It's available everywhere books are sold, in both paperback and digital editions, and on the publisher's website at dogcancerbook.com.

該書有平裝本和電子版，在所有出售圖書的地方都可以買到，也可以在出版商的網站 dogcancerbook.com 上買到。

Use coupon code PODCAST on that website to get 10% off The Dog Cancer Survival Guide today.

今天在該網站上使用優惠券代碼 PODCAST，即可享受《狗狗癌症生存指南》9 折優惠。

But honestly, my opinion with thinking in this really aggressive type of tumor that is out with the melanoma vaccine, which seems so much more promising, and it's evaded the radiation, which is such a strong treatment, my feeling is that Panacure would not be, it might be a supportive thing, but I just wouldn't hold out great hope that it would really help with the metastasis.

但老實說，我的看法是，對於這種真正具有侵襲性的腫瘤，使用黑色素瘤疫苗似乎更有希望，而且它躲過了放射線，而放射線是一種強有力的治療手段，我的感覺是，Panacure 不會是，它可能是一種輔助手段，但我不會抱有很大的希望，認為它能真正幫助治療轉移。

Welcome to Dog Cancer Answers, where we help you help your dog with cancer.

歡迎訪問 "狗狗癌症解答"，我們將幫助您幫助患有癌症的狗狗。

Here's your host, James Jacobson.

下面有請主持人詹姆斯-雅各布森。

Hello, friend.

你好，朋友

Today's episode is a question and answer show, featuring a call that we received on our listener line about a dog with oral melanoma.

今天的節目是一問一答，我們的聽眾熱線接到了一個關於一隻患有口腔黑色素瘤的狗狗的電話。

To answer this caller's question, we have, once again, our medical editor, Dr. Nancy Reese.

為了回答這位聽眾的問題，我們再次請來了醫學編輯南希-里斯博士。

Dr. Nancy has been practicing veterinary medicine for over 30 years now, and as if that wasn't enough, Dr. Nancy also has a master's degree in preventative veterinary medicine and a PhD in epidemiology for good measure.

南希博士從事獸醫工作已有 30 多年，如果這還不夠，南希博士還擁有預防獸醫學碩士學位和流行病學博士學位。

Best of all, Dr. Nancy loves sharing her knowledge and compassion with all of us dog lovers.

最重要的是，南希醫生喜歡與我們這些愛狗人士分享她的知識和愛心。

Once again, Dr. Nancy, thank you so much for being with us.

再次感謝南希博士接受我們的採訪。

Hi, nice to be back.

嗨，很高興回來。

Your listeners always seem to have some good, challenging questions, so it's always a good discussion with you.

你的聽眾似乎總能提出一些具有挑戰性的好問題，所以與你的討論總是很愉快。

Well, I think you will enjoy this question from Shirley in Arizona, who has a rescue dog.

我想你們會喜歡亞利桑那州雪莉提出的這個問題，她有一隻救助犬。

Let's listen.

讓我們聽一聽。

Hi, my name is Shirley Ernst, and I live in Arizona.

你好，我叫雪莉-恩斯特，住在亞利桑那州。

I have a rescue dog.

我有一隻救命狗。

She's probably 11, 12 at most.

她可能最多 11、12 歲。

She has been diagnosed with oral melanoma.

她被診斷出患有口腔黑色素瘤。

I have been doing these radiation, the three days radiation, and then also she already got the four vaccines.

我一直在做這些輻射，三天的輻射，然後她已經接種了四種疫苗。

And I have been, you know, doing the diet and a lot of natural stuff, most from CBDs, four factor, et cetera.

你知道，我一直在節食，也吃了很多天然的東西，大部分來自 CBDs、四因子等。

And now she has the cancer in the mouth and also in the lymph nodes when she was diagnosed.

現在，她的口腔和淋巴結都有了癌細胞。

She was age three.

她當時三歲。

So like a week ago, I started to feel like her lymph nodes are getting bigger.

一週前，我開始感覺她的淋巴結越來越大。

And I went to the oncologist and they took an X-ray and seems like she has a little tumor in her lungs.

