Thanks so much for being with us today.

非常感謝你今天和我們在一起。

Rosalind Brewer: Thank you for having me.

羅莎琳德布魯爾。謝謝你邀請我。

WPR: We can just dive right in.

WPR。我們可以直接潛入。

We're right now in the last quarter of 2020,

我們現在正處於2020年的最後一個季度。

and I think that a lot of people would agree that we're in the midst

我想很多人都會同意，我們正處於...

of what's probably one of the largest reckonings around racial equity

可能是圍繞種族平等的最大的算盤之一

that we've had in this country in decades.

我們已經在這個國家幾十年。

And it's something that you've been such a vocal advocate for,

這也是你一直以來大力倡導的東西。

both through your role at Starbucks

無論是通過你在星巴克的角色

and throughout your career of diversity and inclusion in the workplace.

以及在你的整個職業生涯中，工作場所的多樣性和包容性。

And so I'm curious just to hear from you to start off the conversation,

所以我很好奇，只是想聽聽你的意見，開始對話。

what this moment means for DEI efforts,

此刻對DEI工作意味著什麼。

not just in corporate America but in business in general.

不僅僅是在美國企業，在一般的企業中也是如此。

RB: You are right

RB: 你是對的

that this has made many of us that are in the corporate setting and beyond

這讓我們許多在企業環境中的人和其他的人都感到很驚訝。

to rethink the position on diversity and inclusion in the workplace.

重新思考工作場所多樣性和包容性的立場；

You know, let me start the conversation about where are we actually

你知道，讓我開始談話 關於我們到底在哪裡？

in diversity and inclusion in the corporate setting,

在公司環境中的多樣性和包容性方面；

and I will tell you that this is actually putting a spotlight on the weaknesses

而我要告訴你，這其實是在集中體現弱點。

and maybe the lack of forethought

也許是缺乏深謀遠慮

and intensity that we should always have maintained on this subject all along.

和強度，這是我們在這個問題上應該一直保持的。

One of the things that I think it's been highlighting for most of us

我想這對我們大多數人來說都是很重要的事情之一。

is that our biggest opportunity is inclusion.

是我們最大的機會是包容。

Because, you know, I have heard the stories so many times

因為，你知道，我已經聽過很多次的故事。

about how there's no Black talent out there,

關於如何有 沒有黑色的人才在那裡。

no Latinx talent for these particular roles.

沒有拉丁裔人才能勝任這些特殊的角色。

The talent is out there.

人才是有的。

I will tell you that it's underdeveloped,

我會告訴你，它是不發達的。

because I think we have spent more time trying to reach numbers

因為我認為我們花了更多的時間來達到數字的目的。

than we have changing our environment

勝過我們改變環境

where people feel safe,

人們感到安全的地方。

where they feel they can come to work and be their whole self,

在那裡，他們覺得自己可以來工作，做完整的自己。

give it everything they've got,

給它一切，他們已經得到了。

be their natural self

率性而為

and be respected for it and applauded for it,

並是以而受到尊重和喝彩。

and for people to recognize and appreciate their differences

並使人們認識和欣賞他們的差異

and understand that they're differences,

並明白他們的差異。

and if they're included in the conversations,

以及如果他們被列入對話中。

that they're just a better resource for the companies.

他們只是為公司提供了更好的資源。

So I think there's so much opportunity in the inclusion space,

所以我覺得在包容領域有很多機會。

because we focus too much on meeting metrics.

因為我們太注重指標的滿足。

WPR: And, you know, I think earlier this year

WPR。而且，你知道，我想今年早些時候。

when the protests began right after the death of George Floyd,

在喬治-弗洛伊德死後，抗議活動就開始了。

we saw lots of organizations put out these statements of solidarity,

我們看到很多組織發表了這些聲援聲明。

these commitments to do more to be inclusive

承諾，為實現包容性做更多工作

both in their workspace

兩者都在其工作區

and for their customers and people who support their work.

以及為他們的客戶和支持他們工作的人。

But then you also hear --

但是，你也聽到 -

I've heard a lot of business leaders say things like, "You know,

我聽過很多企業上司說過這樣的話："你知道。

we want to do something but don't really know where to start."

我們想做一些事情，但真的不知道從哪裡開始。"

And so I'm curious to hear from you just sort of what do you think

所以我很想聽聽你的意見，你怎麼想的

are ways that you actually can make a real difference

是你可以真正改變的方式。

when it comes to thinking about diversity and inclusion

談到對多樣性和包容性的思考時

and avoid sort of this performative justice?

