He's been speaking to our science editor, Rebecca Morrell.

他一直在和我們的科學編輯麗貝卡-莫雷爾交談。

You've been down to the Titanic Recite many times.

你已經下到泰坦尼克號上背誦了許多次。

You've been even deeper.

你已經更深入了。

You did the first solo dive to the bottom of the Mariana.

你做了第一次單獨下潛到馬里亞納海底的工作。

You, you came out and saw my sub before I made that dive and I took you through the whole, you even, you even sat inside it.

你，在我潛水之前，你出來看到了我的潛水艇，我帶你看了整個，你甚至，你甚至坐在裡面。

So you kind of know what it feels like to be inside.

所以你有點知道里面是什麼感覺。

A and that sub went to three times Titanic Depth quite literally uh safely.

那艘潛艇的深度是泰坦尼克號的三倍，實際上是安全的。

I'd like to point out, you know, when, when people go down to a place like Titanic as um let's call it a citizen explorer, right?

我想指出，你知道，當，當人們下到像泰坦尼克這樣的地方，作為嗯讓我們稱之為公民探險家，對嗎？

I don't like tourists.

我不喜歡遊客。

I think somebody that's willing to spend that kind of money and do that kind of preparation and devote weeks of their life.

我認為有人願意花那樣的錢，做那樣的準備，並投入他們生命中的幾個星期。

They're a citizen explorer.

他們是一個公民探險家。

Um If they shouldn't have to worry about the vehicle that they're in, worry about Titanic because it's a, it's a dangerous site, you know, for entanglement and collapse.

嗯，如果他們不應該擔心他們所在的車輛，擔心泰坦尼克號，因為它是一個，這是一個危險的地方，你知道，對於糾纏和崩潰。

You could have a structural collapse on the sub and it's a very dangerous site.

你可能會在潛艇上發生結構性坍塌，這是一個非常危險的地方。

But understand the risks, agree to those risks.

但要了解風險，同意這些風險。

But, but don't be in a situation where you haven't been told about the risks of the actual platform that you're diving in there.

但是，但是不要在沒有被告知實際平臺的風險的情況下，你在那裡潛水。

In the 21st century.

在21世紀。

There shouldn't be any risk.

不應該有任何風險。

We've managed to make it through 60 years from 1960 until today, 63 years without a fatality.

從1960年到今天，我們已經成功地度過了60年，63年沒有發生過死亡事故。

And most people don't know this, no fatalities, no major accidents and deep submergence.

而大多數人不知道這一點，沒有死亡，沒有重大事故和深潛。

There are a couple of fatalities with very shallow operating subs in the, in the late sixties.

在60年代末，有幾起在非常淺的操作潛艇上的死亡事件。

But that's longer ago than the time from, you know, the Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk to, to the 1st 7 40 sevens flying.

但是，這比從萊特兄弟在小鷹島到第一次7-40年代飛行的時間要長。

So you can imagine there's been a lot of development in between.

所以你可以想象，這中間有很多的發展。

So, you know, one of the saddest aspects of this is how preventable it really was, you know, and, and that to me is the, the greatest heartbreak of the whole thing.

所以，你知道，這件事最悲哀的一個方面是，它真的是可以預防的，你知道，而且，對我來說，這是整個事件中最大的心傷。

Well, I wanted to ask about that because I mean, you, you know, a lot of about submersibles having designed your own one, but safety concerns had been raised with.

好吧，我想問一下這個問題，因為我的意思是，你，你知道，很多關於潛水器的東西都是你自己設計的，但安全問題已經被提出來了。

Absolutely.

絕對的。

And they should be raised, they should be raised because they cut corners.

而且他們應該被提高，他們應該被提高，因為他們偷工減料。

They, they, they used unproven experimental technology on a sub that took passengers and to me that's inexcusable and they were uncertified and they knew that cert the certification process would not approve the technologies that they adopted.

他們，他們，他們在一艘載有乘客的潛艇上使用未經證實的實驗技術，對我來說，這是不可原諒的，他們沒有經過認證，他們知道認證程序不會準許他們採用的技術。

I think it's fine to be an innovator.

我認為做一個創新者是沒有問題的。

You know, the sub that, that you sat in that, that we built and that I operated to the, to the deepest place on the planet was an experimental craft.

你知道，你坐的那艘潛艇，我們建造的，我操作的，到地球上最深的地方去的，是一個實驗性的飛船。

I own it, it was not certified, it was an experimental craft, just like, you know, the Mercury and Gemini and Apollo rockets were experimental craft.

我擁有它，它沒有得到認證，它是一個實驗性的飛船，就像，你知道，水星和雙子星以及阿波羅火箭是實驗性的飛船。

They weren't certified but they weren't taking passengers either.

他們沒有經過認證，但也不接受乘客。

You know, I think the second that you create a business model around asking people for a quarter of a million dollars to take them to some place.

你知道，我認為在你圍繞著向人們索取25萬美元來帶他們去某個地方而創造一個商業模式的時候。

You have to ensure their safety.

你必須確保他們的安全。

You have to jump through every possible hoop and you have to listen to the consensus in the engineering community.

你必須跳過所有可能的障礙，你必須聽取工程界的共識。

You know, I, I would submit that.

你知道，我，我想提出這一點。

There's a terrible irony here, here we have at the, at the wreck of Titanic, we now have another wreck that is based on.

這裡有一個可怕的諷刺，在這裡，在泰坦尼克號的殘骸上，我們現在有另一個基於的殘骸。

Unfortunately, the same principles of not heeding warnings.

不幸的是，不聽警告的原則也是如此。

Ocean Gate were worn.

海洋之門被磨損。

They had people working internally apparently that, that basically quit.

他們有一些人在內部工作，顯然，他們基本上辭職了。

They had some of us, I wasn't involved directly but there were some of us in the deep submergence community that got together and wrote a letter to them saying we believe that you are going on a path to catastrophe.

他們讓我們中的一些人，我沒有直接參與，但我們中的一些人在深潛界聚在一起，給他們寫了一封信，說我們相信你們正在走向災難之路。

That's a rough quote, something like that.

這是一個粗略的報價，類似的東西。

And we all have, you know, a concern here because it will be a setback for the deep submergence community because of this because of the, you know, the, the let's call it poor choices.

我們都有，你知道，在這裡有一個擔憂，因為這將是深潛界的一個挫折，因為這是因為，你知道，讓我們稱之為糟糕的選擇。

I don't wanna say reckless, but let's say poor choices that were made filmmaker and Submersible expert James Cameron there.

我不想說魯莽，但讓我們說說電影製片人和潛水器專家詹姆斯-卡梅隆在那裡做出的糟糕選擇。