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  • - You know, I think the very best arguments

    - 你知道,我認為非常好的論據是

  • against the existence of God

    反對上帝的存在

  • have been formulated by believers.

    由信徒們制定。

  • Now here's what I mean:

    現在,我的意思是這樣的。

  • the story of Job is one of the great arguments

    約伯的故事是偉大的論據之一。

  • against God's existence

    反對上帝的存在

  • because of the awful suffering that Job, a righteous man,

    因為約伯這個正直的人遭受了可怕的痛苦。

  • he's a good righteous man, follower of the Lord,

    他是一個善良的義人,是主的追隨者。

  • and yet he goes through every type of suffering.

    然而,他經歷了各種類型的痛苦。

  • And it leads Job to question, at least the goodness of God,

    這導致約伯質疑,至少質疑上帝的仁慈。

  • if not the existence of God.

    如果不是上帝的存在。

  • Go forward many centuries to Thomas Aquinas:

    往前推很多個世紀到托馬斯-阿奎那。

  • when Thomas sets up the question, 'Does God exist?'

    當托馬斯提出 "上帝是否存在?

  • He first lays out objections.

    他首先列出了反對意見。

  • If one of two contraries be infinite,

    如果兩個對立面中的一個是無限的。

  • the other would be altogether destroyed.

    另一個將被完全摧毀。

  • So if there were infinite heat, there'd be nothing cold-

    是以,如果有無限的熱量,就不會有冷的東西------。

  • but God is described as 'infinitely good.'

    但上帝被描述為'無限的善'。

  • Therefore, if God exists there wouldn't be any evil,

    是以,如果上帝存在,就不會有任何邪惡。

  • but there is evil.

    但有邪惡的存在。

  • Therefore God doesn't exist.

    是以,上帝並不存在。

  • That's a darn good argument.

    這是一個非常好的論點。

  • Dostoevsky was a deeply believing Christian.

    陀思妥耶夫斯基是一個深具信仰的基督徒。

  • And yet he puts on the lips of his character,

    然而他卻把他的角色放在嘴邊。

  • Ivan Karamazov,

    伊萬-卡拉馬佐夫。

  • this awful argument against God.

    這個可怕的反對上帝的論點。

  • And Ivan is trying to convince his brother Alyosha

    而伊萬正試圖說服他的兄弟阿廖沙

  • who had been a monk,

    他曾是一名僧侶。

  • and was a devoutly mystical, religious person.

    並且是一個虔誠的神祕主義者、宗教人士。

  • And he says, "Look at all these examples

    他說,"看看所有這些例子

  • of innocent children

    無辜的孩子們

  • being tortured, in some cases, tortured to death."

    被折磨,在某些情況下,被折磨致死"。

  • I mean read that, and it's as convincing as anything.

    我的意思是讀到這句話,它就像任何東西一樣令人信服。

  • So three believers-

    是以,三個信徒--

  • the author of Job, Thomas Aquinas, and Dostoevsky-

    約伯記》、托馬斯-阿奎那和陀思妥耶夫斯基的作者

  • all lay out this argument,

    都闡述了這個論點。

  • which is if there's so much evil in the world,

    這就是如果世界上有這麼多的邪惡。

  • let's face it, there can't be an all-good God.

    讓我們面對它,不可能有一個全能的上帝。

  • These are very good arguments against God.

    這些都是反對上帝的很好的論據。

  • They're the best that the atheists have-

    他們是無神論者所擁有的最好的 --

  • is the argument from evil.

    是惡的論證。

  • Thomas Aquinas says,

    托馬斯-阿奎那說。

  • "God is so good that he permits certain evils,

    "上帝是如此善良,以至於他允許某些惡行。

  • so as to bring about a greater good

    以求得更大的利益

  • that could've never been accomplished otherwise."

    否則永遠不可能完成的"。

  • There are examples where we can see that happening.

    有一些例子,我們可以看到這種情況的發生。

  • Because of this evil, something really good happened to me that

    因為這種邪惡,在我身上發生了一些真正的好事,那就是

  • wouldn't have happened otherwise.

