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AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.
I'm Amna Nawaz.
GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.
On the "NewsHour" tonight: The House intelligence chairman issues an urgent warning about a
national security threat and calls on the White House to declassify the information.
AMNA NAWAZ: The political fallout from the historic impeachment of Homeland Security
Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas.
GEOFF BENNETT: And in this consequential election year, Judy Woodruff visits a mock presidential
convention to hear what college-age voters think about the candidates and the nation's
deep divisions.
ROBERT MISH, Student, Washington and Lee University: I think there's a spotlight on that polarization
now, and people are kind of opening their eyes and being like, wow, is this healthy
for our country?
(BREAK)
AMNA NAWAZ: Welcome to the "NewsHour."
One person is dead tonight and up to 15 hurt after Kansas City's Super Bowl victory parade
ended in a burst of gunfire.
GEOFF BENNETT: It's unclear how many of the injured have gunshot wounds, but police say
two suspects were arrested.
A sea of red and gold had flooded the city's downtown as players paraded on double-decker
buses.
Then shooting broke out near the scene and people in the crowd, including the mayor,
started running.
WOMAN: All of a sudden, people started crushing forward.
Everybody started running.
There was screaming.
We didn't know what was happening, but, in this day and age, when people run, you run.
And so I put my arms around her, and we tried to push through, so people wouldn't run on
top of us.
And there was a woman crying, saying something about somebody had been shot.
GEOFF BENNETT: The Chiefs said their players were already on buses heading back to their
stadium when the shooting started.
Police had no initial details on what the motive might have been.
In the day's other headlines: Ukraine's military announced it attacked and sank a Russian worship
in the Black Sea using naval drones.
It happened a few miles off the coast of Crimea near Alupka.
Russia annexed that peninsula back in 2014.
The Ukrainians released night-vision video purportedly showing an explosion that blew
a hole in the side of the amphibious landing ship.
The vessel could then be seen turned on its side.
It's the second time in two weeks that Ukraine has claimed it sank a Russian ship.
Family members of Israeli hostages urged prosecutors at the International Criminal Court today
to go after Hamas leaders.
They argued that heads of the group should be charged and arrested for genocide and other
crimes in the October 7 attacks in Southern Israel.
At a rainy news conference at The Hague, the hostage relatives demanded accountability
and justice for those still held in Gaza.
YAMIT ASHKENAZI, Sister of Israeli Hostage: The world must wake up.
The world needs to know that my sister is in a tunnel somewhere cold and hungry, without
medication, and exposed to sexual violence for 131 days.
GEOFF BENNETT: The court's chief prosecutor says he's already investigating alleged crimes
committed by both sides in the war.
Here at home, New York's highest court heard Harvey Weinstein's appeal today of his landmark
rape conviction.
The former movie mogul's case came at the dawn of the MeToo movement.
His lawyers argue that Weinstein was denied a fair trial because the judge succumbed to
intense pressure to make an example of him.
He's currently serving a 23-year sentence in state prison.
Thousands of Uber and Lyft drivers staged a Valentine's Day strike across the U.S. and
Britain today.
Workers in Chicago and elsewhere hit the picket lines demanding better pay, benefits and working
conditions.
They also rallied outside major airports to voice their frustration.
JOCILYN FLOYD, Uber Driver: Uber has proven time and time again that they're putting profits
over people, right?
In shareholder meetings, they discuss profits.
There's no question about safety, protection from deactivation or compensation.
Drivers have been losing money for years.
GEOFF BENNETT: The one-day strike was time to cut into Valentine's traffic tonight, but
Uber said it does not expect the walkout to have much impact.
And, on Wall Street, stocks recovered from Tuesday's sell-off.
The Dow Jones industrial average gained 151 points to close at 38424.
The Nasdaq rose 203 points, and the S&P 500 added 47.
Still to come on the "NewsHour": a former general linked to human rights abuses claims
victory in Indonesia's presidential election; amid concerns about Biden and Trump's age,
experts weigh in on how getting older affects our memory; and Judy Woodruff speaks with
young voters about the divisive political climate in this election year.
It was a rare alarming public statement.
One of the handful of members of Congress with the most access to America's secrets
warned today of a -- quote -- "serious national security threat."
Congressional leaders have since described it as a -- quote -- "serious, but not urgent
matter."
Still, the warning rattled Washington and beyond, as U.S. officials at the same time
worked to find at least a pause to the war in Gaza.
Nick Schifrin is here following all of these developments and joins us now.
So, Nick, what do we know about this national security threat?
NICK SCHIFRIN: Two officials confirmed to me that Russia recently showcased a new capability
in space, Geoff.
That is what this threat is all about.
Russia regularly launches space -- has space launches.
You see one right there.
And the officials describe that Russia recently launched a new anti-satellite capability,
meaning a satellite that can attack other satellites.
The officials tell me that this satellite, which is possibly nuclear-powered, has an
electronic warfare capability to target American satellites that are essential for U.S. military
and civilian communication.
Now, that public statement that you just referred to right there was from Mike Turner, the chairman
of the House Intelligence Committee.
You see him right there.
He is a voice for stronger national security, especially for Ukraine, which itself right
now is facing serious threats from Russian electronic warfare.
And, of course, this comes as members in the House, especially in the Republican Caucus,
are resisting some support for Ukraine against Russia in the ongoing war there.
After this statement was released by Turner, Jake Sullivan, the national security adviser,
acknowledged that he was actually supposed to brief Turner and others tomorrow about
this matter.
The Intelligence Committees had this intelligence about two to three weeks ago, according to
the officials I speak to.
And they say that, while it is very, very important, it is not in any way imminent,
as we heard Speaker of the House Mike Johnson admit today.
REP.
MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Last month, I sent a letter to the White House requesting a meeting
with the president to discuss a serious national security issue that is classified.