我去看了腫瘤醫生，他們給她拍了 X 光片，她的肺部好像長了一個小腫瘤。

So I just wanna have an advice what I can do next, because, you know, despite all everything that I have been done, so it seems like the stupid melanoma is not stopping.

所以，我想知道下一步該怎麼辦，因為，你知道，儘管我做了這麼多，但這愚蠢的黑色素瘤似乎並沒有停止生長。

And I was reading about PenaCure and well, I just wanna ask for any advice because according to oncologist, the only option that I have is to do chemo.

我讀到了關於 PenaCure 的報道，我只想聽聽大家的建議，因為根據腫瘤專家的說法，我唯一的選擇就是化療。

And she said that I only have 30% of chances.

她說我只有 30% 的機會。

Thank you so much.

非常感謝。

Stupid melanoma, I like that.

愚蠢的黑色素瘤，我喜歡。

And it's probably how a lot of people feel when they're grappling with cancer, stupid melanoma.

這可能也是很多人在面對癌症（愚蠢的黑色素瘤）時的感受。

Dr. Nancy, this sounds like it's metastasizing.

南希醫生，這聽起來像轉移。

What are your thoughts for Shirley?

你對雪莉有什麼看法？

Yeah, well, I'd have to agree with you of stupid melanoma because it is, especially the oral ones, they're just really awful tumors.

是啊，我不得不同意你說的愚蠢的黑色素瘤，因為它，尤其是口腔黑色素瘤，真的是非常可怕的腫瘤。

I mean, not that there's a lot of good tumors out there, but some are certainly worse than others.

我的意思是，並不是說有很多好的腫瘤，但有些肯定比其他的更糟糕。

And you can see all the things that she has done.

你可以看到她所做的一切。

She's done the best possible treatments between the radiation and the vaccine, which when the vaccine came out, it really made us excited.

在放射治療和疫苗接種之間，她做了最好的治療，當疫苗問世時，我們真的很興奮。

But obviously it isn't 100% effective in all cases.

但顯然，它並不是在所有情況下都 100%有效。

And it's just such an aggressive cancer that despite those best efforts, unfortunately it seems to have spread to the lymph nodes and presumably the lungs as well.

這是一種侵襲性很強的癌症，儘管已經盡了最大努力，但不幸的是，它似乎已經擴散到淋巴結，可能還擴散到了肺部。

So like I said, I think she wrapped it up the best saying stupid melanoma.

所以，就像我說的，我覺得她用 "愚蠢的黑色素瘤 "這句話做了最好的總結。

I think that's so true.

我覺得說得太對了。

So the oral melanoma vaccine, let's talk a little bit about that.

讓我們來談談口服黑色素瘤疫苗。

And the idea of using both the vaccine and the rounds of radiation.

還有同時使用疫苗和放射線的想法。

Yeah, so the radiation helps to shrink the size of it overall.

是的，所以輻射有助於縮小它的整體大小。

So it's a pretty good treatment in terms of getting rid of the bulk of the mass that's in the mouth.

是以，就去除口腔中的大部分腫塊而言，這是一種相當不錯的治療方法。

The melanoma vaccine, I think it was kind of one of the first vaccine types of things we had for cancer.

黑色素瘤疫苗，我認為是我們最早的癌症疫苗之一。

So again, super exciting.

所以，還是那句話，超級激動人心。

And they actually make it from a human version of a component that stimulates the dog's immune system to fight the cancer.

實際上，他們使用的是人類版本的一種成分，這種成分能刺激狗的免疫系統對抗癌症。

So it's kind of one of these interesting ones where the humans are actually helping the dogs.

是以，這是一個有趣的故事，人類實際上是在幫助狗。

Whereas usually most of the things are the dog studies help the humans.

而通常情況下，大多數事情都是狗的研究在幫助人類。

So yay for us.

所以，對我們來說是好事。

One health, we like this one health, one health.

一個健康，我們喜歡這個 "一個健康，一個健康"。

Yes, we do, yeah.

是的，我們知道。

So the idea of the vaccine is to, again, we're always looking for those ways to get the body's own immune system to attack the cancer.

是以，我們一直在尋找讓人體自身免疫系統攻擊癌症的方法。

Because that's what the body tries to do in general.

