No, absolutely hilarious.

不，絕對搞笑。

I think there's three seasons.

我想一共有三季。

You should think that's with an e though.

不過，你應該認為那是帶 e 的。

Not an eye.

不是眼睛

It's a why There's de RR wire.

這是為什麼？

Yeah.

是啊

Yeah as opposed to da I are anyways, it's got nothing to do with dairy But that we're gonna welcome to talking with docs.

是啊，不管怎麼說，這和奶製品無關，但我們歡迎和醫生們交流。

I'm dr. Paul's I'll sound dr. Brad.

我是保羅醫生，我是布拉德醫生。

We're sitting down We're doing this podcast style Just cuz it feels good to sit down she's got a standing all the time and we're gonna be talking about dairy and Some of the misconceptions or some things that you thought were true might not be true First thing is dairy's gotten a bad rap in terms of its inflammatory properties.

我們坐下來，以播客的方式進行討論，因為坐下來感覺很好，她一直站著，我們將討論乳製品和一些誤解，或者一些你認為是真的事情可能不是真的。

Is it inflammatory?

是否具有煽動性？

Right.

對

So in people who are not allergic or lactose intolerant, there are reasonable studies to show that it is not specifically Inflammatory what that means is that there are blood markers that we can measure that go up when you have some type of inflammatory toxin or Insult and it does not typically make them up and these would be C reactive protein ESR erythrocyte sedimentation rate and interleukin six.

是以，對於不過敏或乳糖不耐受的人，有合理的研究表明，它不是專門的發炎，這意味著有血液標誌物，我們可以測量，當你有某種類型的發炎毒素或侮辱，它通常不會讓他們起來，這些將是C反應蛋白ESR紅細胞沉降率和白細胞介素六。

There are three of the most common ones that we measure, right?

我們最常測量的有三種，對嗎？

And so apparently in the average person who doesn't have a problem with dairy from an allergy or lactose intolerance point of view Right, then it doesn't cause inflammation Now the problem with looking at dairy is a few things one.

顯然，一般人對乳製品沒有過敏或乳糖不耐受的問題 對，那它就不會引起發炎 現在來看乳製品的問題有幾個方面 第一：

It's a very heterogeneous collection of foods.

這些食物種類繁多。

Okay.

好吧

Yes dairy ranges from billion different types of cheeses Two different milks, you know different percentages of fat in the milk and even which animal the milk comes from you've got Dairy from sheep dairy from goat dairy from cow.

是的，乳製品種類繁多，有數十億種不同類型的奶酪，兩種不同的牛奶，你知道牛奶中脂肪的百分比不同，甚至牛奶來自哪種動物，你有來自綿羊的乳製品，來自山羊的乳製品，來自奶牛的乳製品。

So there's a lot.

所以有很多。

It's a heterogeneous collection yogurt So right there, it's impossible to lump all dairy together as to one type of food You're saying is all dairy is not created equal.

是以，不可能把所有的乳製品都歸結為一種食物。

No, right So keep that in mind as we discuss dairy, but in general These kind of studies looked at various dairy products to see if they if they contribute to inflammation one study I looked at was found no association between dairy intake and markers of Gastrointestinal inflammation and healthy adult cohort.

不，對，所以在我們討論乳製品時要記住這一點，但總的來說，這些研究對各種乳製品進行了研究，看它們是否有助於發炎，我看過的一項研究發現，乳製品攝入量與胃腸道發炎標記物和健康成人隊列之間沒有關聯。

The thing I love about this article is the whole things in the title I don't even have to read it now No, actually I did read through an item one The first thing I look at when I read an article about dairy or about anything is the conflict of interest section Yes, that's always the most important section because this was funded by the California dairy industry Okay, however, it did look like a good study that did objectively look for inflammation, right?

