Name: 什麼是「歐威爾式」的真正涵義？ | The Gray Area (What 'Orwellian' really means | The Gray Area)
Uploaded: 2025-11-18T17:28:32.000Z
Duration: 52 min 8 s

嗨，我是 Sean，Gray Area 的主持人。

She's the author of a book called Orwell's Wisdom and warnings for the 21st century.

她寫了一本叫做 Orwell's Wisdom and warnings for the 21st century 的書。

We talk about Orwell's very complicated legacy, why he will always matter, and

我們聊了 Orwell 非常複雜的傳承，為什麼他永遠重要，以及

why his name and his ideas will always be used and abused by people who do not understand what he was about.

為什麼他的名字和他的思想，總是被那些不瞭解他的人濫用。

Check it out and I will see you next week.

If I asked you to name a famous writer who manages to be both incredibly well known and universally misunderstood, who comes to mind?

如果我問你，有沒有一位作家，他很有名，但又被大家誤解，你會想到誰？

Marx and Nietzsche are obvious candidates, but

Marx 和 Nietzsche 是很明顯的答案，但

any list like this has to include George Orwell, the English journalist and essayist and the author of two of the most famous political novels of the 20th century, 1984 and Animal Farm.

任何這樣的名單都必須包含 George Orwell，這位英國記者、散文家，以及 20 世紀兩本最著名政治小說《1984》和《Animal Farm》的作者。

Whether you've read any of Orwell's work or not, you know his name and you've no doubt heard the term Orwellian used to describe people and events that are very likely contradictory.

無論你是否讀過 Orwell 的任何作品，你都知道他的名字，而且你一定聽過 Orwellian 這個詞，用來形容那些很可能自相矛盾的人事物。

Which, of course is part of the problem with Orwell.

這當然也是 Orwell 的問題所在。

He's been stretched so much that his name is now a floating signifier that conveys just enough information to the audience to suggest something vaguely meaningful, but

他的名字被過度延伸，如今成了一個浮動的符號，傳達給觀眾足夠多的資訊，暗示著某種模糊的意義，但

not enough information to truly clarify anything.

And the irony is that Orwell's greatest virtue as a writer was his clarity.

諷刺的是，Orwell 作為作家最大的優點就是他的清晰。

He wrote so as not to be misunderstood, and yet he is now perpetually misunderstood.

他的寫作是為了不被誤解，然而他現在卻總是被人誤解。

Who was George Orwell and why does he matter so much today?

喬治·歐威爾是誰？為什麼他在今天如此重要？

I'm Sean Illing and this is the gray area.

我是 Sean Illing，這裡是 Gray Area。

She's a historian at American University and the author of a new book called Orwell's Wisdom and warnings for the 21st century.

她是 American University 的歷史學家，也是一本新書 Orwell's Wisdom and warnings for the 21st century 的作者。

This is an intellectual biography, but it is not, to its credit, a hagiography.

這是一本知識分子傳記，但值得稱讚的是，它並非聖徒傳記。

Beers takes an honest look at Orwell's life, the best and the worst of it, and

Beers 誠實地審視了 Orwell 的生平，他最好和最壞的一面，

presents a three dimensional picture of who he was and what he fought for.

並呈現出一個立體的人物圖像，描繪出他是誰以及他為之奮鬥的是什麼。

That's what I wanted to explore with Beers and whether that's still how we think of him today.

這也是我想和 Beers 探討的，以及我們今天是否仍然這樣看待他。

And I'm glad you wrote a book about George Orwell, one of my heroes.

也很高興妳寫了一本關於 George Orwell 的書，他是我的英雄之一。

Who was this guy and why are we still talking about him today?

這個人是誰？為什麼我們今天還在談論他？

So those of us who have heard the word Orwellian bantered around probably remember orwell vaguely, if at all, from middle school or high school, and

所以，我們這些聽過 Orwellian 這個詞的人，可能還模糊地記得 Orwell，如果有的話，是在國中或高中時期，

And it's those two works that George Orwell, who was born in 1903 in India in the British Raj and educated very well back in England, first at prep school and then at Eton, before returning to Burma as an Imperial police officer.

而 George Orwell，他出生於 1903 年的英屬印度，在英國接受了非常好的教育，先是預備學校，然後是伊頓公學，之後回到緬甸擔任帝國警察官，就是這兩部作品。

He's written several books, including Homage to Catalonia, which is a testament of his experience fighting against fascism in the Spanish Civil War.

他寫了好幾本書，包括《向加泰隆尼亞致敬》，這是他參與西班牙內戰對抗法西斯主義經歷的證明。

He's written a critique of inequality and the Road to Wigan Pier and another book about the urban poor, down and out in Paris and London.

他寫了對不平等的批判《Wigan Pier 之路》，還有另一本關於城市貧民的書《巴黎倫敦落魄記》。

He's written about his experiences working in the Empire in both his fiction and nonfiction writing.

