Name: 以色列人跟巴勒斯坦人可以面對面好好說話嗎？（Can Israelis and Palestinians See Eye to Eye? || Creators for Change | Middle Ground）
Uploaded: 2023-10-18T03:50:32.000Z
Duration: 23 min 22 s

過去簡單式

- Because A: it's not your land; B: you mentioned Jerusalem--

首先 因為那不是你的領土 二來 你剛才提到耶路撒冷...

情態助動詞 A2

- Listen, you can't tell me that. Please don't say that.

你不能這樣說...拜託，不要跟我這樣說...

When it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I think I'm mostly emotionally sad.

每當提及以色列人和巴勒斯坦人之間爆發的衝突總是令我觸及傷感

I think it's not fair that, you know, a country that is peaceful be in a situation where we have to be threatened.

我認為在一個和平的國家人們卻仍遭受到威脅 這是不合理的

Being an Arab girl living inside of the Israeli state, it's pretty hard for me to find exactly who I am.

身為一名住在以色列的阿拉伯女子要認清自己的身分很不容易

We still live under occupation, so we have no power.

巴勒斯坦仍舊活在以色列民族的掌控下

I believe that every person, Jew, Christian, Muslim, should be full equal citizens under Israeli sovereignty.

我認為每一位信奉猶太教、基督教或伊斯蘭教的人都應在以色列的統治下而成為對等的公民

We need just to end this conflict between us.

It's because we don't need the other generations to live the life that we live in.

我們不要讓我們的下一代生活在當前的處境

If we continue to do what we did until now, it's probably going to stay, and we need to do something else.

如果我們繼續僵持做同樣的事現況將會停滯不前，而我們必須做些什麼來改善這局面(我們在耶路撒冷找來幾位巴勒斯坦人及以色列人)(針對歷史上雙方民族、至今仍存在著的分歧進行討論)(藉此，他們是否能從中導出中立的觀點)

My name's Hannah Ziad. I'm 24 years old and I'm an Arabian YouTuber.

我的名字是Hannah Ziad 24歲 我是來自阿拉伯的YouTube頻道經營者

My name is Dorit Saadon. I'm 25 years old and I'm a Jewish Israeli Zionist.

我的名字是Dorit25歲 是猶太復國主義運動的一分子

My name is Bara'a Doh. I'm from Nablus, 25 years old, studied public relations and communications.

我的名字是Bara'a來自納布盧斯 25歲 研讀公共關係暨傳播學

I'm from a small town called Giv'at Ze'ev right outside of Jerusalem, and I'm 24 years old.

來自耶路撒冷城外的一個小鎮現在24歲

My name is Arab al-Ameen. I'm 24 years old and I'm from Jerusalem.

My name is Ran Bar-Yoshafat. I'm 34 years old, and I work as a deputy director of a think-tank that deals with law and economics.

我是Ran今年34歲 擔任副經理一職 在一個涉及法律及經濟概況的智囊庫裡

Can I have my Israelis on the left, my Palestinians on the right.

(請歸屬以色列的人站到左邊，歸屬巴勒斯坦的人站到右邊)

The first statement is: someone I know has died because of this conflict.

(第一個議題陳述: 我所認識的人之中，有人是因為兩民族間的衝突而身亡)

Okay, my father was murdered by two IDF soldiers.

我的爸爸被兩名以色列國防軍謀殺

It hit us hard, especially for my family.

We're only girls, and inside of the Arabic nation, that's really hard.

尤其是我們家庭其他成員都是女性，要生活於阿拉伯民族中很困難

My friend when I was 10 years old, an Israeli sniper shot at her on her head.

在我10歲的時候我的朋友被狙擊手擊中頭部死亡

Well, I grew up during the Second Intifada.

I carry a list with me of all my friends who were murdered in terror attacks.

列著與我關係很親近而殉葬於恐攻暴動的人

So I have a list of 27 people, they were actually very close to me.

一共27位他們都在這場暴動中喪命了

In Israel, we have a memorial today, so I have always a dilemma to which grave to go to.

而每當紀念日到來時 心裡總覺得要哀悼的人多得我不知道要從誰先開始追悼

On the 16th of January, 2007, an Israeli soldier shot and killed my sister, Rabir.

在2007的1月16日那天一名以色列士兵對我的妹妹開槍

She was 10 years old, in front of our school, and I was 13.

射殺了當時只有10歲還在學的她而我那時正值13歲

After that, we became two sisters and three brothers.

槍殺事件後 我們只剩下2個姊妹、3個兄弟

All of the people that I know have lost someone to the war in some way, and I think like grief is such a universal emotion.

我所接觸過的人 他們總有因為那場恐攻而失去身邊之人的經歷，讓我切深察覺到「悲痛」是那樣無所不在的情感

And like, really, I want to hug all of you.

I served in the IDF. I still serve in the Army Reserves.

