Name: 英國政府最新庇護系統改革有效嗎？ | BBC Newscast (Will the UK Government's latest asylum system reforms work? | BBC Newscast)
Uploaded: 2025-11-18T17:33:57.000Z
Duration: 33 min 2 s

The UK government has unveiled a huge batch of changes to the asylum system.

英國政府揭曉了庇護系統的一系列重大變革。

情態副詞

the big one is it will make it much harder for people who come to the UK as refugees to stay in the country permanently.

但最重要的一點是，這將讓以難民身份來到英國的人更難永久居留。

Why and what could the consequences be, both practically and politically?

為什麼會這樣，以及這在實際和政治上可能會有什麼後果？

We will unpack all of it on this latest episode of the BBC's Daily News podcast Newscast.

我們將在 BBC 的最新播客 Newscast 中為大家一一解析。

Hello, it's Adam in the newscast studio and it is Chris at Westminster, and

哈囉，我是 Adam 在 Newscast 的錄音室，Chris 在西敏寺，

we'll be here for a mere 20 seconds, 7ish minutes, which seems very fleeting.

我們在這裡的時間只有短短的 20 秒，大概 7 分鐘，感覺一下就過了。

So, Chris, we had quite a lot of build up to Shabana Mahmood's big unveiling of the changes to the asylum system that the government would like to introduce.

所以 Chris，我們等了很久，終於等到 Shabana Mahmood 揭曉政府想推出的庇護系統變革。

She obviously sat down with Laura on Sunday, and

她顯然週日和 Laura 坐下來談了，

Laura and Paddy and Henry talked about a lot of the politics around it.

Laura、Paddy 和 Henry 談了很多相關的政治議題。

But today we actually saw the detail in black and white of what the Government wants to do.

但今天我們終於看到政府想做的細節，白紙黑字。

And this came with a big parliamentary moment as well from the Home secretary.

這也伴隨著內政大臣一個重要的國會時刻。

It did 88 questions her team told me she took in the House of Commons, eventually got to her feet at about a quarter to, because, as you say, there was various things going on prior to that, and

她的團隊告訴我，她在下議院回答了 88 個問題，大概差一刻鐘時終於站起來，因為，正如你所說，在那之前發生了各種事情，

left the Chamber about quarter past eight and then started doing interviews with the likes of me and Robert Peston of itv and Beth would be of sky and others at about 9 o', clock, which is a joy when you're making a piece for the 10 o' clock news.

大約八點一刻離開會議廳，然後大約九點開始接受我的、ITV 的 Robert Peston、Sky 的 Beth Rigby 等人的採訪，這對於製作十點新聞來說真是太棒了。

I mean, I think what's interesting here is that they've really.

我是說，我認為這裡有趣的是，他們真的。

In the Home Office, seem to me, the Home Office.

在我看來，在內政部，內政部。

The Home Office are always in the news, either inadvertently or advertently, and

內政部總是新聞的焦點，無論是無意中還是有意地，

for the last few days, it has been advertent.

They have been seeking to make headlines and seeking to dominate the kind of political conversation pretty much since Friday.

他們一直在尋求成為頭條新聞，並且幾乎從週五開始就一直在主導那種政治對話。

And there was a bit, actually, even before that.

And then, as you say, she was talking to Laura at the weekend, and

然後，就像你說的，她週末和 Laura 談話了，

then all of the stuff in the Commons and then talking to a load of political editors on Monday evening.

接著是下議院的所有事情，然後週一晚上和許多政治編輯們談話。

They're doing that because they know there are kind of two pillars of issues, if you like, that will be the biggest determinants of whether this government can haul itself off the canvas in terms of popularity.

他們這麼做是因為他們知道，有兩大支柱的議題，如果你喜歡的話，將是決定這個政府能否在人氣方面重新站起來的最大因素。

One is the economy, the sluggish economy.

And, you know, there'll be plenty of chat about that in the next week with the Budget coming up, and

而且，你知道，隨著預算案即將出爐，接下來一週大家會有很多關於這方面的討論，

then the Second one is migration, both legal migration and then illegal migration, and in particular, small boats.

接著是第二個議題，移民，包括合法移民和非法移民，特別是小船問題。

Can they demonstrate some sort of grip on this issue?

他們能展現出對這個議題的掌握嗎？

Now, Shabana Mahmood talks in very blunt terms and talks about her team, about how she's a minister in a hurry.

現在，Shabana Mahmood 的說法非常直白，她談到她的團隊，說她是一位急於求成的部長。

And so we've had this blitz of stuff in terms of what she's done in the last few days, and

所以我們看到她這幾天做了很多事情，

then setting out these ideas in the House of Commons on Monday to try and set up a series of new policies that she hopes will demonstrate grip.

然後在週一於下議院提出這些想法，試圖建立一系列新政策，希望能展現出掌握力。

Because she was saying to me that, in her view, I asked her what the most egregious example of the failure in the system was, and

因為她告訴我，在她看來，我問她系統中最嚴重的失敗例子是什麼，

she said, the whole thing, none of it works, it's all a failure.

她說，整件事，沒有一樣是好的，全是失敗。

So that's her kind of analysis and diagnosis.

But, you know, for this government overall, the time is kind of running, running down on being able to blame systems that you've inherited and actually you needed.

但是，你知道，對這個政府整體來說，他們能夠怪罪繼承來的系統的時間正在一點一滴流逝，而實際上他們需要。

They need to demonstrate grip of systems that they now control, which is what she hopes to be able to do.

他們需要展現出對他們現在掌控的系統的掌握力，這也是她希望能夠做到的。

And there was a lot going on in this proposal.

It's a combination of things that can be done without legislation.

其中有些事情不需要透過立法就能完成。

Quite a few things, though, do need new laws to be passed.