並避免這種表演性的正義？

RB: Yes.

RB：是的。

So there's a few things that I think about in this space.

所以在這個空間裡，我有一些思考。

First of all, when you think about an inclusive environment,

首先，當你想到一個包容的環境。

you think about: Am I being heard?

你想想看我被聽到了嗎？

And most people with differences,

而大多數人的差異。

they want to know that you are heard and that you are seen.

他們想知道，你被聽到，你被看到。

And I really applaud the companies who have been spending time

我真的為那些花時間的公司鼓掌

just putting themselves on a learning journey,

只是把自己放在一個學習的歷程中。

you know, holding listening sessions,

你知道，舉行聽證會。

trying to make sure that we've got different viewpoints

試圖確保我們已經得到了不同的觀點，

when big decisions are made.

在做出重大決定時。

You know, there are some companies who are engaging their partner networks

你知道，有一些公司正在參與他們的合作伙伴網絡。

in ways that they've never done before.

以他們從未做過的方式。

I think those are some early success factors

我想這些都是一些早期的成功因素

that could lead us to different kinds of conversations.

可以引導我們進行不同類型的對話。

And I've been listening to a lot of my peers in different industries,

而且我也聽了很多不同行業的同行的意見。

and they're having their own personal aha moments,

他們有他們自己的個人哈時刻。

and they're actually checking themselves at the front door, saying,

而他們居然在前門檢查自己，說。

"I never thought," "I never knew,"

"我從來沒有想過"，"我從來不知道"。

"I didn't know what I was doing when I said X, or when I did this." Right?

"我不知道我在做什麼，當我說X，或當我這樣做。"對吧？

And so I think it starts with some very simple things.

所以我認為要從一些很簡單的事情開始。

I'd say that there are a lot of steps to take

我想說的是，有很多步驟要做。

before training and development, that's for sure.

前的培訓和發展，這是肯定的。

So those that are jumping quickly into training and development,

所以那些快速跳入培訓和發展的。

I'd say put a pause on it and just get back to grassroots

我想說的是，暫停一下，回到基層去吧

and hold listening sessions and then decide,

並召開聽證會，然後決定。

what do you want to do?

你想做什麼？

And then help those people of diverse backgrounds

然後幫助那些不同背景的人

engage in those conversations about how they want to see change happen.

參與這些關於他們希望如何看到變革發生的對話。

They're the best resource for a lot of this

他們是最好的資源很多這一點

and a lot of these discussions.

和很多這些討論。

I mean, I learned so much.

我的意思是，我學到了很多東西。

I have breakfast sessions with the baristas and partners

我和咖啡師及合作伙伴一起吃早餐。

at Starbucks regularly.

在星巴克經常。

I just had one yesterday, and when my screen popped up,

我昨天剛吃了一個，當我的螢幕彈出。

I had nine diverse randomly selected partners.

我有九個不同的隨機選擇的夥伴。

We call our employees "partners."

我們稱員工為 "合作伙伴"。

And it was such a rich conversation,

而且是如此豐富的對話。

and they began to network while I'm talking to them, right,

我跟他們說話的時候他們就開始聯網了，對吧。

they were learning from each other.

他們在互相學習。

And this wasn't a diversity conversation.

而這不是一個多元化的對話。

We were actually kicking off our new financial year at Starbucks,

我們其實是在星巴克開啟了新的財政年度。

and so this was actually a business conversation

所以這實際上是一個商業對話

and a touch-base to see how you're doing

和一個觸摸基地，看看你是如何做的。

while we're working remotely.

當我們在遠程工作時。

And, you know, it starts there with building relationships

而且，你知道，它從那裡開始 與建立關係。

and learning people for who they are and engaging them and saying,

和學習人的身份，讓他們參與進來，說。

"I see you, I hear you."

"我看到你，我聽到你。"

That goes such a long way that I think if we do more of that,

這樣的方式，我想如果我們多做一些這樣的事情。

I even think the engagement and performance

我甚至認為，參與和表現

just goes through the roof.

只是通過屋頂。

WPR: And so what I hear you saying, then, is that it's less about

WPR:所以我聽到你說的是，那麼，它是不太關於

this short-term "how can I respond to this moment right now?"