我喜歡這篇文章的一點是標題中的所有內容，我現在甚至都不用讀了 不，事實上，我確實讀了其中的一項 當我讀到一篇關於乳製品或任何事物的文章時，我首先看的是利益衝突部分 是的，這始終是最重要的部分，因為這篇文章是由加利福尼亞州乳製品行業資助的 好吧，不過，這看起來確實是一項很好的研究，它確實客觀地研究了發炎，對嗎？

And people who ingest dairy and it could not find any association and historically there have been a lot of studies run by The companies that have vested interests and the dairy board is guilty of this on lots of occasions and same thing I looked at three different studies where they compared Yogurt consumption to a control group for which caused more inflammation But the control group in the three studies I looked at one was was juice The second one was granola bars and the third one was actually cookies But so this is the thing I think whenever you're reading any type of study whether it's big farmer whether it's big agriculture I think definitely grain is tall and look closely at whether or not it's a well-run study and whether or not There's a specific agenda, right?

和攝入乳製品的人之間找不到任何關聯 歷史上有很多研究都是由既得利益公司進行的 乳製品委員會在很多場合都犯了同樣的錯誤但我看的三項研究中的對照組，一項是果汁，第二項是格蘭諾拉麥片，第三項實際上是餅乾。是否有特定的目的，對嗎？對不對？

And the other thing about dairy is it's everywhere So in all the foods that you just mentioned, there's dairy there's dairy and cookies.

關於乳製品的另一件事就是它無處不在，所以在你剛才提到的所有食物中，都有乳製品、乳製品和餅乾。

There's dairy and granola bars Yeah, there's dairy and just as well not juice, but there's dairy and just about everything so you have to keep that in mind too when you're looking at these studies and The other thing is there are a lot of studies that have pre that preceded these studies that said hey look in people who?

是的，有乳製品和燕麥棒，以及不果汁，但有乳製品和幾乎所有的東西，所以你必須記住這一點，當你看這些研究，另一件事是有很多的研究，有前，這些研究之前說，嘿嘿看的人是誰？

Take in dairy end up getting their hip replaced more often There are some studies like that that did talk about and make the leap to inflammation associated with dairy Okay, again, these the everyone is everywhere the way everyone reacts to the different dairy products is different so if you're in the situation we have a bit of arthritis in your knee or your hip or your shoulder or something and you Find that in your intake of dairy when that goes up you feel worse that could be very real for a variety of reasons It could be that you have some kind of allergy to one of the many Components of dairy the proteins the many different proteins that are in there or different molecules might trigger your immune system slightly to get you inflamed Or you could have an intolerance to the way that you digest the lactose in dairy Which could be lactose intolerant, right?

有一些研究表明，乳製品會導致發炎 好了，再說一遍，每個人都有不同的反應方式每個人對不同乳製品的反應都不盡相同 如果你的膝關節、髖關節、肩關節或其他部位有關節炎，而你發現自己攝入的乳製品增加了，就會感覺更糟可能是你對乳製品中的某一種成分過敏 蛋白質中含有多種不同的蛋白質 或者不同的分子可能會觸發你的免疫系統對不對？

So there's a lot of different reasons why when you ingest dairy your arthritic joints feel worse It's possible and right so the way that we digest lactose is with an enzyme called lactase and after We get through about age six so originally because of breast milk things like that infants have the ability to digest this as we get older past age six about 65% of the world does not have an enzyme that allows us to properly digest lactose and this varies By where you live and what your ethnic background is So there are certain cultures that have approaching 100% intolerance or absence of lactase or become lactose intolerant This is not an allergy.

所以有很多不同的原因 當你攝入乳製品時 你的關節炎關節會感覺更糟糕 這是可能的 沒錯 所以我們消化乳糖的方式 是通過一種叫做乳糖酶的酶世界上大約65%的人都不具備消化乳糖的酶 這因居住地和種族背景不同而不同

This is an intolerance So two to five percent of people are actually formally allergic to milk or to dairy products So that's very different than lactose intolerance But yes lactose intolerance could lead to inflammatory type properties and that's why elimination style diets where you remove things And then you feel better help us make a link between those two, right?

是以，有2%到5%的人實際上對牛奶或乳製品過敏，這與乳糖不耐症非常不同，但沒錯，乳糖不耐症可能導致發炎類型的屬性，這就是為什麼消除式飲食會讓你去除一些東西，然後你會感覺更好，幫助我們在這兩者之間建立聯繫，對嗎？

And if you are in that situation, you're trying to think oh is the dairy bugging me?

