Name: AI 讓你大開眼界？The Vergecast 深度解析！ (A very human vision for going all-in on AI | The Vergecast)
Uploaded: 2025-12-07T17:09:12.000Z
Duration: 52 min 37 s

Support for this show comes from MongoDB.

to 不定詞

You're a developer who wants to innovate.

動名詞

Instead you're stuck fixing bottlenecks and fighting legacy code.

結果卻卡在處理瓶頸和應付遺留程式碼。

It's a flexible, unified platform that's built for developers by developers.

這是一個彈性、統一的平臺，為開發者而建，由開發者打造。

MongoDB is acid compliant enterprise ready with the capabilities you need to ship AI apps fast.

MongoDB 是 ACID 相容、企業級就緒，具備你快速交付 AI 應用程式所需的功能。

That's why so many of the Fortune 500 trust MongoDB with their most critical workloads.

這也是為什麼這麼多 Fortune 500 公司信任 MongoDB 來處理他們最關鍵的工作負載。

準備好跳脫列與欄的思維了嗎？

Start building@mongodb.com build welcome to the VertCast, the flagship podcast of personal knowledge management.

開始建構@mongodb.com build 歡迎來到 VertCast，個人知識管理的旗艦播客。

I'm your friend David Pearce and please believe me when I say that if I could make this show entirely about to do list apps and note taking structures and the para method, I would.

我是你的朋友 David Pearce，請相信我，如果這個節目能完全圍繞著待辦事項應用程式、筆記結構和 PARA 方法，我絕對會這麼做。

But for your sake, and frankly also for mine, that is not what we're going to do here.

不過為了你，也坦白說，為了我，我們今天不會這麼做。

What we are going to do here is the second part of our two part miniseries about how developers are using and building with AI in their products.

我們今天要做的，是我們這個兩集迷你係列節目的第二部分，內容是關於開發者如何在他們的產品中使用和建構 AI。

Basically, I reached out to a couple of people who make apps that I really like and just said, can you come explain to me what AI does, what it doesn't do, and

基本上，我聯繫了幾位我非常喜歡的應用程式開發者，然後問他們，能不能來跟我解釋一下 AI 到底能做什麼、不能做什麼，

以及你認為它如何融入這個產品？

We had a lot of fun with Thomas Paul Mann from Raycast last week and this week I'm talking to Sari Azut who builds a tool called Sublime.

上週我們和 Raycast 的 Thomas Paul Mann 玩得很開心，這週我要跟 Sari Azut 聊聊，他開發了一個叫做 Sublime 的工具。

And the way I would describe Sublime, you'll hear Sari describe it too, but

我會這樣形容 Sublime，Sari 也會這麼說，但

the way I would describe it is as a bookmarking tool and then some, right?

我會把它形容成一個書籤工具，而且不只如此，對吧？

The idea is you collect stuff, you, you find a link that you like, or you highlight something in a Kindle book or you journal into Sublime and not only does it sort of put everything in one place and let you make collections and let you search stuff, it tries to use that to start a sort of discovery journey.

這個想法是，你收集東西，你找到一個喜歡的連結，或者你在 Kindle 書裡畫重點，或者你寫日記到 Sublime，它不只會把所有東西放在一個地方，讓你建立收藏集，讓你搜尋東西，它還會試著利用這些來開啟一段發現之旅。

So if you save a quote from an article that you really like, you open up that quote on Sublime's app and it'll also show you this sort of endless feed of other interesting things that you might enjoy based on that quote.

所以，如果你儲存了一篇你很喜歡的文章中的引言，你在 Sublime 的應用程式裡打開這段引言，它也會向你展示類似的無窮無盡的內容，讓你根據這段引言找到可能喜歡的其他東西。

Sometimes it's tonally similar, sometimes it's by a similar author, but

有時候語氣相似，有時候是相似作者寫的，但

the idea is it's sort of an explorer system built around the stuff that you save.

這個概念是圍繞著你儲存的東西建立一個探索系統。

I think that's very cool and really interesting.

And I have actually really enjoyed using Sublime to just like dump things that I like.

我其實很喜歡用 Sublime 來記錄我喜歡的東西。

I read a lot for my job and just like putting in articles that I like and quotes that I find interesting and all that stuff in there and just sort of using it as a database to find even more cool stuff has been really powerful at Sublime.

