，二。

This is 99% Invisible. I'm Roman Mars.

歡迎收聽「99% Invisible」 我是羅曼·馬斯

Narrator: The five basic principles of flag design.

陳述者：設計旗幟的五個基本原則。

Roman Mars: According to the North American Vexillological Association.

馬斯：根據北美旗幟學協會

Vexillological.

旗幟學

Ted Kaye: Vexillology is the study of flags.

泰德·凱伊（旗幟學家）： 旗幟學指對旗幟的研究。

RM: It's that extra "lol" that makes it sound weird.

馬斯：聽上去有點怪異， 是因為裡面的笑意。

Narrator: Number one, keep it simple.

陳述者：第一，設計要簡單。

The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory.

旗幟應該設計簡單， 連小孩子也能記住畫出來。

RM: Before I moved to Chicago in 2005,

馬斯：2005年搬到芝加哥之前

I didn't even know cities had their own flags.

我並不知道城市也有自己的旗幟。

TK: Most larger cities do have flags.

凱伊：大部分的大型城市 的確有自己的旗幟。

RM: Well, I didn't know that. That's Ted Kaye, by the way.

馬斯：我那時並不知道。 噢，這是泰德·凱伊。

TK: Hello. RM: He's a flag expert.

凱伊：大家好。 馬斯：他是旗幟學專家。

He's a totally awesome guy.

他超級棒。

TK: I'm Ted Kaye. I have edited a scholarly journal on flag studies,

凱伊：我叫泰德·凱伊。我編輯過 一本旗幟學的學術周刊，

and I am currently involved with the Portland Flag Association

目前我在波特蘭旗幟協會

and the North American Vexillological Association.

還有北美旗幟學協會。

RM: Ted literally wrote the book on flag design.

馬斯：泰德寫了一本 關於旗幟設計的書。

Narrator: "Good Flag, Bad Flag."

陳述者：「好旗，壞旗」

RM: It's more of a pamphlet, really. It's about 16 pages.

馬斯：這看上去更像小冊子。 大概有16頁。

TK: Yes, it's called "Good Flag, Bad Flag:

凱伊：沒錯，書名為

How to Design a Great Flag."

「好旗，壞旗： 如何設計一支出色的旗幟」

RM: And that first city flag I discovered in Chicago

馬斯：我在芝加哥發現的第一支市旗

is a beaut:

美麗動人：

white field, two horizontal blue stripes,

白色背景，兩條水平藍色條紋，

and four six-pointed red stars down the middle.

還有中間四個六角紅星。

Narrator: Number two: use meaningful symbolism.

陳述者：第二，使用有意義的象徵。

TK: The blue stripes represent the water, the river and the lake.

凱伊：藍色條紋代表 水、河流、湖泊。

Narrator: The flag's images, colors or pattern

陳述者：旗幟的圖案、顏色、圖形

should relate to what it symbolizes.

應該與象徵的事物相關。

TK: The red stars represent significant events in Chicago's history.

凱伊：紅星代表 芝加哥的重要歷史事件。

RM: Namely, the founding of Fort Dearborn on the future site of Chicago,

馬斯：指的是未來芝加哥的 迪爾伯恩堡的建立；

the Great Chicago Fire,

1871年的芝加哥大火；

the World Columbian Exposition, which everyone remembers

芝加哥哥倫布世界紀念博覽館，

because of the White City,

由於懷特城，大家都記得這一事件；

and the Century of Progress Exposition,

還有芝加哥萬國博覽會，

which no one remembers at all.

沒有人記得這一事件。

Narrator: Number three, use two to three basic colors.

陳述者：第三， 使用兩到三種基本顏色。

TK: The basic rule for colors is to use two to three colors

凱伊：顏色的基本原則是

from the standard color set:

使用標準顏色集裡的 兩到三種基本顏色：

red, white, blue, green, yellow and black.

紅、白、藍、綠、黃、黑。

RM: The design of the Chicago flag has complete buy-in

馬斯：芝加哥市旗的設計 深受大眾喜愛，

with an entire cross-section of the city.

在城市各個地方都可看見。

It is everywhere;

非常普遍；

every municipal building flies the flag.

每幢市建築都立著這一支旗。

Whet Moser: Like, there's probably at least one store on every block

Whet Moser：我工作附近 每條街上都有至少一家商店

near where I work that sells some sort of Chicago flag paraphernalia.

會賣帶有芝加哥市旗的用具。

RM: That's Whet Moser from Chicago magazine.

馬斯：他是芝加哥雜誌的 Whet Moser。

WM: Today, just for example, I went to get a haircut,

Moser：譬如今天我去剪頭髮，

and when I sat down in the barber's chair,

我坐在理髮師的椅子上，

there was a Chicago flag on the box that the barber kept all his tools in,

看見理髮師的工具箱上 就有一支芝加哥市旗，

and then in the mirror there was a Chicago flag on the wall behind me.

然後鏡子裡面在我身後 也有一支芝加哥市旗。

When I left, a guy passed me who had a Chicago flag badge on his backpack.

我離開的時候，經過一個男子 背包上面有一個芝加哥市旗徽章。

RM: It's adaptable and remixable.

