against the existence of God

反對上帝的存在

have been formulated by believers.

由信徒們制定。

Now here's what I mean:

現在，我的意思是這樣的。

the story of Job is one of the great arguments

約伯的故事是偉大的論據之一。

against God's existence

反對上帝的存在

because of the awful suffering that Job, a righteous man,

因為約伯這個正直的人遭受了可怕的痛苦。

he's a good righteous man, follower of the Lord,

他是一個善良的義人，是主的追隨者。

and yet he goes through every type of suffering.

然而，他經歷了各種類型的痛苦。

And it leads Job to question, at least the goodness of God,

這導致約伯質疑，至少質疑上帝的仁慈。

if not the existence of God.

如果不是上帝的存在。

Go forward many centuries to Thomas Aquinas:

往前推很多個世紀到托馬斯-阿奎那。

when Thomas sets up the question, 'Does God exist?'

當托馬斯提出 "上帝是否存在？

He first lays out objections.

他首先列出了反對意見。

If one of two contraries be infinite,

如果兩個對立面中的一個是無限的。

the other would be altogether destroyed.

另一個將被完全摧毀。

So if there were infinite heat, there'd be nothing cold-

是以，如果有無限的熱量，就不會有冷的東西------。

but God is described as 'infinitely good.'

但上帝被描述為'無限的善'。

Therefore, if God exists there wouldn't be any evil,

是以，如果上帝存在，就不會有任何邪惡。

but there is evil.

但有邪惡的存在。

Therefore God doesn't exist.

是以，上帝並不存在。

That's a darn good argument.

這是一個非常好的論點。

Dostoevsky was a deeply believing Christian.

陀思妥耶夫斯基是一個深具信仰的基督徒。

And yet he puts on the lips of his character,

然而他卻把他的角色放在嘴邊。

Ivan Karamazov,

伊萬-卡拉馬佐夫。

this awful argument against God.

這個可怕的反對上帝的論點。

And Ivan is trying to convince his brother Alyosha

而伊萬正試圖說服他的兄弟阿廖沙

who had been a monk,

他曾是一名僧侶。

and was a devoutly mystical, religious person.

並且是一個虔誠的神祕主義者、宗教人士。

And he says, "Look at all these examples

他說，"看看所有這些例子

of innocent children

無辜的孩子們

being tortured, in some cases, tortured to death."

被折磨，在某些情況下，被折磨致死"。

I mean read that, and it's as convincing as anything.

我的意思是讀到這句話，它就像任何東西一樣令人信服。

So three believers-

是以，三個信徒--

the author of Job, Thomas Aquinas, and Dostoevsky-

約伯記》、托馬斯-阿奎那和陀思妥耶夫斯基的作者

all lay out this argument,

都闡述了這個論點。

which is if there's so much evil in the world,

這就是如果世界上有這麼多的邪惡。

let's face it, there can't be an all-good God.

讓我們面對它，不可能有一個全能的上帝。

These are very good arguments against God.

這些都是反對上帝的很好的論據。

They're the best that the atheists have-

他們是無神論者所擁有的最好的 --

is the argument from evil.

是惡的論證。

Thomas Aquinas says,

托馬斯-阿奎那說。

"God is so good that he permits certain evils,

"上帝是如此善良，以至於他允許某些惡行。

so as to bring about a greater good

以求得更大的利益

that could've never been accomplished otherwise."

否則永遠不可能完成的"。

There are examples where we can see that happening.

有一些例子，我們可以看到這種情況的發生。

Because of this evil, something really good happened to me that

因為這種邪惡，在我身上發生了一些真正的好事，那就是

wouldn't have happened otherwise.

否則就不會發生。

That job I didn't get that was so devastating to me

我沒有得到的那份工作對我來說是毀滅性的

and caused so much suffering,

並造成如此多的痛苦。

but because I didn't get that job,

但因為我沒有得到那份工作。

I got this other job, which, in fact, has proved to be so life-giving.

我得到了另一份工作，事實上，這份工作已被證明是非常有生命力的。

That relationship that meant so much to me

那段對我意義重大的關係

that breakup just broke my heart into a thousand pieces,

那次分手使我的心碎成了一千塊。

but because of that I met this woman, whom I'm now married

但是因為這個原因，我遇到了這個女人，我現在已經和她結婚了。

and I found the joy of my life.

而且我找到了我生命中的快樂。

Aquinas extrapolates from those experiences

阿奎那從這些經驗中推斷出

to say, 'Well, that's the way to think about

說，'嗯，這就是思考問題的方式

God's permission of suffering.'

上帝對痛苦的許可'。

I think a lot of people are tripped up

我認為很多人都被絆倒了

by a misunderstanding of what we mean by God.

誤解了我們對上帝的理解。

If you imagine God as one more big, contingent thing

如果你把上帝想象成一個更大的、偶然的東西

among others, well then there's just,

其中，嗯，然後還有就是。

there's no evidence for that reality.

沒有證據證明這一現實。

But what's extraordinary is when you look at the surveys

但不尋常的是，當你看到調查時

of a lot of young people who are disaffiliating,

的很多年輕人都在脫離關係。

it's amazing how many say some version of,

令人驚訝的是，有多少人說了一些版本的。

"Well, I don't believe in this Old Man in the Sky anymore."

"好吧，我不再相信這個天空中的老人了。"

Well, I would've hoped you let that go

好吧，我希望你能讓它過去。

when you let go of Santa Claus.

當你放開聖誕老人的時候。

I mean, it's the same kind of thing.

我的意思是，這是同一類事情。

And the fact that so many young people had been co-opted

而這麼多年輕人被收編的事實

by these really inadequate understandings of God, of faith,

通過這些對上帝、對信仰的真正不充分的理解。

of the Bible, of suffering, of all that.

聖經的，苦難的，所有這些的。

He's a reason, I'll put it more philosophically,

他是一個原因，我說得更哲學一點。

why there's something rather than nothing.

為什麼有東西而不是沒有東西。

Why there is a contingent, finite world at all.

為什麼會有一個偶然的、有限的世界。

So I think that's the fundamental mistake

所以我認為這是一個基本的錯誤

that a lot of atheists, both old and new, tend to make.

很多無神論者，包括新老無神論者，都傾向於這樣做。

They don't understand what serious believers mean

他們不明白嚴肅的信徒意味著什麼

by the word God.

由神的話語。

That's, to a degree, our fault.

這在某種程度上是我們的錯。

We've been lousy at teaching and catechesis and preaching.

我們在教學、教義和講道方面一直很差勁。

Catholicism is a deeply intelligent tradition,

天主教是一個深具智慧的傳統。

but why do we hide those treasures away

但為什麼我們要把這些寶藏藏起來

from young people?

來自年輕人？

Young people are saying the stupidest things

年輕人正在說最愚蠢的事情

about their own religion.

關於他們自己的宗教。

Well, I mean, that's to a large degree, our fault.

嗯，我是說，這在很大程度上是我們的錯。

So there is a crisis in preaching, teaching, and catechesis,

是以，在傳道、教學和教義方面存在著危機。

and we gotta take some responsibility for that.

我們必須為此承擔一些責任。