    否則就不會發生。

  • That job I didn't get that was so devastating to me

    我沒有得到的那份工作對我來說是毀滅性的

  • and caused so much suffering,

    並造成如此多的痛苦。

  • but because I didn't get that job,

    但因為我沒有得到那份工作。

  • I got this other job, which, in fact, has proved to be so life-giving.

    我得到了另一份工作,事實上,這份工作已被證明是非常有生命力的。

  • That relationship that meant so much to me

    那段對我意義重大的關係

  • that breakup just broke my heart into a thousand pieces,

    那次分手使我的心碎成了一千塊。

  • but because of that I met this woman, whom I'm now married

    但是因為這個原因,我遇到了這個女人,我現在已經和她結婚了。

  • and I found the joy of my life.

    而且我找到了我生命中的快樂。

  • Aquinas extrapolates from those experiences

    阿奎那從這些經驗中推斷出

  • to say, 'Well, that's the way to think about

    說,'嗯,這就是思考問題的方式

  • God's permission of suffering.'

    上帝對痛苦的許可'。

  • I think a lot of people are tripped up

    我認為很多人都被絆倒了

  • by a misunderstanding of what we mean by God.

    誤解了我們對上帝的理解。

  • If you imagine God as one more big, contingent thing

    如果你把上帝想象成一個更大的、偶然的東西

  • among others, well then there's just,

    其中,嗯,然後還有就是。

  • there's no evidence for that reality.

    沒有證據證明這一現實。

  • But what's extraordinary is when you look at the surveys

    但不尋常的是,當你看到調查時

  • of a lot of young people who are disaffiliating,

    的很多年輕人都在脫離關係。

  • it's amazing how many say some version of,

    令人驚訝的是,有多少人說了一些版本的。

  • "Well, I don't believe in this Old Man in the Sky anymore."

    "好吧,我不再相信這個天空中的老人了。"

  • Well, I would've hoped you let that go

    好吧,我希望你能讓它過去。

  • when you let go of Santa Claus.

    當你放開聖誕老人的時候。

  • I mean, it's the same kind of thing.

    我的意思是,這是同一類事情。

  • And the fact that so many young people had been co-opted

    而這麼多年輕人被收編的事實

  • by these really inadequate understandings of God, of faith,

    通過這些對上帝、對信仰的真正不充分的理解。

  • of the Bible, of suffering, of all that.

    聖經的,苦難的,所有這些的。

  • He's a reason, I'll put it more philosophically,

    他是一個原因,我說得更哲學一點。

  • why there's something rather than nothing.

    為什麼有東西而不是沒有東西。

  • Why there is a contingent, finite world at all.

    為什麼會有一個偶然的、有限的世界。

  • So I think that's the fundamental mistake

    所以我認為這是一個基本的錯誤

  • that a lot of atheists, both old and new, tend to make.

    很多無神論者,包括新老無神論者,都傾向於這樣做。

  • They don't understand what serious believers mean

    他們不明白嚴肅的信徒意味著什麼

  • by the word God.

    由神的話語。

  • That's, to a degree, our fault.

    這在某種程度上是我們的錯。

  • We've been lousy at teaching and catechesis and preaching.

    我們在教學、教義和講道方面一直很差勁。

  • Catholicism is a deeply intelligent tradition,

    天主教是一個深具智慧的傳統。

  • but why do we hide those treasures away

    但為什麼我們要把這些寶藏藏起來

  • from young people?

    來自年輕人?

  • Young people are saying the stupidest things

    年輕人正在說最愚蠢的事情

  • about their own religion.

    關於他們自己的宗教。

  • Well, I mean, that's to a large degree, our fault.

    嗯,我是說,這在很大程度上是我們的錯。

  • So there is a crisis in preaching, teaching, and catechesis,

    是以,在傳道、教學和教義方面存在著危機。

  • and we gotta take some responsibility for that.

    我們必須為此承擔一些責任。

- You know, I think the very best arguments

- 你知道,我認為非常好的論據是

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