Trump had.

特朗普曾

He weighed in on Ukraine.

他對烏克蘭問題發表了看法。

Well, he was also asked about Taiwan.

他還被問及臺灣問題。

Take a look.

來看看

Should the U.S. help defend Taiwan if it means going to war with China?

如果這意味著要與中國開戰，美國是否應該幫助保衛臺灣？

Well, I don't want to say it, because if I'm in the position of president, I don't want to say what I'm thinking.

我不想說，因為如果我是總統，我不想說出我的想法。

You know, I just — if I answer that question, it will put me in a very bad negotiating position.

你知道，如果我回答了這個問題，我在談判中就會處於非常不利的地位。

That being said, Taiwan did take all of our chip business.

儘管如此，臺灣確實搶走了我們所有的芯片業務。

You know, we used to make our own chips.

要知道，我們以前都是自己做薯片的。

Now they're made in Taiwan.

現在，它們在臺灣製造。

Ninety percent of the chips are made in Taiwan.

90% 的芯片在臺灣製造。

Advanced semiconductor chips, 90 percent, are made in Taiwan.

90% 的先進半導體芯片在臺灣製造。

If China goes in there, they'll be able to turn the world on and off.

如果中國進入那裡，他們就能打開或關閉世界。

Isn't that right?

對不對？

If China takes Taiwan, they will turn the world off, potentially.

如果中國攻佔臺灣，他們就有可能讓全世界噤若寒蟬。

I mean, potentially.

我是說，有可能

But remember this.

但請記住這一點。

Taiwan took — smart, brilliant.

臺灣拿下了--聰明、出色。

They took our business away.

他們搶走了我們的生意。

We should have stopped them.

我們應該阻止他們。

We should have taxed them.

我們應該向他們徵稅。

We should have tariffed them.

我們應該對它們徵收關稅。

So, Richard, what do you think?

理查德，你怎麼看？

I mean, this is — the president is talking a very dangerous game here with Taiwan.

我的意思是，這是--總統在與臺灣玩一場非常危險的遊戲。

And akin to how we mentioned a little earlier how Vladimir Putin might be watching the 2024 election to take his cues as to what to do next, well, maybe Xi Jinping will as well.

就像我們之前提到的，普京可能會關注 2024 年的大選，並從中獲得下一步行動的線索，也許習近平也會這樣做。

No, you're exactly right.

不，你說得完全正確。

I think both presidents, Putin and Xi, are going to wait and see and see what things look like come January 2025.

我認為，普京和習近平兩國總統都將拭目以待，看看 2025 年 1 月事情會變成什麼樣。

The first half of what the former president said was actually consistent with U.S. policy.

前總統所說的前半句話實際上與美國的政策是一致的。

He wouldn't say one way or the other — it's called strategic ambiguity — whether the

他不說是哪種方式，也不說是哪種方式--這就是所謂的戰略模糊性--是否

United States would come to Taiwan's defense.

美國會為臺灣辯護。

That's actually consistent with American foreign policy.

這實際上符合美國的外交政策。

Second half, though, shall we say, is wildly, wildly inconsistent.

不過，下半場的表現可以說是天馬行空，前後矛盾。

This idea of portraying Taiwan as an economic adversary, the way he did it, is, one, wrong, and two, casts real doubt about our willingness to come to Taiwan's defense.

他這樣把臺灣描繪成經濟對手的想法，一是錯誤的，二是讓人真正懷疑我們是否願意為臺灣辯護。

And if we were not to, we shouldn't underestimate the consequences, not just economically, but strategically — the Japanese, the South Koreans and others.

如果我們不這樣做，我們就不應該低估後果，不僅是經濟上的後果，還有戰略上的後果--日本人、韓國人和其他人。

The entire American alliance system in Asia, I think, now hinges on what the United States is prepared to do for Taiwan.

我認為，美國在亞洲的整個聯盟體系現在取決於美國準備為臺灣做些什麼。

If you don't want China to be in a position where, to use the president's expression, it can turn off the world's economy, then let's deter China.

用總統的話說，如果你不希望中國處於一種可以讓世界經濟熄火的境地，那就讓我們來威懾中國吧。

Let's persuade Xi Jinping that whatever his dreams, whatever his aspirations to take over

讓我們說服習近平，無論他有什麼夢想，無論他有什麼願望，要接管

Taiwan, the costs and the risks would be too great.

臺灣的成本和風險太大。

We ought to be projecting a certainty that we are going to come to Taiwan's help, and we ought to be building up the capacity to do it.

我們應該明確表示，我們將向臺灣提供幫助，而且我們應該建立起這樣做的能力。

This, unfortunately, goes in the opposite direction.

不幸的是，這恰恰相反。

So, Reb, we mentioned how President Putin and President Xi are watching this, but our allies are also getting messages here that they know that Donald Trump has a, at least, a reasonable chance of being president again.

所以，雷博，我們提到普京總統和習主席正在關注此事，但我們的盟友也在這裡得到資訊，他們知道唐納德-特朗普至少有合理的機會再次成為總統。

And it seems like every time he opens his mouth on issues of foreign policy, foreign capitalists, some of our staunchest allies, have to wonder if America will be there for them again were Trump to return to office.

