Name: 恩斯特-貢布里希關於 "藝術的故事 "的訪談（1995 年） (Ernst Gombrich interview on "The Story of Art" (1995))
Uploaded: 2024-12-01T09:04:33.000Z
Duration: 17 min 11 s

The Story of Art by Sir Ernst Gombrich is now in its 16th edition.

恩斯特-貢布里希爵士所著的《藝術的故事》現已出到第 16 版。

形容詞最高級

It is unrivaled as an introduction to the subject of art, from the earliest cave paintings to the experimental art of today.

從最早的洞穴壁畫到當今的實驗藝術，它都是無與倫比的藝術入門讀物。

First published in 1950, it is the world's best-selling book on art, and it has been translated into 24 languages.

該書於 1950 年首次出版，是世界上最暢銷的藝術書籍，已被翻譯成 24 種語言。

Gombrich, who served much of his career at the Warburg Institute in London, has written more than 20 books and won numerous awards, including the Goethe Prize for Achievement in Art and Culture.

貢布里希的大部分職業生涯都在倫敦沃伯格學院度過，他撰寫了 20 多本書，並獲得了包括歌德藝術與文化成就獎在內的眾多獎項。

And he is widely regarded as one of the greatest art historians of the second half of this century, and we are therefore very pleased to have him here.

他被公認為本世紀下半葉最偉大的藝術史學家之一，是以我們非常高興他能來到這裡。

This is an extraordinary book, as you well know, and as people have praised.

眾所周知，這是一本非同尋常的書，人們對它讚不絕口。

It came into being because I had once had the commission to write the history of the world for children, when I was still in Vienna as a young man.

這本書之所以誕生，是因為我年輕時還在維也納時，曾受命為孩子們編寫世界史。

I wrote this, which happened to be a great success, and I was asked now to write the history of art for children.

我寫了這本書，碰巧大獲成功，現在有人邀請我為孩子們寫藝術史。

My reply was that the history of art isn't for children.

我的回答是，藝術史不是給孩子們看的。

I said I could write it, but not for children.

我說我可以寫，但不是給孩子們寫的。

And that is how this book roughly came into being, that I decided to make this attempt, and after a number of interruptions due to the war and other reasons,

這就是這本書的大致誕生過程，在經歷了戰爭和其他原因的多次中斷之後，我決定進行這一嘗試、

Why do you think it's met with such acceptance?

你認為它為什麼會被如此接受？

I think, or I hope, it is because I don't try to give myself airs.

我想，或者說我希望，這是因為我不刻意修飾自己。

I don't try to make a mystery of things which are not a mystery, but I admit that there are mysteries which one needn't discuss because they are too obviously mysteries.

我並不試圖把並不神祕的事情弄得神祕莫測，但我承認，有些神祕的事情無需討論，因為它們太明顯是神祕的了。

You also have said before, and correct me if I'm wrong, because the fact that it's said does not necessarily mean you said it, that the story of art makes a difference, that it is the story of art.

你以前也說過，如果我說錯了，請糾正我，因為說了並不一定代表你說過，藝術的故事與眾不同，它就是藝術的故事。

That is entirely true. I'm glad that you mentioned this.

完全正確。我很高興你提到了這一點。

The story in the sense that it is not just a chronicle of one thing after another.

故事的意義在於，它不僅僅是一件又一件事情的編年史。

There's a chronicle of fashion, for instance.

例如，這裡有一部時尚編年史。

But the development of image-making is a story insofar as there is a story also behind the development of flying or other achievements of mankind insofar as people strove for certain aims and passed on their achievements to others.

但是，影像製作的發展是一個故事，就像人類的飛行或其他成就的發展背後也有一個故事一樣，只要人們努力實現某些目標並將他們的成就傳遞給他人。

And so there's a coherence in the story which one can tell as a chain of events which hangs together.

是以，故事具有連貫性，可以說是一環扣一環。

That seems to be what everybody seems to like so much about it.

這似乎也是大家喜歡它的原因。

What you have brought to bear is the connection and the unfolding story of art.

你所帶來的是藝術的聯繫和展開的故事。

Modern art is an interesting point in this respect because my story, in a certain sense, is a story of the conflict between two opposing problems or methods of representing the world which, in a simplified form, you can say you draw what you know or you draw what you actually see.

在這方面，現代藝術是一個有趣的觀點，因為我的故事，在某種意義上，是兩個對立的問題或表現世界的方法之間的衝突的故事，用一種簡化的形式，你可以說你畫你所知道的，或者你畫你實際看到的。

And I explained that the Egyptians drew, in that sense, what they knew rather than what they saw in front of them and that this development went as far as Impressionism where the principle of what was called the innocent eye, really looking at what you actually see, triumphed.

我解釋說，從這個意義上說，埃及人畫的是他們所知道的東西，而不是他們眼前所看到的東西，這種發展一直到印象派，在印象派中，所謂 "純真之眼 "的原則，即真正觀察你所看到的東西，取得了勝利。

This happened at the end of the 19th century and the problem of the coming of what was to happen afterwards represents really the story of our century.

這發生在 19 世紀末，而 "未來 "的來臨和 "之後 "會發生什麼的問題，實際上就是我們這個世紀的故事。

So when you ask what about modern art, modern art is confronted with a certain break in that chain and the search for very different solutions.

