A woman is having a vagina, oh well, actually, no, is whatever you want to think of the woman.

女人就是有陰道，哦，好吧，其實不是，是你想怎麼想就怎麼想的女人。

There's trans men who are now capable of giving birth.

變性人現在也能生育了。

Does questioning make you transphobic?

質疑是否會讓你產生變性恐懼症？

I'm homophobic, I'm transphobic.

我恐同，我恐變。

Like, why are you asking these questions right now type thing?

比如，你現在為什麼要問這些問題？

So today I asked about trans athletes.

所以今天我問到了變性運動員。

Challenge each person with questions the other side may ask.

用對方可能提出的問題來挑戰每個人。

So let's see what they have to say.

讓我們看看他們怎麼說。

Should trans athletes compete against biological women?

變性運動員是否應該與親生女性競爭？

People think that they're going to beat them, then they're probably not the best for that competition.

如果人們認為自己能打敗他們，那麼他們可能就不是這場比賽的最佳人選。

That's like saying there's like 10 bears that are all fighting each other and then it's like, wait, let's bring in this one T-Rex and then let's add that in and let's see how that kind of goes.

這就好比說，有 10 頭熊在互相廝殺，然後，等等，讓我們把這頭霸王龍帶進來，再把它加進來，看看會發生什麼。

And what happens is the T-Rex just destroys them.

然後霸王龍就把它們消滅了。

So trans people are T-Rexes?

所以變性人就是霸王龍？

I mean, you can say that.

我是說，你可以這麼說。

Women's sports is pretty self-descriptive.

女子體育是非常自我的描述。

Women compete against women.

婦女與婦女競爭。

No matter how many surgeries a woman's body is a woman's body, you can't really change that.

無論做了多少手術，女人的身體就是女人的身體，你無法真正改變這一點。

You get on hormone therapy, it does change the hormones within your body.

接受激素治療後，體內的激素會發生變化。

Is it classified as females they should be able to compete against females?

它們是否被歸類為女性，應該能夠與女性競爭？

What do I actually think?

我到底是怎麼想的？

Yeah.

是啊

Women should compete against women and transgenders should compete against transgenders.

婦女應該與婦女競爭，變性人應該與變性人競爭。

Okay.

好的

What do you believe in?

你相信什麼？

I got my own problems.

我有我自己的問題。

I was in the military.

我當過兵。

Was it fair for a male to do the female PT test?

由男性進行女性 PT 測試是否公平？

The woman's PT, like a lower standard?

婦女的 PT，就像一個較低的標準？

Significantly lower because a female can only do so much.

大大降低，因為女性只能做這麼多。

I do play men's volleyball though, collegiately.

不過，我在大學裡打的是男子排球。

But before we continue, I hope Dan Weil is not the only one confused.

但在我們繼續之前，我希望丹-威爾不是唯一一個感到困惑的人。

I hope you don't mind me asking, but were you born a biological male?

我希望你不介意我這麼問，但你生來就是男性嗎？

I'm non-binary, so I can be female as a gender and my sex can be male.

我是非二元性別，所以我的性別可以是女性，也可以是男性。

Whatever feels best for the day.

只要當天感覺最好就行。

How about between Monday and Friday?

週一至週五如何？

Monday and Friday, definitely see her at my job.

週一和週五，肯定會在我工作的地方見到她。

Just depends on the vibe.

這取決於氛圍。

Depends, yeah, yeah.

要看情況，是的，是的。

On this channel, we explore the unfamiliar.

在這個頻道中，我們探索陌生的事物。

It gives us only through genuine conversations that we can change our perspective.

只有通過真誠的對話，我們才能改變自己的觀點。

But will people be too afraid to speak their truth?

但是，人們會害怕說出自己的真實想法嗎？

And with all the controversy, will I be demonetized or even worse, canceled like Chappelle?

面對如此多的爭議，我是否會像查普爾一樣被 "妖魔化"，甚至被取消資格？

Bro, chill.

