He, as well as most Western nations, have blamed the Russian security forces with the help of the Ballon Cat investigative website, who had identified some of the team which had been trailing Navalny.

他以及大多數西方國家都在球貓調查網站的幫助下，指責俄羅斯安全部隊，他們已經確定了一些一直跟蹤納瓦爾尼的團隊。

He called them up.

他把他們叫了起來。

He pretended to be a senior security official investigating the poisoning operation, and he got a full confession.

他假裝成調查投毒行動的高級安全官員，得到了完整的供詞。

His an excerpt from the phone call.

他的一個電話節選。

Okay, then tell me what kind of clothes it was applied on.

好吧，那就告訴我，它是塗在什麼衣服上的。

What was the main focus?

重點是什麼？

What's the riskiest piece of clothing in theory?

理論上風險最大的衣服是什麼？

Well, underpants, underpants.

嗯，內褲，內褲。

We spoke to the man who sat next to Alexei Navalny during this phone conversation.

在這次電話交談中，我們採訪了坐在阿列克謝-納瓦尼身邊的人。

Crystal grows if the lead investigator off balance.

如果首席調查員失去平衡，水晶就會成長。

Yet it was definitely the most incredible thing anybody can, um can can live through.

然而，這絕對是最不可思議的事情，任何人都可以，嗯可以活過。

What added to the surrealism of the moment is that we hadn't I hadn't slept the whole night working on the final touches to the investigative reports that we would publish later that day.

更加讓人感到超現實主義的是，我們還沒有我整晚沒睡，在為當天晚些時候要發表的調查報告做最後的潤色工作。

Eso at 4 30 in the morning, there was this phone call and I think can Giovanni also had not stopped that night much so it was all kind of in a slow motion.

埃索在凌晨4點半的時候，有這個電話，我想可以喬瓦尼那天晚上也沒怎麼停過，所以這一切都像是在慢動作。

And when it happened, I really thought I was dreaming.

而當它發生時，我真的以為自己在做夢。

And this could not be happening in your time.

而這不可能發生在你的時代。

Crystal, Who did you decide to call?

水晶，你決定給誰打電話？

Well, actually, the original plan had bean toe Onley confront the actual suspected poisoners for Navalny to call them up and to say Hello.

好吧，其實，原來的計劃是讓豆豆Onley面對真正的疑似下毒者，讓Navalny給他們打電話，說你好。

I'm Navalny.

我是納瓦尼

Why do you try to kill me?

你為什麼要殺我？

And to try to get their reaction?

並試圖得到他們的反應？

This, we thought, was going to be a funny moment before we published the investigation.

在我們發表調查報告之前，我們認為這將是一個有趣的時刻。

But a midway through the Cole sequence, Navalny says, Well, I'm not getting any reaction.

但在科爾那段戲的中途，納瓦尼說："好吧，我沒有得到任何反應。

They were hanging up.

他們掛了電話。

So how about I just do a prank and call one of them but Impersonating a top security officer?

那我就做個惡作劇，給其中一個人打電話，但要冒充一個高級安保人員，怎麼樣？

So we had about two minute prep session to think of what name might work and who might be the office that they call from.

所以我們開了大約兩分鐘的預備會，思考什麼名字可能有用，誰可能是他們打來的辦公室。

He decided on calling on behalf of a non existent eight tow.

他決定代表不存在的八拖打電話。

The chief of the Security Council of Russian Equal Partnership was probably one of the most senior security officials, probably the most senior security official in Russia and he was going to call and ask for a quick report on what went wrong in Tomsk, the place where the volume was poisoned.

俄羅斯平等夥伴安全委員會的負責人可能是俄羅斯最高級的安全官員之一，可能是俄羅斯最高級的安全官員，他要打電話要求快速報告在託木斯克這個量中毒的地方出了什麼問題。

I was completely, uh, determined that this would yield in a in a hang up and somebody just putting the phone down.

我完全，呃，確定這將產生 在一個掛斷，有人只是把電話放下。

It went through the first five minutes and I thought, Okay, there is a chance.

它經歷了前五分鐘，我想，好吧，有機會。

Actually, this guy might confess, and within about seven or eight minutes, he had made the first confession.

其實，這傢伙可能會招供，大約七八分鐘的時間，他就做了第一次招供。

Navalny stayed in character for for 49 minutes and kept bullying the poor guy to give them more information and more information.

