From the BBC World Service, this is The Global Story.

這裡是 BBC 世界廣播公司的《全球故事》。

Ready meals, chocolate, biscuits, sausages, fizzy drinks.

即食食品、巧克力、餅乾、香腸、汽水。

We know that processed food is bad for us.

我們知道，加工食品對人體有害。

But recent research shows that in many countries around the world, the majority of calories most of us consume are from products known as ultra-processed foods.

但最近的研究表明，在世界許多國家，我們大多數人攝入的大部分卡路里都來自被稱為 "超加工食品 "的產品。

These foods are being blamed for an increase in ill health, including heart attacks, strokes, obesity, type 2 diabetes and even anxiety.

這些食品正被歸咎為導致心臟病發作、中風、肥胖症、2 型糖尿病甚至焦慮症等健康問題增加的原因。

So, how harmful are ultra-processed foods for our health?

那麼，超加工食品對我們的健康有多大危害呢？

And given how common they are, is it even possible to avoid them?

既然它們如此常見，有可能避免嗎？

With me today is BBC health correspondent Philippa Roxby and Ruth Alexander, a presenter of the BBC programme The Food Chain.

今天和我在一起的是 BBC 健康記者菲利帕-羅克斯比（Philippa Roxby）和 BBC 節目《食物鏈》的主持人露絲-亞歷山大（Ruth Alexander）。

Good to have you both with us, hi.

很高興你們倆能來，你好。

Thanks, hi Lucy.

謝謝，嗨，露西。

Hello.

你好

Ruth, I think we need to start with the basics here.

露絲，我認為我們應該從最基本的開始。

What exactly are ultra-processed foods?

到底什麼是超加工食品？

It's industrially made food that's designed to be delicious.

這是一種工業化生產的食品，其目的是為了美味。

Often the companies making them have really kind of hacked what it is that we crave in terms of taste and they've put those tastes in as additives.

通常情況下，生產這些產品的公司都會對我們渴望的味道進行 "黑客攻擊"，然後把這些味道作為添加劑添加進去。

And often food that's marketed at you.

而且往往是向你推銷的食品。

You don't often see adverts for potatoes or eggs.

你很少看到洋芋或雞蛋的廣告。

They're not ultra-processed, of course.

當然，它們並沒有經過過度加工。

But food that's packaged, displayed prominently, particularly to appeal to children, say, marketed and advertised at you.

但是，包裝好的食品，擺在顯眼的位置，特別是為了吸引兒童，比如說，向你推銷和做廣告的食品。

Ruth, I'm now just mentally running through a checklist of everything that's in my cupboards, in my fridge and freezer and I'm a little bit worried about what you're about to tell us.

露絲，我現在腦子裡正在核對我櫥櫃裡、冰箱裡和冰櫃裡的所有東西，我有點擔心你接下來要告訴我們的事情。

So, I know you've also been going through your cupboards.

所以，我知道你也在翻箱倒櫃。

What have you found?

你發現了什麼？

I mostly cook from scratch, so I didn't think I would find much.

我主要從頭開始做飯，所以我覺得我找不到什麼。

But I found plenty.

但我發現了很多。

Wholemeal bread, you know, the sliced package variety that you find in supermarkets.

全麥麵包，你知道的，就是超市裡那種切片包裝的麵包。

Nutritionally good for you, but ultra-processed.

營養價值高，但加工程度高。

Fish fingers, which I think of as a sort of quick but healthy, you know, dinnertime thing and I thought, well, that can't be ultra-processed.

魚片，我認為這是一種既快捷又健康的晚餐，你知道，我想，嗯，這不可能是超加工的。

It's just fish and breadcrumbs, isn't it?

不就是魚和麵包屑嗎？

It was ultra-processed.

它是經過超級加工的。

Mayonnaise.

蛋黃醬

I'd had a little bit with my lunch when I was going around my kitchen checking things.

我在廚房裡檢查東西時吃了一點午餐。

Ultra-processed.

超處理。

Mustard.

芥末

Ultra-processed.

超處理。

But the one that probably surprised me most of all was stock cubes.

但最讓我驚訝的可能是湯塊。

I looked at them and they are ultra-processed.

我看了一下，它們都是經過超級加工的。

So, that means that all those home-cooked stews I did, all that cooking from scratch I did, actually was kind of undone.

所以，這意味著我做的那些家常燉菜，我做的那些從頭開始的烹飪，其實都有點做不成了。

If we start at the beginning of the day then, what about Philippa?