兄弟，冷靜點。

Ain't no one canceling you with no subscriber had asked.

沒人會在沒有用戶要求的情況下取消你的服務。

I guess we go and see.

我想我們走著瞧吧。

What is a woman then?

那麼女人是什麼？

Anyone who identifies as such.

任何人都可以這樣認定。

Just somebody who feels comfortable within femininity.

只是一個在女性氣質中感到自在的人。

I don't even want to say femininity because he goes beyond that.

我甚至不想說女性氣質，因為他超越了女性氣質。

I'm more of a logical person.

我更注重邏輯。

Kind of actually take that weird Jordan Peterson type stuff.

有點像喬丹-彼得森那種奇怪的人。

Just believing in yourself.

相信自己

And actually affect that towards like gender.

實際上，這也會影響到性別等方面。

Maybe let's take like a recent controversial issue like abortion.

也許我們可以拿最近一個有爭議的問題，比如墮胎。

Heard women say, hey, no one should be making laws about us.

聽到婦女們說，嘿，沒有人應該為我們制定法律。

In that instance, it seems like a woman is someone who is able to have a baby.

在這種情況下，女人似乎就是能生孩子的人。

Does that constitute a woman or would you still stick with your definition?

這算不算女人，還是你仍然堅持你的定義？

A uterus.

子宮

Would it like make you a woman?

它會讓你變成女人嗎？

I feel like there's so many other parts that are so much more important than just that.

我覺得還有很多比這更重要的部分。

Vagina considers a woman.

陰道被認為是女人。

But if you have like the long hair, if you have the nails.

但是，如果你有一頭長髮，如果你有指甲。

So I think those are pretty big differences, right?

是以，我認為這些差異很大，對嗎？

Because I could put on nails and hair.

因為我可以做指甲和頭髮。

But if I identified as a woman, would that make me a woman?

但如果我認定自己是女人，那我就成了女人嗎？

Yeah.

是啊

Is there any scientific definitions or is it just the words become true?

是否有科學的定義，或者只是 "言之成理"？

No one decides to become a woman.

沒有人決定成為女人。

So no one just wakes up and is like, oh, I feel like being a woman.

所以，沒有人會一覺醒來就覺得，哦，我覺得自己是個女人了。

There are tons of thoughts, decisions, and even social repercussions.

有數不清的想法、決定，甚至社會反響。

Like this entire line of questioning that come with coming out as a woman.

就像女性出櫃後的一系列問題一樣。

But wouldn't that be kind of ignoring some sort of biological, I don't know, realities?

但是，這樣做是不是有點忽視了某種生物，我不知道，現實？

I think that everybody has their own biological reality.

我認為，每個人都有自己的生理現實。

And that's how the world has always worked.

世界一直就是這樣運轉的。

But this world is changing every fucking day.

但這個世界每天都在發生變化。

And you just got to keep up with the new time.

你必須跟上新時代的步伐。

Are you straight by chance?

你是異性戀嗎？

I am, yeah.

是的

You identify as straight and you identify as a male?

你認為自己是異性戀者，你認為自己是男性？

Yeah.

是啊

So not everybody's going to follow what your path is.

所以，不是每個人都會走你的路。

And some people have their own path.

有些人有自己的道路。

And sometimes we just weren't born with that knowledge because we didn't get taught that as children.

有時，我們生來就不具備這種知識，因為我們在孩提時代沒有接受過這方面的教育。

Why has it changed over the last few years?

為什麼過去幾年發生了變化？

There's trans men who are now capable of giving birth.

變性人現在也能生育了。

Whatever makes someone feel better at night and doesn't hurt somebody else,

只要能讓人晚上好受些，又不傷害別人，就可以了、

I don't think should matter to anybody.

我認為這對任何人都無關緊要。

Okay.

好的

So then what will the other side say?

那麼對方會怎麼說呢？

Okay.

好的

In your mind, do you think there are more than two genders?

在你心目中，是否認為性別不止兩種？

Yes.

是的。

I couldn't identify them all for you, but...