這種短期的 "我怎樣才能應對現在這個時刻？"

and it's more about long-term engagement with people

而它更多的是與人們的長期接觸。

and making this part of the fabric of how you do your work.

並使之成為你工作方式的一部分。

And so I'm curious also to hear a little bit about,

所以我也很好奇，想聽一下。

just, I guess if there is a timeline,

只是，我想如果有一個時間表。

when people think about how quickly they should be responding to protests

當人們考慮到他們應該如何快速回應抗議時

and to what's happening in this cultural moment.

並對這個文化時刻發生的事情。

What should we actually be looking at

我們到底應該看什麼？

as far as when we see this change actually materialize and take effect?

至於我們何時才能看到這種變化真正實現和生效？

RB: Yes. So I think there are some short-term things.

RB：是的。所以我認為有一些短期的事情。

There are some really key partnerships in the communities around our localities

在我們當地的社區中，有一些非常重要的夥伴關係。

that are really important to also engage

真正重要的是也參與

in some of the listening and learning sessions as well.

在一些聽課和學習環節中，也。

I learn tons from organizations like the Legal Defense Fund,

我從像法律辯護基金這樣的組織學到了很多東西。

from the NAACP,

從NAACP。

and engaging those partnerships that we've had over the years,

並讓我們多年來的那些夥伴關係參與其中。

but changing the discussion of the conversation

但改變對話的討論

about how do we partner together.

關於我們如何合作的問題。

Because one of the things that I fear for being a retailer

因為做散戶最怕的一件事就是

like Starbucks and many other companies

像星巴克和許多其他公司

is that I want my partners to feel not only safe, comfortable,

是我希望我的夥伴們不僅感到安全、舒適。

heard and seen in the company,

在公司裡聽到和看到。

I want them to have that same experience in the community.

我希望他們在社會上也有同樣的經歷。

And so that's when it comes full circle.

於是，這時就有了一個完整的循環。

I really want diverse BIPOC employees

我真的希望有不同的BIPOC員工

to feel like, you know, "I make a difference."

感覺像，你知道， "我有所作為。"

First of all, I vote every year.

首先，我每年都會投票。

I'm engaged in my community.

我參與了我的社區。

And then I'm engaged in work.

然後我就投入到工作中去了。

So I have value.

所以我有價值。

And so I think there are some key partnerships

所以我認為有一些關鍵的夥伴關係

that should happen right now

此一時彼一時

so that we can make sure that our employees feel like

這樣我們才能確保我們的員工感覺像

they have a full way to engage in this change that's underfoot right now.

他們有一個完整的方式來參與現在腳下的這場變革。

WPR: And then I wonder, conversely,

WPR。然後我想知道，反過來說，

what sort of pitfalls have you seen business leaders fall into

你見過的企業領導人陷入了什麼樣的陷阱？

that are actually just not effective

實際上是無效的

and are not supportive of efforts

並不支持努力

to be more inclusive and to diversify?

以提高包容性，實現多元化?

What are some of the things that haven't worked?

有哪些事情是沒有效果的？

RB: Yeah, you know, I worry about the race for numbers, to meet numbers,

RB：是的，你知道，我擔心的是對數字的競賽，滿足數字。

because what you will find, I've found many times in my career,

因為你會發現，在我的職業生涯中，我已經發現了很多次。

is that some of our best leaders have good intentions,

是我們一些最好的領導人有良好的意圖。

but they don't understand.

但他們不明白。

They don't understand the partner sitting next to them

他們不理解坐在他們旁邊的夥伴。

that looks different from them.

看起來和他們不一樣的。

And so I worry about when we race to numbers,

所以，當我們競相追逐數字的時候，我很擔心。

because, you know what?

因為，你知道嗎？

The kind of country we live in, the world we live in,

我們生活在什麼樣的國家，就生活在什麼樣的世界。

we all know how to make numbers work.

我們都知道如何使數字工作。

What we don't know how to do is to build strong relationships

我們不知道怎麼做的是建立強大的關係。

that are lasting, that are valued.

是持久的，是有價值的。

And I think that's where we need to start,

我想這就是我們需要開始的地方。

is relationship-building and key partnerships.

是建立關係和關鍵的夥伴關係。

So I worry about the numbers base.

所以我擔心數字基礎。

WPR: And so, of course, I think we all remember a few years back,

WPR。所以，當然，我想大家都記得幾年前。