是以，當你問及現代藝術是怎麼回事時，現代藝術面臨著這一鏈條的某種斷裂，需要尋找截然不同的解決方案。

I try to explain in the book that one of the reasons for this break was that, in a sense, the theory which was underlying Impressionism is a little too simple.

我在書中試圖解釋，這種斷裂的原因之一是，從某種意義上說，印象派的基礎理論有點過於簡單。

We can never completely separate what we know from what we see and therefore the whole idea broke down and I should have added, and I did add in a later page, that photography had a lot to do with this too.

我們永遠無法將我們所知道的和我們所看到的完全分開，是以整個想法就崩潰了，我應該補充一點，我確實在後面的一頁中補充了，攝影也與此有關。

So the search for alternatives, what an artist, an image maker, can do was on and it still goes on all the time.

是以，人們一直在尋找替代品，尋找藝術家、影像製作者能做什麼，而且這種尋找仍在繼續。

你從來都不是一個出色的收藏家。

I've never been a great or a minor collector.

我從來都不是大收藏家，也不是小收藏家。

或者是一個小收藏家。為什麼會這樣？

First of all, I never had a lot of money.

Well, that's a start, but I know good collectors who didn't start with a lot of money.

這只是一個開始，但我知道一些優秀的收藏家並不是一開始就有很多錢。

That is true. I have no possessive instincts.

I'm very happy when I see a great painting in a great gallery or museum and I don't feel, oh, I wish I would own that.

當我在一個偉大的畫廊或博物館裡看到一幅偉大的畫作時，我感到非常高興，我不會覺得 "哦，我希望我能擁有它"。

I'm very happy that it's there where it is.

My father was a print collector and I own a number of pleasant prints and even quite valuable prints.

我的父親是一位版畫收藏家，我擁有許多令人愉悅的版畫，甚至是相當珍貴的版畫。

古斯塔夫-馬勒，還有西格蒙德-弗洛伊德。

她非常瞭解西格蒙德-弗洛伊德。

I wouldn't say that she was friends with Sigmund Freud.

我不會說她是西格蒙德-弗洛伊德的朋友。

What did she tell you about them and what was their...

她告訴了你關於他們的什麼情況，他們的...

She said that Sigmund Freud was the best teller of Jewish jokes she had ever encountered.

她說，西格蒙德-弗洛伊德是她遇到過的最會講猶太笑話的人。

如你所知，馬勒是個很難相處的人。

A man with a nervous tic and with great difficulties.

一個患有神經性抽搐的人，困難重重。

But she admired him very much as a person.

Did you grow up with a greater sense of music than painting?

在您的成長過程中，音樂比繪畫更重要嗎？

Music played a central part in my family and in our house.

音樂在我的家庭和我們的房子裡發揮著核心作用。

As the Nazis came to power in Germany and began to expand and went to London.

納粹在德國掌權後，開始擴張並進軍倫敦。

In a listening post of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

在英國廣播公司的監聽崗位上。

I listened for six years mainly to German propaganda broadcasts and translated them into English.

六年來，我主要收聽德國的宣傳廣播，並將其翻譯成英語。

It was not a very thrilling work, but hard work.

這項工作並不驚心動魄，但很辛苦。

And I learned a good deal of English in the process because if you have language lessons eight hours a day for six years, you have to learn it.

在這個過程中，我學到了很多英語，因為如果你在六年裡每天上八小時的語言課，你就必須學會它。

Were you the first person in London to know of Hitler's death?

你是倫敦第一個知道希特勒死訊的人嗎？

Yes, so I always tell, and I'm pretty sure it's true.

是的，我總是這麼說，而且我敢肯定這是真的。

What happened was that towards the very end of the war there was one of these announcements on the German wireless that stand by for an important announcement and it was pretty obvious that this had to do with Hitler.

事情是這樣的，在戰爭即將結束時，德國無線電臺發佈了這樣一條消息："準備發佈一條重要消息。"很明顯，這條消息與希特勒有關。

And so I was called in as a more experienced listener and I had the idea that to make it as quickly as possible to pass on the news when it came,

於是，我作為一名更有經驗的聽眾被叫了進來，我的想法是，當消息傳來時，儘快把它傳遞出去、

Hitler abdicates, Hitler dead, Hitler surrenders, and so on and so forth.

希特勒退位、希特勒死亡、希特勒投降，如此等等。

Our Fuhrer has fallen in the struggle against Bolshevism,

我們的元首在反對布爾什維主義的鬥爭中倒下了、

I pointed to the right piece of paper and they quickly rang up Downing Street.

我指了指那張紙，他們很快就給唐寧街打了電話。

Was Churchill asleep? What time of day was it?

丘吉爾睡著了嗎？當時是什麼時間？

他們什麼時候和瓦格納比賽的？

They played a slow movement from one of Bruckner's symphonies which Bruckner had written to commemorate the death of Wagner.

他們演奏了布魯克納交響曲中的一個慢板樂章，這是布魯克納為紀念瓦格納的逝世而創作的。

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恩斯特-貢布里希關於 "藝術的故事 "的訪談（1995 年） (Ernst Gombrich interview on "The Story of Art" (1995))

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