納瓦爾尼在49分鐘的時間裡一直保持著角色，一直在欺負這個可憐的傢伙，讓他給他們提供更多的資訊和更多的資訊。

And at the end, I really thought I had gone through a dream.

而在最後，我真的以為自己經歷了一場夢。

It's probably as unique as the experience he had a living through, another truck poisoning on.

這可能和他有過的經歷一樣獨特，另一輛卡車中毒上。

I think once he does that he is ready for anything.

我想一旦他做到了這一點，他就可以做任何事情了。

But I could see in his face that he was withholding the emotion and the emotion must have been extremely powerful appearing.

但我從他的臉上可以看出，他在隱忍著情緒，這種情緒一定是非常強大的出現。

Somebody explain to you why medics coming to save your life is a terrible thing to happen.

誰來給你解釋一下，為什麼醫護人員來救你的命是一件很可怕的事情。

I think it took him, ah, lot of adrenaline to go through it.

我想他是花了很多腎上腺素才熬過來的。

And at the end he just essentially collapsed.

而在最後，他基本上就崩潰了。

He went back toe to his home to have a rest because he had nothing to say.

他因為無話可說，就回自己的家去休息了。

And he couldn't say nothing until we met later in the day and we all wondered whether that had really happened.

而他也不能說什麼，直到後來我們見面，我們都在想，是不是真的發生了這樣的事情。

Or was it a dream?

還是說這是一場夢？

Was it a dream?

這是個夢嗎？

Well, let's get the thoughts now of our Moscow correspondent, Steve Rosenberg.

好了，現在讓我們來聽聽我們莫斯科記者史蒂夫-羅森伯格的想法。

Such fascinating details in that phone call Steve 49 minutes long.

史蒂夫的電話裡有如此迷人的細節，長達49分鐘。

What was your reaction when you listen to it?

你聽了之後的反應是什麼？

Well, I mean, Lucy, what an incredible story.

嗯，我是說，露西，多麼不可思議的故事。

You'd be hard pressed to come up with a more bizarre telephone conversation.

你很難想出更離奇的電話對話。

Telephone call, would you?

電話，你會嗎？

I mean, Alex in the valley picks up the phone and telephones one of the security officials security agents alleged to have been part of this clandestine FSB hit squad in order to to shallow him and then to poison him.

我的意思是，亞歷克斯在山谷裡拿起電話，打電話給一個安全官員... ...安全人員據稱是這個祕密的FSB殺手小組的一部分... ...為了淺薄他，然後毒死他。

It was incredible.

這是不可思議的。

49 minutes on this man, Constantine Kudryavtsev, clearly completely duped.

49分鐘，這個人，康斯坦丁-庫德里亞夫採夫，顯然完全被騙了。

Completely taken in believing that Mr Divinely Waas who he said he waas this Russian security official.

完全相信神力先生是他說的那個人，他就是這個俄羅斯安全官員。

Andi, uh, Mr nobody able to extract some fascinating details of the operation to kill him, including the the detail that the novel Chalk Poison, this chemical weapon seems to be implanted in a pair of his underpants.

安迪，呃，先生沒有人能夠提取一些迷人的細節的操作，以殺死他，包括細節，小說粉筆毒，這種化學武器似乎被植入在他的一條內褲。

Also interesting.

也很有意思。

Mr Kudryavtsev made it clear that the dose of novel chalk would have bean enough to kill Mr Nonviolently if the plane on which Mr the violin had been flying to Moscow hadn't made an emergency landing so quickly and if the paramedics on the ground hadn't acted, acted so quickly.

庫德里亞夫採夫先生明確表示，如果小提琴先生飛往莫斯科的飛機沒有如此迅速地緊急降落，如果地面上的醫護人員沒有采取行動，沒有如此迅速地採取行動，那麼，新式粉筆的劑量就足以殺死非暴力先生。

Fascinating stuff.

迷人的東西。

Yeah, we heard Steve how difficult it was for Alexey Navalny to sit there and hear that kind of detail that it was only the urgent medical care he received that saved his life.

是的，我們聽到了史蒂夫有多困難，阿列克謝-納瓦尼坐在那裡，聽到這樣的細節，是他得到的緊急醫療服務才救了他的命。

It was really amazing to get some of that information, but I'm wondering what the reaction has Bean not just from the Kremlin but from others in Russia to this interview.