如果你遇到這種情況，你就會想，哦，奶製品是不是在煩我？

You could try that eliminate for a while Then gradually reintroduce it and monitor how you feel and see if there's a difference in how you feel as you gradually reintroduce it That's one way to test it on yourself, right?

你可以試著消除一段時間，然後逐漸重新引入，並監測你的感覺，看看隨著你逐漸重新引入，你的感覺是否有不同，這也是一種自我測試的方法，對嗎？

Okay.

好的

Alright, so in terms of the inflammation of dairy Remember, it's very hard to say anything because there's so many different types of dairy Yeah, one and two the studies are you know, there's some bias in the studies However in our review, we couldn't find any convincing evidence that says definitely dairy is Inflammatory.

好了，關於乳製品的發炎問題 記住，很難說清楚，因為乳製品的種類太多了 是啊，一，二，研究都是你知道的，在研究中有一些偏差 然而，在我們的審查中，我們找不到任何有說服力的證據 證明乳製品一定會引起發炎

Okay.

好的

So just because it's not inflammatory.

所以，就因為它沒有煽動性。

Is it good for you?

它對你有好處嗎？

Should you be eating it and here's where this video is going to get inflammatory and and leave some comments leave your leave your thoughts On dairy, let us know what you think.

你是否應該吃它，在這裡，這個視頻會讓人發火，並留下一些評論，留下你對乳製品的想法，讓我們知道你的想法。

Let us know how you tolerate it.

讓我們知道你是如何忍受它的。

Let us know.

請告訴我們。

Yeah, you like it.

是的，你喜歡

All right Okay, so is it good for you and flip side that or is it bad for you?

好吧，那麼它是對你有好處，還是對你有壞處？

Okay, so Historically dairy has been promoted particularly in North America by the US Department of Agriculture because they had a vested interest in it, so Hundreds of years ago.

好吧，從歷史上看，美國農業部一直在推廣乳製品，尤其是在北美地區，因為他們是乳製品的既得利益者，所以幾百年前就開始推廣了。

We didn't really eat a lot of dairy But in northern Scandinavian countries where the winters are really harsh Those people were a lot of it more because of the high fat content and that's why actually a lot of Northern Europeans actually a very very low incidence of lactose intolerance There are some other different pockets where they consume dairy in a more regular basis and they have genes actually Modified to be able to tolerate this but what happened Throughout the 1900s is that the government got more and more involved with?

但在斯堪的納維亞北部國家，冬季非常嚴寒，人們更多食用的是脂肪含量高的奶製品，這就是為什麼很多北歐人乳糖不耐受症的發病率非常低。

The dairy farmers and allowing them to make a living and protect their living by actually sometimes even buying buying their products Government great customer government was an excellent customer for any business and they would say that and what happens This is where even they'd like the government cheese program came on a lot of rappers saying about government cheese And what a lot of people don't know is that in the 70s the government was stockpiling Cheese they had agreed to buy dairy products from farmers to keep their businesses rolling and then there was this cave of like literally Millions of pounds of cheese that was starting to go bad.

奶農，讓他們謀生 並保護他們的生活 實際上，有時甚至購買 購買他們的產品 政府偉大的客戶 政府是一個很好的客戶 任何業務 他們會說，會發生什麼 這是在那裡，甚至他們會 像政府奶酪計劃來了 很多說唱歌手 說政府的奶酪

So what are you gonna do with all this cheese?

你打算怎麼處理這些奶酪？

so then they started giving it away and So anytime an industry or a government has Has a vested interest in some type of free market it changes the role of that product in society So we've been told that all of us growing up, right?

是以，只要某個行業或政府在某種自由市場中擁有既得利益，就會改變該產品在社會中的角色，我們從小就被告知這一點，對嗎？

You have a glass of milk get a glass of milk with every meal you had you had milk all the time We're told that milk does a body good and then eventually as time passed We realized not maybe milk doesn't do everybody's body good.

我們被告知喝牛奶對身體有好處，但隨著時間的推移，我們意識到，也許牛奶並不是對每個人的身體都有好處。

And that was that was kind of the the controversy there That's where we are today personally, I never drank a bunch of milk never to it.

