Masses of people rallying in support of, not the Beatles, but Luigi Mangione, the suspect in the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO.

大批民眾集會支持的不是披頭士，而是謀殺聯合健康保險公司首席執行官的嫌疑人路易吉-曼喬內。

This as he appeared in front of a judge today.

這是他今天在法官面前說的話。

Now, the case is revealing, as you well know, the public's anger towards the healthcare industry.

現在，正如你們所熟知的那樣，此案揭示了公眾對醫療行業的憤怒。

Some of the supporters carrying signs declaring, free Luigi. Others were wearing green to show solidarity with the accused killer.

一些支持者舉著 "釋放路易吉 "的牌子。還有一些人身穿綠色衣服，聲援被指控的凶手。

And inside court, Mangione was wearing a green sweater underneath a vest that appeared to be bulletproof. His ankles shackled while wearing loafers without socks.

而在法庭內，曼吉奧內穿著一件綠色毛衣，裡面是一件防彈背心。腳踝上戴著腳鐐，腳上穿著沒有襪子的休閒鞋

A judge denying a request to unshackle him.

法官拒絕了為他解開手銬的請求。

All of this was playing out in the same courtroom, can you believe it, as President Trump's hush money trial.

所有這一切都發生在同一個法庭上，你能相信嗎，就像特朗普總統的封口費審判一樣。

The spectacle overshadowing the true seriousness of this case.

這種場面掩蓋了案件的真正嚴重性。

Now, once the hearing started, prosecutors detailed the evidence that they say proves Mangione killed Brian Thompson in New York City last December.

聽證會一開始 檢察官就詳細列舉了證據 證明曼喬內去年12月在紐約殺害了布萊恩-湯普森

With me now, sketch artist Christine Cornell.

現在和我在一起的是素描藝術家克里斯汀-康奈爾。

She was in court today for Mangione's hearing.

她今天出席了曼喬內的聽證會。

Christine, as is the case in these very monumental cases, you were just feet away from the defendant, Mangione, today.

克莉絲汀，就像這些重大案件一樣 你今天離被告曼喬內只有幾步之遙

Can you describe what his demeanor was like?

你能描述一下他的舉止嗎？

You know, Mr. Mangione doesn't show an awful lot of emotional play on his face.

要知道，曼喬內先生的臉上並沒有表現出太多的感情色彩。

I mean, he has very distinct markings.

我的意思是，他有非常明顯的標記。

He kind of reminds me of a husky and he's very alert, but he's not engaging.

它讓我想起了哈士奇犬，它非常警覺，但並不引人入勝。

I did catch his eye briefly when I put my binoculars on him, which I'm sure he wasn't really enjoying.

當我把望遠鏡對準他時，我確實短暫地吸引了他的目光，我相信他並不是很喜歡這樣。

But I wanted to get those rather delicate drawing of his eyes.

但我想畫出他那雙相當精緻的眼睛。

They're elegant, his features.

他的五官很優雅。

And, you know, he's kind of pretty, but he's also a little vacant.

而且，你知道，他有點漂亮，但也有點空虛。

Did he react as the statements were being made?

他在發言時有什麼反應嗎？

Was there a moment in time that you saw his emotions go from stoic to more emotive?

是否有那麼一瞬間，你看到他的情緒從委曲求全變得更加情緒化？

Nope, no emotion at all.

不，一點感情都沒有。

He did have his neck craned around to watch the prosecutor while he talked about the, you know, quantity of evidence they had with the defense attorney interjecting.

當公訴人談到他們掌握的證據數量時，他確實伸長脖子看著公訴人，辯方律師也在一旁插話。

We haven't seen that stuff yet, sir.

我們還沒看到那東西，長官。

You know, they were basically dickering around those those little, you know, procedural type stuff.

你知道，他們基本上都在嘰嘰喳喳地討論那些小東西，你知道，程序類的東西。

But that's his face.

但那是他的臉。

Really? Well, he had a lot of supporters, frankly, a ton of supporters outside.

真的嗎？老實說，他在外面有很多支持者。

And I understand also inside the court, many of them were wearing green.

據我所知，在法庭內，很多人都穿著綠色的衣服。

They apparently to show some sort of solidarity with the alleged killer and defendant.

顯然，他們是為了聲援被指控的凶手和被告。

What was the atmosphere inside the courtroom like?

