with some people publicly venting their anger at leaders of the Communist Party.

一些人民公開向共和黨領導人發洩他們的怒氣。

Thousands of protesters took to the streets of Shanghai, calling for President Xi Jinping to step down.

數千名抗議人士走上上海街頭，要求習近平主席下台。

The BBC saw people being bundled into police cars.

BBC 團隊看到了人民被塞進警車。

These images are from Beijing, where students gathered at the elite Qinghua University.

這些影像北京，學生聚集在菁英學府清華大學。

And, there, hundreds called for democracy, rule of law, and freedom of expression.

數百名人士在那裡呼籲民主、法治以及言論自由。

Students also demonstrated at the University of Nanjing.

也有學生在南京大學進行示威。

Well, the protests began after a deadly fire in the western city of Urumqi.

嗯，這些抗議活動是在西部城市烏魯木齊發生致命火災後開始的。

Some blame COVID controls for delaying putting that fatal fire out.

一些人將延誤撲滅致命火災咎責於新冠規範。

Well, we talk now to our Asia-Pacific regional editor for BBC World Service, Michael Bristow, who's here with me in the studio.

那我們現在要跟 BBC 國際頻道亞太區編輯 Michael Bristow 對話，他現在也在攝影棚中。

Michael, there have been protests before about COVID restrictions, but how significant are these?

Michael，以前也曾有經過針對新冠規範的抗議，但這次抗議活動有多重要？

Because they seem to be quite political, calling, even, for the resignation of the country's leader Xi Jinping.

因為它們似乎高度政治相關，甚至要求國家領導人習近平辭職。

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the key point.

是，我覺得那是關鍵點。

Despite the fact there's censorship's in China, there are⏤and there have been for many years⏤protests across the country,

儘管中國有監控制度、全國上下也一直持續發生抗議活動，

these are mostly local incidents, isolated incidents for specific issues.

這些大多是局部事件，是針對特定議題的單一事件。

Also, over recent months, (there) have been increasing number of protests about the strict COVID restrictions that have been put in place in China.

此外，近幾個月來，針對中國實行的嚴格新冠規範，發生了越來越多次抗議。

But these are different because they're making a direct call for political action, political change, most notably, calling for Xi Jinping to stand down.

但這些是不同的，因為他們直接要求了政治行動、政治改變，其中最引人注目的就是要求習近平下台。

Now, I can't remember, over the last several years, for any demonstrations to be calling for something like that.

我不記得在過去數年中，有任何示威活動提出任何類似的訴求。

In some ways, it's not surprising, because Xi Jinping has championed this policy⏤China zero-COVID policy is his policy.

就某些方面來說，這不令人意外，因為習近平捍衛了這個政策，中國「清零」措施是他的政策。

He's maintained it, he's promoted it.

他維護並推廣此政策。

So, it's not really unusual that he should now be getting the blame when people are feeling the effects of these continuous lockdowns.

所以在人們感受到持續封鎖政策的影響時，他被責怪其實不太奇怪。

And how worried do you think he will be, and the country's Communist ruling elite, how worried will they be by these protests and what will they do?

那你認為他會多擔心，以及該國家共產領導層會多擔心這些抗議、他們會怎麼做？

I mean, we've seen a lot of arrest, but I mean, they're gonna crack down on them pretty hard.

我們已經看到很多逮捕行動，我想他們會非常嚴厲地制裁他們。

They won't be panicking at the moment because there have been protests in the⏤before that they've managed to extinguish, they've quietened down.

他們目前不會驚慌，因為過去也有過他們能夠平息並消滅的抗議活動。

But they will be worried because one thing that the Chinese Communist Party doesn't want to happen⏤and works hard to stop happening⏤

但他們會擔心一件中國共產黨不希望發生也會竭力阻止發生的事，

is for protesters across the country unifying on a general theme, such as these policies for zero-COVID policies.

那就是全國上下的抗議人士因為如清零政策等共同訴求而團結。

That's what the Chinese authorities don't want people to do, and they work hard to stop that.

這就是中國官方不希望人民做的，而他們正努力地阻止那件事發生。

So, the fact that these protests are erupting in a number of cities, all with the same theme⏤

所以說，不同城市爆發出共同主題抗議活動的這個事實——

young people, educated people, as well, involved, a lot of them calling for political change, calling for more freedom⏤

年輕人以及受過教育的人都參與，而其中很多人都呼籲政治變革、更多自由，

that's gonna worry the Chinese Communist Party.

這將使中國共產黨感到擔憂。

And I would imagine⏤and we're already seeing this in Shanghai with the protests which are happening today⏤heavier police presence arresting some people.

我想像會有更多的警力逮捕民眾，而我們已經在上海今天的抗議活動看到了這種情況。

They'll be hoping they can nip it in the bud and that these protests will just fizzle out.

