Name: ICE、明尼阿波利斯與持槍權 | The Gray Area (ICE, Minneapolis, and the right to carry | The Gray Area)
Uploaded: 2026-02-20T17:13:57.000Z
Duration: 38 min 12 s

Well, we should say that the two people ice have killed in Minneapolis were both white.

嗯，我們應該說，在明尼亞波利斯被殺的兩個人都是白人。

情態助動詞 B1

And so, as you point out, that may be the most impressive achievement in the DEI space, in the anti DEI space of the Trump regime.

所以，就像你說的，這可能是川普政府在 DEI 領域，在反 DEI 領域最令人印象深刻的成就。

Now we've extended cultural colorblind America.

現在我們已經擴大了文化上的色盲美國。

歡迎來到「灰色地帶星期五」。

My guest today is Tyler Austin Harper, one of my favorite writers, a pretty interesting guy with a pretty unique story.

我今天的來賓是 Tyler Austin Harper，他是我最喜歡的作家之一，一個非常有趣的人，有著非常獨特的故事。

He was until very recently a professor of environmental studies at Bates College, and

他直到最近都還是 Bates College 的環境研究教授，

he's now a full time staff writer at the Atlantic, where he writes about all kinds of things, most notably a piece about the shooting in Minneapolis, which we are going to get into today.

他現在是 The Atlantic 的全職專職作家，在那裡他寫了各種各樣的東西，最引人注目的是一篇關於明尼阿波利斯槍擊案的文章，我們今天就要來聊聊這個。

But before we do that, Tyler, that is my intro of you.

但在我們開始之前，Tyler，這就是我對你的介紹。

That is my description of who you are and what you do.

這就是我對你是誰、你做什麼的描述。

How do you describe what you do, what you do?

你怎麼形容你自己做的工作，你做的事情呢？

I'm a degenerate journalist and podcaster.

I do a podcast with Jay Kang from the New Yorker called Time to say Goodbye.

我跟《紐約客》的 Jay Kang 一起做一個播客，叫做 Time to say Goodbye。

Well, what did you feel like you could do as a journalist that you couldn't do as an academic, especially one on the tenure track?

嗯，身為記者，你覺得自己能做什麼，是身為學術界人士（特別是走終身職路線的）做不到的呢？

The idea of tenure is that you have all this intellectual freedom.

終身職的概念就是你擁有所有的學術自由。

You could do and say and write whatever the hell you want without any worries.

你可以隨心所欲地做、說、寫任何你想寫的東西，不用擔心。

What did you feel like you could do here that you couldn't do in that space?

你覺得在這裡能做什麼，是在那個環境裡做不到的？

I think I realized I was doing more and more public writing, mostly for the Atlantic, but

我覺得我意識到我做了越來越多的公開寫作，大部分是為《大西洋月刊》寫，但

also New York Times and a few other places.

也有為《紐約時報》和其他一些地方寫。

And over the course of my time as a professor, I realized most of the people I encountered who were intellectually curious and most of the conversations I had that were, you know, driven by a deep interest in the world and ideas were mostly coming from editors and writers and journalists, not academics.

而且在我擔任教授的這段時間裡，我發現我遇到的大多數對知識充滿好奇的人，以及我進行的許多深入探討世界和思想的對話，大多來自編輯、作家和記者，而不是學者。

As an academic, you are so siloed and so specialized that it's actually really hard to have have a substantive and wide ranging conversation with your colleagues because most of them are so way down some rabbit hole that there's not a familiar corpus of work or ideas you can even discuss, even within something like an English department.

身為學者，你被劃分得很細、很專業，所以很難跟同事進行有意義且廣泛的對話，因為他們大多鑽研在某個非常深入的領域，沒有一個你們可以共同討論的熟悉的作品或想法，即使是在像英文系這樣的系所裡。

You know, you'd think you would have this common lingua franca, and

你可能會覺得你們會有共同的語言，

to a certain extent you do, but not nearly as much as you would think.

某種程度上確實有，但遠不如你想像的那麼多。

In certain ways I was well suited for academia, but I think I get impatient too quickly.

在某些方面我其實很適合學術界，但我認為我太容易感到不耐煩了。

And, you know, always have the next project I want to jump on.

而且，我總是有下一個想投入的專案。

I think in a previous iteration of academia, I probably would have stayed.

我想在學術界的某個前身時期，我大概會留下來。

I think, like I said, there were a number of things going on.