不過，不少事情確實需要通過新法案。

Some of it will then trickle down to be guidance for judges when they look at individual cases.

其中一些內容之後會成為法官審理個案時的指導原則。

But also, before we dive into the details, we should maybe just talk a bit, give a bit of context here.

但首先，在深入探討細節之前，我們或許應該先聊一點，提供一些背景資訊。

So this is mainly about people entering the asylum system, and

所以這主要跟進入庇護系統的人有關，

if you are then granted asylum, you become a refugee and that which is a special status in the immigration system.

如果你之後獲得庇護，你就會成為難民，這在移民系統中是一種特殊身份。

And this year there have been 111,800 people have claimed asylum and 39% of them were in small boats crossing the Channel.

而今年有 111,800 人申請庇護，其中 39% 是乘坐小船穿越英吉利海峽的。

And around about the same number, slightly less, 37% arrived by legal means, in other words, came here on a visitor's visa or a student visa, and

大約相同數量，稍微少一點，37% 則是透過合法途徑抵達，換句話說，持訪客簽證或學生簽證入境，然後

then applied for asylum, having entered the country through a sort of regular.

申請庇護，是以一種正規的方式進入這個國家。

So the small boats are often the most visible and therefore big P.

所以小船偷渡常常是最顯眼，也是以成為一個重大的 P.

Political issue around the whole question of asylum.

關於整個庇護問題的政治議題。

But as you say, There are about 4 in 10 of the applications, a significant chunk, in fact, a broadly similar chunk in proportionate terms are much less, if you like, visible in each individual instance, example of people who've arrived legally through one means or another and then have applied for asylum at the end of their visa.

但就像你說的，大約有十分之四的申請，相當大一部分，事實上，比例上差不多，但沒那麼顯眼，如果你想的話，這指的是那些透過某種方式合法入境，然後在簽證到期後申請庇護的人。

And the government clearly keen to be seen to squeeze both elements of those numbers.

政府顯然很想被看見在努力減少這兩部分的數字。

And also the vast majority of people who apply for asylum are actually granted it.

而且，申請庇護的人絕大多數其實都獲得了許可。

The system deems them to be allowed to stay here.

And therefore you get all sorts of questions asked, almost irrespective of an individual's view or instincts on the overall asylum system.

是以，你會聽到各種各樣的問題，幾乎不論個人對整個庇護系統的看法或直覺如何。

At what point are things not working here and what might be seen to be pull factors at the same time, where should the country demonstrate?

什麼時候事情在這裡行不通，同時又有哪些可能被視為吸引因素，國家應該展現什麼？

Can it be, or should it be retrospective?

這是可以的，或者應該是追溯的嗎？

But then how quickly can they change the law so that it can visibly, if you like, and

但他們又能多快地修改法律，讓它能明顯地、如果你喜歡的話，

What do they do around the European Convention on Human Rights?

他們會怎麼處理《歐洲人權公約》？

You'll have seen that the conservatives and reform advocate leaving that convention entirely, that the government says no.

你會看到，保守派和改革派主張完全退出該公約，但政府說不行。

They think they can sort of clip the wings of it rather than shooting it out of the sky.

他們認為他們可以稍微限制它的影響力，而不是直接廢除它。

They want to change the law around Article 8, which is the right to a family life, and

他們想修改關於第8條的法律，也就是家庭生活的權利，然後

then talk to other European signatories, to the ECHR, around the whole question of Article 3, around inhuman and degrading treatment.

與其他歐洲簽署國，與歐洲人權法院，就第3條，關於不人道和有辱人格的待遇的整個問題進行討論。

And you know that alongside loads of other elements that we can dive into and you may have heard at the Weekend Game Gang talking about on Newscast, at the heart of what the Home Secretary sees as having to look at every single aspect of the asylum system and basically rewrite it.

你知道，除了我們能深入探討的許多其他元素，以及你可能在 Weekend Game Gang 的 Newscast 中聽到的內容之外，內政大臣認為必須審視庇護系統的每一個面向，並徹底重寫。

Right, we're getting into the details now.

好了，我們現在要進入細節了。

And so to get a bit more insight on that, I called up Dr.

為了更深入瞭解，我聯繫了牛津移民觀察站的 Madeleine Sumption 博士，

Madeleine Sumption from the Oxford Migration Observatory, and

並且我們一起更詳細地討論了 Shabana Mahmud 今天向國會議員提出的建議。

we went through what Shabana Mahmud had proposed to MPs today in a bit more detail.

I mean, the government is presenting this as a really big change.

我的意思是，政府將此呈現為一項重大的變革。

我認為是的，這確實是一項重大的變革。

It would make the package of support that's offered to asylum seekers and the conditions they're offered to asylum seekers who are successful in their claims, the most restrictive in Europe, I think.

我認為，這將使提供給尋求庇護者以及成功申請者所獲得的支持方案和條件，成為歐洲最嚴苛的。

And it's pretty different from the status quo.

Now, obviously, this comes on the back of a few years where we had some other really big changes.

當然，這是在經歷了幾年其他重大變革之後才出現的。

So I think if you compare it to the Illegal Migration act, which was introduced under the Tories and then scrapped by this government, the Illegal Immigration act was probably more radical in the sense that it swept away the entire system.

所以，我認為如果跟保守黨推出的、後來被本屆政府廢除的《非法移民法》相比，《非法移民法》在某種程度上可能更激進，因為它廢除了整個系統。

It effectively abolished the asylum system for large groups of people using It.

它實際上廢除了針對大量使用者的庇護系統。

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英國政府最新庇護系統改革有效嗎？ | BBC Newscast (Will the UK Government's latest asylum system reforms work? | BBC Newscast)

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