WELCOME BACK.

歡迎回來。

WE'RE HERE WITH THE AUTHOR OF "BAG MAN," RACHEL MADDOW.

我們在這裡與 "袋人 "的作者，RACHEL MADDOW。

WELL, THAT SORT OF GRIFTING FOR HIS POSTPRESIDENTIAL CAREER IS

好吧，這對他未來的總統生涯來說是一種恩賜。

JUST ANOTHER FORM OF CORRUPTION.

只是另一種形式的腐敗。

THERE'S SOME DEBATE GOING ON AS TO WHETHER THERE SHOULD BE

有一些爭論，關於是否應該有。

INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE ADMINISTRATION AFTER HE LEAVES

在他離開後對行政部門的調查

OFFICE, WHETHER THAT'S THE BEST THING FOR THE COUNTRY.

辦公室，這是否是對國家最好的事情。

WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE INDICTMENTS OF ANYONE IN THE

是否有跡象表明，在《公約》中，任何人都有可能被起訴。

ADMINISTRATION, OR THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF, OR HIS CHILDREN,

行政部門、主席本人或其子女的權利。

WOULDN'T IT BE NICE JUST TO KNOW, THOUGH?

如果能知道就好了，不是嗎？

WOULDN'T IT BE NICE-- WHAT ARE THE LOOSE ENDS YOU'D MOST LIKE

你最喜歡的鬆散的部分是什麼?

TO KNOW ABOUT?

要知道的是？

>> OH, LIKE TRUMP MYSTERIES THAT NEVER GOT RUN DOWN?

>> 哦，像特朗普的神祕事件，從來沒有運行下來？

>> Stephen: YES, YES.

>> 史蒂芬：是的，是的。

>> OH, THERE IS SO MANY.

>> 哦，有這麼多。

( LAUGHS ).

（笑）：

>> Stephen: THE TAXES, OF COURSE, IS ONE GOOD ONE.

>> Stephen: 稅收，當然，是一個很好的問題。

>> YEAH.

>> 是的。

>> Stephen: YOU'VE BEEN CHASING THAT DRAGON FOR A WHILE.

>> 你一直在追逐那條龍，有一段時間了。

>> YES.

>> 是。

I WANT TO KNOW-- YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF FINANCIAL

我想知道... ... 你知道，有很多的金融。

THINGS ABOUT THE PRESIDENT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, INCLUDING,

我想知道的關於總統的事情，包括：

YOU KNOW, WHY HIS GOLF COURSES MAKE FINANCIAL SENSE WHEN ALL

你知道，為什麼他的高爾夫球場在財務上有意義嗎？

THEY DO IS LOSE MONEY, BUT HE WAS ABLE TO PAY FOR THEM IN CASH

他們做的是賠錢，但他有能力用現金支付這些錢

AND NOBODY KNOWS WHERE HE GOT THE CASH FROM TO PAY FOR THEM.

沒人知道他從哪裡弄來的現金來支付這些東西。

>> Stephen: WHO DOES HE OH, $415 MILLION TO?

>> Stephen:誰他哦，4.15億給誰？

>> EXACTLY.

>> 正是如此。

THERE IS ALSO THE SMALLER STUFF.

還有更小的東西。

THE PRESIDENT IS "INDIVIDUAL 1" IN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW

主席是新澤西州南部地區的 "個人1"。

YORK, WHERE HIS LAWYER, MICHAEL COHEN, ACTUALLY DID PRISON TIME

在紐約，他的律師邁克爾-科恩實際上在那裡坐過牢。

FOR THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATIONS AROUND THAT WHOLE

競選資金的違規行為，在這一整個過程中

HUSH MONEY PAYMENT THING.

催款的事情。

THOSE PROSECUTORS DESCRIBED THE PRESIDENT AS HAVING BEEN THE

檢察官們將主席描述為 "最重要的人"。

PERSON WHO DIRECTED THE COMMISSION OF THOSE FELONIES AND

指揮實施這些重罪的人和指揮者：

WHO BENEFITTED FROM THEM.

誰從中受益。

>> Stephen: UNINDICTED COCONSPIR SOR.