我覺得，就像我說的，當時有很多事情在發生。

Both I wanted to write more than I was writing for the public, but

我一方面想寫更多東西給大眾看，但

also, you know, teaching at a place that charges $95,000 a year while some of your colleagues don't have health insurance, and

另一方面，你知道，在一個一年學費要九萬五千美金的地方教書，而你的一些同事卻沒有健康保險，而且

因為他們不是走終身職的路線。

I don't want to paint myself as having taken the moral high road in some sort of way if I would have kept dealing with the ubiquitous exploitation, if that was my only way of getting a paycheck, but

我不想把自己描繪成採取了某種道德高地的樣子，如果我還在處理無所不在的剝削，如果那是我唯一的賺錢方式，但

I could do something else without making myself financially destitute.

我可以做別的事情，而不會讓自己財務困窘。

By the way, 10 points for using the phrase lingua franca.

對了，用「通用語」這個詞，加十分。

You, like, I didn't know who you were, and

你，像是，我不知道你是誰，然後

then suddenly you were kind of everywhere, like, on Twitter.

突然間你好像到處都是，在 Twitter 上。

Like, you really lunged pretty aggressively into the, you know, the discourse.

像是，你真的相當積極地投入到，你知道的，那個討論中。

Was there something about the politics of the moment that sort of compelled you, for whatever reason, that made you feel like, I've got to get involved?

是當時的政治氛圍，不管是什麼原因，讓你覺得，我必須要參與進來嗎？

Did you feel the political gravity of the moment, or were there just other reasons tangential that that led to it?

當時的政治氣氛讓你很有感，還是有其他比較不直接的原因讓你投入的？

I was employed in a very progressive academic institution and really didn't fit in with the cultural milieu there.

我在一間非常進步的學術機構工作，但那裡的文化氛圍讓我覺得格格不入。

And it was a moment where I felt like a lot of people were speaking on my behalf in ways that, you know, really conflicted with a lot of my core beliefs about the world.

當時我覺得很多人都在代表我發聲，但他們的說法跟我對世界的許多核心信念嚴重衝突。

And so, yeah, I just felt really compelled.

I felt like I had something to say about that moment and that I could say it in a way that was not reactionary, that was articulated through tradition, traditional leftist universalism, you know.

我覺得我對那個時刻有些話想說，而且我能用一種不帶反應的方式說出來，透過傳統、傳統的左翼普世主義來表達，你知道的。

So, yeah, I felt sort of compelled to intervene, but mostly out of frustration.

所以，對，我感覺有點被迫介入，但主要是出於沮喪。

I was, like I said, working in a very progressive institution that embodied a lot of the trends we saw in 2020, 2021, 2022, that was using the language of justice to paper over severe and spiraling economic exploitation.

就像我說的，我在一個非常進步的機構工作，這個機構體現了我們在 2020、2021、2022 年看到的大部分趨勢，它利用正義的語言來掩蓋嚴重的、不斷惡化的經濟剝削。

Um, so, yeah, you know, I felt like I had something to say, so I said it.

嗯，所以，對，你知道的，我覺得我有些話想說，所以我就說了。

I certainly am not shy about sharing my views.

我當然不 shy 於分享我的觀點。

I've toned down Twitter mostly because I just really don't like.

我已經把 Twitter 語氣放軟了，主要是因為我真的很不喜歡。

I don't mind being yelled at at all, truly.

我一點都不介意被大吼大叫，真的。

I just do not like being yelled at when I'm not prepared to be yelled at.

我只是不喜歡在我還沒準備好被大吼大叫的時候被吼。

So the experience of tweeting something you think is a kind of innocuous observation, then it gets 2 million views and a lot of people are shrieking at you.

所以，當你發了一條你覺得是無傷大雅的推文，結果它獲得了兩百萬次觀看，然後很多人對你尖叫，這種經驗。

Like, that experience I didn't like so much, but yeah.

這種經驗我不太喜歡，但對啦。

So I've toned down Twitter a bit, but certainly was in the trenches for a while.

所以我稍微放軟了 Twitter 的語氣，但之前確實是在戰壕裡奮鬥了一陣子。

You wrote a piece about what happened there.

你寫了一篇關於那裡發生的事情的文章。

Alex Preddy, an American citizen, was shot and killed in the back on the street by agent who apparently was mag dumped.

美國公民 Alex Preddy 在街上被一名員警從背後開槍射殺，據說員警進行了掃射。

10 rounds over five seconds, which sounds very quick if you don't shoot, but

10 發子彈在五秒內射出，如果你沒開過槍，這聽起來很快，但

這件事發生了一段時間，然後那個人。