I want to assure the American people there is no need for public alarm.
We are going to work together to address this matter, as we do all sensitive matters that
are classified.
And, beyond that, I'm not at liberty to disclose classified information and really can't say
much more.
NICK SCHIFRIN: No public alarm, Geoff, but, clearly, a concern that the U.S. has had for
a long time about Russia's anti-satellite capabilities is clearly much higher with this
new capability.
GEOFF BENNETT: All right.
Well, let's shift our focus to the Israel-Hamas war, which you're also tracking.
Israel's prime minister appeared to take a hard line in negotiations that would pause
the war to allow for the release of some Israeli hostages.
What's the latest there?
NICK SCHIFRIN: Netanyahu today repeated his hard line that he has said multiple times,
one, that there needs to be military pressure on Hamas in Southern Gaza in order to make
any progress on hostages.
And he also again called Hamas' demands when it came to the hostages -- quote -- "delusional."
And so where we are is that Israel continues to have the hard line.
But U.S. officials privately say that Netanyahu is allowing progress to be made on the hostage
deal and that negotiations are ongoing, especially after a meeting yesterday in Cairo with Israeli
U.S. spy chiefs and other diplomats.
And so this is where we are on the hostage deal.
As we recall, two weeks ago, Israel agreed to a plan negotiated by the U.S., Qatar and
Egypt to an initial six-week pause with three phases of hostage releases and three phases
of pauses in the war.
Hamas' counterproposal last week required an Israeli withdrawal from cities first and
then from all of Gaza.
Israel interpreted that as Hamas remaining in power.
So where are we publicly?
Netanyahu takes a hard line, and that helps him keep pressure militarily on Hamas, which
the U.S. does believe helps in these hostage negotiations.
It also helps relieve pressure on Netanyahu within his own government, because, of course,
his own coalition among the right wing, they don't want him to stop this war, and they
don't want him to make a deal that would release hostages if it means the end of the war before
Hamas is destroyed.
So the bottom line, U.S. officials will believe that Netanyahu will allow progress to be made
on the hostages as he threatens an assault on Rafah.
That is the city in Southern Gaza where 1.3 million Gazans have fled.
And the question tonight is, will Netanyahu allow more progress to be made first, or will
there be an assault on Rafah?
GEOFF BENNETT: Yes.
Well, bring us up to speed on Israel's effort in terms of taking out Hamas' leadership.
NICK SCHIFRIN: So, the target in Rafah right now, Geoff, is what Israel calls the final
four battalions of Hamas' military capacity.
The target in Khan Yunis, where Israel has been fighting ferociously for weeks, is underground.
And that is the tunnels where Israel believes the leadership of Hamas is hiding.
And Israel released yesterday this video that it says shows the leader of Hamas, Yahya Sinwar,
who walked out there, right there -- you see that, that's an Israeli animation there -- walking
out with his family, with his children, and with his wife underneath a tunnel in Khan
Yunis on October the 10th.
And what Israel says is that Yahya Sinwar was surrounded by millions of dollars, as
well as civilians.
But above ground, in Khan Yunis, Israel continues the assault.
Today, it ordered the evacuation of Nasser Hospital.
And just this afternoon, Doctors Without Borders today criticized that evacuation order, saying
that -- quote -- "The people inside have nowhere to go."
Either they become an Israeli target in the hospital or enter a -- quote -- "apocalyptic
landscape outside of it."
GEOFF BENNETT: Nick Schifrin, thanks so much for that reporting.
We appreciate it.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Thank you.
AMNA NAWAZ: Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas became the first presidential Cabinet
member to report to work the day after getting impeached.
House Republicans eked out exactly the votes they needed to pass the articles in a 215-214
vote.
Lisa Desjardins joins me now to help us understand what comes next and why Republicans will soon
have even more difficulty passing their agenda.
So, Lisa, let's start with impeachment, another rare moment in U.S. history.
What happens now?
LISA DESJARDINS: OK, let's talk about here.
A reminder of what was passed by -- narrowly, the most narrow margin possible in the House,
last night.
The impeachment articles, there are two.
House Republicans in these articles accuse Secretary Mayorkas of two things.
They say willful and systemic refusal to comply with the law and breach of public trust.
As you read the 20 pages of the articles, really, what they're accusing him of is a
litany of grievances about the border crisis itself.
There has not been any direct evidence that he himself went out of his way to make sure
that laws were broken.
And we know that some Border Patrol associations have said, in fact, they think things have
gotten better.
Not everyone agrees with that.
But this will be a question going forward for the Senate.
The other public trust breach was Republicans say he lied to Congress.
He says, no, that was a semantic argument over whether the border is, in fact, something
that is secure or not.
So, OK, let's talk about what's next.
That's where we're at.
This will move to the Senate.
It will move to the Senate in about two weeks.
Here's the timeline.
February 26, the managers appointed by Republicans will carry the impeachment articles over to
the Senate.
Then, the next day, senators will be sworn in as jurors for this potential trial.
Now, here's what's interesting, Amna.
The Democrats and Leader Schumer's office believe that there could be other options
here to either hold a short trial or move to dismiss this altogether.
This is an area of constitutional law that we don't encounter a lot.
What might be important here is where Senate Republicans are, of course.
They tell me they do not think this is a serious impeachment effort.
There are some who will.
But the majority of them, including Senator James Lankford, who was working on border
security, told me they're not taking this seriously.
They don't think this reaches the bar for impeachment.
So I think right now we're looking at either a very short trial or potentially an attempt
at no trial at all.
AMNA NAWAZ: All this comes, of course, after Republicans, thanks to a special election
in New York last night, have an even tighter margin they're working with in the House.
How is that going to impact things in Congress?
LISA DESJARDINS: Well, the margin, as you say, is tight, and they will lose one vote.
So this means that House Republicans will not be able to spare really more than three
votes.