他在他的小說和非小說寫作中，都寫下了他在帝國工作的經歷。

So there's so much about Orwell and so much that he has to offer as a journalist and as a social investigator.

所以關於 Orwell 有好多東西，他身為記者和社會調查者，有好多東西可以給我們。

But I think the reason that people think about Orwell now, or the principal reason, is because the ward Orwellian has come back with a vengeance since the beginning of the first Trump administration, in the sense that Orwellian is in reference, really, to his writing in his final two books, animal farm in 1984, on disinformation and the manipulation of truth by those with political power.

但我想大家現在想到 Orwell，或是主要原因，是因為 Orwellian 這個詞自從川普第一任政府開始以來，又強勢回歸了，也就是說 Orwellian 指的是他最後兩本書《Animal Farm》和《1984》中，關於政治權力者散播假消息和操弄真相的寫作。

And now, the term Orwellian may be Franz Kafka, and

而現在，Orwellian 這個詞，或許還有 Franz Kafka，

the term Kafkaesque is something that has similar valence, but

還有 Kafkaesque 這個詞，意思很接近，但

there aren't that many people, Churchillian, I guess, would be another, whose names have become adjectives and who people have a ready association with, what it means to call something Orwellian.

不是有那麼多人，我想 Churchillian 算另一個，他們的名字變成了形容詞，而且大家對稱呼某件事為 Orwellian 的意思，有很清楚的連結。

But Orwell himself, as a journalist and as a novelist, had a comparatively short career, spanning basically about 15 years.

但 Orwell 本人，作為記者和小說家，他的職業生涯相對較短，大概只有 15 年。

He dies young in January 1950, only a few months after the publication of his final novel, 1984.

他英年早逝，在 1950 年 1 月過世，距離他最後一本小說《1984》出版，只有幾個月的時間。

And he's really active as a writer for the 1930s and the early 1940s, but

他主要活躍於 1930 年代和 1940 年代初期，但

during that time he puts out an amazing corpus of work that emphasizes the importance of integrity both in writing and in politics, the importance of speaking up and defending truth as you perceive it, of combating inequality, exploitation and abuses of power, and

在這段期間，他出版了驚人數量的作品，強調誠信在寫作和政治上的重要性，強調挺身而出、捍衛你所認知的真相，對抗不平等、剝削和權力濫用，

of really sort of championing the liberty of the individual against the tyranny of the State.

以及真正地為個人自由對抗國家暴政。

你提到了《1984》和《Animal Farm》。

Those are, I think, unquestionably his most famous books.

我認為這兩本無疑是他最著名的書。

If anyone knows anything about Orwell, it's probably those two books.

如果有人對 Orwell 有點認識，大概就是這兩本書了。

You argue that they don't do a great job of capturing the full breadth of Orwell's thought, but

你認為它們沒有很好地捕捉到 Orwell 思想的全部廣度，但

它們是他思想的一個很好的總結。

When you think about the totality of Orwell's thought, what springs to mind.

當你想到 Orwell 思想的整體時，你會想到什麼？

I think first and foremost, he is a writer who stands for a defense of truth in political writing and political speech, and

我認為首先也是最重要的，他是一位作家，他主張在政治寫作和政治言論中捍衛真相，並且

also just a sense of being true to your own convictions, both in your politics, but

也代表著一種忠於自己信念的精神，無論是在你的政治立場上，還是

你可以在《動物農莊》中豬的社會，或是《1984》中英社和老大哥所創造的社會裡看到這一點。

And you can see that in the critique of the Pig Society and Animal Farm or of the society created by Ingsoc and Big Brother in 1984.

這些社會不重視真相，真相被操縱以謀取當權者的利益，但

These are societies that don't place a value on truth, where truth is manipulated in the interest of those in power, but

在某種程度上，這是一種更積極地捍衛真相。

in terms of a kind of a more positive defense of truth.

我認為你在 Orwell 其他的作品中更清楚地看到了這一點，尤其是在他戰時的文章《獅鷲與獨角獸》中，但

I think you see that in other places in Orwell's writing more clearly, most particularly in his wartime essay the lion and the Unicorn, but

也在他許多短篇的報導文學中。

also in a lot of his short form journalism.

我認為當我們在 21 世紀隨意使用 Orwellian 這個詞時，我們常常忽略了一點，那就是我們主要用 Orwellian 來談論審查和壓制言論。

And I think one of the things that we tend to miss out on when we throw around the term Orwellian in the 21st century moment is we use Orwellian principally to talk about censorship and the shutting down of speech.

近年來，Josh Hawley 和 Donald Trump Jr. 最常使用這個詞。

It was used most famously in recent years by Josh Hawley And Donald Trump Jr.

