Brian, who have you talked to and what are they saying about him?

布萊恩，你和誰談過，他們對他的評價如何？

Right, Jake, we've been coming through this area north of Baltimore, the suburbs here, and talking to people who know the Mangione family worked for them.

傑克，我們一直在巴爾的摩北部的郊區 和曼喬內家族的人交談 他們知道曼喬內家族為他們工作

And we're getting this portrait of a family with enormous wealth, influence, and power.

我們看到的是一個擁有鉅額財富、影響力和權力的家族。

Right behind me is the Hayfields Country Club.

我身後就是 Hayfields 鄉村俱樂部。

This is one of at least two golf courses that the Mangione family owns.

這是曼喬內家族擁有的至少兩個高爾夫球場之一。

There are exclusive properties on these grounds right here, properties that we are not being allowed access to.

就在這片土地上，有一些獨一無二的財產，是不允許我們進入的。

There are security personnel keeping us out of here.

有安保人員把我們擋在外面。

So this family, again, has enormous influence in this community.

是以，這個家族在這個社區同樣有著巨大的影響力。

They also own a chain of assisted living facilities.

他們還擁有一家生活輔助設施連鎖店。

And I spoke with Thomas Moronic, Jr.

我還與小托馬斯-莫羅尼克進行了交談。

He is a former radio talk show host who hosted a show for about 20 years on a radio station, WCBM, that the Mangione family owns.

他曾是一名電臺脫口秀主持人，在曼喬內家族擁有的 WCBM 電臺主持了約 20 年的節目。

He talked to us about kind of the contradiction with what this young man is alleged to have done and the fact that his family works in the health care business.

他向我們談到了這個年輕人被指控的所作所為與他的家人從事醫療保健行業這一事實之間的矛盾。

That's extremely ironic because this is part of their family business.

這極具諷刺意味，因為這是他們家族生意的一部分。

And he's railing against corporate health care.

他還抨擊企業的醫療保健。

It seems to be going against the grain within his own family, if that's true.

如果真是這樣的話，這似乎有悖於他自己家族的傳統。

Now, Moronic went on to tell us that he believes the Mangione family was great to work with, great to work for.

現在，莫羅尼克繼續告訴我們，他認為曼喬內家族非常適合合作，也非常適合為之工作。

He said they were extremely generous, especially with their employees.

他說，他們非常慷慨，尤其是對員工。

And as far as the radio station that he worked at, he said it is known as being a conservative, a very conservative radio talk station.

至於他工作的廣播電臺，他說那是一個眾所周知的保守派電臺，一個非常保守的電臺脫口秀電臺。

And he said when he worked for them, you know, he had himself kind of centrist views.

他說，當他為他們工作時，你知道，他自己有一種中間派的觀點。

But he said the family never tried to influence his content, never tried to kind of get him to sway over to their conservative political beliefs, just to kind of a window into this family, extremely influential, wealthy and very powerful in this area.

但他說，這個家族從未試圖影響他的內容，也從未試圖讓他向他們保守的政治信仰靠攏，只是想讓人們瞭解這個家族，這個在這一地區極具影響力、富有且非常有權勢的家族。

We were also told, Jake, that they have they've engaged in a lot of philanthropy in this area.

傑克，我們還被告知，他們在這一領域開展了大量慈善活動。

Their name is on a pool at the University of Loyola, Maryland.

他們的名字出現在馬里蘭州洛約拉大學的一個游泳池上。

And of course, they they did send their son to the exclusive Gilman School, the all boys school near Baltimore here.

當然，他們還把兒子送進了巴爾的摩附近的吉爾曼學校（Gilman School）。

All right, Brian Todd.

好的，布萊恩-託德

Thank you so much.

非常感謝。

Let's bring in Juliette Kayyem, CNN senior national security analyst.

下面請CNN高級國家安全分析員朱麗葉-凱耶姆（Juliette Kayyem）發言。

Juliette, let's take a look at the photos that New York City police released immediately after the killing.

朱麗葉，讓我們來看看紐約市警方在案發後立即公佈的照片。

You can see let's bring that up if we can.

你可以看到，如果可以的話，讓我們把它拿出來。

You can see Mangione very clearly in the pictures on the bottom there from the hostel.

從旅舍底部的照片中，您可以非常清楚地看到曼喬內。

You can see his eyes in the pictures.

你可以從照片中看到他的眼睛。

I think that's from the Starbucks.

我想那是星巴克裡的東西。

And then from the very distinctive eyes and eyebrows from the cab.

然後是駕駛室裡與眾不同的眼睛和眉毛。

Yes, he's distinctive looking.

是的，他長得與眾不同。

You know, there are a lot of kids out there saying he's good looking.

你知道，外面有很多孩子都說他長得帥。

Apparently, no one in his rather wide network of friends or his large family recognized this person that they knew very, very well, who, according to his friends, had fallen off the grid somewhat in recent months.