因為身體一般都會這麼做。

You know, we're always fighting off things.

你知道，我們總是在和一些東西作鬥爭。

I mean, there's probably so many things that happen to a dog or a human on a daily basis that could have run rampant and caused problems, but our immune system has effectively dealt with it.

我的意思是，每天發生在狗或人身上的事情可能有很多，它們本可以肆虐並造成問題，但我們的免疫系統卻有效地處理了這些問題。

So, you know, some cancers never get started because the immune system can go after it.

所以，你知道，有些癌症從未開始，因為免疫系統可以追擊它。

So once the tumor is already there, the idea is to supercharge the immune system to attack that particular cell type and try to reduce the effects of it.

是以，一旦腫瘤已經存在，我們的想法就是增強免疫系統的能力，以攻擊這種特殊的細胞類型，並試圖減少它的影響。

But again, unfortunately, it's not sometimes a full-blown cure.

但同樣不幸的是，它有時並不能完全治癒。

Well, I think you have your PhD in epidemiology, right?

你是流行病學博士吧？

Yes.

是的。

Yeah, so, I mean, vaccines are something that people talk about a lot these days, just to make sure, because we've covered this before on Dog Cancer Answers, but this vaccine is not something you do as a preventative.

是的，所以，我的意思是，疫苗是人們最近經常談論的東西，只是為了確保，因為我們之前在 "狗癌症答案 "節目中也提到過這個問題，但這種疫苗並不能作為預防措施。

Correct.

正確。

It's something you do once you have the diagnosis.

一旦確診，你就得這麼做。

Right, right, it's very specific to, you know, train the body to go after those types of cells.

對，對，這是非常特殊的，你知道，訓練身體去尋找那些類型的細胞。

And the normal melanin or pigment-containing cells that exist in the body, I mean, that's what causes, you know, things like freckles or black pigment or the black spots in dogs' tongues.

而人體內正常的黑色素或含色素的細胞，我是說，這就是導致雀斑、黑色素或狗舌頭上的黑斑等的原因。

They have melanocytes, which are the melanin-containing cells.

它們有黑色素細胞，即含有黑色素的細胞。

But when those cells go rampant and turn into cancer, they become the melanoma.

但是，當這些細胞猖獗起來，變成癌症時，它們就成了黑色素瘤。

And those cells react a little differently than normal melanin cells.

這些細胞的反應與正常的黑色素細胞有些不同。

So the vaccine helps to target the abnormal ones and get the body to fight off the cancer that way.

是以，疫苗有助於針對異常的癌細胞，讓身體通過這種方式來抵禦癌症。

So going back to that first question I posed, clearly, Shirley sounds like she's a type A personality based on our personality structure.

所以，回到我提出的第一個問題，很明顯，根據我們的人格結構，雪莉聽起來像是 A 型人格。

So she's doing everything she possibly can.

所以，她正在竭盡全力。

Is it pretty common in a situation like this to use both radiation and the vaccine?

在這種情況下，同時使用輻射和疫苗是否很常見？

Yeah, it's definitely not uncommon, depending on what resources that particular guardian has available to them.

是的，這絕對不是什麼稀罕事，這取決於特定監護人擁有哪些可用資源。

So some people are so against radiation that they would not consider that, and they might just use the vaccine.

是以，有些人非常反對輻射，他們不會考慮輻射，可能會直接使用疫苗。

Or they might try to surgically remove as much of the tumors they can if it's in an area that that's possible.

或者，如果腫瘤位於可能的區域，他們可能會嘗試通過手術儘可能多地切除腫瘤。

So you might do surgery and then the vaccine afterwards to try to prevent the metastasis.

是以，您可能會先做手術，然後再注射疫苗來預防轉移。

So the metastasis that she is seeing now, in terms of going into the lymph nodes and seeing it in the lung, just pretty much textbook.

是以，她現在看到的轉移，從進入淋巴結和在肺部看到轉移來看，幾乎就是教科書式的。

Yeah, unfortunately, it's just such an aggressive type of tumor that it is not uncommon to have it continue to spread despite the best efforts.