獲得一些資訊真的很神奇，但我想知道，不僅是克里姆林宮，而且是俄羅斯其他國家對這次採訪的反應有憨。

The reaction has bean, as expected, whenever the Russian authorities are accused of something, whether it's poisonings or whether it's meddling in U.

反應有豆，正如預期的那樣，每當俄羅斯當局被指責的事情，無論是投毒還是干涉烏。

S.

S.

Elections or sending Russian troops into eastern Ukraine, the reactions always denial.

選舉或派俄羅斯軍隊進入烏克蘭東部，反應總是否認。

We heard a denial yesterday from the FSB, the Russian Internal Security Service, which called the recording a fake.

昨天我們聽到了俄羅斯國內安全局FSB的否認，他們稱這段錄音是假的。

It said it was a provocation organized by foreign intelligence services.

它說這是外國情報部門組織的挑釁。

Today, the Kremlin has commented and said, Well, the FSB has said everything.

今天，克里姆林宮發表評論說，好吧，FSB已經說了一切。

We have nothing more to add.

我們沒有什麼可補充的了。

But they did add.

但他們確實增加了。

President Putin's press secretary said that Mr Divinely suffered from delusions of grandeur and a persecution complex.

普京總統的新聞祕書說，迪瓦尼利先生患有妄想症和迫害情結。

Nothing surprising, really.

沒什麼好奇怪的，真的。

In the Kremlin's reaction to this social media, though, Steve Well, it's been all underpants, really.

在克里姆林宮對這個社交媒體的反應中，雖然，史蒂夫嗯，一直都是內褲，真的。

Lots of humorous posts about underpants plays on words, many post suggesting that the FSB cleans Mr the Violence underpants.

很多幽默的帖子，關於內褲的文字遊戲，很多帖子建議FSB清洗先生的暴力內褲。

Because this man, Mr Kudryavtsev, it seems his role in the Operation Waas to clean up the evidence and to organize the cleaning off Mr Levine is close to get rid of the evidence.

因為這個人，庫德里亞夫採夫先生，看來他在華斯行動中的作用是清理證據，並組織清理掉李文先生，就快把證據處理掉了。

It's fascinating stuff is that it's remarkable on many levels.

這是迷人的東西是，它在很多層面上都很了不起。

You know, the fact that the victim calls one of the assassins alleged assassins the fact that the investigative team, the investigative journalists and the citizen investigators were able to identify the members of this clandestine FSB hit hit squad using databases older, new using passenger logs using mobile phone records.

你知道，事實上，受害者打電話給刺客中的一個被指控為刺客的事實調查小組，調查記者和公民調查員能夠確定這個祕密的FSB殺手小隊的成員使用數據庫舊的，新的使用乘客記錄使用手機記錄。

And they were able to put this jigsaw together on come up with names and numbers on that Steve, they may deny it.

他們能夠把這個拼圖放在一起... ... .......

But surely this is hugely embarrassing for the Kremlin end for the FSB.

但這對克里姆林宮和聯邦安全局來說肯定是非常尷尬的。

Oh, absolutely.

哦，絕對的。

It's embarrassing for Mr Kudryavtsev, who was taken in.

這讓庫德里亞夫採夫先生很尷尬，他是被抓來的。

It's embarrassing for the FSB.

這讓聯邦安全局很尷尬。

It's embarrassing for the Kremlin.

這讓克里姆林宮很尷尬。

Only last week, Vladimir Putin and his big end of year news conference was saying, Well, yes, we we may have Bean following Mr Levine early, but poison him know if we have wanted to kill him, then we would have made sure we did the job properly.

就在上週，普京和他的年終新聞發佈會上說，嗯，是的，我們我們可能有豆子跟著李文先生早期，但毒害他知道，如果我們有想殺死他，那麼我們會確保我們做了正確的工作。

I mean, the Kremlin has continually denied that the Russian state had anything at all to do with the poisoning off the Kremlin's most vocal critic, Steve.

我的意思是，克里姆林宮一直否認 俄羅斯國家有任何事情 在所有做的毒害 關閉克里姆林宮的最強烈的責備，史蒂夫。

Thanks for joining us from Moscow.

謝謝你在莫斯科參加我們的節目