And depending on the attendance, even fewer than that, once Tom Suozzi is brought -- is
sworn in, the former rep winning last night.
We expect him to be sworn in February 28, as we see all that impeachment activity going
on in the Senate.
Now, he said he won -- this is notably -- notable -- not just because of his -- the fact that
he's been in the district for a while, but because of border issues themselves.
REP.-ELECT TOM SUOZZI (D-NY): This race was centered on immigration and the economy, much
like the issues all across our country.
We won this race.
We, you won this race.
LISA DESJARDINS: Democrats are very happy.
He won the race, whoever is responsible.
Now, I don't think they believe that this tells them everything about November, but
I think both sides today expectations have shifted in the House, Republicans and Democrats
telling me now that they think that Democrats more likely to pick up the House this fall.
AMNA NAWAZ: All of that brings us, of course, to the two biggest issues before Congress
right now, the Ukraine aid bill and border security funding.
Both are now in the hands of that House.
What's your reporting on whether we're going to see action either of those?
LISA DESJARDINS: A lot to talk about here.
As we have been talking to viewers about, all of this has sort of surrounded House Republicans
and that narrow margin, but yet them insisting that they get what they want.
House Republicans initially offered a very conservative bill called H.R.2 on the border.
The Senate rejected that, didn't take it up.
And then House Speaker Johnson, as we have been saying, and others demanded that border
and Ukraine be put together.
Then Speaker Johnson turned around and also said, no, I won't accept the compromise in
the Senate.
So I asked Speaker Johnson today, you have said you will not take up either the border
package with Ukraine or the Ukraine package without it.
What is it you, Speaker Johnson, are doing on either of those issues?
Here's what he responded.
REP.
MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): So what we're doing right now is, we -- the House is working its will.
The House Republican Conference, we just met an hour ago with all the members, and there
are lots of ideas on the table of how to address these issues.
We will address the issues.
We will do our duty on that matter.
And all that begins in earnest right now.
LISA DESJARDINS: Amna, he ended the news conference right after that.
I did not hear a specific answer.
AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, U.S. officials, the administration, argue that Ukraine aid is
critical.
What are we hearing from them?
LISA DESJARDINS: They are trying to signal to Ukraine, hang in there.
Here's what we heard from Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin today.
LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. Secretary of Defense: The outcome of Ukraine's fight against Putin's
imperial aggression will help define global security for decades.
And for people of principle and governments of conscience, standing aside while Ukraine
fights for its very existence is not an option.
Ukraine will not surrender, and neither will we.
LISA DESJARDINS: Those are very strong words.
However, there is not yet an option in Congress that will clearly get through to fund Ukraine.
There is a majority support in both chambers.
It's a needle that needs to be thread.
Congress has a time issue here.
We're going to be watching closely.
AMNA NAWAZ: A lot of important issues stuck in Congress right now.
Lisa, we're so glad you're covering them all.
Lisa Desjardins, thank you so much.
LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.
AMNA NAWAZ: To discuss the divides in the House over how to handle aid to Ukraine and
the border, I'm joined now by Republican Congresswoman Beth Van Duyne of Texas.
Congresswoman, welcome to the "NewsHour."
Thank you for joining us.
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE (R-TX): Thank you very much.
Appreciate you having me on.
AMNA NAWAZ: I want to begin with where Lisa Desjardins left off there and the Ukraine
aid effort moving forward.
You have talked before about the need for Ukraine aid.
They will soon reach a point where they can no longer defend themselves against Russia
without additional aid.
Are you worried, the longer this takes, with the Republican House and the House now crafting
their own bill, the more at risk you're putting Ukraine and the more you're empowering Vladimir
Putin?
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: I think, if we were interested in helping Ukraine, we would have done it
at the beginning of the war, instead of waiting for so long.
Yes, that has to be a concern.
But our main concern right now is making sure that we're crafting a good bill, a solid bill,
a bill that's not going to put us any further into debt, and a bill that is prioritizing
what's the important thing to most Americans right now, which is the border.
So we want to make sure that, whatever we are doing, we're making -- it's not just making
Ukraine safe, but we have to have America safe.
And when we look at the disaster that has happened in the last three years at our border,
we have got to prioritize that.
We're hearing that from Americans all across the country.
AMNA NAWAZ: I want to ask you about the border piece in just a moment.
But, specifically on Ukraine, how worried are you, again, that the longer this takes,
the more at risk Ukraine is?
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: And again, we don't -- we would like to be able to move faster.
I think there's questions that a number of Republicans have asked, including what the
strategy looks like, what's the timeline, what is the commitment, what is -- what does
winning look like.
I think those are still decisions that are being made, and we're still negotiating.
So, again -- and we would like to go faster.
But until those questions are answered, I think you're -- you want to make sure that
you have a thoughtful bill and that you're just not rushing on -- because we're putting
into the time frame of being between a rock and a hard place.
AMNA NAWAZ: You mentioned wanting to see those border provisions in another bill as well.
I should note that the Senate did pass a bipartisan bill that had border provisions in it, before
Senate Republicans backed away from that, and then just a Ukraine and a foreign aid
bill moved through the Senate.
But you're from Texas.
You know the challenges at the border.
Part of this global migration trend we have been seeing, we're seeing in the U.S. too.
When it comes to solving the border crisis, though, Congresswoman, why vote to impeach
the homeland security secretary, rather than back a bipartisan bill that actually had some
very conservative immigration reforms in it?
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: So, I want to be clear.
The Senate did not pass that bill.
That bill never came out of the Senate to go to the House.
So it was never...
(CROSSTALK)
AMNA NAWAZ: The border bill did not, correct.
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: It did not.
AMNA NAWAZ: It was just foreign aid that came out.
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: Correct.
AMNA NAWAZ: Yes.
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: Correct.
