We are much more capable of learning skills

我們學習技能的能力更強

than let's say, our Australopithecus ancestors

比方說，我們的澳洲人祖先

a few million years ago.

幾百萬年前。

When I was 19,

當我19歲的時候。

I bizarrely ended up getting an internship

我很奇怪地最終得到了一份實習工作

at a merchant bank.

在一家商業銀行。

And in that bank, we had a manager,

而在那家銀行裡，我們有一個經理。

and he would pepper his talks with us

他在與我們的談話中加入了很多內容

with this kind of Darwinian language.

與這種達爾文式的語言。

"Banking is a survival of the fittest.

"銀行業是一個適者生存的行業。

You know, it's a dog eat dog world out there.

你知道，外面是一個狗咬狗的世界。

Life is a continuous process of competition."

生活是一個不斷競爭的過程"。

The truth is, evolutionary history just

事實是，進化的歷史只是

isn't a constant competition.

並不是一個持續的競爭。

Actually, most animals spend as much time

事實上，大多數動物花了同樣多的時間

as they can relaxing, taking it easy

因為他們可以放鬆，輕鬆地對待

or playing and enjoying themselves.

或玩耍和享受自己。

This idea that everything is continuously battling

這種認為一切都在不斷爭鬥的想法

for energy is nonsense.

對於能源來說，這是無稽之談。

I spent most

我花了大部分時間

of the last 25 years documenting hunter-gatherers,

在過去的25年裡，記錄了狩獵採集者。

as they took their worldview

因為他們把他們的世界觀

and tried to engage with our worldview

並試圖與我們的世界觀接觸

in very uneven terms,

在非常不平衡的條件下。

and to try and make sense

並努力使之合理化

of their perceptions of work and our perceptions of work.

他們對工作的看法和我們對工作的看法。

And what it did was it revealed

而它所做的就是揭示了

an entirely different way of thinking,

一個完全不同的思維方式。

an entirely different way of being.

一種完全不同的存在方式。

My name's James Suzman,

我的名字是詹姆斯-蘇茲曼。

I'm an anthropologist, and the title

我是一個人類學家，而這個題目

of my latest book is called "Work: A Deep History,

我的新書名為《工作》。一部深刻的歷史。

from the Stone Age to the Age of Robots."

從石器時代到機器人時代"。

When one thinks about hunter-gatherer society,

當人們想到獵人-採集者社會時。

they have have imagined a world

他們已經想象出一個世界

in which we endure this horrendous struggle

我們在其中忍受著這場可怕的鬥爭

for survival in an eat or be eaten world.

在一個不食人間煙火的世界裡生存。

Nature was red and tooth and claw, and life was hard,

大自然紅紅火火，張牙舞爪，生活很艱苦。

and we learned to accumulate and grab resources.

而且我們學會了積累和攫取資源。

It was a great competition for life.

這是一場偉大的生命競爭。

But it seems fairly clear, we enjoyed quite a lot

但似乎相當清楚，我們享有相當多的

of leisure time as hunter-gatherers.

的閒暇時間作為狩獵-採集者。

20 years ago I went off

20年前，我離開了

to the Kalahari to start working with a group

在卡拉哈里，他開始與一個團體合作。

of people called the Ju/'hoansi.

的人稱為Ju/'hoansi。

The Ju/'hoansi were the first

朱/霍安西人是第一個

hunter-gatherer society that were really studied to

真正被研究的狩獵-採集社會的人

see how hard they actually worked,

看看他們實際工作有多努力。

and it was revealed

並揭示了

that they worked 15 hours in a week,

他們在一個星期內工作了15個小時。

and a very different work ethos

和一個非常不同的工作精神

to what we do here in the West.

與我們在西方所做的一樣。

The idea of what constitutes work

關於什麼是工作的想法

in the way we organize our lives can be very different,

在我們組織生活的方式上可能會有很大的不同。

and very contextual-based:

而且非常基於背景。

Hunting, gathering, fishing, hiking.

狩獵、採集、釣魚、遠足。

In the Ju/'hoansi world, those are all considered work.

在Ju/'hoansi的世界裡，這些都被視為工作。

In the western world,

在西方世界。

where I come from at the moment,

我此刻來自哪裡。

most of those things are considered leisure activities now.

這些事情中的大多數現在都被認為是休閒活動。

The Inuit and the Arctic,

因紐特人和北極。

the Aboriginals in Australia,

澳洲的原住民。

and then of course people

然後當然是人

like the Ju/'hoansi

像Ju/'hoansi人

engage with the land with consummate skill

熟能生巧地與土地打交道

and consummate, in some ways, ease.