我之前服役於以色列國防軍 (IDF = 以色列國防軍)

Combat. I was very combat in the Second Intifada and I feel your grief and I understand it,

現在仍舊服役於該軍團，我在二次巴勒斯坦大起義中正是以色列國防軍的一員，我能感受到你們的哀痛，我知道很難受

but I have to say that I never got an order to shoot someone the order was only to shoot if someone is thirty rely for a third to someone else's lives

但是我必須說 我從來沒有接收過要射殺任何人的指令，指令只有教導我們在危及人身安全之餘才可以開槍

I also served in the IDF and they really do just teach us to defend ourselves

我也服役於以色列國防軍，軍團的指令真的只有教導我們自我防衛

If we're not defending ourselves, and we do kill someone, we go to jail.

如果我們沒有做到自我防衛而動武造成死傷，我們會被送進監獄

The soldier that killed my sister. He didn't spend one day in there.

殺我妹妹的士兵沒待過一天監獄

Neither did my father both of them that murdered him did not stay one day in jail.

殺死我父親的兩名士兵也沒被關進監獄過

Okay, I think the Palestinian they will not stop saying that we we want we want a country so in the end if we

我是這樣認為的巴勒斯坦人民仍舊嚮往擁有屬於自己的國家

Got to the point that we have our state and they have a state. So no problem

如果說以色列及巴勒斯坦雙方都能承認各自擁有的領土，這個問題就解決了

This is gonna be better for us to live all of us together,

兩方民族能共榮生活在同一塊土地才是上上之策

which is no state like Palestine no state like Israeli only together and having peace together like there is no walls and there is no checkpoints which is happening right now.

也就是說 沒有哪個地區應該是哪一方區區獨自享有而是雙方能夠真正的共享，不要再有圍牆的分隔，移除現行的檢查哨站

I'm with you. One state under Israel's sovereignty and everyone's full equal citizen

我和妳的想法一致。一個國家在以色列的一國統治之下每個人都會是平等的真正公民

Alright, okay, but under Israeli sovereignty because right now I. Why is that a problem?

但這一切實現於以色列國家的整合統治因為現在...這有什麼問題嗎

Why should it be on one? Why should one religion control?

為什麼非得要有一方宗教來統治任一方

It's not a religion, it's a nationality. It's my nationality.

這不關乎宗教 而是自身的國籍歸屬

So if we all want a state with the Palestinian, the Palestinian they control it you can live under it? - No.

所以說 如果有一個巴勒斯坦人這麼告訴你，你可以在巴勒斯坦國家的統治之下與我們共存共享嗎？- 無法

Because A: it's not your land; and B: you mentioned-

因為其一 因為那不是你的領土 其二 你剛剛提及到耶路撒冷....

You can't tell me that, please. Don't say that-

你不能這樣說 拜託 不要跟我這樣說...

I'm saying 100%, Palestine used to maintain-

我要說 肯定的說，巴勒斯坦過去曾...

Can I ask you one question? Please, answer it. Your grand, grand, grandfather. You know where he is?

我可以借問一個問題嗎？拜託回答我，你的曾曾曾祖父 你知道他源自哪裡嗎？

How many how many graves you want me to count?

Seven before. Seven before I know, yes. - Where? - Seven before is in Hungary. In Hungary.

6或7個世代前，我知道7個世代前的祖父來自在哪裡。- 他來自哪裡呢？他來自匈牙利

Nine before (for me) is in Palestine. Don't tell me it's not my land-

9個世代前 巴勒斯坦依舊是巴勒斯坦別告訴我們「這土地不屬於巴勒斯坦人民的」的話

我想表達的是「這塊地不屬於你們的」

It's our land that and it will still and will be.

「屬於巴勒斯坦的就是屬於我們的」將來也不會改變

Like how do you determine this is our land and it's not their land based on what?

你是如何去區分決定這塊土地是我們的而不是他們的是基於什麼之上？

History, international law, and interest.

是有鑒於歷史、國際法、利益與團結之間

好，那從「相互理解」的角度出發呢

I have empathy, I'm just not willing to live to give up on my identity in what I believe is mine.

我對雙方已經有足夠的瞭解，不過我並不想因此而忽略屬於原我的身分

When I say that, I'm afraid what I basically mean is I'm afraid of going into Gaza, because I know that if I will go into Gaza, I might get shot, someone might kill me

當我說「害怕」這個字詞，我真正的意思其實是，我「害怕」步進加薩走廊，因為要是我敢踏進加薩，我很有可能遭人下手殺害

I think I hesitated a little bit because I don't think I'm afraid of the people on the other side.

對於這個問題我猶豫了一下，因為我並不害怕面對另一方族群的人民

I think I'm afraid of the gap and sort of almost equally afraid of like you know that side, taking all of the responsibility for what is happening or this side taking all of the responsibility for what is happening.

我所害怕的是雙方之間的「隔閡」，同樣令我感到害怕的是，總有一方被認為得扛下這一切的過錯與責任

很明顯的這並不能真正解決問題

Well, that's fair enough. I don't believe that all Palestinians are terrorists because that doesn't make sense

如妳所說的，我不認為所有的巴勒斯坦人都是恐怖份子，這並不合理

But I do believe that who is in charge, they're leading the Palestinians to you know, hating us and in a way that you know, it is really unfair

但巴勒斯坦的領導階層對以色列族群帶有憤恨是事實，他們鼓動對立的風向，這對雙方的公民都是不公的

They're not the Islam because Islam didn't didn't say kill killing people or having a blood. Don't believe that.