馬斯：旗幟的適應力和混搭力很強。

The six-pointed stars in particular show up in all kinds of places.

特別是六角形 在各種地方都能看見。

WM: The coffee I bought the other day

Moser：有天我買的咖啡上

had a Chicago star on it.

就有一顆芝加哥星。

RM: It's a distinct symbol of Chicago pride.

馬斯：這是芝加哥驕傲的獨特標誌。

TK: When a police officer or a firefighter dies in Chicago,

凱伊：芝加哥裡 有警察或消防員身亡時

often it's not the flag of the United States on his casket.

靈柩上一般放的不是美國國旗。

It can be the flag of the city of Chicago.

放的可以是芝加哥市旗。

That's how deeply the flag has gotten into the civic imagery of Chicago.

這就是市旗 對芝加哥市民形象的力量。

RM: And it isn't just that people love Chicago and therefore love the flag.

馬斯：這不只是人們喜歡芝加哥 才喜歡芝加哥的市旗。

I also think that people love Chicago more

我認為因為芝加哥市旗太棒了

because the flag is so cool.

所以人們更加喜歡芝加哥。

TK: A positive feedback loop there between great symbolism and civic pride.

凱伊：偉大象徵和市民驕傲之間 一個相當正面的反饋循環。

RM: Okay. So when I moved back to San Francisco in 2008,

馬斯：因此2008年搬回三藩市時，

I researched its flag,

我搜索了三藩市的市旗，

because I had never seen it

因為我從未見過這支旗，

in the previous eight years I lived there.

儘管我在那裡住過八年。

And I found it, I am sorry to say,

然後我發現，很抱歉地說，

sadly lacking.

這支旗不夠力。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

I know.

我知道。

It hurts me, too.

這也讓我很傷心。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

TK: Well, let me start from the top.

凱伊：讓我從頭說起。

Narrator: Number one, keep it simple.

陳述者：第一，設計要簡單。

TK: Keeping it simple.

凱伊：設計要簡單。

Narrator: The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory.

陳述者：旗幟設計應盡量簡單， 連小孩子也能記住畫出來。

TK: It's a relatively complex flag.

凱伊：這是相對複雜的一支旗。

RM: Okay, here we go. Okay.

馬斯：好，我們來。

The main component of the San Francisco flag is a phoenix

三藩市市旗的主要元素是鳳凰

representing the city rising from the ashes

代表經歷了18世紀50年代 的災難性大火後

after the devastating fires of the 1850s.

三藩市在灰燼中重生。

TK: A powerful symbol for San Francisco.

凱伊：三藩市的有力象徵。

RM: I still don't really dig the phoenix.

馬斯：我仍然不太喜歡那隻鳳凰。

Design-wise, it manages to both be too crude

設計方面，旗幟表現得太粗野

and have too many details at the same time,

同時又包涵太多細節，

which if you were trying for that,

要是試圖涵蓋太多細節，

you wouldn't be able to do it,

你終歸是做不出好旗，

and it just looks bad at a distance,

遠看一點都不順眼，

but having deep meaning puts that element in the plus column.

但這些深層的含義 也讓旗幟加點分。

Behind the phoenix, the background is mostly white,

鳳凰後面大部分是白色背景，

and then it has a substantial gold border around it.

然後有大量的金色邊界。

TK: Which is a very attractive design element.

凱伊：這是相當有魅力的設計元素。

RM: I think it's okay. But -- (Laughter) --

馬斯：我認為這還過得去。但是—— （笑聲）——

here come the big no-nos of flag design.

看看旗幟設計的大忌。

Narrator: Number four, no lettering or seals.

陳述者：第四， 不要有字母或者印章。

Never use writing of any kind.

絕對不要使用任何字體。

RM: Underneath the phoenix, there's a motto on a ribbon

馬斯：鳳凰下面的緞帶上 寫著一句格言

that translates to "Gold in peace, iron in war,"

其譯文為：「和平金色，戰爭鐵色」

plus -- and this is the big problem --

另外——這是大問題——

it says San Francisco across the bottom.

下面寫著三藩市。

TK: If you need to write the name

凱伊：如果你得靠寫下

of what you're representing on your flag,

旗幟所代表的事物的名稱，

your symbolism has failed.

這象徵就失敗了。

(Laughter) (Applause)

（笑聲）（掌聲）

RM: The United States flag doesn't say "USA" across the front.

馬斯：美國國旗上可不寫「美國」。

In fact, country flags, they tend to behave.

事實上，國家國旗一般比較聽話。

Like, hats off to South Africa and Turkey and Israel

比如說，看看南非、土耳其、以色列

and Somalia and Japan and Gambia.

看看索馬里、日本、岡比亞。

There's a bunch of really great country flags,

這些國旗都很棒，

but they obey good design principles because the stakes are high.

但是他們遵循優秀設計的原則， 因為風險太高。

They're on the international stage.

他們走的是國際舞台。

But city, state and regional flags

但是市旗、州旗、區旗

are another story.

又是另一回事。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

There is a scourge of bad flags,

也有一幫壞旗，

and they must be stopped.