如果我們從今天開始，那麼菲利帕怎麼辦？

Cereal.

穀物

So many kids start the day with a bowl of cereal with some whole milk.

很多孩子都是吃一碗麥片加全脂牛奶開始一天的生活。

Is that okay?

這樣可以嗎？

It can be, depending on the type of cereal you choose.

這取決於你選擇的穀物種類。

There's a lot of cereals that are sweetened, so lots of sugar is added to them.

很多穀物都是甜味的，是以會添加很多糖。

And actually, you've got some here.

實際上，你這裡也有一些。

They look a little bit chocolatey.

它們看起來有點像巧克力。

There's definitely added sugar in there.

裡面肯定加了糖。

But then there's a lot of cereals that are whole grain and have fibre in them and are good for you.

但也有很多穀物是全穀物，含有纖維，對人體有益。

So, this is the slight issue with the definition of ultra-processed foods is that you tend to think that everything in your cupboard cannot be eaten.

是以，超加工食品定義的一個小問題是，你往往認為櫥櫃裡的所有東西都不能吃。

But actually, there are some that do contain the good stuff you need.

但實際上，有些食物確實含有你需要的好東西。

It's just sorting the good ones out from the bad ones.

只是把好的和壞的分揀出來而已。

I mean, I think one of the things with cereal is that they're marketed as being healthy for you and a really good start to the day, particularly for kids.

我的意思是，我認為穀物食品的一個特點是，它們在市場上被宣傳為有益健康，是一天的良好開端，尤其是對孩子們來說。

And this is where scientists are really concerned, aren't they?

這才是科學家真正關心的地方，不是嗎？

Because they say, actually, the driving force behind multiple diet-related illnesses can be in something as simple as your breakfast cereal.

因為他們說，實際上，多種與飲食有關的疾病背後的驅動力可能就在早餐麥片這樣簡單的東西中。

Yeah, that's right.

是的，沒錯。

I mean, there's evidence that the majority of children's diets, particularly in the Western world, are made up of ultra-processed foods.

我的意思是，有證據表明，大多數兒童的飲食，尤其是西方國家的兒童飲食，都是由超加工食品構成的。

So, everything from, you know, the bread they eat to the cereals to maybe the drinks they have at breakfast.

是以，從他們吃的麵包到穀物，再到早餐時喝的飲料，應有盡有。

And that's a real worry because these kids are growing up.

這確實令人擔憂，因為這些孩子正在長大。

And what will this do to their health later on?

這對他們以後的健康會有什麼影響？

I mean, there's lots of research, growing evidence that ultra-processed foods aren't particularly good for us.

我的意思是，有很多研究和越來越多的證據表明，超加工食品對我們並不是特別有益。

But scientists are still not sure exactly what it is about those foods that's causing the problem.

但科學家們仍不確定這些食物究竟是什麼導致了這一問題。

Is it the way they're made, the way they're processed?

是它們的製作方式，還是它們的加工方式？

Or is it the fact that they just contain lots of sugar and lots of fat, as we can see here?

或者，正如我們在這裡看到的那樣，它們只是含有大量的糖和脂肪？

I mean, we've got a table in front of us full of ultra-processed foods.

我的意思是，我們面前的桌子上擺滿了超加工食品。

And just looking at them, some, you could say, they're high in saturated fats, salt, sugar.

單看這些食物，有些飽和脂肪、鹽分和糖分含量都很高。

But there's some pretty innocent-looking bread there as well.

但那裡也有一些看起來很無辜的麵包。

I guess these are processed to last longer.

我想這些都是經過加工的，可以用得更久。

They're probably, they look like sort of long-life rolls.

它們可能是，它們看起來像是長壽卷。

So you want them to stay OK in your cupboard so you can eat them for, say, several days.

是以，您希望它們在櫥櫃裡保存得很好，這樣您就可以吃上幾天。

And that's why in the food industry, they do process things to preserve them and keep them for longer.

這就是為什麼食品工業要對食物進行加工，以保存食物並延長其保存時間。

So there's some reasons why processing is a good thing.

這就是為什麼加工是件好事。

There are other reasons why processing might not be such a good thing.

還有其他一些原因，說明加工可能不是一件好事。

Yeah, and I see, Ruth, that scientists have done a big review, the largest review of some of the evidence to date.

是的，我看到，露絲，科學家們做了一個大檢討，對一些證據進行了迄今為止最大規模的檢討。

And they say there are 32 harmful health effects from some of these foods that are out there.