顯然，在他相當廣泛的朋友圈或他的大家庭中，沒有人認識這個他們非常非常熟悉的人，據他的朋友們說，這個人最近幾個月有些失聯。

I mean, in the end, it's a random McDonald's employee who recognizes him and turns him in.

我的意思是，最後是麥當勞的一個員工認出了他並告發了他。

What do you make of that?

你怎麼看？

Yeah, it's an interesting, if not slightly disturbing aspect to this story.

是的，這個故事很有趣，甚至有點令人不安。

I mean, because because what we don't know is whether he was going to commit another crime.

我的意思是，因為我們不知道他是否會再次犯罪。

So it wasn't a matter of are you turning in your friend?

所以這不是你要不要告發你朋友的問題？

It is whether you can help in stopping another crime.

這就是你能否幫助阻止另一起犯罪。

He was still in possession of the gun.

他仍然持有槍支。

He clearly wanted to to go after people in the health care industry.

他顯然想對醫療保健行業的人下手。

So the law is clear.

是以，法律是明確的。

There is no duty to come forward and say that my son did this.

我們沒有義務站出來說是我兒子乾的。

Right.

對

I mean, or he may be a suspect in this.

我是說，或者他可能是這件事的嫌疑人。

If you have actual knowledge that a felony has been committed, federal law would and state law, most state laws would have you compel you to come forward.

如果您確實知道有人犯下重罪，聯邦法律和州法律（大多數州法律）都會迫使您站出來。

But generally, if the cops, if the police say, look, we're looking for this person, he may have committed this crime.

但一般來說，如果警察說，聽著，我們正在找這個人，他可能犯過這種罪。

There's no legal duty, only a moral obligation on friends and family.

沒有法律責任，只有朋友和家人的道德義務。

And that's sort of the gap that we fell into there.

這就是我們的差距。

I'm particularly focused on the family because they knew he withdrew.

我特別關注他的家人，因為他們知道他退出了。

They knew he was in pain.

他們知道他很痛苦。

They knew he was on meds.

他們知道他在吃藥。

They knew he was in distress.

他們知道他陷入了困境。

And then they see these pictures.

然後他們就看到了這些照片。

And, you know, any parent will tell you, you can you can you know who your kid is.

任何父母都會告訴你，你可以知道你的孩子是誰。

Right.

對

I mean, the eyebrows or the the lips or the chin.

我是說，眉毛、嘴脣或下巴。

You can tell who your kid is even if you haven't seen him in six months.

即使半年沒見，你也能知道你的孩子是誰。

And not only do people who know knew him not turn him in.

認識他的人不僅沒有告發他。

I mean, look at social media.

我的意思是，看看社交媒體。

There is a disturbing amount of support or empathy for the suspect.

對嫌疑人的支持或同情令人不安。

And some of it's driven by anger that is understandable about the health insurance industry.

其中一些原因是對醫療保險行業的憤怒，這是可以理解的。

And yet transferring it and turning it into admiration for somebody that is a suspected cold blooded killer is astounding.

然而，把它轉為對一個疑似冷血殺手的人的欽佩，實在令人震驚。

Do you think prosecutors should be concerned about this sentiment possibly working in favor of Mangione should he actually go to trial?

您認為檢察官是否應該擔心，如果曼喬內真的接受審判，這種情緒可能會對他有利？

I think it probably won't sway a jury because it likely won't come much into play.

我認為這可能不會動搖陪審團，因為它可能不會起太大作用。

In other words, a jury will will probably not hear this stuff.

換句話說，陪審團可能不會聽到這些內容。

What I worry about is both the copycats in other words, sort of glorification or the cold status that he may be reaching amongst those who who may not like health care or the way health care is run in in this country.

我擔心的是，換句話說，他可能會在那些可能不喜歡醫療保健或不喜歡這個國家醫療保健運行方式的人中間引起效仿，或者是一種美化，或者是一種冷酷的地位。

And so you worry about people doing the same thing, going after CEOs, regardless of what your politics is.

是以，無論你的政治立場如何，你都會擔心人們會做同樣的事情，追殺首席執行官。

The other is a larger statement about our country.

另一個是關於我們國家的更廣泛的聲明。

You and I have talked a lot about the normalization of violence.

你和我談了很多關於暴力正常化的問題。

We don't like it in the political space.

我們不喜歡在政治領域出現這種情況。

I don't like it from the right wing.

我不喜歡右翼這麼說。

I don't like it from people who might have progressive sentiments that I may even agree with as a public policy issue.

我不喜歡那些可能具有進步情感的人這樣說，作為公共政策問題，我甚至可能同意他們的觀點。

The normalization of violence as the way to come to some solution is damaging for for a democracy and is damaging for our our our civic civic discourse.

將暴力正常化作為達成某種解決方案的方式，是對民主的破壞，也是對我們的公民對話的破壞。

And so I am shocked by it.

是以，我對此感到震驚。

I don't like it.

我不喜歡這樣。

And it is it is dangerous.

這很危險。