這就是今天的爭議所在，就我個人而言，我從來沒有喝過牛奶。

No, cuz you didn't like it No, I didn't feel good.

不，因為你不喜歡 不，我感覺不好

Yeah, I think I'm a bit of lactose.

是的，我想我有點乳糖。

I do like cheese sure and ice cream I agree.

我也喜歡奶酪和冰淇淋。

There's a lot of yeah, there's a lot of fun things about dairy That's why people eat with a lot of sugar attitude, but I do eat you I do eat there sure So what are the some of the shortcomings of dear like what are the some reasons that maybe a dairy is not necessarily a healthy Choice of the fat content you worry about the fat content saturated fat particularly if you're someone who has a predisposition to high cholesterol The thinking is that if you intake a lot of dairy product with high fat, then you will end up increasing your blood Triglyceride profile and it's not going to be good for you and interestingly That's why a lot of these studies are dealt with low-fat dairy products is because of the saturated fat saturated fat has shown to be Inflammatory, so that's why these studies use low-fat dairy to reduce the saturated fat to reduce the inflammatory markers And some studies did show that some dairy products do reduce inflammation as well Mental ones right because that overlaps with the probiotic World of science.

是的，乳製品有很多有趣的東西，這就是為什麼人們吃糖的態度，但我吃你，我吃那裡肯定，那麼親愛的有什麼缺點，比如有什麼原因，也許乳製品並不一定是一個健康的選擇的脂肪含量，你擔心的脂肪含量飽和脂肪，特別是如果你是誰有高膽固醇的傾向的人的想法是，如果你攝入了大量的乳製品與高脂肪，那麼你最終會增加你的血液甘油三酯的配置文件，它不會對你有好處，有趣的是，這就是為什麼很多這些研究都涉及到低脂肪的乳製品，因為低脂肪的乳製品會增加你的血液甘油三酯的配置文件，它不會對你有好處，有趣的是，這就是為什麼很多這些研究都涉及到低脂肪

Yep that shows up and we can check out one of our other videos on probiotics where that it can be good For you certain probiotics which can be found in some dairy products.

是的，我們可以查看我們關於益生菌的其他視頻之一，它可以很好地為您提供某些益生菌，這些益生菌可以在一些乳製品中找到。

Okay, so saturated fat may be one reason to not consider dairy Okay, number two if you have a lactose intolerance or an allergy to it Yeah, it might not be good for you.

好了，飽和脂肪可能是不考慮乳製品的原因之一，第二，如果你有乳糖不耐症或對乳製品過敏，乳製品可能對你不好。

No brainer There are some I think you can actually purchase enzymes to help you deal like if you love dairy so much You can buy the enzymes.

不費吹灰之力 有一些我認為你可以購買酶來幫助你處理問題，比如如果你非常喜歡喝牛奶，你就可以購買酶。

Yeah lactate commercially available lactate and you don't take that or that some milk comes with lactate in it Okay to help you digest that number three volumes and told that milk is a way to develop strong bones So there's research that shows that Countries that consume the most dairy actually have the highest incidence of hip fractures Which is inverse to what we would intuitively think and there's a bunch of hypotheses about why this may happen Maybe related to the rest of the diet and also some people think that it's the excess vitamin a that's there But certainly the calcium that you drink in dairy is not protective as we get older to reduce your incidence of hip fractures, right?

是啊，市面上有乳酸鹽賣，你不喝，或者有些牛奶裡有乳酸鹽 好吧，幫助你消化，第三卷，告訴你牛奶是強健骨骼的一種方式 所以有研究表明，消費奶製品最多的國家 實際上髖骨骨折的發生率最高這與我們直覺上的想法恰恰相反 關於為什麼會出現這種情況，有很多假設 也許與飲食中的其他成分有關，也有人認為是過量的維生素A的緣故對嗎？

One article I looked at dietary recommendations for prevention of atherosclerosis This one conflict of interest this one was funded by a food company in Italy However, they make pasta as far as I could tell the company that they are and the companies they own Yeah, I don't make dairy products with the alfredo sauce.