他們說，這些食品中有 32 種對健康有害。

But looking at the table of food in front of us, or even thinking about what's in our cupboards, is there any nutritional value or is there some hope there with some of these foods, Ruth?

但是，看看我們面前的一桌食物，甚至想想我們櫥櫃裡的食物，這些食物有營養價值嗎，有希望嗎，露絲？

Well, that's the thing.

這就是問題所在。

And as Philippa was saying, it's not known why ultra-processed food might be causing harm.

正如菲利帕所說，目前還不清楚超加工食品可能造成危害的原因。

And it could be that there are some foods that are ultra-processed that are absolutely fine for you.

可能有些超加工食品對你來說絕對沒有問題。

Like my wholemeal sliced bread, you know, it's got sort of lots of goodness in it.

就像我的全麥切片面包，你知道，裡面有很多美味。

It's got fibre, it's got added vitamins.

它有纖維，還添加了維生素。

It's not necessarily that everything ultra-processed will definitely be bad for you.

並不是說所有超加工食品都一定對人體有害。

And also, I mean, there's another category just down from ultra-processed, which is processed food, and that's not being criticised.

此外，我的意思是，從超加工食品往下還有一個類別，那就是加工食品，這也沒有受到責備。

But when I was looking in my cupboards, the dark chocolate, that I would like to say is an occasional treat.

但當我翻箱倒櫃時，發現了黑巧克力，我想說這只是偶爾吃吃而已。

Actually, it's probably quite a frequent treat if I'm honest.

老實說，這可能是我經常吃的東西。

You and me both, Ruth, I have to say.

露絲，我不得不說，你和我都是。

Keeps you going, doesn't it?

讓你繼續前進，不是嗎？

It gets you through.

它能幫你渡過難關。

But that was processed, not ultra-processed.

但那是加工過的，不是超加工的。

Is it good for me in the quantities I eat it?

我吃的量對我有好處嗎？

I'm not so sure.

我不太確定。

Also, potato crisps, another of my weaknesses, is another good one to look at.

此外，馬鈴薯脆片是我的另一個弱點，也是另一個值得關注的好東西。

Because if they've got added flavour, they tend to be ultra-processed.

因為如果添加了香料，它們往往是經過超級加工的。

But the plain salted varieties are not considered ultra-processed.

但普通的鹽漬品種並不屬於超加工食品。

Are they good for me?

它們對我有好處嗎？

Well, they're full of saturated fat and have high levels of salt.

它們富含飽和脂肪，而且鹽分很高。

Probably not, actually.

可能不會。

So it's not clear-cut.

是以，這並不是一目瞭然的。

And it's, as Philippa said, it's not clear-cut what it is about the ultra-processing of food that may be harmful.

而且，正如菲利帕所說，目前還不清楚對食物進行過度加工的危害到底是什麼。

Ruth, you and I share these guilty pleasures.

露絲，你和我都有這些罪惡感。

I also love crisps, I have to say, as well as dark chocolate.

不得不說，我還喜歡薯片和黑巧克力。

So Philippa, I'm standing in the supermarket aisle.

菲利帕，我正站在超市的過道上。

I'm looking at the back of a product.

我在看產品的背面。

What exactly should I look for?

我到底應該注意什麼？

In the ingredients list, you're looking for lots of things with very long, unpronounceable names that you would not find anywhere in your kitchen as ingredients.

在配料表中，你會發現很多名字很長、很難發音的東西，而你在廚房裡是找不到這些配料的。

And those could be emulsifiers and additives and flavourings and colourings.

這些可能是乳化劑、添加劑、調味劑和色素。

And they quite often have very long, complicated names.

而且它們的名字往往很長、很複雜。

That's a good indication that it's probably an ultra-processed food.

這充分說明，這可能是一種超加工食品。

What else?

還有什麼？

It might have added sugars and sweeteners or fake sugars.

它可能添加了糖和甜味劑或假糖。

And it may say that it's sort of low in sugar or low in fat and make that sort of claim on the packet.

包裝上可能會寫著 "低糖 "或 "低脂 "等字樣。

And quite often it will come in a package and not look like the original food, not look like a whole tomato or a whole vegetable.

而且很多時候，包裝中的食物看起來並不像原來的食物，不像一整個西紅柿或一整棵蔬菜。

It will be a sauce that comes in a jar or comes in a tin or comes in a package.

這將是一種罐裝、罐裝或包裝的醬料。

Surely the picture is different depending on which country we're talking about.