和完美的，在某些方面，輕鬆。

The Kalahari desert where the Ju/'hoansi live

卡拉哈里沙漠，Ju/'hoansi人生活的地方

is an incredibly tough environment.

是一個令人難以置信的艱難環境。

It's the kind of place where, most of us,

它是那種，我們大多數人。

if we're dumped there

如果我們被扔在那裡

without any prior knowledge of how to do things,

沒有任何關於如何做事的事先知識。

we would be dead within several days.

我們會在幾天內死亡。

The Ju/'hoansi, on the other hand, are able somehow

另一方面，Ju/'hoansi人能夠以某種方式

out of this seemingly desolate place to pluck

從這個看似荒涼的地方摘取了

out 130 or so different plant species.

出130種左右的不同植物物種。

- They're able to hunt 15 or 20 animal species.

- 他們能夠獵取15或20個動物物種。

They are so skilled and so attuned

他們是如此的熟練，如此的默契

to that environment that they're able to do so

在這種環境下，他們能夠做到這一點。

on the basis of, really, a marginal amount of effort.

的基礎上，真正的，一個邊緣量的努力。

Even in the toughest times of year, you're looking

即使在一年中最艱難的時候，你也在尋找

at not spending more than four or five hours a day

在每天不超過四或五個小時的時間裡

on the food quest.

在食物的追求上。

And you're looking at the best times

而你正在看的是最好的時間

of year, people are able to simply pluck things.

年，人們能夠簡單地摘取東西。

It's almost a bit like a, a magical kind of 7/11.

它幾乎有點像一個，一個神奇的7/11的那種。

Now, of course it sounds a little bit idyllic,

現在，當然這聽起來有點像田園詩。

and hunter-gatherers went through intensely difficult times,

和狩獵採集者經歷了強烈的困難時期。

periods of climatic change. But for the most part,

氣候變化的時期。但在大多數情況下。

living off the land seemed a very straightforward way

靠土地生活似乎是一個非常直接的方式

of making a living,

謀生的手段。

and we are supremely adapted to making a living

而且我們非常適應謀生的需要

as hunters and gatherers.

作為狩獵者和採集者。

Hunter-gatherer societies,

獵人-採集者社會。

they are typically highly egalitarian.

他們是典型的高度平等主義。

Richard Lee, an anthropologist

理查德-李，一位人類學家

who worked with the Ju/'hoansi,

他與Ju/'hoansi人一起工作。

he used the word "fiercely egalitarian,"

他使用了 "激烈的平等主義 "一詞。

and I haven't found a better way to describe it.

而且我還沒有找到更好的方式來描述它。

There are no hierarchies whatsoever.

沒有任何等級之分。

Age does not convey any authority to anybody.

年齡並不向任何人傳遞任何權力。

Gender does not convey any authority to anybody.

性別並不向任何人傳遞任何權力。

It's incredibly open and tolerant.

它是令人難以置信的開放和寬容的。

People don't force things on children

人們不會把事情強加給孩子

but they also realize that there's an instinct.

但他們也意識到，有一種本能。

In particular, they say not among women, but among men.

特別是，他們說不是在婦女中，而是在男人中。

Young men who go out hunting and they bring in

出去打獵的年輕人，他們帶來了

their first big animal, they'll strut in and show off,

他們的第一隻大動物，他們會大搖大擺地進來炫耀。

they'll say that potentially risks upsetting their

他們會說，這有可能擾亂他們的生活。

egalitarian balance that makes the society function.

平等主義的平衡，使社會運作。

Rather than praise a successful hunter, they mock them.

他們不是讚美一個成功的獵人，而是嘲笑他們。

Somebody shows up if they've killed a giraffe-

如果有人殺了一隻長頸鹿，就會出現在這裡。

which is something huge, and it's enough to feed everybody

這是一個巨大的東西，它足以養活所有人

for ages, and the meat's growing from the branches-

漫長的歲月裡，肉從樹枝上長出來......。

they'll say, "Ah, this giraffe, a bit of a scrawny giraffe,

他們會說，"啊，這隻長頸鹿，有點瘦小的長頸鹿。

and it stinks a little bit."

而且有點臭。"

And there's this great ritual

還有這個偉大的儀式

of humility and insult that goes on,

的謙卑和侮辱，繼續下去。

and the hunter will be expected to behave

而獵人將被期望表現出

with great humility and the way it was described by one man,

帶著極大的謙卑和一個人描述的方式。

he said, "We use it to gentle young mens' paths."