So we never saw a Senate bill.
We saw some text of what was being decided at the Senate side, but it never came over
to the House.
The House did send over a very strong bill in H.R.2 that had the provisions that codified
what the Trump administration put in place, specifically, the remain-in-Mexico policy.
It was ending catch-and-release.
It was fortifying the relationships between Immigration and Customs Enforcement and local
law enforcement and state law enforcement.
AMNA NAWAZ: If I may, Congresswoman, as you know, the Senate did not take that bill up.
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: Correct.
Correct.
And that's what I'm saying.
You asked what the House is doing to be able to look at border, what has to happen.
And I think what has to happen is, that bill needs to be taken up.
H.R.2 needs to be taken up.
I think, if the Democrats and the Senate were serious about border security, they would
look at the provisions that were in that bill, they would recognize that this is not just
a thoughtful bill, but this is a bill that is based on solutions that had worked in the
past.
The part of the Senate bill that was -- we really did not think was -- it was going to
be dead on arrival was the allowance of 5,000 to 8,500 people, illegal immigrants coming
into our country a day.
Under the Biden administration, we have seen record numbers.
AMNA NAWAZ: Congresswoman, if I may, actually, the automatic trigger to shut down the border
was when it actually reached the threshold of 5,000 a day...
(CROSSTALK)
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: Actually, the 5,000 -- yes, that's not actually -- that's not accurate.
It was on 5,000 on average for a seven-day period, for a week period, but it was 8,500
in one single day.
So, if you do the math, it's nearly two million people coming over a year.
(CROSSTALK)
AMNA NAWAZ: Recently, we have been seeing those numbers.
The border would have been shut down had that kind of automatic trigger been in place.
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: So, had they been looking at H.R.2, what we saw under H.R.2, when those
policies were in place, was less than 1,000 people coming in over our border every day,
as opposed to 5,000.
If they just were to take the policies that the Biden administration from day one took
off the table, we could already have had a secure border and we would not see the ridiculous,
record numbers of people coming into our border every day and what we have seen since the
Biden administration took over.
But you asked the question about Mayorkas and why it was necessary to impeach him.
The American people want to make sure that we are holding these folks accountable.
When you have seen 10 million -- actually, I learned today from Chad Wolf it's over 11
million people have come into our country illegally in the last three years.
When you look at the deaths as a result of fentanyl coming in, over 110,000 dead Americans,
five dead Texans every single day as a result of this coming over our border, we have got
to get serious about border security and about...
(CROSSTALK)
AMNA NAWAZ: Congresswoman, if I may.
I'm sorry.
I apologize for the interruption.
I'm not sure about the 11 million number or the source for that.
That's not what we have seen lining up with Border Patrol numbers.
And, also, as I'm sure you have noted before and seen before...
(CROSSTALK)
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: Yes, we had a briefing today.
Yes, we had a briefing today with Chad Wolf, and that was the number that he had quoted.
AMNA NAWAZ: Fentanyl largely comes in through legal ports of entry and is -- the majority
of it is brought in by American citizens, not from...
(CROSSTALK)
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: And I know.
And we say that, because that's what we're catching.
We're catching the drugs that are coming over through legal -- through our ports of entry.
But the fact is, we have absolutely no idea how much of that drug is coming through illegally
that we don't catch.
And I think it's a huge leap of assumption that we're saying, oh, no, it's only being
brought in by Americans and it's only being brought in at ports of entry.
That's absolutely incorrect.
AMNA NAWAZ: Well, these are U.S. government and Border Patrol numbers, figures and characterizations.
(CROSSTALK)
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: Yes, but that's absolutely -- it's only catching what's coming through
those ports of entry.
(CROSSTALK)
AMNA NAWAZ: Which is the vast majority of the fentanyl coming into the country right
now.
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: But you have no idea.
But that's the problem, is, you don't know.
You don't know.
We're assuming that the getaways that are coming through, that that's -- they're not
being caught.
So the answer is we really have no idea how much it's coming in that we're not even seeing.
AMNA NAWAZ: Congresswoman, can I ask you?
Immigration has obviously become a leading campaign concern and an issue for former President
Donald Trump.
But we know that he didn't want Republicans to back any kind of deal and not to give President
Biden a so-called win.
Is it fair to say that Donald Trump is calling the shots on what Republicans in Congress
will or won't do right now?
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: Not that I'm aware of.
I never got a phone call from the president asking me not to support a bill.
I think what we want is our border secure.
And what we saw from the bill that was coming out of the Senate is, it was going to normalize
the record rates of people coming over.
It was going to further incentivize people coming over by giving them work permits.
It would not have secured our border.
It would not have prevented illegal immigration.
It would only have made the problem worse.
AMNA NAWAZ: Republican Congresswoman Beth Van Duyne from Texas joining us tonight.
Congresswoman, thank you for your time.
We appreciate it.
REP.
BETH VAN DUYNE: Thank you very much.
Appreciate it.
Thank you.
GEOFF BENNETT: Former Indonesian general Prabowo Subianto declared himself the winner of Indonesia's
presidential election today.
Though the final vote count is still pending, exit polling showed he had a huge lead.
He addressed cheering supporters after the polls closed.
PRABOWO SUBIANTO, Presumed Indonesian President-Elect (through translator): Even though we are grateful,
we must not be arrogant.
We must not be arrogant.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
PRABOWO SUBIANTO (through translator): We must not be euphoric.
We still have to be humble.
This victory must be a victory for all Indonesian people.
GEOFF BENNETT: Prabowo now serves as defense minister under the outgoing president, Joko
Widodo.
During the country's authoritarian regime, Prabowo was accused of major human rights
abuses, including overseeing the abduction of democracy activists, accusations that led
to a U.S. travel ban.
Indonesia is now the world's third largest democracy.