是的，不幸的是，這是一種侵襲性很強的腫瘤，儘管已經盡了最大努力，但腫瘤繼續擴散的情況並不少見。

Well, Shirley asked about Panacur.

雪莉問起了 Panacur。

I wanna get into that right after the break.

我想在休息之後再談這個問題。

We'll be right back.

我們馬上回來

Do you have a dog with cancer, need a little support?

您的愛犬患有癌症，需要支持嗎？

Well, please join us and find a few thousand new friends in our private Facebook group called Dog Cancer Support.

那麼，請加入我們，在我們名為 "狗狗癌症支持 "的 Facebook 私人群組中找到數千名新朋友。

Our group is the least judgmental, most helpful and supportive group on the platform, and it is rigorously monitored for kindness.

我們的群組是平臺上最不挑剔、最樂於助人和提供支持的群組，我們會嚴格監督群組的善意行為。

You won't be asked for money or sold anything or ganged up on if someone disagrees with your choices.

如果有人不同意你的選擇，你不會被要錢，也不會被推銷任何東西，更不會被群起而攻之。

You will be listened to, empathized with, and given gentle support and solid advice.

我們將傾聽您的心聲，與您產生共鳴，併為您提供溫和的支持和可靠的建議。

We average 75% participation for a reason.

我們平均 75% 的參與率是有原因的。

It's the only place on Facebook that feels like a truly loving group of people.

這是 Facebook 上唯一一個讓人感覺真正充滿愛的地方。

And if you're not a member yet, join today by typing Dog Cancer Support into the search box in Facebook or by going directly to dogcancersupport.com.

如果您還不是會員，請在 Facebook 的搜索框中輸入 Dog Cancer Support 或直接訪問 dogcancersupport.com，立即加入。

We'll see you there.

我們到時見。

So one of the things that Shirley asked about was Panacur that she'd been reading about.

雪莉問到的其中一個問題就是她在書上看到的 Panacur。

What are your thoughts on that?

你對此有何看法？

Her oncologist says that, you know, just stick with chemotherapy, but what are your thoughts on Panacur?

她的腫瘤醫生說，你知道，堅持化療就好，但你對 Panacur 有什麼看法？

And what is Panacur?

什麼是 Panacur？

Good question there.

問得好。

Yeah, the oncologist, I think, mentioned chemo was the quote, best option, but still only gave it a 30% chance.

是的，我想腫瘤學家提到化療是最好的選擇，但仍然只給了 30% 的機會。

And I think that's, you know, yeah, that's very realistic because it's not one of the most chemo-responsive cancers.

我認為這是非常現實的，因為它不是化療反應最強烈的癌症之一。

You know, something like lymphoma, we can say, wow, a lot of lymphomas do very well with chemo.

你知道，像淋巴瘤這樣的疾病，我們可以說，哇，很多淋巴瘤化療效果都很好。

Melanoma, it's just not as effective anyhow.

黑色素瘤，無論如何都沒有那麼有效。

So, you know, we've already got a cancer that's spread multiple places, so the chemo is a tough option when you've only been given 30% odds.

是以，你知道，我們的癌症已經擴散到多個地方，所以當你只有 30% 的機率時，化療是一個艱難的選擇。

Panacur's a brand name, and so the drug is fenbendazole that's in it.

Panacur 是一個品牌名稱，其中的藥物是苯醚甲環唑。

And a lot of people have probably heard of that or maybe even had their dog on Panacur at one point or another because it started out as a dewormer and it works for bizarre things that, you know, how we started trying to use dewormers for cancers.

很多人可能都聽說過這種藥，甚至可能曾經讓自己的狗服用過 Panacur，因為它最初是一種驅蟲藥，對一些奇怪的東西很有效，你知道，我們是如何開始嘗試用驅蟲藥來治療癌症的。

I haven't quite made that connection.

我還沒有完全建立起這種聯繫。

And other things, I hear.

我聽說還有其他事情。

Yes, and other things.

是的，還有其他事情。

So it's pretty amazing.

所以，這非常了不起。

And this whole concept of using existing drugs for cancers, I find fascinating.