法庭內的氣氛如何？

What was the reaction when people saw him come in, particularly those who were wearing green in support?

當人們看到他進來時，尤其是那些穿著綠色衣服表示支持的人，會有什麼反應？

You know, I think that the reason they wouldn't unshackle him didn't have so much to do with the officers being worried about what he might do.

你知道，我認為他們不給他解開手銬的原因 與警官擔心他可能會做什麼並沒有太大關係。

But the supporters, I mean, all he would have to do is swing around and raise an arm and say something and you'd have a mayhem.

但那些支持者，我是說，他只要搖搖晃晃，舉起胳膊，說幾句話，就會引起一場混亂。

The only time I've ever seen people gather like fans of a defendant who's accused of something really kind of brutal, kind of, is John Gotti.

我只見過約翰-高蒂（John Gotti）這一次，人們像粉絲一樣聚集在被指控犯有某種殘忍罪行的被告身邊。

And he had a regular following who'd show up in the wee hours.

他有一群經常在凌晨出現的追隨者。

But I mean, talk about the age of social media.

但我是說，現在是社交媒體時代。

He had maybe 50 people.

他大概有 50 人。

You might have had, you know, several thousand today.

你知道，今天可能有幾千人。

When he walked in and he was visible to those who supported him and frankly, those who were in the courtroom for other reasons, did they say anything?

當他走進來時，那些支持他的人看到了他，坦白說，那些因為其他原因而在法庭上的人看到了他，他們說了什麼嗎？

Could you hear what they were saying in reaction to being around him?

你能聽到他們在他身邊的反應嗎？

I don't think there was anybody in that room that wasn't there for him.

我想房間裡沒有人不支持他。

How did the judge react to that?

法官對此有何反應？

You know, I think that the judge was a little taken aback by the whole spectacle of this.

你知道，我覺得法官對這整個場面有點吃驚。

The last time Mr. Maggio was in court, it was very small.

馬吉奧先生上次出庭時，法庭還很小。

I think I may have been the only courtroom artist there.

我想我可能是那裡唯一的法庭藝術家。

It was tiny. This time, this was an explosion.

它很小。這一次，這是一次爆炸。

I mean, he didn't even take the time to say, to ask the lawyers to stand up and say their names and present themselves.

我的意思是，他甚至沒有花時間請律師們站起來，說出他們的名字，介紹他們自己。

It was just kind of, you know, let's get through this.

這只是一種，你知道，讓我們通過這個。

And then I almost felt as if he wanted to get out of there as swift as he could, too.

然後，我幾乎覺得他也想盡快離開那裡。

The defense attorney was complaining that she hasn't had time to sit with him and be with him.

辯護律師抱怨說，她沒有時間和他坐在一起，陪伴他。

And the judge said, well, you're going to have to do it right here and now.

法官說，好吧，你必須現在就去做。

And then he left the room.

然後他離開了房間。

And when that conversation was happening.

而當對話發生時

Go ahead. So what did you say, Christine?

說吧你說什麼，克莉絲汀？

She just, his lawyer just wanted to speak to him.

她只是，他的律師只是想和他談談。

She said, I didn't get a chance to see him before this hearing.

她說，在這次聽證會之前，我沒有機會見到他。

And and the judge asked if it was possible for them to meet somewhere.

法官問他們是否有可能在某個地方見面。

And nope, the officers weren't going to have any more moving of bodies around.

不，警官們不會再有任何移動屍體的舉動了。

If they were going to talk, they were going to have to have their little private conference right there in the courtroom.

如果他們要談話，就必須在法庭上進行私人會談。

There was no special accommodations to be made.

沒有特別的便利。

Christine Cornell, always a front seat to the history.

克莉斯汀-康奈爾，總是站在歷史的前沿。

Let's not forget the seriousness of the charges he is facing.

我們不要忘記他所面臨指控的嚴重性。

Thank you so much. Thank you, ma'am.

非常感謝 Thank you so much.謝謝您，女士

I want to bring in Jeremy Saland, who is a former Manhattan prosecutor.

我想請出傑里米-薩蘭德 他是前曼哈頓檢察官

Jeremy, you know, Beatlemania as one description, people wearing green in support of obviously the Mario Bros character Luigi, apparently.