我看了一篇關於預防動脈粥樣硬化的飲食建議的文章，這篇文章有利益衝突，這篇文章是由意大利的一家食品公司資助的，不過，他們是做意大利麵的，就我所知，他們是哪家公司，他們擁有哪些公司，是的，我沒有用阿爾弗雷德醬製作乳製品。

That's not them.

那不是他們。

Okay, that's not them Olive oil.

好吧，那不是橄欖油。

Okay, throw that on your pasta.

好了，把它拌在意大利麵上吧。

Sure.

當然。

So They found that After doing reviews of the meta-analyses that are out there that dairy Wasn't correlated with the development of atherosclerosis Okay, unless you're one of those individuals as a genetic predisposition to high cholesterol high triglycerides Then you might be careful But in the general population, they couldn't find a link looking at all the literature that was out there between dairy and atherosclerosis And atherosclerosis is a disease process that affect your arteries that leads to things like heart attacks and strokes, right?

所以他們發現 在對薈萃分析進行回顧後 發現乳製品與動脈粥樣硬化的發生並無關聯 好吧 除非你有高膽固醇高甘油三酯的遺傳傾向動脈粥樣硬化是一種影響動脈的疾病過程 會導致心臟病發作和中風，對嗎？

Okay, the next thing for me for dairy products would be on the presence of hormones in dairy.

好了，接下來我要說的是乳製品中是否含有激素。

So in Canada you cannot give Growth hormone to cows in the US.

是以，在加拿大，你不能給美國的奶牛使用生長激素。

They estimate that one in six cows is given a synthetic type of growth hormone And now because the free trade agreement even in Canada, we're getting some of that milk The concern for the Canadian government was that it hasn't been shown to provide significant benefit other than increasing the yield with an Unmeasured, we didn't really know the risk long term.

據估計，每六頭奶牛中就有一頭被注射了人工合成的生長激素。現在，由於自由貿易協定的簽訂，即使在加拿大，我們也能喝到一些這樣的牛奶。

So they said no thanks to that So growth hormone aside the other hormones that definitely are present in milk are estrogens So 75% of milk comes from cows that are pregnant So these are not these are not cows that are given hormones But because of their pregnant state they have estrogen in there and this has been linked to early onset of puberty for women Delayed onset of menopause as well as even related to some type of cancers particularly prostate and endometrial cancer So there is an incidence of increasing risk due to the hormones that are present in milk and milk Yeah, all right.

是以，他們說不，謝謝 所以，除了生長激素 其他激素，肯定是存在於牛奶 是雌激素 是以，75％的牛奶來自奶牛是懷孕 所以，這些都不是這些都不是奶牛 被賦予激素 但因為他們的懷孕狀態 他們有雌激素在那裡 這已鏈接到 早期發病的女性青春期 更年期延遲發病 以及甚至相關的某些類型的癌症 尤其是前列腺癌和子宮內膜癌好吧

So that's one form of dairy.

這就是奶製品的一種形式。

Yes So what's your bottom line?

你的底線是什麼？

Bottom line is lots of people love dairy and I think types of dairy Yeah The other thing I say before your bottom line is remember and I think I mentioned this there is different types of dairy very dairy From the sheep dairy from the goat dairy from the cow.

底線是很多人喜歡乳製品，我認為乳製品的類型是的，我說的另一件事之前，你的底線是記住，我想我提到這有不同類型的乳製品非常乳製品從綿羊乳製品從山羊乳製品從奶牛。

There are lots of different kind of dairy a lot of dairy yeah, so I said the take-home is a Think about why you're if you're eating it because you like it I mean, that's I think that's one thing I think if you're eating it because you think it's a healthy choice I think be objective Try to look at what your goals are for what deer is providing for you and then see whether or not this is the best Way for you to get it.

有很多不同種類的乳製品，很多乳製品是的，所以我說，帶回家的是思考你為什麼，如果你吃它，因為你喜歡它，我的意思是，這是我認為這是一件事，我認為，如果你吃它，因為你認為這是一個健康的選擇，我認為是客觀的嘗試看看你的目標是什麼鹿為您提供，然後看看這是否是最好的方式為您獲得它。

I think there are other sources of things like calcium and protein, right?

