I think it's safe to say that that's probably how the majority of people would experience that.

我想可以肯定地說，大多數人都會有這樣的體驗。

You do write about a fellow in your book who maybe took the cold in his context, it might've been the lesser of two evils, right?

你在書中確實寫到過一個人，他可能是在兩害相權取其輕的情況下接受了寒冷，對嗎？

Because ultimately this became, I think, a more well-adapted coping mechanism to an otherwise maladaptive addiction.

因為最終，我認為這成了一種更適應於其他適應不良的成癮的應對機制。

Would you say that's fair?

你覺得這樣公平嗎？

I do.

我是這麼想的。

I agree with you.

我同意你的觀點。

This was an individual addicted to alcohol and cocaine who got into recovery, experienced a lot of dysphoria, and discovered that taking an ice by a trainer or a coach actually made him high.

這是一個酗酒和吸食可卡因上癮的人，他進入康復期後，出現了很多焦慮症，並發現由訓練員或教練提供的冰塊實際上會讓他興奮。

It gave him the kind of response that he often got from drugs.

這給了他一種經常從毒品中得到的反應。

So he began doing daily ice-cold showers and then over time got himself a cooler and would submerse himself in ever-colder temperatures and then got a motor to circulate the water.

於是，他開始每天洗冰冷的淋浴，後來又給自己買了一個冷卻器，把自己浸泡在越來越冷的水中，然後又買了一個馬達來循環水。

So he was breaking the ice off in the morning.

所以，他在早上就把冰打破了。

At some point, kind of realized, oh, wait a minute, I think my tendency to take things to extreme may be operating here.

在某一時刻，我意識到，哦，等一下，我覺得我把事情想得太極端的傾向可能在這裡起作用了。

But yes, absolutely, I agree with you.

是的，我完全同意你的觀點。

Ultimately, this was a healthy coping strategy.

歸根結底，這是一種健康的應對策略。

And ultimately, which really speaks to what is a healthy coping strategy, it's something that we also do with other people.

歸根結底，這是一種健康的應對策略，我們也會對其他人這樣做。

So he started doing it with his family, with social groups.

於是，他開始和家人、社會團體一起這樣做。

People would come over for ice-cold water bath parties.

人們會過來參加冰水浴派對。

Much better than having people over to snort some lines or whatever the case may be.

這比請人過來吸幾口毒或什麼的要好得多。

So yes, and we have lots of patients who, when they get into recovery from drugs and alcohol, will often discover sports and endurance athletes in order so that they can still have that striving and that goal and the endorphins.

所以，是的，我們有很多病人，當他們從毒品和酒精中恢復過來時，往往會發現體育和耐力運動員，以便他們仍然可以有這樣的奮鬥目標和內啡肽。

We just have to make sure they don't continue to do it to the point of personal injury.

我們只是要確保他們不會繼續這樣做，以至於造成人身傷害。

I discovered something several years ago, which was if I took an ice-cold shower when I was very upset, angry, the mood would reverse quite quickly.

幾年前，我發現了一件事，那就是如果我在非常沮喪、憤怒的時候洗一個冰涼的淋浴，情緒就會很快逆轉。

And I kind of attributed that to stimulation of the vagus nerve.

我認為這是因為迷走神經受到了刺激。

Again, my head had to be immersed in cold water.

我的頭不得不再次浸入冷水中。

It could have even presumably been dipping my head in a cold water, sort of stimulating the dive reflex.

甚至有可能是我把頭浸入冷水中，刺激了下潛反射。

But like others who enjoy cold plunging, which I do very, very much, I would completely share that experience.

不過，和其他喜歡冷水浴的人一樣，我也非常非常喜歡，我會完全分享這種體驗。

It is a absolutely mood-lifting experience.

這絕對是一次令人心情愉悅的體驗。

And when people ask me, which I get all the time, is cold plunging kind of an elixir of longevity?

當人們問我，冷水浴是不是長壽的靈丹妙藥？

Having looked at the data very carefully, I can say that the answer appears unlikely.

在仔細研究了數據之後，我可以說答案似乎不太可能。

I see no evidence that cold immersion alters any of the hallmarks of aging, with the one possible exception being a reduction in inflammation.

我沒有看到任何證據表明冷浸會改變衰老的任何特徵，唯一可能的例外是發炎的減輕。

But that's never translated to a clinical benefit vis-a-vis disease in the way that I do think that there is benefit to sauna, right?

但這從未轉化為對疾病的臨床益處，而我認為三溫暖確實有益處，對嗎？

So I do think if you look at the sauna literature and run that same Bradford Hill criteria, along with the experimental data which are included, that there really is probably causality between the benefits of sauna and disease prevention.

是以，我認為，如果你查閱三溫暖文獻，並採用同樣的布拉德福德-希爾標準，再加上所包含的實驗數據，三溫暖的益處與疾病預防之間很可能存在因果關係。

So again, I don't see that with cold, but my use of it personally just stems from the mood elevation.

是以，我再次強調，我並不覺得感冒有這種症狀，但我個人使用感冒藥只是因為它能提升情緒。

So believing that it has no benefit on my ability to reduce the risk of cancer, heart disease, or dementia, just the mood elevation alone for me seems to be reason enough.