我無法一一為你辨認，但...

I'm an old school.

我是一個老派的人。

So if I'm growing up, I don't know if I'm a man or a woman.

所以，如果我長大了，我不知道自己是男人還是女人。

Again, I think I decided that I'm an alien.

我想我又一次認定自己是外星人了。

Do you believe me?

你相信我嗎？

If you don't accept that I'm an alien, then you're wrong.

如果你不承認我是外星人，那你就錯了。

And that just doesn't make logical sense.

這在邏輯上是說不通的。

So you can have your own opinion, your own thoughts, but I think there's one or the other.

是以，你可以有自己的觀點和想法，但我認為二者缺一不可。

Outside of sport, I don't really think it matters.

在體育之外，我覺得這並不重要。

So obviously both sides have opinions, but do both sides have solutions?

顯然，雙方都有自己的觀點，但雙方都有解決方案嗎？

What do you think is the solution?

您認為該如何解決？

Do you think trans athletes should have their own league?

你認為變性運動員應該有自己的聯賽嗎？

Do you think that sports should be gender neutral?

您認為體育運動應該不分性別嗎？

Because I've seen some females out there that can kick any guy's ass.

因為我見過一些女人能把男人打得落花流水。

I mean, look at fucking Ronda Rousey.

我的意思是，看看該死的隆達-羅西（Ronda Rousey）。

She could probably take all her asses up at once.

她也許可以一次把她所有的屁股都翹起來。

I don't doubt that at all.

我對此毫不懷疑。

But do you think she'll be able to take a professional male UFC fighter?

但你認為她能戰勝 UFC 職業男選手嗎？

I mean, look at her.

我是說，看看她。

That bitch is vicious.

那婊子太惡毒了

You know what I mean?

你明白我的意思嗎？

Honestly, I feel like you could beat my ass with those, honestly.

老實說，我覺得你可以用這些打我的屁股，真的。

Maybe I'll give somebody a black eye with these.

也許我會用這些給別人一個黑眼圈。

Some women probably think that they're faster than men, and some men probably think that they do way better in a female.

有些女性可能認為自己比男性快，有些男性可能認為自己在女性中表現得更好。

Or I'm trying to think of one that typically females are in.

或者說，我在想一個通常由女性參加的節目。

Ooh, cheerleading.

哦，啦啦隊

Yeah, I think that's the only way you could do it without pissing people off.

是的，我認為只有這樣做才不會惹惱別人。

Should our priority be to not piss people off?

我們的首要任務是否應該是不惹惱別人？

Yeah, that is tricky.

是的，這很棘手。

I guess you have to choose who you want to piss off.

我想你必須選擇你想惹惱的人。

Because then you create more division, right?

因為這樣會造成更多的分裂，對嗎？

And you say, oh, well, we're going to make this only.

然後你說，哦，好吧，我們只做這個。

But then it does make it inclusive for them if that's what they want to do.

但是，如果他們想這樣做的話，這確實會讓他們感到很包容。

Will there even be enough to form a league?

是否足夠組成一個聯盟？

Not necessarily.

不一定。

But I think if we're going to talk about integration, people of color being integrated into our schools, our society wasn't normalized until we talked about it.

但我認為，如果我們要討論融合問題，有色人種融入學校的問題，在我們討論這個問題之前，我們的社會並沒有正常化。

So trans is one of those topics right now that we just have to normalize.

是以，變性是我們現在必須使之正常化的話題之一。

It's not going to work two or three times as hard to try to compete against someone naturally born as a male.

要想與天生為男性的人競爭，付出兩三倍的努力也是徒勞。

Which does bring up something that no one wants to talk about.

這確實引出了一件大家都不想談的事。

Are trans women taking away women's rights?

變性婦女是否剝奪了婦女的權利？

Because it wasn't until 50 years ago when Title IX granted more equal access to women in sports.

因為直到 50 年前，"第九章 "才賦予女性在體育運動中更平等的機會。

But today, when a trans woman receives a roster spot, is it denying biological women's opportunities?