It's a majority-Muslim nation spread out across 3,500 miles and 17,000 islands.
It sits at a crucial pivot point between China and the U.S. in the Indo-Pacific region.
For more on the significance of this moment, we turn to Ben Bland, director of the Asia-Pacific
Program at Chatham House.
That's a think tank based in the U.K.
Thank you for being with us.
So, Prabowo Subianto, as we mentioned, a former army general linked to human rights abuses,
he won, with the hugely popular current president's son running as his vice president.
Tell us more about these men and what their elections suggest about Indonesia's future.
BEN BLAND, Chatham House: Well, it's a remarkable result really for someone with a checkered
track record, as you rightly highlighted, but someone who's shown remarkable persistence.
So, after he was dismissed from the military in 1998, Prabowo entered the kind of new democratic
politics in post-reform Indonesia.
And he's tried multiple times to get the presidency, including two really bitterly fought contests
against the current president, Jokowi, as he's known, which Prabowo lost.
And then Jokowi appointed him his defense minister to sort of bring him into the tent,
as it were, and that eventually led to this unofficial alliance, where Jokowi's son became
Prabowo's V.P.
candidate.
And Prabowo has really ridden on the back of Jokowi -- Jokowi's incredible popularity
to finally make, it seems, into the presidential palace.
And I think the appeal was in part his own kind of strongman, tough guy image, but that
wasn't enough.
It was really the implicit backing of Jokowi, whose economic reforms, his economic growth
that he's achieved in Indonesia has made him really, really popular with approval ratings
of something like 80 percent at the end of his second term, which is something that most
U.S. presidents would kill for.
GEOFF BENNETT: And, as I mentioned, their victory is raising questions about this country's
-- that country's commitment to democratic values.
Indonesia is now the world's third largest democracy.
And it's a democracy that was hard-won after the Suharto regime.
So what does their election suggest about democracy and human rights moving forward
there?
BEN BLAND: Well, I think there were real concerns that, under Jokowi, while his economic policies
were quite popular, some of the checks and balances in Indonesia's democracy were eroded.
And that's concerning.
And when you kind of hand the levers of a system that's been weakened somewhat to a
character like Prabowo, that understandably makes a lot of Indonesian human rights activists
incredibly nervous.
But I think the important thing to understand is, firstly, most the Indonesians who voted
for Prabowo did it because they want him to lead their democracy.
They don't want him to dismantle it.
And the second thing to understand, I think, is that while there are concerns about democratic
erosion or backsliding, that's not unique to Indonesia.
We have seen similar problems in the U.S., in Europe and elsewhere in the world.
And Indonesia still has a highly decentralized system.
There still are a lot of channels for opposition in the Parliament, through the media, through
civil society.
And democracy isn't just about elections.
It's about what you do afterwards.
So, I think this battle over power and influence in Indonesia's system is going to continue
even if Prabowo is confirmed as the president.
That's not the end of the story.
I think there's a lot of fight to come.
Plus, we have to acknowledge that Prabowo does seem to suggest that he's a changed character.
And, ultimately, in the end, it was democracy that's allowed him, it seems, to get the top
job.
GEOFF BENNETT: In the minute we have left, Ben Bland, this is a region, of course, where
the U.S. and China have been on a collision course over Taiwan and a host of other issues.
What are the stakes here?
What are the stakes for U.S. interests in the Indo-Pacific?
BEN BLAND: Well, Indonesia is a really, really important nonaligned country.
So it's never going to have an alliance with the United States, even though it has quite
close military cooperation.
It's also not going to be an ally of China, which doesn't have its own allies in any case.
But it's a really influential country in terms of the security in the region, in terms of
technology, the future of electric vehicles.
A lot of key minerals are mined in Indonesia.
So the decisions (AUDIO GAP) they work with, whether they use U.S. technology or Chinese
technology, are going to have a really big impact on this broader competition.
And precisely because Indonesia won't ally with either side, it's a really important
country, where all sides want to get more influence in different ways.
And Indonesia wants to kind of fiercely defend its independence and try and play off the
U.S. and China against each other for its own sort of maximum economic benefits.
But I think that's going to get harder and harder in a world where U.S. (AUDIO GAP) is
increasingly intense, and there will be pressure on countries such as Indonesia to make many,
many difficult choices.
GEOFF BENNETT: Ben Bland, director of the Asia-Pacific Program at Chatham House, thanks
for your time this evening.
BEN BLAND: Thanks.
AMNA NAWAZ: As America braces for a rematch between President Joe Biden and former President
Donald Trump, the ages of both men are troubling voters in this election year.
Laura Barron-Lopez looks at the questions many have around aging, memory and the presidency.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Amna, age is much more than just a number for both President Biden
and former President Trump.
It's a potential political liability.
We're going to focus on some of the questions people have.
But, first, we're going to hear from some older Americans, voters who are 70 and above,
to get their perspective on this moment and what amounts to an ongoing national conversation
about age.
DANIEL CABRERA, California: My name is Dan Cabrera.
I live in Southern California, and I am 71 years old.
And neither candidate really has got it together, in my view.
They both have serious shortcomings when it comes to their clarity, their intellect.
DENNIS TAYLOR, Montana: So I'm Dennis Taylor.
I live in Helena, Montana, and I'm 77 years old.
The whole thing that we're talking about in this election is a number between, what, 77
-- that's my age, the same as Donald Trump -- and 81.
When Chuck Grassley was running for reelection at 90 for another six-year term, which his
voters overwhelmingly gave him, nobody said a word.
SUSAN WARD, North Carolina: I'm Susan Ward.
I live in Asheville, North Carolina, and I'm 70 years old.
I'm an active 70-year-old, and I wouldn't have the stamina to be president of the United
States.
And so I do think it's worth thinking about.
At the same time, this is what we have got.
MARY ALICE SHAKER, Virginia: My name is Mary Alice Shaker.