在 1 月 6 日起義之後，他們聲稱 Trump 和他的支持者的觀點被一個「覺醒左派」取消了，這個左派誤解了 1 月 6 日發生的事情，而且

In the aftermath of the January 6 uprising, when they claimed that the views of Trump and his supporters were being canceled by a woke left who was misrepresenting what had happened on January 6, and

這是一種 Orwellian 式地取消右翼聲音。

that this was Orwellian cancellation of right wing voices.

But Orwell was not just an advocate for free speech, even though he was that, but

不過 Orwell 不僅是言論自由的倡導者，雖然他確實是，

He's someone who argues that you should be able to say that two plus two equals four.

他主張你應該能夠說二加二等於四。

And he argues that against those who would say that two plus two equals five.

他反駁那些說二加二等於五的人。

So it's not about the right to say whatever you want, but about the right to speak truthfully.

所以這不是關於你想說什麼的權利，而是關於說實話的權利。

He said that one of his great strengths was, and

now I'm quoting his power of facing unpleasant facts.

現在我引用他的話，面對不愉快事實的力量。

That's such an interesting phrase, the use of the word power, especially, as opposed to just saying the ability to face unpleasant facts.

這是一個很有趣的說法，特別是「力量」這個詞的使用，而不是單純說面對不愉快事實的能力。

Well, Orwell is writing in the context of the late 1930s, when the left in Britain and across the west feels this need to defend the Soviet Union, because the Soviet Union is the 1 socialist society in the west in that period.

嗯，Orwell 寫作的背景是 1930 年代後期，當時英國和西方國家的左派覺得有必要捍衛蘇聯，因為蘇聯是當時西方世界第一個社會主義國家。

And Orwell was in the awkward position of someone who identified throughout his career as a socialist and on the political left.

而 Orwell 處於一個尷尬的境地，他一生都認同自己是社會主義者，屬於政治左派。

But he was very clear eyed about the abuses of Stalinist totalitarianism and was unwilling to kind of toe the general party line in Western Europe by socialists who were Very defensive of Stalinist Russia.

但他對史達林極權主義的濫權非常清楚，而且不願像西歐的社會主義者那樣，為了捍衛史達林時期的俄羅斯而隨波逐流。

And so for him, this power of facing unpleasant facts is partially a willingness to stand up to most of his colleagues within the political left in Western Europe and call them out for their support of the Soviet Union and say that we can't be afraid that it will undermine the cause of socialism to talk about the abuses of power of this ostensibly socialist society in Russia, and

所以對他來說，這種面對不愉快事實的力量，部分體現在他願意挺身而出，對抗西歐政治左派中的大多數同事，並指出他們對蘇聯的支持，而且說我們不能害怕談論這個表面上的社會主義國家俄羅斯的濫權，這會損害社會主義的事業，

that if we are going to attain a better tomorrow, that we have to be honest about the mistakes and missteps on our own side, as well as critiquing capitalism and critiquing fascism.

而且，如果我們要實現更美好的明天，我們必須誠實面對我們自己方面的錯誤和失誤，同時也要批判資本主義和批判法西斯主義。

他對兩者都是一個直言不諱的批評者。

And I think that's where the power comes in, because you have to have a lot of political courage.

我認為這就是力量的來源，因為你需要很大的政治勇氣。

And I mean, we can see the absence of that political courage today on both sides of the spectrum.

我覺得，我們今天在光譜的兩邊都看不到這種政治勇氣。

To actually stand up against your party and say, well, I broadly agree with the position of these people on this side of the political spectrum.

挺身而出反對你的黨，說，嗯，我大致同意這個政治光譜上這些人的立場。

I am going to call out the errors within my own party in addition to critiquing my opponents.

我會在批評我的對手的同時，也指出我黨內的錯誤。

Yeah, I just, I agree with so much of that.

You know, for me, on some level, just the whole power facing thing is really just the willingness to notice when there's a conflict between what you want to be true and what's actually true, which is a very simple thing, I know, but

你知道，對我來說，某種程度上，這種面對權力的事，就是你願意去注意到，當你想要的事實和你真實面對的事實之間有衝突時，你就要去面對，我知道這聽起來很簡單，但是

And I think that is one of the many attributes about him that make him stand out.

我認為這也是他許多特質中，讓他脫穎而出的原因之一。

And he actually, in 1984, he creates this whole idea of double speak and double think, which is really the ability to hold two mutually contradictory ideas in your head at the same time, and

在《1984》裡，他創造了「雙重思想」和「雙重言語」的概念，這其實就是同時在腦中持有兩個互相矛盾的想法，並且

to speak a language that encompasses that contradiction.

用一種能涵蓋這種矛盾的語言來表達。

And in some ways, this is a criticism of his colleagues within the left, who are, on the one hand, espousing a rhetoric of equality and liberty, and

在某種程度上，這也是對他左翼同僚的一種批評，他們一方面宣揚平等和自由的言論，另一方面

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什麼是「歐威爾式」的真正涵義？ | The Gray Area (What 'Orwellian' really means | The Gray Area)

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