但今天，當變性女性獲得一個名冊位置時，是否剝奪了生理女性的機會？

If there are biological advantages, more times than not, is it denying opportunities to win?

如果有生物優勢，更多的時候是不是剝奪了獲勝的機會？

I think you have to ask that population.

我認為你必須問這個問題。

If only I knew someone who was trans and also an athlete.

要是我認識一個變性人，而且還是運動員就好了。

I think someone who is prepubescent and is on hormones before developing natural testosterone, they're not as strong as me.

我認為，如果一個人在青春期前就開始服用荷爾蒙，還沒有形成自然的睪丸激素，那麼他就不會像我這麼強壯。

So should there be an age cut off then?

那麼，是否應該有一個年齡限制呢？

Yes, their estrogen and testosterone levels have to be tested before competing.

是的，比賽前必須檢測她們的雌激素和睪酮水準。

If I'mma be real, I didn't expect that answer.

說實話，我沒想到會是這樣的答案。

And that even with hormone therapy, when you transition matters.

即使使用激素療法，何時轉型也很重要。

So let's explore further on these advantages.

讓我們進一步探討這些優勢。

Do you think that trans women have any sort of advantage against biological women when it comes to sports?

你認為變性女性在體育運動中與生理女性相比有任何優勢嗎？

No.

不

People can train and become professionals in whatever sport that they want to do, and you have the same ability to do that.

人們可以在任何他們想做的運動中訓練併成為專業人士，你也有同樣的能力做到這一點。

Some people grow muscle faster than others, and that has nothing to do with your general.

有些人長肌肉的速度比其他人快，這與你的體質無關。

In general, do you think men and women have physical differences?

一般來說，您認為男性和女性在生理上有差異嗎？

I think there are physical differences across the plane.

我認為飛機之間存在物理差異。

We have differences.

我們有分歧。

We're both women.

我們都是女人

We have differences.

我們有分歧。

We're both women.

我們都是女人

Yeah.

是啊

There could be biological advantages to it, but at what point is that measure quantifiable?

這可能有生物學上的優勢，但這種衡量標準在什麼時候可以量化呢？

A basketball player is scoring 500 points a game.

一名籃球運動員每場比賽得到 500 分。

I would say that would go into more of the skill than rather than just hormonal influence.

我想說的是，這更多的是一種技能，而不僅僅是荷爾蒙的影響。

As long as they're on the proper treatment, like HRT,

只要她們接受了適當的治療，比如激素治療、

I actually think at that point it becomes a disadvantage.

實際上，我認為在這一點上，它變成了一種劣勢。

I am also on estrogen.

我也在服用雌激素。

Like, I lost a lot of that muscle.

比如，我失去了很多肌肉。

Gained a lot of fatigue.

增加了很多疲勞。

When I used to play soccer and I felt like it was, like, better.

我以前踢足球的時候，感覺踢得更好。

I felt like I could challenge myself more.

我覺得我可以挑戰自己更多。

It said that it made you better.

它說，它讓你變得更好。

Are you saying that men have an advantage over women when it comes to sports?

你是說在體育方面，男性比女性更有優勢？

No, I don't think so.

不，我不這麼認為。

There's, like, ways in which that men and women can learn from each other in sports.

比如，在體育運動中，男女可以相互學習。

I guess, but could that be considered a bit unfair for biological women?

我想是的，但這會不會被認為對生理上的女性有點不公平？

I don't think so.

我不這麼認為。

Do you know who LeBron James is?

你知道勒布朗-詹姆斯是誰嗎？

Yeah.

是啊

So he's 6'8", 280 pounds.

他身高6英尺8英寸，體重280磅。

What if he became a trans woman and competed against WNBA players?

如果他成為一名變性女性，並與 WNBA 球員競爭呢？

Would that be something that the WNBA players should just get over?

難道 WNBA 球員們就應該忘掉這一切嗎？

Like, she would have an advantage.