>> Stephen:隱祕的陰謀。

>> LITERALLY, AN UNINDICTED CO

>> 從字面上看，一個未被證實的公司。

CONSPIRATOR.

陰謀家：

I'M SEWER INTERESTED IN THE QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IF

我對這個問題很感興趣，因為是否有可能

THOSE PROSECUTORS, IF THEY WANT TO, WHETHER THEY WILL BE ALLOWED

這些檢察官，如果他們願意，他們是否會被允許。

INDEPENDENTLY TO PURSUE THE PERSON WHO DIRECTED THE

獨立地追究指揮該事件的人的責任。

COMMISSION OF THOSE FELONIES SINCE THEY ALREADY PUT SOMEBODY

由於他們已經把一些人送進了監獄，所以要把這些重刑犯送進監獄。

ELSE IN PRISON FOR IT.

因為它而入獄。

BUT THERE ARE ALL THESE OTHER MYSTERIES INSPECT.

但還有這些其他神祕的東西可以檢查。

WHY DID-- WHY DID THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN SHARE INTERNAL

為什麼... 為什麼特朗普的競選主席會分享內部的

POLLING DATA WITH A RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE OFFICER?

和俄羅斯情報官員一起調查數據？

I DON'T KNOW.

我不知道。

>> Stephen: COULD BE FOR ANY NUMBER OF REASONS.

>> Stephen:可以是任何數量的原因。

>> WHO AMONG US HASN'T.

>> 誰在我們中間沒有。

>> Stephen: IT'S A GREAT PICK-UP LINE.

>> Stephen:這是一個很好的接機線。

SPEAK OF CORRUPTION, I WANT TO GET TO YOUR NEW BOOK, "BAG MAN:

說到腐敗，我想去看你的新書 "袋人"。

THE WILD CRIMES, AUDACIOUS COVER-UP, AND SPECTACULAR

荒誕的犯罪、聽覺上的掩飾和驚人的犯罪行為

DOWNFALL OF A BRAZEN CROOK IN THE WHITE HOUSE."

"白宮裡的布拉茲克洛夫的下場"

AND IT'S NOT WHO YOU THINK, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

這不是你想的那樣，女士們，先生們。

TELL THE PEOPLE WHO THIS IS ABOUT.

告訴人們這是誰的事。

>> THIS IS ABOUT RICHARD NIXON'S VICE PRESIDENT, SPIRO AGNEW, WHO

>> 這是關於尼克松的副總統，SPIRO AGNEW，誰的。

WAS THE ONLY VICE PRESIDENT TO HAVE EVER BEEN RUN OUT OF OFFICE

他是唯一一個被趕下臺的副總統。

ON A RAIL.

一條鐵路上。

AND HE LITERALLY HAD TO RESIGN HIS OFFICE MINUTES BEFORE HE

而他實際上不得不辭去了他的辦公室分鐘之前，他。

PLED NO LO CONTENDRE, PLED NO CONTEST TO A CHARGE IN A

PLED NO LO CONTENDRE, PLED NO CONTRACT TO A CHARGE IN A.

COURTROOM.

審判室：

AND THE WHOLE SCHEME BY WHICH HE AVOIDED PRISON TIME AND WAS

和整個計劃，使他躲過了監獄的時間，並被

ALLOWED TO RESIGN FOR HIS CRIMES, RATHER THAN FACE PRISON

被允許為他的罪行辭職，而不是面對監獄。

TIME, AND THAT WAS TO KEEP HIM FROM BECOMING PRESIDENT.

時間，那是為了防止他成為總統。

IT'S SORT OF AN UNTOLD STORY BECAUSE IT WAS SO OVERSHADOWED

因為它被過度掩蓋了，所以算是一個不為人知的故事。

BY WATERGATE BUT I AM COMPLETELY OBSESSED WITH THIS STORY.

但我完全沉迷於這個故事。

AND I THINK IT HAS LOTS OF TRAILING ENDS THAT BRING US

我認為它有很多的跟蹤結束，給我們帶來了

THROUGH TO TODAY.

一直到今天。

>> Stephen: IT REMINDS YOU-- HIS STORY REMINDS YOU THAT THE

>> Stephen:他的故事提醒了你，他的故事提醒了你，他的故事提醒了你。

TERM "BAG MAN" LITERALLY COMES FROM BAGS OF MONEY.