I live in Virginia, Richmond, Virginia, and I'm 77 years old.
I think President Biden is very competent and very, very knowledgeable.
And if he gaffes a little bit once in a while, I don't think that affects his ability.
For the next four years, I'm not so sure.
DENNIS TAYLOR: Nobody said anything about Warren Buffett or Cicely Tyson or Jane Fonda
or Dr. Fauci or Mick Jagger or Harrison Ford.
I mean, think of all the people who in their 80s and 90s contributed to the society.
Can you imagine saying that Martin Scorsese needs to take a test before he can do this
next movie?
DANIEL CABRERA: You can look at other major world leaders, in my view.
And Zelenskyy is a stellar example, Macron, Rishi from the U.K., et cetera.
These guys are younger, more energetic, more able, in my view, than either of the two candidates
we currently have as leading Republican and Democratic presidential candidates.
SUSAN WARD: I have seen some people list that medical cognitive test kind of requirement.
And, on one hand I could say, oh, that's probably a good idea, because then we'd have some more
information about older people running for office.
But, on the other hand, I think to myself, do we do that just for presidents?
DENNIS TAYLOR: We worry about implicit bias, where we may not know that we have certain
biases against certain kinds of people or stereotypes or prejudice that we may have
or harbor.
In the case of ageism, it's like an explicit bias, and everybody's cool with it.
MARY ALICE SHAKER: I watched with interest the Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the Dianne Feinstein,
and if they had only retired when they were supposed to retire, a lot of the mess we're
in right now wouldn't be there.
You have to know when it's time.
If I were in their shoes, I would step aside.
I would step aside and let younger people take over.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Following verbal stumbles on the campaign trail, polls have consistently
shown voters are concerned about the mental fitness of both leading presidential contenders.
In a recent poll, an NBC News survey found that 76 percent of voters had major concerns
about President Biden's physical and mental health.
Meanwhile, 48 percent of voters had the same major concerns about former President Trump.
To help us understand more about what happens to our brains as we age and for some perspective
on these lapses from both men, I'm joined by two experts in memory and cognition.
Dr. Dan Blazer is a professor emeritus of psychiatry and behavioral studies at Duke
University.
Charan Ranganath is a professor of psychology and neuroscience at the University of California,
Davis.
He's also the author of a new book releasing next week called "Why We Remember: Unlocking
Memory's Power to Hold on to What Matters."
Thank you both so much for joining us.
Professor Ranganath, I want to start with you.
As we know, President Biden is 81 years old.
Former President Donald Trump is 77.
Help us sort through what we know about what happens to cognition, brain function, and
memory as we age, particularly once we get over the age of 75.
CHARAN RANGANATH, University of California, Davis: Yes, there's actually -- it's fascinating
because the work has really been evolving.
But the basic story is, on average, memory goes down with age.
I don't think that's a surprise for many viewers.
But if you actually look at different individuals, it really varies.
Some people, if you track them over time, they can go into their old age and they're
super agers and they're fine, and other people do have a decline over time.
And so you really need to ask yourself what's going on with an individual person.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Last week, special counsel Robert Hur concluded no charges would be brought
against President Biden for his handling of classified documents.
But the special counsel commented on the president's memory, saying that the president couldn't
remember even within several years when his son Beau Biden died.
And then President Biden offered a stinging rebuke in response to Robert Hur.
But when he took a question from a reporter about Gaza, he mixed up the country of a foreign
leader.
JOE BIDEN, President of the United States: As you know, initially, the President of Mexico
El-Sisi, did not want to open up the gate to allow humanitarian material to get in.
I talked to him.
I convinced him to open the gate.
I talked to Bibi to open the gate on the Israeli side.
I've been pushing really hard -- really hard to get humanitarian assistance into Gaza.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: President Biden clearly meant to say the president of Egypt, not of
Mexico.
But, Dr. Blazer, do slips of memory like that signal any real deficits or an ability for
a person to make hard decisions?
DR.
DAN BLAZER, Duke University: I think that's the critical question.
First off, these types of slips are not uncommon with older persons, especially when they're
having to recall a number of facts in a fairly brief period of time, and also when they're
under the pressure of having to respond quickly and briefly to questions that are being posed.
That doesn't necessarily at all relate to their ability in judgment.
What -- another element of that judgment is something we call executive function.
That's ability to make judgments, to really see the big picture.
So, I think the bottom line for me is that you have to test these individuals in terms
of how well they're doing their job, not how well they may perform in a particular situation.
If they slip on a particular topic, forget something, I think you have to look at the
big picture.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Dr. Ranganath, if you watch President Biden now versus eight years
ago, there's no doubt that his speech is at times a little less crisp.
He might take some longer pauses.
But what can we know and what don't we know by watching him?
CHARAN RANGANATH: So first of all, I just want to be clear that I'm a scientist, and
so I can't diagnose anyone.
What I can say is that these verbal slips that Dr. Blazer brought up, and you said it
perfectly, they're not even memory slips, per se.
They're really difficulties, and you just get a little bit slower to come up with words,
and, sometimes, you're slower to catch the errors when they happen.
So I wouldn't even call those memory slips, per se.
I think, sometimes, people judge the appearance of something like that, and they think that
there's some memory problem, but that's not really a memory problem.
I know President Biden had a stutter when he was growing up, and that actually also
demands more executive function just to articulate.
So I think that might be factoring in too.
But, again, I totally concur with Dr. Blazer that you really need to ask these questions
in a real way, as opposed to just superficial observations.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: And, Dr. Blazer, Trump himself has repeatedly mixed up people as
well, including Nikki Haley and Nancy Pelosi, when he was talking about the January 6 insurrection.
DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate:
By the way, they never report the crowd on January 6.
Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley -- you know, they -- do you know they
destroyed all of the information, all of the evidence, everything, deleted and destroyed
all of it, all of it, because of lots of things.
Like, Nikki Haley is in charge of security.
We offered her 10,000 people, soldiers, National Guard, whatever they want.
They turned it down.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Dr. Blazer, when you watch these two men, Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden, is
it possible at all to gauge their fitness for office?
DR.
DAN BLAZER: I think it's difficult.
I mean, you might look in terms of sort of the tone of what they're saying, people will
make judgment based on that, but in terms of their cognitive function, I think it's
quite difficult.
First off, I think, giving one test or two tests, it's just going to be totally insufficient
to do that.
You need tests that are serial over time to really determine if there really has been
significant deterioration.
But, in addition to that, you need a battery of tests.
And, personally, I think that what is most helpful is an honest opinion from the people
surrounding them who might give the type of information that would say, we believe this
person is actually functioning well or not.
In a political environment, that's going to be very difficult to obtain.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Dr. Ranganath, generally speaking, what are typical signs of cognitive
decline, and when does it tend to impact people and how?
CHARAN RANGANATH: One of the interesting things is, I have seen many, many patients with memory
disorders, and some of them are even on the younger side, and they can be very articulate,
and yet they have disabling memory disorders.
So, the surface looks can be deceiving.
But I like to say there's forgetting and there's forgetting.
So just in terms of lowercase forgetting, that would be the day-to-day stuff that I
think we all do, where you have something, and you know it's there, but you just can't
find it, and then maybe even a few days later, that memory pops up into your head.
And so in a technical term, we call that retrieval failure.
And so these retrieval failures are benign, but they happen a lot as you get older.
Now, separate from that is what I would call forgetting with a capital F. And when you
-- that -- by that, what I mean is that basically the memory is not there.
Maybe it was never formed or maybe it's just gone.
So, for instance, if you misstated, for instance, Egypt and Mexico, or if you had trouble remembering
the year that something happened, I would say, well, that's more in the benign category.
But if you forget that you met the president of Mexico or if you forget significant events
from these important times in your life, then I would say that's a real memory disorder,
because those are things that I would expect people to remember.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Dr. Blazer, you mentioned the political environment.
And there's been a lot of words thrown around this election cycle loaded with partisanship,
words like senile, deranged, dementia.
Do you think any of these have validity?
DR.
DAN BLAZER: Well, they might have validity in some context, but I'm not certain they
have validity here.
That's -- I think that's going to be one of the major challenges we see over the next
year.
And that is, people are going to throw terms around that neuroscientists, that physicians
are going to be -- they have used traditionally for quite different reasons than what are
being used in this particular situation of two candidates who are in the public eye and
who are being asked to make statements about situations that are complex.
And they have to make those statements on the spot.
And they're not given a chance to really correct areas that they may make.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Professor Ranganath, is there a word of advice that you would give
to the public or to the press about making assumptions in this moment about memory or
age or verbal lapses?
CHARAN RANGANATH: Absolutely.
I think, when people hear something like a loaded term like an elderly man with a poor
memory, it just activates all these stereotypes that people have about aging is this inevitable
slide towards senescence, right?
There's actually a lot of abilities that remain stable or even get better with age.
So, for instance, knowledge, like the kind of knowledge that you would hope a president
would have, that remains stable or can even improve.
Likewise, you see things like compassion and emotion regulation that can be improving with
age, or at least remain stable.
I think a lot of what people judge is based on surface characteristics that are dominated
by confidence or by physical presence, rather than the more substantive issues.
'
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Dan Blazer of Duke University and Charan Ranganath of U.C.
Davis, thank you so much for your time.
DR.
DAN BLAZER: You're welcome.
CHARAN RANGANATH: Thanks for having me.
AMNA NAWAZ: The winner of the Republican primary won't be officially decided until the party's
convention this July.
But this past weekend, in the small town of Lexington, Virginia, nearly 2,000 college
students held a convention of their own.
Judy Woodruff visited the conference to speak with young Republicans and Democrats about
their views on politics in America during this unusual primary season.
It's all part of her ongoing series America at a Crossroads.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Despite looking like a wild party, this raucous parade in Lexington, Virginia,
kicked off one of the most accurate political prediction projects in the country, Mock Con,
a simulated convention students at Washington and Lee University have put on every four
years for over a century.
As the students put their creativity and passion on display with floats for each of the 50
states and U.S. territories, some of the biggest names in the Republican Party descended on
their small town.
Donald Trump Jr.
DONALD TRUMP JR., Son of Donald Trump: I want to thank the support that we're seeing out
here, which is absolutely incredible.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Georgia Governor Brian Kemp.
GOV.
BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): So, if there has ever been a time in our country and our nation's capital
when we needed new ideas and fresh perspectives, it would be today.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin.
GOV.
GLENN YOUNGKIN (R-VA): Since 1948, you have been 100 percent accurate in nominating the
eventual Republican nominee.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And many others.
The weekend was the culmination of years of preparation, with students from across the
political spectrum staging a presidential nominating convention of the party that doesn't
currently hold the White House.
So, this year, it was the Republicans' turn.
CONNOR MCNAMARA, President, Washington and Lee University Democrats: Mock Con really
is a, like, bipartisan organization.
We have a lot of liberal students and a lot of conservative students.
JUDY WOODRUFF: On a campus that students say is roughly split between Democrats and Republicans,
98 percent of them participate in Mock Con to try to accurately predict the outcome of
this summer's Republican National Convention, down to the delegate.
Connor McNamara is the president of the college Democrats.
CONNOR MCNAMARA: So, it's been really interesting looking at each state and each -- all the
polling and all the demographic information to see how that affects the race.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Just like the actual Republican primary right now, this year's Mock Con felt
like a foregone conclusion, as former President Trump appears to have all but sewn up the
nomination long before most states cast their votes.
