He was speaking after attending a gathering of European leaders at Blenheim Palace in Oxfordshire, where Sir Keir Starmer urged them to stand firm in their support of Ukraine.

基爾-斯塔默爵士（Sir Keir Starmer）在牛津郡布萊尼姆宮（Blenheim Palace）出席了歐洲領導人會議，並敦促他們堅定地支持烏克蘭。

It comes as Donald Trump prepares to address Republicans at their national convention in Milwaukee, with the fear in Europe that if he wins November's presidential election he'll be less committed to the security of the continent than President Biden.

在唐納德-特朗普準備在密爾沃基舉行的共和黨全國代表大會上發表講話之際，歐洲人擔心，如果他贏得 11 月的總統大選，他對歐洲大陸安全的承諾將不如拜登總統。

More on the battle for the White House in a moment, but first, Chris Mason, our political editor, is here.

稍後將為您帶來更多關於白宮爭奪戰的報道，首先，我們的政治編輯克里斯-梅森（Chris Mason）為您報道。

Chris.

克里斯

Yes, evening to you, Clive.

是的，晚上好，克萊夫。

The meeting today in Oxfordshire was that of the European political community.

今天在牛津郡舉行的會議是歐洲政界的會議。

It's a new collection of around about 40 European countries, and it came together specifically to respond to the war in Ukraine, and President Zelensky was there.

這是一個由大約 40 個歐洲國家組成的新組織，專門為應對烏克蘭戰爭而成立，澤倫斯基總統當時也在場。

This evening I have been talking to him, I've been talking to him about the reality of being a wartime leader, dealing with, as he is, his fourth UK Prime Minister in just two years, and then, crucially, the politics of the United States.

今天晚上，我一直在和他交談，我一直在和他談論作為戰時領導人的現實情況，以及他在短短兩年時間裡所面對的第四位英國首相，還有至關重要的美國政治。

Take a look.

來看看

When Donald Trump said last year that he thought this war could end within 24 hours if he was to meet both you and Vladimir Putin, what did you make of that?

去年唐納德-特朗普說，如果他能同時見到您和弗拉基米爾-普京，他認為這場戰爭可以在24小時內結束，您對此怎麼看？

So everybody will be happy if one person in the world doesn't depend, Donald Trump or not.

是以，如果世界上有一個人不依賴於唐納德-特朗普，無論他是不是，大家都會感到高興。

Okay, Donald Trump.

好吧，唐納德-特朗普。

If one person in the world, and this person Donald Trump, can stop the war during 24 hours.

如果世界上有一個人，這個人就是唐納德-特朗普，能夠在 24 小時內阻止戰爭。

The question is, what's the price, and who will pay?

問題是，代價是什麼，誰來支付？

So I think in his, I don't, no, no, I'm not meaning that his idea to push us to pay, but if he wants to do it during 24 hours, the simple way is to push us to pay.

是以，我認為，他的想法，我不，不，不，我不是說他想逼我們付錢，但如果他想在 24 小時內做到這一點，簡單的方法就是逼我們付錢。

Because it's understandable how.

因為這是可以理解的。

It means just stop and give.

這意味著停下來，給予。

And forget.

忘了吧

Sanctions out, everything out, Putin will take the land, Putin will be, will make a victory for his society.

制裁取消了，一切都取消了，普京將佔領這片土地，普京將為他的社會取得勝利。

We will never go on this, never.

我們永遠不會再這樣下去了，永遠不會。

And there is no any guy in the world who can push us to do it.

世界上沒有任何人能逼我們這麼做。

Donald Trump this week has picked the man he would like to be his vice president, J.D.

唐納德-特朗普（Donald Trump）本週挑選了他希望擔任副總統的人選--J.D.

Vance, who has said in the past that he doesn't really care what happens in Ukraine one way or another.

萬斯過去曾說過，他並不關心烏克蘭會發生什麼。

What do you make of those remarks?

你怎麼看這些話？

Maybe he really doesn't understand what goes on in Ukraine.

也許他真的不瞭解烏克蘭的情況。

So for us, we have to work with the United States.

是以，我們必須與美國合作。

And if new team will come, we have to work with them.

如果有新的團隊到來，我們必須與他們合作。

We need their support.

我們需要他們的支持。

Could be hard work, I guess.

我想，這可能是一項艱苦的工作。

Hard work.

努力工作。

Could be hard work to persuade them.

要說服他們可能很難。

Yes, but we don't, I mean, we don't afraid of hard work.

是的，但我們不會，我是說，我們不怕辛苦。

Did your heart sink last week when President Biden, standing right next to you, introduced you as President Putin of all people?

上週，當拜登總統就站在您身邊，介紹您是普京總統時，您的心是否一沉？

No, he just made a mistake.

不，他只是犯了一個錯誤。

Honestly, for me, it means nothing.