這些旗幟得有人叫停。

(Laughter) (Applause)

（笑聲）（掌聲）

That is the truth and that is the dare.

這就是真相和膽量。

The first step is to recognize

第一步是

that we have a problem.

認清我們有一個問題。

A lot of people tend to think that good design

許多人一般認為 好的設計

is just a matter of taste,

不過是品味問題，

and quite honestly, sometimes it is, actually,

老實說，有時候是這樣，

but sometimes it isn't, all right?

但有時候又不是這樣。

Here's the full list of NAVA flag design principles.

以下是北美旗幟學協會 旗幟設計的全部原則。

Narrator: The five basic principles of flag design.

陳述者：旗幟設計的五大基本原則。

Number one. TK: Keep it simple.

第一。 凱伊：設計要簡單。

Narrator: Number two. TK: Use meaningful symbolism.

陳述者：第二。 凱伊：使用有意義的象徵。

Narrator: Number three. TK: Use two to three basic colors.

陳述者：第三。 凱伊：使用兩到三種基本顏色。

Narrator: Number four. TK: No lettering or seals.

陳述者：第四。 凱伊：不要用任何字母或印章。

Narrator: Never use writing of any kind.

陳述者：絕對不要使用任何字體。

TK: Because you can't read that at a distance.

凱伊：因為在遠處 你不會看到這些字。

Narrator: Number five. TK: And be distinctive.

陳述者：第五。 凱伊：要獨特。

RM: All the best flags tend to stick to these principles.

馬斯：所有出眾的旗幟 一般會遵循這些原則。

And like I said before, most country flags are okay.

像我說的那樣，大部分國旗都很好。

But here's the thing:

但問題是：

if you showed this list of principles to any designer of almost anything,

如果你讓任何設計師看這些原則，

they would say these principles -- simplicity, deep meaning,

他們會說這些原則—— 簡單、有意義、

having few colors or being thoughtful about colors,

用色簡單、謹慎，

uniqueness, don't have writing you can't read --

獨特、不帶任何看不到的字體——

all those principles apply to them, too.

所有這些原則 都適用於所有設計師。

But sadly, good design principles are rarely invoked

但不幸的是，好的設計原則

in U.S. city flags.

很少體現在美國的市旗上。

Our biggest problem seems to be that fourth one.

我們最大的問題 看來是第四條原則。

We just can't stop ourselves

我們就是不能阻止自己

from putting our names on our flags,

將自己的名字放到旗幟上，

or little municipal seals with tiny writing on them.

或者小小的市章和小小的字體。

Here's the thing about municipal seals:

使用市章的問題是：

They were designed to be on pieces of paper

這些市章原來的設計目的是 用在一張紙上，

where you can read them,

讓大家看得清，

not on flags 100 feet away flapping in the breeze.

而不是用在100尺外 隨風飄揚的旗幟上。

So here's a bunch of flags again.

這裡有一堆市旗。

Vexillologists call these SOBs:

旗幟學家稱這些為「床照」：

seals on a bedsheet -- (Laughter) --

床單上的印照——（笑聲）

and if you can't tell what city they go to,

如果你不知道它們屬於哪個城市

yeah, that's exactly the problem,

沒錯，這就是問題，

except for Anaheim, apparently.

明顯除了阿納海姆市旗 （Anaheim，右上角）

They fixed it. (Laughter)

他們解決了這個問題。（笑聲）

These flags are everywhere in the U.S.

這些旗幟在美國隨處可見。

The European equivalent of the municipal seal

歐洲國家的市章

is the city coat of arms,

是城市的遁形紋章，

and this is where we can learn a lesson for how to do things right.

我們能從中學習一下 怎樣把旗幟設計好。

So this is the city coat of arms of Amsterdam.

這是阿姆斯特丹的紋章。

Now, if this were a United States city,

倘若這是一個美國城市，

the flag would probably look like this.

這支市旗估計會長成這樣。

You know, yeah. (Laughter)

你懂的，是吧。（笑聲）

But instead, the flag of Amsterdam

但是阿姆斯特丹的市旗

looks like this.

是這樣的。

Rather than plopping the whole coat of arms

它不是把整個紋章扔進去

on a solid background and writing "Amsterdam" below it,

丟到一個硬邦邦的背景裡 下面再寫著「阿姆斯特丹」；

they just take the key elements of the escutcheon, the shield,

而是採納紋章盾牌的關鍵要素，

and they turn it into the most badass city flag in the world.

將其變成世界上最惹是生非的市旗。

(Laughter) (Applause)

（笑聲）（掌聲）

And because it's so badass,

正因為這支旗夠搗蛋，

those flags and crosses are found throughout Amsterdam,

這些旗幟和交叉 在阿姆斯特丹隨處可見，

just like Chicago, they're used.

就像芝加哥市旗一樣受歡迎。

Even though seal-on-a-bedsheet flags are particularly painful

儘管這些床照旗幟

and offensive to me,

有夠讓我特別痛苦、受不了，

nothing can quite prepare you

你怎麼也不會受得了

for one of the biggest train wrecks in vexillological history.

旗幟學歷史上最嚴重的事故之一。

Are you ready?

準備好了嗎？