Take a look at this: the quality of knockoffs today is at a whole new level and that is causing tremendous problems for brands selling the real deal.

現在的仿冒品品質已經達到了一個全新的水準，這給銷售真貨的品牌帶來了巨大的問題。

Fake bags have been developed so well they can trick nearly everyone.

仿包經做到非常逼真，幾乎可以騙過所有人。

And the market right now is booming, fueled by social media users and influencers showing off their hyper-realistic replicas.

而如今仿冒品的市場蓬勃發展得益於社交媒體用戶和網紅向大眾展示他們超逼真的仿冒品。

Amy Wang is here with us now. She is an assistant managing editor for the New York Times Magazine and you wrote about this, Amy, welcome.

Amy Wan 今天加入我們的節目。她是《紐約時報雜誌》的助理主編，而 Amy 對這個問題進行了報導。歡迎你上本節目。

- So we're just gonna dive right into this 'cause you brought along two samples for us to basically examine. - Thank you for having me.

- 我們現在要來深入討論這個問題，因為你帶來了兩個樣品供我們進行基本的檢查。- 感謝你們邀請我來。

Okay, let's see.

來看看吧。

We don't know. So is one of these fake and one of these is real?

我們事前並不知道。所以其中一個是假的，一個是真的？

That's the thinking unless you guys disagree.

理論上是這樣，除非你們不同意。

They told me not to tell you.

他們叫我不要告訴你們。

You can smell it. You can fondle the bag. Do whatever you need to do to...

你可以聞一聞，摸一摸包包。做任何你需要做的事情...

I have to tell you, I cannot tell. I mean, the stitching looks good on this, it smells like real leather.

我必須說，我分辨不出來。我的意思是，這個包的縫線看起來很好，它聞起來像真皮。

I cannot tell. It seems real. Same as this. I look at the stitching and that seems to be good quality.

我分辨不出來。它看起來很真實，這個也是。這個縫線，感覺質感很好。

Any guesses?

要猜看看嗎？

- Doesn't quite smell like leather to me, this one. - I'm gonna guess...

- 這個我覺得聞起來不太像真皮。- 我猜...

This is Gucci. I'm gonna say, the smaller one is real, the larger one is fake.

這是古馳。我猜，小的是真的，大的是假的。

Interesting. Would you agree?

真有趣。你認同嗎？

No, I actually would have said the opposite that this is fake and this real.

不，我覺得是相反的，小的是假的，大的是真的。

Well, I guess this is a good moment to reveal that both of these are fake. The two bags are both counterfeit bags, purchased from China.

我想現在是適合公佈答案了，這兩個都是假的。這兩個包都是仿的，在中國購買的。

And this categorization (is) known as super fakes which are bags that are now so realistic that the average person or even an expert or even an authenticator or person at the actual boutique can't tell.

這種包包被歸類為「超級仿冒品」，這些包包非常逼真，以至於普通人、專家、甚至是真正的名牌店內的工作人員都無法分辨出來。

So what are you discovering about how bags are becoming super fakes now because I thought there used to be a smell test, there's a quality test.

關於包包如何變得超級仿冒品，你有什麼新的發現嗎？因為我知道以前有味道、品質確認的測試。

I've exhausted everything that I know how to cut try and look at which is very minimal.

我已經盡我所能地用有限的方法來研究和觀察這兩個假包了。

So what's happening? I know a lot of these bags (are) being manufactured in China.

到底發生了什麼事呢？我知道很多假包都是在中國製造的。

Right, so we used to be familiar with this sort of Canal Street breed of bag where you're like "Oh, that's so clearly a fake bag." You know, the stitching's all off, the color is all wrong.

我們以前對這種類型的包包非常熟悉，像是運河街的仿冒品，一眼就看得出是假包，因為縫線都不對，顏色也是錯的。

But there are a couple (of) factors that have contributed to the rise of super fakes. Two, on the demand side of things, one is that consumers are being asked to pay higher and higher prices, right?

但有一些因素促成了超級仿冒品的崛起。首先，在需求方面，其中一個因素是消費者買包支付的費用越來越高，對吧？

Like a Chanel handbag actually costs ten thousand dollars or more now.

像是一個香奈兒的包包現在要價一萬美元或更高。

And that's an extraordinary price to ask out of people who are feeling squeezed, who are feeling impacts of a recession and might not have high enough salaries to even afford their their average daily life but would like a luxury.

這對那些有壓力、受到經濟衰退影響且可能薪水不高、連日常生活負擔都不起的人們來說是非常高昂的價格，但他們仍然希望能夠擁有奢侈品。

And then secondly, they want to shop in a convenient way.

其次，他們希望用便利的方式購物。

People are used to buying on Instagram, on AliExpress, on DHgate, on Amazon, so there's no real sort of fear of buying a good online now.

人們習慣在 Instagram、全球速賣通、敦煌網和亞馬遜等平台上購物，所以現在大眾不會害怕在網上購買商品。

And if you're being advertised an ad on Instagram for a fake bag, you might as well take that up, right?

