Um We had this picture, it was like this big, it was laminated and we had a list of who has the picture.

我們有一張照片，有這麼大，是層壓的，我們有一張誰擁有照片的清單。

Like I can have it for two days.

就像我可以擁有它兩天。

The other guy will have it for two days and this and that and it would pass on.

另一個人將擁有它兩天，這樣那樣，它就會傳遞下去。

We pass it on for such a long time until we found it to be shocked right now.

我們把它傳了這麼久，直到我們發現它現在被震驚了。

No.

沒有。

Yeah, but but listen, but wait a minute.

是的，但是，但是聽著，但是等一下。

So the picture, the picture was a single female breast.

所以圖片，圖片是一個單一的女性乳房。

That's what it was.

這就是它的作用。

That's the picture.

這就是圖片。

We used to have that.

我們以前也有這樣的情況。

And it used to be a fuel, just like the masturbation library, you're overdue.

而且它曾經是一種燃料，就像手淫庫一樣，你已經逾期了。

Mhm.

嗯。

Does sexual uh repression lead to addiction?

性呃壓抑是否會導致成癮？

That's a pretty big jump.

這是一個相當大的跳躍。

But it is true that repression doesn't allow our full self to always be talked about, exhibited part of the day to day.

但是，壓抑確實不允許我們完整的自我總是被談論，被展示為日復一日的一部分。

And therefore we many times think about that, which you repress will oppress you.

是以，我們很多時候會想到，你壓制的東西會壓制你。

That is we're only as sick as our secrets.

那就是我們只有在我們的祕密中才會生病。

When we just talk about sex addiction as being just this bad thing.

當我們只是把性癮說成是這種壞事。

We don't realize that sex can easily be replaced with something else.

我們沒有意識到，性可以很容易地被其他東西取代。

You can be addicted to sex and then, you know, relieve yourself of that addiction and then you become addicted to chocolate or food or anything.

你可以對性上癮，然後，你知道，解除了這種癮，然後你會對巧克力或食物或任何東西上癮。

Sexual addiction is not about the sex, Sexual addiction is about the compulsion for sex.

性成癮不是關於性，性成癮是關於性的強迫性。

The sexual addict can have sex with somebody and then immediately after want to have sex with somebody else, a lot of people.

性癮者可以與某人發生性關係，然後緊接著想與其他人發生性關係，很多人都是如此。

Um, somebody will say you're sexy, you're hot.

嗯，有人會說你很性感，你很性感。

But what they'll hear is, you matter, you're important, you're special.

但他們會聽到的是：你很重要，你很重要，你很特別。

I love you.

我愛你。

And when you confuse those, you're not going to be able to fill that hole inside.

而當你混淆了這些，你就無法填補內心的那個洞。

Is this more common in religious communities?

這在宗教團體中更常見嗎？

It's most common in all communities that have the right norm when there's such binary way of looking at things than you are always trying to find somewhere in the middle and because life is not binary, then you always have to put yourself in a box that you never really fit in.

這在所有擁有正確規範的社區中是最常見的，當有這樣的二元看待事物的方式時，比起你總是試圖在中間找到某個地方，因為生活不是二元的，那麼你總是不得不把自己放在一個你從未真正適合的盒子裡。

And so like, do it in secret or not tell or feel shame and guilt about it almost needed the repression that came from religion.

所以像，祕密地做，或者不說，或者對此感到羞恥和內疚，幾乎需要來自宗教的壓制。

I somehow took that repression and then eked out what I could.

我莫名其妙地接受了這種壓抑，然後勉強擠出了我能做的。

Um, and it's interesting.

嗯，這很有趣。

So within a healthy religious family, um, it almost sexuality also is aligned more with love and not danger.

所以在一個健康的宗教家庭裡，嗯，它幾乎性行為也更多地與愛而不是危險相一致。

Did that affect your relationship to sex?

這是否影響了你與性的關係？

Yeah, I was a virgin mary.

是的，我是一個處女瑪利亞。

Yeah, I'm very, um, rebellious in theater land.

是的，我很，嗯，在戲劇領域很叛逆。

It's theater.

這就是戲劇。

I can I feel free acting in my own life maybe a little less.

我可以我覺得在我自己的生活中自由行動，也許有點少。

We express ourselves writing theater art, but the spoken word is not allowed in terms of sex, it's such a fear of talking about sex and it's not, I can't like, I swear to God, this is the first time I've sat, you know, the table and talking to two lovely women about sex.

我們表達自己的寫作戲劇藝術，但在性方面的口語是不允許的，這是一種對談論性的恐懼，這不是，我不能像，我向上帝發誓，這是我第一次坐在，你知道，桌子和兩個可愛的女人談論性。

I just it's even my first time talking, I mean, it's interesting because maybe with my own friends, but with a camera on us, even I'm making an adjustment going, wait, what am I doing?