當然，我們談論的是哪個國家，情況就會有所不同。

And I know in 2010, a group of Brazilian scientists said we should be focusing less on the nutritional content of food and more on the form of processing it undergoes.

我知道，2010 年，一組巴西科學家說，我們應該減少對食物營養成分的關注，而更多地關注食物的加工形式。

And they created this NOVA classification, which categorises foods based on how processed they are.

他們創建了 "NOVA "分類法，根據食品的加工程度進行分類。

And Ruth, I know you've spoken to one of the scientists who came up with that system, Professor Jean-Claude Moubarak at the University of Montreal.

露絲，我知道你和發明這套系統的科學家之一，蒙特利爾大學的讓-克勞德-穆巴拉克教授談過。

Did they give you an idea of just how common UPFs are and how difficult and tricky it is to avoid them?

它們是否讓您瞭解 UPF 是多麼常見，避免 UPF 又是多麼困難和棘手？

They did.

他們做到了。

I actually asked for some examples of ultra-processed food.

實際上，我是要求列舉一些超加工食品的例子。

And after about a minute of different foods being listed, I realised it would have been much simpler to ask what isn't ultra-processed actually.

在列舉了大約一分鐘的不同食品之後，我意識到，如果能問一下哪些食品不是超加工食品，那就簡單多了。

So, you know, think of packaged snacks, sweets, biscuits, pastries, cakes, pizzas, cereals.

是以，你知道，包裝零食、糖果、餅乾、糕點、蛋糕、比薩餅、穀物食品。

I mean, the list just goes on and on and on.

我的意思是，這樣的例子不勝枚舉。

And the sales of this type of food, ultra-processed food, are actually thought to be increasing around the world, particularly in middle-income countries, where the sales are rising.

實際上，人們認為這類超加工食品在全球的銷售量正在增加，特別是在中等收入國家，銷售量正在上升。

And then in richer countries, they're already pretty high.

而在更富裕的國家，這些數字已經相當高了。

I mean, you know yourself, if you go to the shops, actually, you've got the fruit and veg aisle.

我的意思是，你自己也知道，如果你去商店，實際上，你有水果和蔬菜的貨架。

And then beyond that, there are just many, many shelves with lots of different packaged goods.

除此之外，還有許許多多的貨架，上面擺放著許多不同的包裝商品。

And if you look at the ingredients on the back, it's often a long, long list of ingredients.

如果你看看背面的配料表，往往會發現一長串的配料。

So there is a fair amount of ultra-processed food out there.

是以，市面上有相當多的超加工食品。

Philippa, these Brazilian scientists only came up with the term UPF back in 2010.

菲利帕，這些巴西科學家是在 2010 年才提出 UPF 這個詞的。

That wasn't that long ago.

那是不久前的事了。

So how much more is there to find out about the impact that UPFs have on our health?

那麼，關於 UPF 對我們健康的影響，還有多少有待發現呢？

Well, a lot more.

嗯，還有很多。

It's really a fairly recent term.

這確實是一個相當新的術語。

And there's been an awful lot of research in the last few years into ultra-processed foods and how they affect our health.

過去幾年，對超加工食品以及它們如何影響我們的健康進行了大量研究。

And why that might be.

為什麼會這樣？

And actually, scientists really haven't come up with an answer to that yet.

事實上，科學家們還沒有找到答案。

And so we really don't know whether it's the processing and these added ingredients that are added into the crisps and the bread and the cereals here.

是以，我們真的不知道是否是加工過程和這些添加到薯片、麵包和穀物中的成分造成的。

Is that the problem?

這就是問題所在嗎？

Or is it just that we're going back to too much fat, too much sugar, too many calories in our diet?

還是說我們的飲食又回到了過多的脂肪、過多的糖、過多的熱量的狀態？

Philippa, how much harder is it if you've got a health or dietary issue, which means that you have to have these foods?

菲利帕，如果你有健康或飲食方面的問題，這意味著你必須吃這些食物，那會有多難？

I know I have a son who has celiac and a lot of what I go to buy him in the supermarket seems to have a lot of UPFs in it.

我知道我有一個患有乳糜瀉的兒子，我去超市給他買的很多東西似乎都含有大量的 UPF。

And it's because, you know, it doesn't necessarily have the ingredients in it to make the food stick together or to last a long time or it has a lot of sugar in it to make it taste good.

這是因為，你知道，食物中不一定含有使食物粘在一起或保持長久的成分，也不一定含有使食物美味的大量糖分。

There aren't many other options.

其他選擇並不多。

Yeah, that's true.