如果你在 Instagram 上看到一個仿包的廣告，你可能就會選擇購買，對吧？

You're like, "Well, it's a hundred dollars. If I pay a hundred there for that and I pay a hundred dollars for a meal at a restaurant, what's there to lose?"

你可能會想：「這只要一百美元。如果我在餐廳吃一頓餐也要一百美元，那還有什麼好損失的呢？」

So these sellers in China are also getting very savvy at the same time and realizing they can advertise over these new sales channels.

中國的這些賣家同時也變得非常精明，他們意識到可以在這些新的銷售渠道上進行廣告宣傳。

And they're also getting better organized within themselves; the labor chains are better organized, the technology is better organized.

而且他們之間的組織也變得更加有序；勞工鏈也變得更加有組織，技術也更加成熟。

And then, of course, most importantly, the selling of it is just so easy when you can just create an ad on Instagram, put it out to a bunch of American women and across the globe seamlessly conduct the sort of sale that would not be possible before.

當然，最重要的是，現在銷售仿冒商品變得非常容易，你只需要在 Instagram 上建立一個廣告，並推送給一大群美國女性和世界各地的人，無縫地進行銷售，而這在過去是不可能的辦到的。

Yeah, so Amy, what does all this mean for designer brands themselves, how are they responding to those?

Amy，這個現象對設計師品牌本身來說代表什麼，他們對此作出了怎樣的回應呢？

Yeah, so naturally, designer brands are pretty worried about how to address the problem and they're spending billions of dollars in these sorts of trade organizations, trying to counter and tackle counterfeits.

這些品牌自然非常擔心如何應對這個問題，他們正在花費數十億美元在這些貿易組織上，試圖打擊和應對假貨。

But U.S. customs, for example (to use one example of a border patrol group), only has so many people, and they can only inspect about five percent (that's estimated about five percent) of what comes into the border.

但例如美國海關（以一個邊境巡邏組織為例）只有有限的人力，他們只能檢查大約百分之五（根據估計約為百分之五）進入邊境的物品。

So it seems like a really great odd or great stakes for people who are interested in buying bags like you only have a five percent risk of getting something seized.

因此，對於有興趣購買假包的人來說，這似乎是一個非常有利可圖的情況，因為你的貨品只有百分之五的風險遭到扣押。

And I wonder if the perception of customers has also changed because there is a considerable markup for actual designer handbags, right?

我也想知道顧客的觀念是否也有所改變，因為名牌包的標價通常有相當大的利潤空間，對吧？

It did not cost the company ten thousand dollars to make the handbag, so I'm wondering if consumers now have a lower guilt level in purchasing a fake. Have you found that?

製作包包的成本不到一萬美元，所以我想知道消費者是否對購買仿冒品的內疚感有所降低。你有發現這個情況嗎？

That's exactly right. There have actually been some studies that Gen Z in particular is more interested than ever than any other generation in purchasing fakes,

你說得沒錯。事實上有一些研究表明，尤其是 Z 世代的消費者比以往任何一個世代更有興趣購買仿冒品，

and by some estimates, around 60 or 70 percent of young people of Gen Zers have bought consciously a counterfeit item and been happy about it.

且根據一些估計，約有六成至七成的 Z 世代年輕人有意識地購買過仿冒品，並對此感到滿意。

They (have) intentionally gotten by the 200-dollar version rather than the 10,000-dollar version because they see it as a sort of subversive,

他們故意購買 200 美元的假貨，而不是一萬美元的真品，因為他們認為這是一種顛覆性的行為，

like, "stick it to the man," like, I don't want to give any more money to the bottom line of LVMH. I'd rather, you know, do something really subversive and cool.

就像「反擊權威」一樣，他們不想再為 LVMH 集團貢獻更多的利潤。他們寧願，做一些具有顛覆性和酷炫的事情。

So that kind of vibe is definitely pervasive amongst people.

所以這種氛圍在人們之間確實普遍存在。

I think people realize that as there's widening wealth disparity across the globe too, it's sort of difficult to be putting your money into something that you feel like you're not totally getting the value of.

我認為人們也意識到，在全球財富差距日益擴大的情況下，把錢投入到你覺得並沒有完全獲得其價值的東西中是有些困難的。

Yeah, people I guess are becoming a bit more conscientious about what they're putting their money towards, but really fascinating to see I definitely got that wrong.

是的，我猜人們更有意識地投資東西，但很有趣的是，我錯看這兩個包了。

I think Elaine is taking both of them. Thanks for the gifts. Thanks, Amy.

我想 Elaine 會把它們都帶走。謝謝 Amy 你帶來的禮物。

Errol, we're not taking them. Amy, thank you so much.

Errol，我們沒有要把它們帶走。Amy 非常謝謝你。

Thank you so much for having me.

謝謝你們邀請我來。