而利用現有藥物治療癌症的整個概念，我覺得非常吸引人。

There's a whole subject, they call it the repurposing of drugs.

有一個完整的主題，他們稱之為藥物的再利用。

So they're looking at drugs that have been used for other things like deworming or certain antibiotics and things.

是以，他們正在研究用於其他方面的藥物，如驅蟲藥或某些抗生素等。

They go back and find that some of these drugs truly have anti-cancer effects.

他們回去後發現，其中一些藥物確實有抗癌作用。

And I think that's just a testament to the fact that we cannot seem to come up with truly things that cure cancer.

我認為這恰恰證明了一個事實，那就是我們似乎無法想出真正能治癒癌症的方法。

So people are desperately looking for outside the normal realm and trying to find drugs that have at least some benefit.

是以，人們拼命尋找正常領域之外的藥物，試圖找到至少有一些益處的藥物。

And with Panacur, or the fentanyl, that class of drugs, they actually have several effects that could potentially affect cancer.

而對於 Panacur 或芬太尼這類藥物，它們實際上有幾種可能影響癌症的作用。

It seems to sort of stimulate the P53 gene, which is the tumor suppressor gene.

它似乎能刺激腫瘤抑制基因 P53 基因。

And who doesn't want a tumor suppressor gene to be charged up when you've got cancer?

得了癌症，誰不希望腫瘤抑制基因充滿電呢？

So it seems to have some effect on that.

是以，它似乎對此有一定的影響。

It also seems to affect some things called microtubules, which is one of the ways that cancer tries to spread by forming these microtubules.

它似乎還會影響一些叫做微管的東西，這是癌症試圖通過形成這些微管來擴散的方式之一。

So the fenbendazole seems to have an effect on cutting off that signaling pathway.

是以，芬苯達唑似乎對切斷這一信號通路有作用。

And then there's some other pathways that affect apoptosis that Panacur seems to stimulate.

此外，Panacur 似乎還能刺激其他一些影響細胞凋亡的途徑。

So you're causing potentially some cell suicide like we all want cancer cells to do.

是以，你可能會導致一些細胞自殺，就像我們都希望癌細胞自殺一樣。

So it seems like in test tubes, the Panacur seems to work pretty well against, well, I shouldn't say well.

是以，在試管中，Panacur 似乎對......我不該說......很好。

It has some effect on some human melanoma cells.

它對某些人類黑色素瘤細胞有一定的作用。

And it's fascinating work, and I think it's a possible supportive type of thing.

這是一項引人入勝的工作，我認為它是一種可能的支持類型。

But honestly, my opinion with thinking in this really aggressive type of tumor that is out with the melanoma vaccine, which seems so much more promising, and it's evaded the radiation, which is such a strong treatment.

但老實說，我的看法是，在這種真正具有侵襲性的腫瘤類型中，使用黑色素瘤疫苗似乎更有希望，而且它躲過了放射線，這是一種很強的治療手段。

My feeling is that Panacur would not be, it might be a supportive thing, but I just wouldn't hold out great hope that it would really help with the metastasis.

我的感覺是，Panacur 並非如此，它可能會起到輔助作用，但我不會抱太大希望，認為它能真正幫助解決轉移問題。

Unfortunately, I mean, I'm all for trying things because the odds are so bad, and Panacur is a pretty low-risk drug.

不幸的是，我的意思是，因為機率太低，我都想嘗試一下，而 Panacur 是一種相當低風險的藥物。

It doesn't have significant side effects.

它沒有明顯的副作用。

I think I did see one case of a human dosing himself, and they caused some liver problems.

我想我確實看到過一例人類給自己下藥的案例，它們導致了一些肝臟問題。

But with proper dosing, I think you can do it safely.

但只要劑量適當，我認為還是可以安全使用的。

In a dog.

在狗身上

We humans like to use pet dewormers.

我們人類喜歡使用寵物驅蟲藥。

Do- Yes, we do.

做--是的，我們做。

So Shirley, basically her oncologist said, let's stick with the chemo.

所以雪莉的腫瘤學家說，還是堅持化療吧。

Your thought is, Bianca's probably right.