比如，她會有優勢。

At the same time, I don't know, I feel like they could figure it out.

同時，我也不知道，我覺得他們能想出辦法來。

He probably would be in a league with similarly stacked women.

他可能會和同樣身材的女人在一起。

There are 6'0 plus women who weigh a lot, who have a lot of musculature, and probably they'd be playing in the same league.

有些 6 英尺 0 多的女性體重很大，肌肉也很發達，她們可能會在同一個聯賽中打球。

I think it would just depend on the sport.

我認為這取決於運動項目。

I guess what would be a sport where it would be an equal playing field?

我想，什麼才是平等競爭的運動呢？

I haven't really thought too much about it.

我還沒想太多。

I think in swimming it's possible because they're likely to be more muscular.

我認為在游泳中是有可能的，因為他們的肌肉可能更發達。

And it's something that's actually happened.

這也是真實發生過的事情。

Leah Thomas was a swimmer at UPenn who started her collegiate career competing on the men's swim team.

利亞-托馬斯（Leah Thomas）是賓夕法尼亞大學的一名游泳運動員，她的大學生涯是從男子游泳隊開始的。

But during Leah's junior year, she started hormone therapy.

但在莉婭大三時，她開始接受激素治療。

Transitioned to be happy.

轉型是為了快樂

Previously, Leah was ranked 65th in the men's 500-yard freestyle.

此前，莉亞在男子 500 碼自由泳比賽中排名第 65 位。

But as a woman?

但作為女人呢？

Leah Thomas pulling away over the final 150 meters wins the NCAA championship.

莉亞-托馬斯（Leah Thomas）在最後 150 米的比賽中拔得頭籌，贏得 NCAA 冠軍。

She ranks first after winning the national championship.

她在獲得全國冠軍後排名第一。

It's controversial to even question this, but it's reports of competition.

甚至質疑這一點都是有爭議的，但這是關於競爭的報道。

So to avoid falling behind, more programs start exclusively recruiting trans athletes.

是以，為了避免落後，越來越多的項目開始專門招收變性運動員。

You know, complete what I signed up for.

你知道的，完成我的使命。

It's something the World Swimming Organization has noticed.

世界游泳組織已經注意到了這一點。

New rules will now only allow athletes who have transitioned before the age of 12 to compete in women's events.

現在，新規則只允許 12 歲前轉性的運動員參加女子項目的比賽。

So the more controversial a topic, the more discussions we need.

是以，越是有爭議的話題，我們就越需要討論。

I'm a big soccer fan.

我是一個超級足球迷。

I think women's soccer and men's soccer are becoming competitive to the point where some of them are passing the same records at the same time.

我認為，女子足球和男子足球的競爭正變得越來越激烈，以至於有些比賽同時通過了相同的記錄。

I have to disagree.

我不同意。

Because I have personal experiences with this.

因為我有這方面的親身經歷。

When I was on a U16 soccer team, we played the Portland Thorns.

當我還是 U16 足球隊隊員時，我們曾與波特蘭荊棘隊交手。

So they were the women's champions of that specific year.

是以，她們是那一年的女子冠軍。

So they have Alex Morgan, a bunch of these Olympic high-level athletes.

是以，他們有亞歷克斯-摩根（Alex Morgan），有一群奧運高水平運動員。

We killed them 6-1, and we were 15.

我們以 6 比 1 擊敗了他們，當時我們只有 15 歲。

A personal experience like that only goes so far.

這樣的親身經歷只能到此為止。

You can have outliers.

你可以有異常值。

Because we're seeing individual women break certain records and all that.

因為我們看到個別女性打破了某些記錄，等等。

Against other women.

與其他女人作對

It is against other women, but we are also seeing those numbers match very closely to male numbers.

這是針對其他女性的，但我們也看到這些數字與男性的數字非常接近。

But don't you think numbers are always relative, right?

但你不覺得數字總是相對的嗎？

Like, let's say if I joined an 8-year-old league, I'm going to score 1,000 goals.