術語 "袋人 "字面意思來自於錢袋。

>> YES.

>> 是。

>> Stephen: I ACTUALLY-- I ACTUALLY KNOW STORIES FROM

>> 史蒂芬：我真的... ...我真的知道一些故事。

PEOPLE WHO DID CONSTRUCTION IN BALTIMORE IN THE 1960s AND

六十年代和七十年代在巴爾的摩從事建築工作的人。

50s.

50s.

AND GOING IN TO GET YOUR PERMITTING, YOU HAD TO GET PAST

你要去申請許可，就必須通過以下程序

SPIRO AGNEW.

SPIRO AGNEW。

AND HE WOULD LITERALLY SAY, "WE'VE GOT A FEW PROBLEMS WITH

他真的會說，"我們有一些問題，與

YOUR PLAN," AND HE WOULD LEAVE THE OFFICE, OPEN HIS DRAWERS,

"你的計劃"，然後他就會離開辦公室，打開他的抽屜。

WALK OUT, AND COME BACK IN AND HE WOULD SEE-- IF THERE WAS NO

走出去，然後再回來，他就會看到 -- 如果沒有的話。

CASH IN THE DRAWER, HE WOULD SAY, "WE STILL HAVE A FEW

在抽屜裡的現金，他說，"我們仍然有一些。

PROBLEMS WITH YOUR PERMIT."

許可證的問題。"

THERE'S A LEGACY OF SPIRO AGNEW'S CORRUPTION AND HIS

有一個遺留的SPIRO AGNEW的腐敗和他的。

RELATIONSHIP WITH RICHARD NIXON THAT LASTS TO THIS DAY AND HAS

與尼克松的關係，一直持續到今天，並已。

ACTUALLY INFLUENCED THE LAST FOUR YEARS OF THE INVESTIGATIONS

在過去四年的調查中實際受到影響的人的情況

INTO THIS PRESIDENT.

進入本主席。

IT'S FASCINATING.

這是很有趣的。

EXPLAIN TO THE PEOPLE WHY HE ACTUALLY KIND OF PUTS OUR OWN

向人們解釋為什麼他實際上有點推我們自己的。

JUSTICE SYSTEM IN A BIND WHEN IT COMES TO THE PRESIDENT.

司法系統在總統問題上陷入困境。

>> AGNEW IS THE LAST GUY BEFORE TRUMP WHERE THERE'S PROSECUTORS

>> 阿紐是特朗普之前最後一個有檢察官的人。

INVESTIGATING CRIME.

調查犯罪；

THEY IDENTIFY THE PERP, THE GUY'S IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

他們認出了白房子裡的那個PERP。

AND THEY HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.

而他們必須想辦法解決這個問題。

AND IN AGNEW'S CASE, THEY HAD TO DECIDE AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT

而在阿紐的案件中，他們必須在司法部門做出決定。

WHETHER OR NOT HE COULD BE INDICTED.

不管他是否會被起訴。

AND HIS LAWYERS ARGUED THAT HE COULDN'T BE INDICTED.

而他的律師認為他不能被起訴。

HE COULD ONLY BE IMPEACHED.

他只能被彈劾。

AGNEW ACTUALLY WENT TO THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE AT THE TIME

阿紐實際上是去找當時的眾議院發言人了

AND ASKED TO BE IMPECHED.

並要求被IMPECHED。

PLEASE INVESTIGATE ME AND IMPEACH ME.

請調查我，並責問我。

HE THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA.

他認為這將是一個偉大的想法。

HE THOUGHT THAT WOULD PUT OFF THE PROSPECT OF BEING INDICTED.

他以為這樣就能避免被起訴的可能性。

BUT NIXON WHO HAS A COMPLETELY OTHER SCANDAL-- WATERGATE IS A

但尼克松誰有一個完全其他的醜聞 - 水門是一個。

TOTAL OTHER THING FOR WHICH HE THINKS HE'S GOING TO LOSE

他認為自己會輸的其他事情總數。

OFFICE-- HE DOESN'T WANT THE WHEELS OF IMP PECHMENT TO START

辦公室，他不希望輪子上的IMP PECHMENT開始了

AROUND AGNEW BECAUSE THEY THINK IT WILL TURN AROUND AND IMPEACH

圍繞著新的，因為他們認為它會轉過來，並執行。

HIM.