我工作需要閱讀很多東西，我喜歡把喜歡的文章和有趣的引言放進去，然後把它當成一個資料庫來尋找更多很棒的東西，這在 Sublime 上非常強大。

They're using AI to make a lot of that stuff possible.

他們利用 AI 讓很多功能得以實現。

And I think the thing that's so interesting to me about Sublime is that Sari, as you'll hear, is a very human oriented person.

我覺得 Sublime 最有趣的地方是，Sari，就像你會聽到的，是一個非常以人為本的人。

Sublime is not some like whiz bang new AI app.

Sublime 並不是一個炫技的新 AI 應用程式。

It is very like deliberately sort of quiet and relaxed and it's not a high tech feeling thing.

它非常刻意地營造出一種寧靜、放鬆的感覺，一點都不高科技。

If anything, it feels like sort of old Internet in a way.

如果說有什麼感覺的話，它在某種程度上讓人感覺像是舊網路時代。

But there's a lot of AI underneath all of that.

And I wanted to talk to Sari about how to make those two things match.

而我就是想跟 Sari 聊聊，要怎麼讓這兩者能夠契合。

How do I have a place that feels private and, and

我該如何建立一個讓人感覺是私密的、

mine and human and sort of interesting and curated and cared for when it's just, you know, chatgpt all the way down underneath?

屬於我、有人情味、經過精心策劃和呵護的地方，但底下其實都是 ChatGPT 呢？

Do those two things eventually run into each other and cause conflict?

This is all the stuff that I've been thinking about with, frankly, every product I use.

這就是我最近在使用各種產品時，一直在思考的問題。

And I think lots of developers I talk to are thinking about this.

我想我遇到的很多開發者也都在想這件事。

How do you use AI in useful ways and not just sort of shout loudly about AI to make venture capitalists want to give you more money?

我們要如何有意義地使用 AI，而不是隻是大聲宣揚 AI，來吸引創投家給更多資金？

There's a lot of that, that's fine, more power to the venture capitalist.

這有很多，這樣很好，創投家們更有動力了。

But I think the best apps are the ones that are going to figure out how to strike this balance.

但我覺得最棒的應用程式，就是那些能找到平衡點的。

And I think Sublime is actually doing it really well.

So that's what we're going to talk about.

She and I have met a few times and I'm very excited about this.

我們見過幾次面了，我對此感到非常興奮。

All of that is coming up in just a second, but

first I have to go and make sure that nothing in my Sublime library is actually going to get me in trouble.

首先我得去確認一下，我的 Sublime library 裡沒有什麼東西會惹麻煩。

In case anybody finds it after we do this episode, this is the Vergecast.

以防萬一我們做完這集後有人發現，這是 Vergecast。

Instead, you're stuck fixing bottlenecks and fighting legacy code.

結果卻卡在修復瓶頸和處理遺留程式碼。

這也是為什麼許多 Fortune 500 公司都信賴 MongoDB 來處理他們最關鍵的工作負載。

Start building@mongodb.com Build Sari Azout.

開始建構@mongodb.com Build Sari Azout。

Welcome to the Vergecast thank you, David, for having me excited to be here.

歡迎來到 Vergecast，謝謝 David，很高興能來這裡。

Siri just went off when I said that, which is just a very funny thing to have happened.

我剛才說話時 Siri 就啟動了，這實在太好笑了。

I think the place I want to start is I just want you to describe a little bit of the story of Sublime, because it's a thing I find really fascinating.

我覺得我想開始的地方，就是想請你稍微描述一下 Sublime 的故事，因為這是我覺得非常有趣的一件事。

You and I have talked about it a few times in the past, but

你我過去已經聊過幾次了，但是

for people who don't know what is Sublime and kind of, where did it come from?

對於不認識 Sublime 的人來說，它到底是什麼？又是從哪裡來的呢？

Yeah, I mean, Sublime is in a very concrete, utilitarian way.

嗯，Sublime 其實是以一種非常具體、實用的方式來說。

It's a personal knowledge management tool.

I didn't start wanting to build a personal knowledge management tool.

我一開始並不是想打造一個個人知識管理工具。

I wanted to start by building a different way of being on the Internet.

我想從打造一種不同的網路體驗開始。

And what we've built really is a way to curate and build a personal library.

而我們實際打造出來的，是一種整理和建立個人圖書館的方式。

The catch for Sublime is it's connected to other people's libraries.

Sublime 的特別之處在於它連結到別人的圖書館。

And I think that unlocks just a different experience on the Internet where you are connected to other people.