他說，"我們用它來溫柔地對待年輕人的道路"。

To enable leadership to be based purely

為了使領導層能夠純粹地基於

on context and competence.

關於背景和能力。

Voluntarily given and voluntarily accepted resources

自願提供和自願接受的資源

which are shared openly and evenly

公開、公平地分享這些成果

and done through a system of demand sharing.

並通過需求共享系統完成。

In the system of demand sharing,

在需求共享的體系中。

it is in the right of pretty much anybody to go

任何人都有權利去做。

and ask anybody else for a share of what they have.

並向其他人索要他們所擁有的份額。

And it is considered extremely rude to turn that person

而且，把這個人轉過來被認為是非常不禮貌的。

down under any circumstances.

在任何情況下，都不會被擊倒。

Stops any kind of authority.

阻止任何形式的權力。

This enabled food and resources to flow very evenly

這使得食物和資源能夠非常均勻地流動

and very quickly through society.

並非常迅速地通過社會。

The truth is now, very few zoologists,

現在的事實是，很少有動物學家。

in fact, no zoologist or ecologist will think

事實上，沒有動物學家或生態學家會認為

of an ecosystem as governed by competition,

競爭所支配的生態系統。

instead it would be governed

相反，它將被治理

by webs of intricate engagements

錯綜複雜的約定之網

some of which are cooperative, some of which are less.

其中有些是合作性的，有些則較少。

This idea that nature is a constant competition

這種認為自然界是一個不斷競爭的概念

for life is nonsense.

對於生命來說是無稽之談。

Hunter-gatherers, like the Ju/'hoansi,

獵人-採集者，如Ju/'hoansi人。

described their environment

描述他們的環境

as a kind of continuous flow of give and take

作為一種連續的付出和回報的流動

between species and interactions.

物種和相互作用之間的關係。

There's absolutely no denying that

絕對不可否認的是

the extraordinary attitudes that evolved

逐漸形成的非凡態度

during the hunter-gatherer era

狩獵-採集時代

have now brought us incredible benefits.

現在已經給我們帶來了難以置信的好處。

We are both incredibly adaptable

我們都有令人難以置信的適應能力

and culturally intransigent.

和文化上的頑固性。

When change is forced upon us,

當變化被強加在我們身上時。

we're really good at adapting to it.

我們真的很善於適應它。

We are amazingly good at doing it,

我們在這方面做得很好，令人驚訝。

but only when we have no choice.

但只有在我們別無選擇的時候。

And I think what we might see is a restructuring

我認為我們可能看到的是一個重組

and reorganization of our society.

和改組我們的社會。

Identities now which are far more hybridized.

現在的身份是更加混雜的。

We certainly have a work identity through our Zoom channel.

通過我們的Zoom頻道，我們當然有一個工作身份。

But for many people, I think, there'll be an opportunity to

但我認為，對許多人來說，會有一個機會來

reengage themselves in physical space that they are in,

重新參與到他們所處的物理空間中。

and I think it's going to profoundly reorganize the way

我認為這將深刻地重組

we think about community, identity, belonging, and self.

我們對社區、身份、歸屬和自我的思考。

Economists say, 'We are all universally

經濟學家說，"我們都是普遍的

this kind of selfish beast.'

這種自私的畜生'。

Anthropologists, on the other hand,

另一方面，人類學家。

take the very starting point of their experience, is based

以他們的經驗為出發點，是基於

on generally going up and living somewhere where

在一般情況下，他們會去住在某個地方

all your most fundamental and basic ideas about how

你的所有最基本和最基本的想法，關於如何

the world works are often turned on their heads.

世界的運作常常被顛覆。

It's a fundamental transition.

這是一個基本的過渡。

It upsets your sense of the world.

它擾亂了你對世界的感覺。

Then anthropologists, I think, are based

那麼人類學家，我想，是基於

on having this double perspective of

在擁有這種雙重視角的情況下

being in one world and from another,

處於一個世界，來自另一個世界。

and then being able to look back

然後能夠回頭看

in the world that they're from.

在他們所處的世界裡。

And frankly, I think it would be good

坦率地說，我認為這將是好事

if we still lived in a world where people

如果我們仍然生活在一個人們

could experience another way

可以體驗另一種方式

of living and being to the point

的生活和存在的點

that it makes the strange familiar,

它使陌生的東西變得熟悉。

and the familiar strange.

和熟悉的陌生。