老實說，對我來說，這毫無意義。

President Zelensky will meet Kirstarma and his senior ministers tomorrow.

澤倫斯基總統明天將會見克斯特爾馬及其高級部長。

He told me he wants a special relationship with Sakhir and permission to fire Western weapons deep into Russia.

他告訴我，他希望與薩希爾建立特殊關係，並獲准向俄羅斯縱深發射西方武器。

We need very strong support from Prime Minister.

我們需要總理的大力支持。

We need this decision about long distance weapon, long range to use it.

我們需要這個關於遠距離武器的決定，遠距離使用它。

We need it very much.

我們非常需要它。

They targeting our hospitals, schools, universities, like I said to you, they targeting our just civilians.

他們以我們的醫院、學校、大學為目標，就像我對你說的，他們以我們的平民為目標。

We just want to answer to the exactly to the point where from there they target us.

我們只是想準確地回答他們的問題，讓他們把目標對準我們。

How does this war end and how soon could it do?

這場戰爭將如何結束？

Do you have to restore Ukraine to the borders that you had before 2014 in order for you to be convinced that that is grounds for peace?

你們是否必須將烏克蘭恢復到 2014 年之前的邊界，才能讓你們相信這是實現和平的理由？

It will depend on partners who will put pressure on Russia so that Russia agrees to sit down and think about ending the war.

這將取決於哪些合作伙伴會向俄羅斯施壓，使俄羅斯同意坐下來考慮結束戰爭。

It doesn't mean that all the territories are won back by force.

這並不意味著通過武力奪回所有領土。

I think that the power of diplomacy can help.

我認為外交的力量可以有所幫助。

I want to try and understand on behalf of our audience how it is to be a wartime leader.

我想代表我們的觀眾瞭解一下戰時領導人的感受。

How do you keep going?

你是如何堅持下來的？

I'm not sure that I'm some special man or something like this, really.

我不確定我是不是什麼特別的人，或者類似的東西，真的。

I had, I think, very good parents and to have, I think, values, values of ordinary, normal people.

我想，我有很好的父母，我想，我有普通人的價值觀。

We all have our limits, we're all human.

我們都有自己的極限，我們都是人。

Could you reach the point where you couldn't go on as president?

你會不會到了無法繼續擔任總統的地步？

Yes, I think yes, everybody.

是的，我想是的，各位。

Because we're just people.

因為我們只是普通人。

You could reach the point where you'd have to hand over to someone else?

你能達到必須移交給別人的地步嗎？

Yes, of course.

是的，當然。

In the next year, the next few years or?

明年、未來幾年還是？

After the war.

戰後

So you keep going until the war is over?

所以你一直堅持到戰爭結束？

Yes, we'll finish with it.

是的，我們會完成它。

We have to finish with it and we have to finish with him.

我們必須完成它，我們必須和他一起完成。

I think it's very important for our people, our country.

我認為這對我們的人民、我們的國家非常重要。

Finish with Vladimir Putin?

與弗拉基米爾-普京做個了結？

Yes.

是的。

Mr. President, thank you for your time.

主席先生，感謝您抽出時間。

Thanks so much.

非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

It's a fascinating interview, Chris, but one wonders, given America's centrality to NATO and European security in general, whether this gathering at Blenheim Palace was nothing more than just a talking shop?

克里斯，這是一次引人入勝的採訪，但我們不禁要問，鑑於美國在北約和整個歐洲安全中的核心地位，這次在布萊尼姆宮舉行的聚會是否只是一次閒談？

The curiosity, Clive, of this structure, this new political structure, that you'd be forgiven for not having heard of, is that they try to make a virtue of it being informal and something of a talking shop.

克萊夫，這種結構，這種新的政治結構，如果你沒聽說過，那是可以原諒的。

There isn't what's known as a communique afterwards.

事後並沒有所謂的公報。

What was striking today was that Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO Secretary General, was there and I spoke to him and asked him that exact question.

今天令人震驚的是，北約祕書長延斯-斯托爾滕貝格也在那裡，我與他交談並問了他這個確切的問題。

And he was trying to make an argument that he was trying to play a role that bridged the Atlantic, European members of NATO and others, and the United States.

他試圖提出一個論點，即他正試圖扮演一個連接大西洋、北約歐洲成員國和其他國家以及美國的角色。

Conscious as he is, he's about to stand down from that role, of the potential for turbulence in US politics and where that leaves NATO.

儘管他意識到美國政局可能出現動盪，北約也可能是以而陷入困境，但他即將卸任。

He did make the point, though, that he was NATO Secretary General during Donald Trump's term in the White House and yes, there was rhetoric from President Trump, but he said they stepped up when they needed to.

不過，他也指出，在唐納德-特朗普入主白宮期間，他曾擔任北約祕書長，是的，特朗普總統曾發表過一些言論，但他說，在需要的時候，他們會挺身而出。