我認為這能解鎖一種不同的網路體驗，讓你能與他人連結。

fundamentally the way you're interacting with the tool is as a personal knowledge management tool and not some performance circus.

基本上你與這個工具互動的方式，是作為一個個人知識管理工具，而不是什麼炫技的表演。

One of the things I always liked about Sublime is it seems like, and

我一直很喜歡 Sublime 的一點是，它似乎，而且

I'm curious if this is your experience too, there are sort of people who get that basic activity of like, just save things that mean something to you in sort of the broadest possible way.

我很好奇你的經驗是不是也一樣，有些人就是能掌握那種基本活動，像是用最廣泛的方式保存對你有意義的東西。

Like things that make you feel something, put them in a place and trust that sort of something will come back about that.

像是讓你有所感觸的事物，把它們放在一個地方，並相信之後會有所回報。

There are people who like instinctively get that and find that activity even sort of on its own, really cathartic.

有些人就是會本能地理解這一點，並且發現這種活動本身就很有療癒感。

Just like the act of bookmarking does something for some people and then there are other people who are like, what in the hell is the point of this?

就像書籤對某些人來說有其作用一樣，而有些人則會想說，這到底有什麼意義？

I'm just creating this massive, you know, text file of nonsense that I'm never going to look at again.

我只是在創建一個龐大、你知道的，充滿我永遠不會再看的無意義文字檔。

And it really feels like you can sort the world into those two groups of people and there is nothing in between.

這感覺就像你可以把世界抽成這兩類人，中間沒有其他選項。

That said, I would argue that it's been a niche thing because the tools that serve this need don't have a big roi.

儘管如此，我認為這一直是一個小眾需求，因為滿足這種需求的工具並沒有帶來巨大的投資報酬率。

像是，儲存這個到底有什麼意義？

And I think if you experience Sublime, you save one thing and you go down a rabbit hole that is just like, you don't regret the minutes spent.

我認為如果你體驗過 Sublime，你儲存了一樣東西，然後就掉進一個無底洞，你會覺得花費的時間一點也不後悔。

It's just unlocking a different experience.

I do think a big part of it is, what's the point?

我確實認為其中一個很大的部分是「這到底有什麼意義？」

Because the ROI of that in the past has been, I'VE got a massive archive of things that I will do nothing with.

因為過去的投資報酬率是，我有一個龐大的檔案庫，但我不會用它們做任何事。

The timing that you've been building Sublime is like right next to this crazy AI boom.

你建立 Sublime 的時機，正好就在這波瘋狂的 AI 浪潮旁邊。

Did you think about this as sort of an AI adjacent product from the beginning?

你從一開始就有考慮過這是一款 AI 相關的產品嗎？

Because I think spiritually it both is and isn't in ways that I really want to talk about.

因為我覺得，從精神層面來說，它既是也不是，這是我真的很想聊聊的部分。

But were you thinking about what some of these language models might do in sort of the early days of building out this product?

但在開發這款產品的早期，你有沒有想過這些語言模型可能會做些什麼？

I think the question of what is your AI strategy or starting even with tech first is very foreign to me.

我覺得「你的 AI 策略是什麼？」這個問題，甚至從技術優先開始，對我來說非常陌生。

Like, even just companies or founders that tell me, I'm building a Web3 startup, I'm building a B2B startup that tells me nothing about whether, you know, like, it's.

就像，即使是告訴我「我正在建立一個 Web3 新創公司」、「我正在建立一個 B2B 新創公司」的公司或創辦人，這對我來說什麼都沒說明，你知道的，像是，它。

That's like a trend that is very easy to, like, mistake for a real market and a real product opportunity.

這就像是一個很容易被誤認為是真實市場和真實產品機會的趨勢。

So the way I think about it is what is a problem that I want to solve and in what ways are the current technologies available going to allow us to solve this in a better way?

所以我思考的方式是，我想要解決什麼問題？而現有的技術有哪些方式可以讓我們以更好的方式來解決這個問題？

If you think about a tool like Sublime, there's broadly speaking, three jobs to be done.

如果你想到 Sublime 這樣的工具，大概有三個要完成的任務。

We help people collect ideas, we help people connect ideas, and

我們幫助人們收集想法，我們幫助人們連結想法，然後

then we help people create with those ideas.

我們幫助人們利用這些想法來創造。

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AI 讓你大開眼界？The Vergecast 深度解析！ (A very human vision for going all-in on AI | The Vergecast)

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