我只是這是我第一次說話，我的意思是，這很有趣，因為也許和我自己的朋友在一起，但有一個攝影機對著我們，甚至我在做一個調整，等等，我在做什麼？

Sexuality is a part of spirituality, but because it is so complex and nuanced, it's easier to just say it's bad, it's wrong, we're going to keep it over here.

性是靈性的一部分，但因為它是如此複雜和微妙，所以更容易只是說它是壞的，它是錯的，我們要把它放在這裡。

We're not gonna discuss it at all, which is a shame because so much of spirituality is about creation and reproduction, body, right?

我們根本不會討論這個問題，這很可惜，因為靈性的很多東西都是關於創造和繁殖，身體，對嗎？

The different names.

不同的名字。

And when we detach them, we really detach ourselves from any kind of real connection to the divine, whatever that is we have sayings in Islam that says, sex is a piece of the garden on earth.

而當我們脫離了它們，我們就真的脫離了與神的任何一種真正的聯繫，不管那是什麼，我們在伊斯蘭教中的說法是，性是地球上的一塊花園。

If your religion is just walls and it's not the world.

如果你的宗教只是牆壁，而不是世界。

If you think about your religion as you know, these four walls in the restaurant versus Central Park, right?

如果你想想你的宗教，正如你所知道的，餐廳裡的這四面牆與中央公園相比，對嗎？

Central Park is spirituality.

中央公園是靈性的。

Religion is the four walls of this space, right?

宗教是這個空間的四壁，對嗎？

If this is if you just confine your connection to God to, I can't do this, I can't do that.

如果這是如果你只是把你與上帝的聯繫侷限在，我不能做這個，我不能做那個。

I have to do this.

我必須這樣做。

I shouldn't do that.

我不應該這樣做。

As opposed to religion being a way that you can experience the world, you can go to the park, you can see the trees and the birds and can play then that is a spiritual relationship and that is why sex is bad, bad, bad.

相對於宗教是一種你可以體驗世界的方式，你可以去公園，你可以看到樹和鳥，可以玩耍，那麼這就是一種精神關係，這就是為什麼性是壞的，壞的，壞的。

And you can't talk about it at all because we have bastardized religion, how do we change that?

而你根本不能談論它，因為我們已經把宗教私生子化了，我們如何改變這種狀況？

How do we open up?

我們怎樣才能打開局面？

How do we have healthy conversations about it about sex?

我們如何就其進行關於性的健康對話？

Because nobody like, I mean growing up in Syria, the only time we talk about sex was in religious class and that is all bad.

因為沒有人喜歡，我是說在敘利亞長大的時候，我們唯一談論性的時間是在宗教課上，那都是壞事。

You can't do everything is bad, you can't even think about that.

你不能做什麼都是壞事，你甚至不能考慮這個問題。

So how do we break this cycle?

那麼，我們如何打破這種循環呢？

You have to learn Islam for what it is.

你必須瞭解伊斯蘭教的本質。

Islam is an extremely sex positive religion.

伊斯蘭教是一個極為積極的性宗教。

There are bodies that are very graphic and very vivid in terms of the way the prophet Muhammad was with his wives.

有一些屍體非常形象，非常生動地描述了先知穆罕默德與他的妻子們在一起的方式。

But when religion gets filtered through culture, that's where you have the shame.

但是當宗教被文化過濾後，你就會有羞恥感。

That's where you have the guilt.

這就是你的內疚之處。

And I always tell people just because you don't like it doesn't make it Haram and just be because you like it doesn't make it halal.

我總是告訴人們，僅僅因為你不喜歡它並不意味著它是哈拉姆，僅僅因為你喜歡它並不意味著它是清真。

But where did it start the uncomfortableness?

但它是在哪裡開始不舒服的呢？

Because like in India become a sutra exists and literally drawings and a guide and it says if the body and mind meet, you can touch God, it's also one of the most conservative countries.

因為像在印度成為一個經文的存在和字面上的圖紙和指南，它說如果身體和心靈相遇，你可以觸摸到上帝，它也是最保守的國家之一。

So where does it?

那麼它在哪裡呢？

Is it parents isn't a word or two words, the Victorians, you have to look at history, You have to look at the colonizing force is just going to say that it's just it's all colonization.

是不是父母不是一個字或兩個字，維多利亞人，你要看歷史，你要看殖民化的力量就是要說，就是這都是殖民化。

And if you can get, if you can get people to colonize their mind, you can control the body and how do you best control the body in these sex positive cultures?

如果你能讓，如果你能讓人們殖民他們的思想，你就能控制身體，在這些性積極的文化中，你如何最好地控制身體？

You control sex.