是以，我相信它對降低癌症、心臟病或痴呆症的風險沒有任何益處，但對我來說，僅僅是情緒的提升似乎就足夠了。

So I enjoyed the story of that gentleman.

所以我很喜歡這位先生的故事。

Yeah, yeah.

是啊，是啊。

Yeah, that's interesting.

是的，這很有趣。

I didn't know that about the data with sauna or even longevity relationship with ice-cold water plunges.

我不知道三溫暖的數據，甚至不知道冰水浸泡與長壽的關係。

But in terms of a mood modulator and a replacement behavior, because I do think that ultimately we are strivers, right?

但就情緒調節器和替代行為而言，因為我認為我們最終都是奮鬥者，對嗎？

We want to experience intense emotions, and it's not that we can just sort of not have goals and not have emotions.

我們想要體驗強烈的情感，並不是說我們就可以沒有目標，沒有情感。

We want that kind of intensity.

我們要的就是這種強度。

And certainly many of my patients have reported similar types of positive responses to ice-cold water plunges.

當然，我的許多病人也報告說，他們對冰水暴跌有類似的積極反應。

Which by the way, I don't notice with sauna.

順便說一句，我在三溫暖時並沒有注意到這一點。

So with extreme heat, which I also enjoy greatly, it's a different sensation.

是以，我也非常喜歡極熱，但這是一種不同的感覺。

And I'm curious, do you think that there's something about cold that produces more pain?

我很好奇，你是否認為寒冷會產生更多的痛苦？

I mean, I guess it does feel much more painful.

我的意思是，我想這確實讓人感覺更痛苦。

Is it simply come down to the pain?

難道僅僅是因為疼痛嗎？

I don't think we know.

我想我們不知道。

I do think that the immediate response is going to be some kind of hormetic response, hormesis being this Greek term that means to set in motion or setting into motion our own regulatory healing response in response to injury.

我確實認為，直接反應將是某種荷爾蒙反應。"荷爾蒙反應 "是一個希臘術語，意思是啟動或啟動我們自身的調節性癒合反應，以應對損傷。

And the branch of science called hormesis is looking at the ways in which toxic or noxious stimuli actually makes us more resilient over the long run.

被稱為 "荷爾蒙發生學 "的科學分支正在研究有毒或有害刺激如何使我們長期保持更強的復原力。

So yes, I think that it's an immediate hormetic response.

所以是的，我認為這是一種直接的荷爾蒙反應。

And let me just say, we see this being beneficial not just in people struggling with addiction or looking for alternative sources of dopamine, but also when people get immediately dysregulated.

我想說的是，我們發現這不僅對與毒癮作鬥爭或尋找多巴胺替代來源的人有益，而且對立即出現失調的人也有益。

So you noted that when you get angry, it's helpful.

所以你指出，當你生氣時，它是有幫助的。

So when we have patients who are very dysregulated, overwhelmed by their emotions, can't re-regulate, we say stick your face in a nice cold water bath, plunge your hands in a nice cold water bath.

是以，當我們遇到情緒極度失調、不堪重負、無法重新調節的病人時，我們會說，把你的臉放在冷水裡泡一泡，把你的手放在冷水裡泡一泡。

And it really, really works for some people.

對某些人來說，這真的非常有效。

There's also interesting work looking at cold more broadly and what it does to neurons.

還有一些有趣的研究更廣泛地探討了寒冷及其對神經元的影響。

And it turns out that cold is one of the most potent stimuli for neurogenesis.

而事實證明，寒冷是對神經發生最有力的刺激之一。

So very interesting looking at, like, mice brains after exposing the mouse to extreme cold or the effect of hibernation in extreme cold.

是以，研究小鼠在極度寒冷環境下的大腦或在極度寒冷環境下冬眠的影響是非常有趣的。

And finding that cold initially causes a sort of, like, not neuronal death, but if you look at the brain slices, it looks almost like these dendritic, you know, tree-like neuronal structures sort of die out, you know, in response to cold.

研究發現，寒冷最初導致的不是神經元死亡，但如果你觀察大腦切片，就會發現這些樹枝狀的神經元結構，你知道，樹狀神經元結構是對寒冷的反應。

But then very quickly afterwards, you get a spring-like regrowth, an amazing neurogenesis.

但之後很快，你就會得到春天般的再生，一種驚人的神經發生。

So who knows?

誰知道呢？

Maybe the repetitive use of cold on some level is causing or facilitating human neurogenesis as well.

也許在某種程度上，反覆使用寒冷也會導致或促進人類的神經發生。

I don't know.

我不知道。

I would love, though, to see more broadly in the field of neuroscience, people look at this concept of drug of choice because it's so interesting.

不過，我很希望在神經科學領域看到更多的人關注 "選擇藥物 "這一概念，因為它太有趣了。

Cold, for example, does absolutely nothing for me.

例如，寒冷對我來說完全沒有任何作用。

I don't enjoy the experience, but I also don't get benefit afterward.

我不享受這種經歷，但事後也得不到好處。

I sure wish I did because it's a nice, easily accessible kind of a tool.

我當然希望我有這樣的工具，因為它是一種很好、很容易獲得的工具。

But for many people, including you, it's very potent and that's great.

但對包括你在內的許多人來說，它非常有效，這很好。