MAN: It's my honor to welcome our next speaker, Donald Trump Jr.
DONALD TRUMP JR.: There is a reason, I can assure you, that they're trying to put my
father in jail for 700 years.
And it's not because anyone really believes January 6 was an insurrection.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But among the students we sat down with, we found views across the spectrum
after they listened to this year's speakers.
What do you make of all the issues out there swirling around former President Trump?
BEAU HANCOCK, Student, Washington and Lee University: What I make of that is, what's
the alternative?
I have seen nothing but more chaos from the Biden administration, from the Trump administration.
Trump, yes, mean tweets.
He's going to say some off-color things, which isn't great.
But, at its core, what's better, a loudmouth president who gets things done, or a quiet,
politically correct president that does nothing for the American people?
JUDY WOODRUFF: Angel Pilkey-Chevez, a self-identified Democrat, not surprisingly, disagreed.
ANGEL PILKEY-CHEVEZ, Student, Washington and Lee University: I think Biden has done a pretty
good job.
There are some grievances.
But I think he's doing a good job with what he's been given.
JUDY WOODRUFF: The students heard different perspectives from other Republican speakers,
like Virginia Governor Youngkin.
GOV.
GLENN YOUNGKIN: We must come together around a nominee with universal support in order
to usher in a new era, not of Republicans versus Democrats, but of an unrivaled America.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And Georgia Governor Kemp.
GOV.
BRIAN KEMP: This election should be about results, not personalities.
It should be about the future of our country, not a race to the bottom.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Robert Mish is a junior on Mock Con's political steering committee who
applauded their focus on the future.
ROBERT MISH, Student, Washington and Lee University: Somewhere along the line, Republicans basically
said we're going to try and align ourselves with Donald Trump.
And I don't think that's a smart strategy, but I'm constantly reminded by people like
Glenn Youngkin, people like Brian Kemp how Republicans can win and also appeal to the
middle of the country, who's not necessarily liberal or conservative, but just wants to
see strong, competent leadership.
Claire Cerone, a senior, wrote this year's Republican platform for Mock Con.
CLAIRE CERONE, The Republican Party platform is a dedication to the American voter.
JUDY WOODRUFF: That process was complicated by the fact that the party hasn't actually
produced a platform since 2016.
Like many students who participated in the research from Mock Con, she had to take a
hard look at the party's current policy positions coming into 2024, as well as her own.
CLAIRE CERONE: I would say I'm more of a moderate Republican.
The platform language, it was just -- it's so different than anything I have ever written
ever, because the rhetoric is so negative.
And a lot of it's just like tearing down Biden and the Democrats and sort of getting at the
other side.
And it's not very, like, goal-focused or like, here's what we're going to do about X, Y and
Z.
I definitely kind of stepped away from this process maybe a little bit less Republican
than I was.
And I guess that's kind of the goal in everything you do, to learn something about yourself.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Was it a particular issue or a collection of issues?
CLAIRE CERONE: I kind of disagree with the party on abortion, gun rights, and some foreign
policy issues.
It was hard to write something I disagree with.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Across the country, a large majority of young Americans align themselves
with Democratic ideas.
And President Biden will need those voters to turn out this fall to hold onto the White
House.
But even among college Democrats like Pilkey-Chevez, there was something to learn from seeing and
studying the other side up close.
ANGEL PILKEY-CHEVEZ: I don't believe all Trump supporters are racist.
They're just very discontent.
And I think Democrats hear everything that's being said.
I don't think they listen to what's being said.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you have confidence that we can get to a place where people can have
disagreements, but not hate each other over it?
ANGEL PILKEY-CHEVEZ: For the most part, people aren't happy with the current political environment.
Maybe being around like all these different views this weekend with Mock Con maybe has
inspired me a little bit.
I am confident that we can push forward.
I think we have so many different people and so many diverse ideas.
I think that does make us stronger.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Student Republicans said they too look forward to a time when the country
isn't so divided.
BEAU HANCOCK: I think the average American doesn't want to hear about politics every
day.
And so I try to surround myself with people like that, because I know that I can be annoying
if I'm just spewing my political views all the time.
ROBERT MISH: I think there's a spotlight on that polarization now and people are kind
of opening their eyes and being like, wow, is this healthy for the people in our country
to spend their lives worrying about disagreements with one another, rather than trying to focus
on the things that bring people together?
JUDY WOODRUFF: Freshman Alex Kagan says he's able to maintain relationships across political
divides.
ALEX KAGAN, Washington and Lee University: I do relate more to people that have similar
values to me, similar life experiences, but I'm able to be friends and I have friends
that politically disagree with me.
And I think that's great.
DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate:
Respect for your school.
I have known a lot of people that have gone to Washington and Lee University.
It's a great school.
I hope I get your endorsement.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
JUDY WOODRUFF: Despite the doubts and questions, Donald Trump got the prediction he wanted.
MAN: The 28th Washington and Lee University Mock Convention has nominated Donald John
Trump.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
JUDY WOODRUFF: It was a 50-state sweep.
As Billy Ray Cyrus brought the convention to a close, the final tally was decisive.
Donald Trump won all but 76 of the 2,429 delegates at stake.
Nikki Haley picked up 64 from seven states in the District of Columbia, Ron DeSantis
took nine, and Vivek Ramaswamy three, both in Iowa.
We will be watching come July to see how close these numbers are to the real GOP convention
outcome.
For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Judy Woodruff in Lexington, Virginia.
GEOFF BENNETT: And before we go, an update to our earlier reporting on today's Super
Bowl parade shooting.
Kansas City police say the number of people with gunshot wounds has risen to 22, eight
of whom have life-threatening injuries, and three suspects are now detained.
AMNA NAWAZ: And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.
I'm Amna Nawaz.
GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.
Thanks for joining us, and have a good evening.