你控制了性。

I'm a gay man.

我是一個同性戀者。

And one of the things that I'm very proud of, my own community is that we've claimed and reclaimed our ability to talk about sex to our friends, to people around us that I won't succumb to the heteronormative policies of the world.

我感到非常自豪的一件事是，我自己的社區是，我們已經聲稱並恢復了我們的能力，向我們的朋友，向我們周圍的人談論性，我不會屈服於世界的異性戀政策。

But many people do not come to the rabbi or the imam because they feel the wrath of God will come upon them.

但許多人不去找拉比或伊瑪目，因為他們覺得上帝的憤怒會降臨到他們身上。

And one of the things that I keep talking to my people around is like, no right.

我一直在和我的人談論的一件事就是，不對。

If this is a spiritual issue and if there's an issue of your spirit of who you are, then come to me, you will not be judged here because because God has made this world in a way that's the only way to make more babies right?

如果這是一個精神問題，如果你的精神有問題，你是誰，那麼到我這裡來，你不會在這裡受到審判，因為因為上帝以一種方式創造了這個世界，這是製造更多嬰兒的唯一方式，對嗎？

More Muslims more jews is by people having sex is abstinence and and and sex positivity.

更多的穆斯林更多的猶太人是由人們有性行為是禁慾和和性積極性。

Are they compatible?

它們是否兼容？

Yes, absolutely.

是的，當然。

100%.

100%.

100%.

100%.

Because you have to.

因為你必須這樣做。

So the way that you get abstinence to kind of hold right, You wanted to like, I want you to take this and hold it, don't let it go.

所以你讓節制的方式是保持正確的，你想像，我想讓你拿著這個，拿著它，不要讓它走。

You have to give people something to look forward to Because if you're telling them to abstain from sex.

你必須給人們一些期待，因為如果你告訴他們要節制性行為。

But then you can have sex when you get married, but we've been telling you for 20 years that sex is bad and it's dirty and it's gross, you're not going to want to have it.

但是，當你結婚時，你可以有性行為，但我們已經告訴你20年了，性是壞的，它是骯髒的，它是噁心的，你不會想有它。

So you have to talk about sex from a positive lens, sex is fun, sex is messy, it's dirty.

是以，你必須從一個積極的角度談論性，性是有趣的，性是混亂的，它是骯髒的。

It's you laugh and this is why you want to experience sex in a safe, emotionally vulnerable spiritually authentic partnership.

這是你的笑，這就是為什麼你想在一個安全的、情感上脆弱的、精神上真實的夥伴關係中體驗性。

It gives people something to look forward to.

這讓人們有了期待。

I think some people run to religion because they're looking for that orgasmic experience that can come from a deep connection with the Divine.

我認為有些人奔向宗教是因為他們在尋找那種可以從與神的深度聯繫中獲得的高潮體驗。

I think that's why some people engage in like intense fasting and you know, all night prayer and vicar and just really putting their body through the limits and it's not a sexual orgasm, but it is an awakening of play ritual.

我想這就是為什麼有些人從事像強烈的禁食和你知道的，整夜的祈禱和牧師，只是真正把他們的身體通過極限，這不是一個性高潮，但它是一個喚醒的遊戲儀式。

They're just using different, there's statues about this called the ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila, right?

他們只是用不同的，有關於這個的雕像，叫做阿維拉的聖特麗莎的狂喜，對嗎？

That when look, we all know this, that when you are connected when you feel that you are in this world, in that moment that like everything connects, it's it's ecstatic, nothing is like that, right?

那當看，我們都知道這一點，當你被連接的時候，當你覺得你在這個世界上，在那一刻，就像所有的東西都連接在一起，它是它的狂喜，沒有什麼是這樣的，對嗎？

Nothing feels and no moment can ever repeat that, right?

沒有什麼感覺，也沒有什麼時刻可以重複，對嗎？

And in that way that's part of the seeking sometimes with sexual addiction to find that high, right?

以這種方式，這也是性上癮的部分追求，有時是為了尋找那種興奮，對嗎？

So the religious ecstatic experience has been well documented in all religions, like, like jews and Muslims, they, it's all the same, It's the same guilt.

是以，宗教的狂喜體驗在所有的宗教中都有很好的記錄，比如，像猶太人和穆斯林，他們，都是一樣的，是一樣的內疚。

I mean, here's the thing.

我的意思是，事情是這樣的。

So why can't why can't we get why can't we solve the problems in Palestine were the same?

那麼，為什麼我們不能得到為什麼我們不能解決巴勒斯坦的問題是相同的？

I think that's a different episode, but why?

我認為這是一個不同的情節，但為什麼？