我認為還有其他的鈣和蛋白質來源，對嗎？

Okay I mean, yeah, I think I I think that's a reasonable bottom line We couldn't I couldn't find any evidence that said that all dairy is bad for you Definitely in the blue zones, you know, where they've investigated where people live a super long time There's some dairy.

好吧，我的意思是，是的，我想我 我認為這是一個合理的底線 我們不能，我找不到任何證據 說，所有的奶製品是對你不好 肯定在藍色區域，你知道， 他們已經調查了那裡的人 生活了超長的時間 有一些乳製品。

Yeah, but the one thing I always say it's in moderation Sure, if you're gonna eat a wheel of extra sharp cheddar cheese every day.

是啊，但我總說要適量 當然，如果你每天都要吃一輪特級切達乾酪的話。

It's not going to be good for you In fact, there's nothing I think that we need in abundance or excess no type of food.

事實上，我認為沒有什麼食物是我們需要大量或過剩的。

The only thing is water That's really the only thing we need a lot of other than that.

我們唯一需要的就是水。

You don't need a lot of anything I don't think so a variety of foods is what I find to be the most healthy and I think if you are into dairy In moderation just like anything else.

我認為你不需要吃很多東西，所以我認為各種食物是最健康的，而且我認為如果你喜歡喝牛奶，也要適量，就像吃其他東西一樣。

I think I don't think it's bad for you and in my opinion Depend, you know If you don't like some of the other sources of the protein and the vitamins and the vitamin D and stuff like that Then dairy is good for you in that sense.

如果你不喜歡其他來源的蛋白質、維生素和維生素 D 之類的東西，那麼從這個意義上講，奶製品對你是有益的。

If you can't enjoy taking it in from other forms Yeah, so that's that's the skinny on dairy.

如果你不喜歡以其他形式攝入乳製品，那麼這就是乳製品的皮毛。

Nice.

不錯。

Do you like dairy?

你喜歡喝牛奶嗎？

Not a ton of dairy, but I do eat it like I do I do like cheese What else I can take with my wine?

我不太喜歡喝牛奶，但我還是喜歡吃，我喜歡奶酪 還有什麼可以下酒的？

Sure.

當然。

There you go.

這就對了。

So Yeah, so I do personally do you dare not really I mean in a pinch if I'm not somewhere where they have dairy Yeah, I Think it's hard to avoid because it's an ingredient in many many different products Yeah, but unlike something like processed, you know meats Yeah, that's something I cut out of my life completely because the evidence there was overwhelming that that's bad for you Yeah directly to can't you know what like something like smoking or vaping overwhelming evidence not good for you.

所以是的，所以我做個人做你不敢真的我的意思是在緊要關頭，如果我不在某處，他們有乳製品是的，我想這是很難避免的，因為它的成分在很多很多不同的產品是的，但不喜歡的東西，如加工，你知道肉類是的，這是我砍了我的生活完全，因為那裡的證據是壓倒性的，這是對你不好是的直接不能你知道什麼像吸菸或吸菸壓倒性的證據對你沒有好處。

Don't do that Overwhelming there is overwhelming and I did like personally I don't remember we made our video last year on New Year's resolution Yeah, I cut out alcohol during the week.

不要這樣做，壓倒性的壓力是壓倒性的，我個人也是這樣做的，我不記得我們去年做了關於新年決心的視頻了。

Yeah, and I just saying I'll have it on the weekends It's not cutting out completely but because of the research that we found that linked it.

是的，我只是說我週末會吃，並沒有完全戒掉，但因為我們的研究發現這兩者之間有聯繫。

Yeah, I thought okay I'm gonna reduce it but for dairy, I haven't seen anything in there.

是的，我想好吧，我會減少它，但對於奶製品，我還沒有看到任何東西在那裡。

That's gonna make me change my dairy habits Your current dairy habits, right?

這會讓我改變喝牛奶的習慣 你現在喝牛奶的習慣，對嗎？

There you go If you like this video, please like it subscribe to our channel leave your comments about your experience with dairy And remember you are in charge of your own health and in charge of how much cheese you eat.

如果您喜歡這段視頻，請點贊並訂閱我們的頻道，留下您對奶製品使用經驗的評論。

See you next time

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