他們會希望能夠在萌芽階段就遏止，讓這些抗議逐漸終止。

All right, Michael, thank you very much indeed.

好的，Michael，非常感謝你。

And we can get more, actually, from Shanghai and more on those protests across China.

我們其實可以獲得更多來自上海以及中國各地抗議活動的消息。

We can talk to Thomas Hale, who's on the line, a correspondent for the Financial Times newspaper in Shanghai.

我們可以和在線上的 Thomas Hale 通話，《金融時報》駐上海的記者。

Thomas, thanks for being with us; what is the latest from Shanghai?

Thomas，謝謝你加入我們，上海的最新狀況如何？

Thank you for having me.

謝謝你邀請我。

Yeah, I'm about 50 meters from what remains of the protest.

我現在距離抗議殘景約 50 公尺遠。

I wouldn't call it exactly a protest; it was a kind of mass gathering of people.

我不會完全稱它為抗議活動，反而是大量的人群聚集。

It's just been dispersed by police about 20, 30 minutes ago.

這起群聚大約 20、30 分鐘前被警方疏散。

And, essentially, they've cordoned off and blockaded the road on which it was happening.

他們基本上已經封鎖事件發生的道路並設立警戒線。

But there are still very large crowds gathered, essentially as close to the original site of the protest as they can get.

但還是有很大群民眾聚集，基本上盡可能地靠近抗議的初始發生點。

And what is your view of the significance of these protests, how political are they?

那你認為這些抗議有多重要、他們涉及多少政治因素？

I would say they're extremely significant.

我會說他們極為重要。

And I would also say that the politics of China's COVID policies is⏤

我也會說，中國新冠規範政策是——

I'm not sure if you can hear, (but) next to me is quite a lot of disruption going on in the street; sorry about that.

我不確定你是否能聽到，但我身邊街頭有許多喧囂狀況，很抱歉。

But I would say that the COVID policies have become a kind of lightning node for wider frustrations, political frustrations in China, including over a slowing economy,

但我會說，新冠政策成了中國更大沮喪感、政治沮喪感的代罪羔羊，包括趨緩的經濟發展，

which has been a very significant issue for much of the past year, so⏤

這在過去一年多數時候都是非常重大的議題，所以⋯⋯

I would also add that on the front line of these gatherings, which haven't really turned violent at any point, with a few exceptions,

我還想補充一點，在這些集會的前線，除了少數例外，無論何時都沒有演變為真正暴力事件，

people will talk very frequently about freedom and about democracy and about the need for political change.

人們會非常頻繁地談論自由、民主以及政治變革的必要性。

It obviously requires quite a lot of bravery and courage, doesn't it, for these protesters to come out onto the streets at all and face arrest?

這些抗議者走上街頭並面臨逮捕風險，顯然需要相當大的勇氣和魄力，不是嗎？

Absolutely, it does.

當然，確實如此。

And the fewer people, the more the bravery it requires.

而人數越少，就需要越多勇氣。

So, as soon as you have a kind of critical mass, I think more people are drawn to these gatherings, but when you⏤

所以一但有了某種群聚效應，我覺得就會有更多人受這些集會吸引，但當你——

it's very difficult for them to get going in the first place, very huge, huge risks for anyone who shows up.

要讓活動發動本就身就很困難，然後任何出席的人都會冒極大的風險。

- Uh, you know⏤ - And do you think they will spread, these protests, do you think they will intensify?

- 你知道—— - 那你認為這些抗議會擴大且增強嗎？

I would⏤it's very difficult to say right now.

我會——現在很難斷言。

They have been spreading over the last few days; they've continued to spread over the weekend.

它們在過去幾天有擴大，而在週末也持續擴張。

The gathering I'm currently at was the site of the protest last night; I came here this morning, there was no one here, there were a few police cars.

我現在所在的聚集處是昨晚抗議的地點，我今早來時，一個人都沒有，只有幾輛警車。

By mid-afternoon, there were hundreds of people again, and people continued to show up until about, as I said, half an hour ago when they closed the streets.

到了下午三點左右，又出現了數百人，而人們不斷加入，直到他們在半小時前封鎖道路時。

So, at least in Shanghai on the grounds, the gatherings don't seem to be going away, and there are a lot of, there are a lot of signs of similar things happening at universities in China.

所以說，這些群聚似乎沒有消散徵兆，至少在上海當地是如此，而中國各地大學也有類似事件發生的跡象。

Good to talk to you; Thomas Hale, thank you very much, indeed, from the Financial Times in Shanghai, with the very latest on those protests in several different areas of China.

很高興跟你對談，非常感謝《金融時報》駐上海記者 Thomas Hale 提供中國不同地區抗議活動的最新發展。