而且似乎每次他在外交政策問題上一開口，外國資本家，一些我們最堅定的盟友，就不得不懷疑，如果特朗普重新上臺，美國是否還會支持他們。

Which is the kind of trepidation a lot of them have said, is that we don't want to go all in until we see where the future is.

他們中的很多人都說，在看到未來之前，我們不想孤注一擲。

You have to remember, for this wannabe president again, to give the signal that the United

你必須記住，對於這位想當總統的人來說，再次發出信號表明美國

States will not be committed to Taiwan, one, he's saying something that could be devastating in terms of relationships.

美國不會對臺灣做出承諾，其一，他所說的話可能會對兩國關係造成破壞。

But at the same time, is he playing politics to Xi, like he plays politics to Putin?

但與此同時，他是否在向習近平玩弄政治，就像他向普京玩弄政治一樣？

I mean, he plays all these dictators.

我是說，他扮演了所有這些獨裁者。

Let's not forget, when we saw the attempted mutiny with Putin just three weeks ago, it was also uncovered that this group, led by his former chef, tried to, in many ways, influence the election and support Trump in the first place.

不要忘了，就在三週前，當我們看到普京企圖叛變時，也揭露了這個由他的前廚師上司的組織試圖以多種方式影響大選，並在第一時間支持特朗普。

We're looking at the front page of today's New York Times, talking about if Trump gets back in, he wants these vast powers.

我們正在看今天《紐約時報》的頭版頭條，談論的是如果特朗普重新上臺，他想要這些巨大的權力。

So vast powers, if he gets back in, play to Xi, play to Putin.

如此龐大的勢力，如果他重新上臺，就會向習近平、向普京施壓。

I mean, this is very threatening, not only to our allies, but to our citizens.

我的意思是，這不僅對我們的盟友，也對我們的公民構成了極大的威脅。

You know, President Biden has had some struggles sticking to the official policy of strategic ambiguity on Taiwan, too.

要知道，拜登總統在臺灣問題上堅持戰略模糊的官方政策也頗費了一番周折。

He said several times, made it very clear that under his watch, the United States would come to the defense of Taiwan.

他多次明確表示，在他的上司下，美國將保衛臺灣。

But Ali, I wonder what you're hearing on Capitol Hill.

但阿里，我想知道你在國會山聽到了什麼。

We've talked earlier in this hour about the divisions among Republicans on aid to Ukraine.

我們早些時候談到了共和黨人在援助烏克蘭問題上的分歧。

Where does the Hill stand on this debate over what the U.S. would do if China moved against

國會山在這場關於如果中國對美國採取軍事行動，美國將如何應對的辯論中處於什麼位置？

Taiwan?

臺灣？

Yeah, I think this is one of those conversations that we're rightly having, as inextricably linked with the conversation around Ukraine and Russia, especially as we watch the ways that the Chinese are both observing that situation and potentially engaging with it.

是的，我認為這是我們理所當然要進行的對話之一，它與圍繞烏克蘭和俄羅斯的對話密不可分，尤其是當我們觀察中國觀察這一局勢並可能參與其中的方式時。

This was one of the key issues on combating Chinese aggression that we saw the Hill at the beginning of this State of Divided Congress actually likely to act in bipartisan fashion on.

這是我們看到國會山在本次 "分裂狀態 "會議之初實際上有可能以兩黨合作的方式就打擊中國侵略的關鍵問題之一。

And we've seen, for example, the Select Committee on China issues work in bipartisan fashion.

例如，我們看到中國問題特別委員會以兩黨合作的方式開展工作。

It's one of the places where we do watch Republican senators and lawmakers broadly criticize the former president for the ways in which he speaks graciously about people like Xi, similarly to the ways that he speaks about Putin and Kim Jong-un.

這也是我們看到共和黨參議員和立法者廣泛責備前總統的地方之一，因為他對習近平這樣的人說話親切，就像他對普京和金正恩說話一樣。

I do think I was struck there, too, by the way that, you know, folks in the Commerce

我想我也被這種方式所震撼，你知道，商務部的人

Department probably had their ears perk up as Trump is talking positively about the need to recalibrate the way that chips are made.

在特朗普積極談論需要重新調整芯片製造方式時，該部門可能豎起了耳朵。

Certainly, that's something that Congress acted on in the early phases of the Biden administration in the first year.

當然，這也是拜登政府在第一年的早期階段，國會所採取的行動。

That was a big win for them.

這對他們來說是一場大勝。

And so, certainly, that's one of the things that they're trying to tout here, even on the world stage.

當然，這也是他們試圖在這裡，甚至在世界舞臺上兜售的東西之一。

I know that people don't exactly connect hard politics with chips politics, but that's something that the White House and the Commerce Department are trying to show, as they, again, tout Bidenomics and take that show on the road.

我知道，人們不會把強硬政治與籌碼政治聯繫在一起，但這正是白宮和商務部試圖展示的東西，因為他們再次吹捧拜登經濟學，並在路上進行表演。

Trying to factor it into the geopolitical landscape, too, I think is going to be an interesting thing on if they can do it.

我認為，如果他們能做到這一點，將其納入地緣政治格局也將是一件有趣的事情。

Coming up—

即將推出