他：

HE SAID I WANT YOU TO LOOK INTO THIS, AND WHAT I WANT YOU TO

他說我想讓你看看這個，而我想讓你看的是什麼。

FIND IS THAT AGNEW DEFINITELY CAN BE INDICTED, SO HE DOESN'T

發現AGNEW肯定能被指控，所以他不。

GET IMPEACHED.

得到被起訴。

BUT I CAN'T BE INDICTED AT ALL.

但我不能被起訴。

COULD YOU DECIDE THAT, PLEASE.

你能不能決定，請。

AND BECAUSE OF THAT SORT OF DIFFERENCE OF INTEREST BETWEEN

因為兩者之間的興趣不同，所以...

NIXON AND AGNEW, AND BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THEY HATED EACH

尼克松和阿格紐，因為他們恨對方的事實。

OTHER AND WERE BOTH TRYING TO THROW EACH OTHER UNDER THE BUS

彼此都想把對方扔到巴士上

AT THAT TIME, AND THEY WERE BOTH FELONS, WE ENDED UP UP WITH THIS

在那個時候，和他們都是罪犯，我們結束了與此。

JUSTICE DEPARTMENT POLICY THAT SAYS PRESIDENTS CAN'T BE

司法部的政策規定，總統不能被。

INDICTED.

指控：

>> Stephen: THAT'S JUST A MEMO FROM MITCHELL'S OFFICE, RIGHT?

>> 這只是MITCHELL辦公室的備忘錄，對吧？ That's JUST A MEMO FROM MITCHELL'S OFFICE, RIGHT?

THE CONTINUAL AT THE TIME.

當時的連續。

>> A MEMO FROM THE OFFICE OF LEGAL COUNSEL AT THE TIME THAT

>> 法律顧問辦公室當時的備忘錄。

THE AGNEW THING IS GETTING FORCED INTO THE COURTS.

新的東西是被逼上法庭的。

AND IT'S BASICALLY A FAVOR TO NIXON AND IT'S A MESS, AND

它基本上是一個青睞尼克松 它是一個爛攤子，並

THERE'S NO SIGN AT ALL-- WE TALKED TO PEOPLE INVOLVED WITH

沒有任何跡象 -- 我們和參與的人談過了

THAT.

那。

THERE'S NO INDICATION THEY MEANT THAT TO BE A CONTROLLING "GET

沒有任何跡象表明他們的意思是一個控制性的 "GET"。

OUT OF JAIL FREE" CARD FOR EVERY PRESIDENT WHO CAME AFTER.

出獄免費 "卡給每一位後來的主席。

BUT IT TURNED INTO ONE.

但它變成了一個。

AND THAT'S WHAT DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN BENEFITING FROM.

這就是唐納德・特朗普的利益。

THAT'S WHY MUELLER DIDN'T LAY OUT ANY CRIMES TRUMP MIGHT HAVE

這就是為什麼穆勒沒有列出任何犯罪特朗普可能有。

COMMITTED.

承諾：

THAT'S WHY HE WAS "INDIVIDUAL 1" AND AN UNINDICTED COCONSPIRATOR

這就是為什麼他是 "個人1號 "和未被證實的同謀的原因

INSTEAD OF INDICTED IN A HUSH MONEY.

而不是被起訴到催款。

TRUMP ORS THAT HE'S NOT IN PRISON OR UNDER INDICTMENT TO

特朗普表示，他沒有入獄，也沒有被起訴。

SPIRO AGNEW.

SPIRO AGNEW。

>> Stephen: THE BOOK IS "BAG MAN.

>> Stephen:這本書是 "袋人"。

IT'S AVAILABLE NOW.

現在就有了。

SHE IS RACHEL MADDOW.

她是RACHEL MADDOW。

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH RAPPER MEGAN THEE STALLION.

我們馬上回來，與RAPPER MEGAN THEE STALLION。

RACHEL, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

RACHEL，謝謝你來這裡。