傑里米，你知道，"披頭士狂熱 "是一種描述，人們穿綠色衣服顯然是為了支持《馬里奧兄弟》中的人物路易吉。

But half a million dollars, a ton of fans today, a sign that says jury nullification.

但今天有50萬美金，一大堆粉絲，一個寫著陪審團無效的牌子。

Should prosecutors be nervous about even jury selection?

檢察官是否應該為挑選陪審團而緊張？

Well, we know and you know from your experience, all you need is one.

我們知道，根據你的經驗，你只需要一個。

You don't need to necessarily get the acquittal. You need one for the hung to hang that jury.

你不一定要得到無罪釋放。你需要一個懸而未決的結果來絞死陪審團。

But jury nullification is a concern, but within reason, too, because you find that jury and you find those people.

但陪審團無效是一個問題，但也在情理之中，因為你找到了陪審團，也就找到了那些人。

You can find it for Donald Trump. You can find it for Eric Adams.

你可以為唐納德-特朗普找到它。你可以為埃裡克-亞當斯找到它。

If it ever gets there, you can find it for any case.

如果它到了那裡，你可以在任何情況下找到它。

If you do your due diligence and you really make sure you do your homework with that jury selection.

如果你盡職盡責，真正確保在挑選陪審團時做足功課。

I still think you've got to try to push if you're Karen Agnifilo for some sort of infirmity, meaning you're not guilty by reason of insanity, very difficult, extreme emotional disturbance, which is even an elevated version of that.

我仍然認為，如果你是凱倫-阿格尼菲洛，你必須嘗試推動某種虛弱，這意味著你無罪的原因精神錯亂，非常困難，極端情緒障礙，這甚至是一個版本的提升。

But jury nullification is certainly going to come into play because all you need is one.

但陪審團無效肯定會發揮作用，因為你只需要一個陪審團。

You know, speaking of his attorney, Karen Agnifilo, she said that she's still trying to figure out if prosecutors will even pursue the death penalty in this case.

說到他的律師凱倫-阿格尼菲洛 她說她還在想檢察官是否會對此案判處死刑

I wonder, will that decision change maybe how she defends him? And if so, how?

我想知道，這個決定是否會改變她為他辯護的方式？如果會，怎麼變？

Well, it's a good question because in New York, that's not when I say New York, New York state, that's not going to happen.

這是個好問題，因為在紐約，當我說紐約，紐約州時，這是不可能發生的。

The federal government, the U.S. Attorney's Office out of the Southern District can pursue that.

聯邦政府、南區聯邦檢察官辦公室可以對此進行追究。

But we also know the Manhattan case is going first in time.

但我們也知道，曼哈頓的案件在時間上是先行的。

My assumption, and I can't tell you what's going to happen, but is if there is a conviction on the state level before Judge Caro, who's a sitting and presiding judge, and they get a murder one conviction, which is going to be a hard lift in my opinion, but even a murder two, which can be up to a life sentence.

我不能告訴你會發生什麼，但我的假設是，如果州一級的卡洛法官（他是現任主審法官）判定他們犯有一級謀殺罪，在我看來，這將是一個艱難的舉動，但即使是二級謀殺罪，也可能被判處終身監禁。

I don't know whether or not the Southern District continues with that case to redo this again solely to get the death penalty.

我不知道南區法院是否會繼續審理此案，再次重審，完全是為了獲得死刑。

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. But that still does not change that basic issue here, at least on the state level for now, which is if we can get this extreme emotional distress or that other issue of the infirmity, we can get this to a manslaughter in the first degree, which doesn't give a life sentence.

也許有，也許沒有。但這仍然不能改變這裡的基本問題，至少在目前的州一級，如果我們能得到這種極端的精神痛苦或其他虛弱的問題，我們就可以把它變成一級過失殺人罪，這不會讓人被判終身監禁。

Yeah, I still think you have to have that sort of attack of the case other than the initial things, which is the search is bad.

是的，我仍然認為，除了最初的事情，你必須對案件進行這種攻擊，也就是搜查是不好的。

Any statements that were obtained were done unlawfully, things like that.

獲取的任何證詞都是非法的，諸如此類。

The burden still is in the prosecution, but certainly there is a weight to pull if you're the defense in a case so public.

控方仍有責任，但如果你是如此公開案件的辯方，當然也有責任。

Jeremy Salan, thank you so much. My pleasure.

傑里米-薩蘭，非常感謝。我的榮幸