你的想法是，比安卡可能是對的。

Let's stick with that on this.

讓我們堅持這一點。

However, it sounds like Shirley is also doing these other variety of things in terms of diet and CBD and supplements.

不過，聽起來雪莉還在飲食、CBD 和補充劑方面做了其他各種事情。

Good stuff to be doing for the quality of life for her pup.

這對提高幼犬的生活品質大有裨益。

Absolutely.

當然可以。

I think, again, all those things help support quality of life, and as we've mentioned before, I mean, sometimes that, if they can maintain a quality of life, even if they still have cancer, that's a desirable goal as well.

我認為，所有這些都有助於提高生活品質，正如我們之前提到的，我的意思是，有時，如果他們能夠保持生活品質，即使他們仍然患有癌症，這也是一個理想的目標。

Awesome.

棒極了

Well, Dr. Nancy Reese, thank you so much for your input on Shirley's dog.

南希-里斯醫生 非常感謝你對雪莉的狗所做的貢獻

Well, I hope that something helps this dog because it's a really tough diagnosis to get.

我希望能幫到這隻狗，因為它的診斷很困難。

And thank you, listener.

謝謝你，聽眾朋友。

Oral melanoma is one of the tougher cancers that can attack our dogs.

口腔黑色素瘤是可能侵襲我們的狗狗的一種較頑固的癌症。

And as Dr. Nancy went over, treating it often requires aggressive tactics, just like the ones that Shirley and her dog pursued.

正如南希醫生所說，治療這種疾病通常需要採取積極的策略，就像雪莉和她的狗所採取的策略一樣。

If your dog has been diagnosed with oral melanoma or with any other cancer, we welcome you to join us on our support group.

如果您的愛犬被診斷出患有口腔黑色素瘤或其他癌症，我們歡迎您加入我們的支持小組。

You can find that at dogcancersupport.com.

您可以在 dogcancersupport.com 上找到。

That's dogcancersupport.com.

這是 dogcancersupport.com。

It is a vibrant community of dog lovers going through the same hardship.

這是一個充滿活力的愛狗人士社區，他們經歷著同樣的苦難。

You can find links to the resources mentioned in today's episode in the show notes, and you can find those at dogcanceranswers.com.

您可以在節目註釋中找到今天節目中提到的資源鏈接，也可以在 dogcanceranswers.com 上找到這些資源。

Also, if you have a question that you would like answered on a future episode of Dog Cancer Answers, well, just give us a call on our listener line, and you can do that at 808-868-3200.

此外，如果您有問題希望在今後的《狗癌答案》節目中得到解答，請撥打我們的聽眾熱線 808-868-3200。

That number again is 808-868-3200.

電話號碼還是 808-868-3200。

It is a recorded line available to you 24 hours, seven days a week.

這是一條每週 7 天、每天 24 小時為您提供服務的錄音熱線。

Well, that is all for today's show.

好了，今天的節目到此結束。

I'm James Jacobson, and from all of us here at Dog Podcast Network, I'd like to wish you and your dog a very warm aloha.

我是詹姆斯-雅各布森（James Jacobson），在狗狗播客網（Dog Podcast Network）的全體成員中，我想向您和您的狗狗致以熱情的阿羅哈。

Thank you for listening to Dog Cancer Answers.

感謝您收聽《狗癌答案》。

If you'd like to connect, please visit our website at dogcanceranswers.com, or call our listener line at 808-868-3200.

如果您想聯繫我們，請訪問我們的網站 dogcanceranswers.com，或撥打我們的聽眾專線 808-868-3200。

And here's a friendly reminder that you probably already know.

在此友情提醒您，您可能已經知道了。

This podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only.

本播客僅供參考和教育之用。

It's not meant to take the place of the advice you receive from your dog's veterinarian.

它並不能取代您從狗狗獸醫那裡獲得的建議。

Only veterinarians who examine your dog can give you veterinary advice or diagnose your dog's medical condition.

只有為您的愛犬進行檢查的獸醫才能為您提供獸醫建議或診斷您愛犬的病情。

Your reliance on the information you hear on this podcast is solely at your own risk.

如果您依賴播客中的資訊，風險自負。