是的，沒錯。

I mean, a lot of people do rely on processed or ultra-processed foods for their dietary needs.

我的意思是，很多人確實依賴加工食品或超加工食品來滿足飲食需求。

Celiacs, for example, have to avoid foods that have gluten in them.

例如，乳糜瀉患者必須避免食用含有麩質的食物。

So if you go to that particular aisle in the supermarket, you're going to find things that are processed because they need to avoid that ingredient and replace it with something else.

是以，如果你去超市的那個特定貨架，你會發現一些經過加工的東西，因為他們需要避免使用這種成分，而用其他東西來代替。

And then there's things like baby formula milk.

還有像嬰兒配方奶這樣的東西。

That would count as ultra-processed under this classification system.

根據這個分類系統，這將算作超加工。

And yet it's something that's used worldwide by mums trying to feed their babies.

然而，全世界的媽媽們都在用它來餵養自己的寶寶。

And it comes from cow's milk.

它來自牛奶。

But it has other things added to make it healthy for babies.

但為了讓寶寶吃得健康，它還添加了其他成分。

There's also vegan foods, plant-based foods.

還有素食、植物性食品。

They would also count as ultra-processed.

它們也可以算作超處理。

And yet they're seen as very healthy alternatives to meat.

然而，它們卻被視為非常健康的肉類替代品。

I spoke to Jean-Claude Mubarak about the issue of, for example, infant formula and gluten-free foods and said, well, you know, like they're ultra-processed under this NOVA classification system, but people rely on those for health reasons.

我和讓-克洛德-穆巴拉克談到了嬰兒配方奶粉和無麩質食品等問題，他說，你知道，根據諾瓦分類系統，這些食品都是經過超級加工的，但人們出於健康原因依賴這些食品。

And he agreed and said, actually, he said, I view infant formula, for example, as medicine, not as food, but medicine.

他同意了，並說，實際上，他說，比如說，我把嬰兒配方奶粉看作是藥，不是食物，而是藥。

I'm a working mum and I'm starting to feel a little bit guilty at the moment about UPFs and what I'm feeding my family.

我是一個職場媽媽，現在我開始對 UPFs 和我給家人吃的東西感到有點內疚。

It's pretty tricky because one of the messages is that we should be cooking from scratch and cooking at home in our own kitchens with food that we know where it's come from.

這是一個相當棘手的問題，因為其中的一個資訊是，我們應該從頭開始做飯，在自家廚房烹飪我們知道來源的食物。

But this is all really time-consuming at the end of a long day.

但在漫長的一天結束時，這一切都非常耗時。

Yeah, I mean, it's very difficult, as we discussed, to avoid every single ultra-processed food.

是的，我的意思是，正如我們討論過的，要避免每一種超加工食品是非常困難的。

It's extremely difficult.

這非常困難。

And if you're a busy working parent, for example, with young children, you don't always feel you have the time to cook from scratch.

如果您是一位工作繁忙的父母，比如有年幼的孩子，您可能並不總覺得有時間從頭開始做飯。

That means starting off with the vegetables and making the sauce from scratch, perhaps, and all the different elements of a meal.

這意味著要從蔬菜開始，或許還要從頭開始製作醬汁，以及一頓飯的所有不同元素。

And that can be time-consuming.

這可能會很耗時。

And for some people, it makes them a little bit nervous and a bit anxious.

對有些人來說，這讓他們有點緊張和焦慮。

And it's much easier, let's face it, to reach for something that's ready-made, ready to go in the oven, ready to go in the microwave.

面對現實吧，吃現成的、可以放進烤箱、可以放進微波爐的東西要容易得多。

It's quite often cheaper, too.

而且往往還更便宜。

And in these constrained times, when we're all thinking about how much money we've got in our pockets, that is an easier option.

而在這個拮据的年代，當我們都在考慮口袋裡有多少錢時，這是一個更容易的選擇。

Cost must be a big factor for some people when they're considering what to eat.

有些人在考慮吃什麼時，成本肯定是一個重要因素。

I think it is.

我想是的。

And also, people are time-poor as well, aren't they?

而且，人們也很缺乏時間，不是嗎？

So even just stopping to examine the ingredients on the back of packets in the shop, you know, that's time that you probably don't have.

是以，即使只是在商店裡停下來檢查包裝背面的成分，你知道，那也是你可能沒有的時間。

When I discovered the stock I was using, I was ultra-processed, thought, right, I'll start making my own stock.

當我發現自己使用的漿料時，我超愛加工，心想，對了，我要開始自制漿料了。