妳所說的那群人並不是伊斯蘭教信徒，真正的伊斯蘭教沒有教人殺戮或取人鮮血，別被這種言語困惑

The radical Muslims that come and do these things, what do you have to say?

那麼那些口傳:「來，跟我這麼做」的激進穆斯林呢，你怎麼解釋

They're not part of us. We never accept them as Muslims because they're teaching hate and in a way I accepted what you just said about there's a big problem with our governments.

他們與我們不同於一流，我們從沒承認他們是穆斯林，他們教導人們憤恨，另一方面，我認同妳所說的，雙方的政府當局之間有很大的溝通障礙

They don't know how to talk to each other and in my idea I really think the people or the ones I should be talking to each other.

他們不懂得有效的溝通，以我的觀點來說，你我之間的溝通更是至關重要

I agree and I have to say also don't think there's an issue with Muslims.

我同意妳說的，我亦不認為這關乎到穆斯林

But I disagree with you about the fact it's about plans. There are several peace talks. They were offered 97 percent of the land.

但我對於妳所陳述的領土計畫持相反意見，事實上 和平談判沒有間斷，談判中釋讓了百分之97的領土

實際可能給到百分之98 卻沒有得到同意，

But after deciding with the land they came and they built more settlements.

在他們談妥領域範圍後，以色列卻在境內建造更多的定所

What's wrong with that? What's wrong with Jews living in Judea?

猶太人在猶地亞生活有什麼不對的 (以色列定居點:以色列在1967年六日戰爭所奪取土地，並建立猶太人社區)

That's not the problem. The problem is is that we actually talked about this land being for these people and in the end when we see Israelis coming in and actually building houses that's showing us you guys don't want peace.

那不是癥結所在，真正的問題出於以色列在成立的土地協議之餘，以色列卻又越境建蓋 ，這表示出以色列並不想實現和平

[I trust my sources of information on the conflict.]

[我對於自己所接收的資訊出處抱持信任]

I serve in the IDF so first of all I trust myself and my officers.

我服役於以色列國防軍，我相信自己也信任於長官

I do think that a lot of the information I'm getting is not accurate, which is why I've tried to compare it with different sources and I also try to see it from people, what they think what they feel.

但我認為我所得到的資訊也會參雜錯誤訊息，所以我會嘗試參考不同來源的資訊，我也會站在在不同族群的角度，揣測他們對事件的看法

I don't trust everything I see on the news, that's for sure. I do believe again there are two sides to every single story.

當然我不信任我在新聞中所看到的一切，我認為任何事件報導都一定有兩面說詞

But I do see things that are happening for instance you know things like the the rockets that are striking or the stabs that are happening.

我相信我真眼看見的、正在發生的，像是飛彈攻擊、人們互相殘殺

Those things I do trust because I can see that they're happening and they're just unfair.

這些我當然相信是真正發生在現實當中

Like I see the the narrative being written I was like I watch TV.

我看見新聞是如何報導，相比我正在電視上所看見的

I know how important and how powerful language is and how it can create reality,

我意識到傳播的語言是多麼有影響力又多麼重要，報導可以塑造出「現實」

and like I can I can see it, like this is really dangerous like on both sides it's really dangerous.

我認為這是極其危險可怕的，這對於雙方人民都是有害的

If you see is media that I see they're always against Israel for things that are not necessarily our fault.

我看到了很多媒體報導總是責備、反對以色列，但這些事件報導中以色列多半是無辜的

I find it very funny because we look at it as and start saying that they're really with Israel, which is funny.

聽起來滿有趣的，當我聽著我們的討論，說著「他們與以色列是同邊的」這聽起來挺有趣的

But no, I seriously do find the information that we're getting has more as an agenda to it from both sides.

不過當然我有強烈意識到，我們所得到的資訊大多是要帶出待議議題

I don't believe in social media like from the Israeli side, I'm gonna support Israel and from the Palestinian side, gonna support Palestinians.

無論是以色列或巴勒斯坦，我不相信社交媒體上的資訊，因為來自以色列的社交媒體必定會支持以色列的作為，相反地 巴勒斯坦人也會支持自己人

People gonna be very confused and I'm gonna be very confused about the reality.

視聽人勢必會覺得很困惑，對我們所在的現實世界感到無所適從

So the question was the sources so it doesn't have to be just social media and the reports like this like I also trust the reports that the Israeli security forces publish.

所以我們講的是資訊的「出處」，沒有說一定要把社交媒體作為唯一可靠的資訊來源，或是相類似的報導，像我，我相信以色列安全部隊的刊登報導

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以色列人跟巴勒斯坦人可以面對面好好說話嗎？（Can Israelis and Palestinians See Eye to Eye? || Creators for Change | Middle Ground）

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