The high court ruled that Children under 16 are unlikely to be able to give informed consent toe undergo treatment with puberty blocking drugs.

高等法院裁定，16歲以下兒童不太可能在知情的情況下同意接受青春期阻斷藥物的治療。

The case was brought by key Rebel who've been prescribed the drugs age 16 against London's Tavist Aacm Portman Trust.

此案是由已經開出藥物年齡16歲的關鍵叛逆者對倫敦的Tavist Aacm Portman Trust提出的。

Over the past 18 months.

在過去的18個月裡。

Newsnight is reported on a Siris of concerns raised about the trusts use of puberty blockers.

新聞之夜》報道了一個Siris對信託公司使用青春期阻斷劑的擔憂。

We've also reported on the challenges some clinicians said they had in raising questions about the care some young people received at the trust's Gender Identity Development Service, England's only NHS service for young people questioning their gender identity.

我們還報道了一些臨床醫生說他們在對一些年輕人在信託的性別認同發展服務中獲得的護理提出疑問時遇到的挑戰，這是英格蘭唯一為質疑其性別認同的年輕人提供的NHS服務。

Okay, at the heart of today's ruling is the role puberty blockers play in a young person's treatment.

好吧，今天裁決的核心是青春期阻斷劑在年輕人治療中的作用。

The court found.

法院認為：

There is really uncertainty over the short and long term consequences of the treatment with very limited evidence as to its efficacy.

在療效證據非常有限的情況下，治療的短期和長期後果確實存在不確定性。

This means it is in our view properly described as experimental treatment.

這意味著在我們看來，它被正確地描述為實驗性治療。

But what is the purpose of the drugs?

但藥物的目的是什麼？

The Tavis Stock and others have long argued that puberty blockers allow young person time to think about the gender identity without the added distress of going through puberty.

Tavis Stock等人長期以來一直認為，青春期阻斷劑可以讓年輕人有時間去思考性別認同，而不會增加經歷青春期的痛苦。

But the judges questioned whether it was that straightforward.

但法官們質疑是否有這麼直接。

The court also went further, rejecting The Tavis Doc trusts argument that the decision to take puberty blockers was entirely separate from the next stage of transitioning the use of cross sex hormones, testosterone for girls or east region for boys, the court said.

法院還進一步，拒絕了The Tavis Doc trusts的論點，即採取青春期阻斷劑的決定與過渡使用交叉性激素的下一階段完全分開，女孩的睪丸激素或男孩的東部地區，法院說。

The evidence that we have on this issue clearly shows that practically all Children and young people who start puberty blockers progress on to cross sex hormones.

我們在這個問題上的證據清楚地表明，實際上所有開始服用青春期阻斷劑的兒童和年輕人都會進展到交叉性激素。

So what does all this mean for informed consent?

那麼這些對於知情同意來說意味著什麼呢？

The available evidence suggests that starting puberty blockers would likely mean a young person would then go on to take cross sex hormones with a child under the age of 16.

現有的證據表明，開始服用青春期阻斷劑很可能意味著一個年輕人會繼續與16歲以下的孩子服用跨性激素。

Fully understand the implications of this on their bodies in the long term.

充分了解這對他們身體的長期影響。

In effect, the court said no.

實際上，法院說沒有。

It said it was doubtful informed consent was possible for under 16, and even for those who were 16 or 17, it would be appropriate to involve the court where there is any doubt treatment was in their long term best interests.

它說，16歲以下的人能否獲得知情同意令人懷疑，即使是16歲或17歲的人，如果對治療是否符合他們的長期最佳利益有任何懷疑，也應該讓法院介入。

There is no age appropriate way to explain to many of these Children what losing their fertility or full sexual function may mean to them in later years.

沒有任何年齡合適的方式向這些兒童解釋失去生育能力或全部性功能對他們以後的生活意味著什麼。

In this ruling, there are no winners.

在這個裁決中，沒有贏家。

As of today, there will be no new referrals for puberty blockers for under 16 from the Gender Identity Development Service.

從今天起，性別認同發展服務處將不再為16歲以下的青少年轉診服用青春期阻斷劑。

Andi Tonight Newsnight has learned that Jed's will have to review all current cases of Children under 16 who are on blockers and get a court order if they wish to continue treatment.

安迪今晚新聞夜瞭解到，傑德的將不得不審查目前所有16歲以下的兒童在阻斷器上的案例，並獲得法院命令，如果他們希望繼續治療。

But for the thousands of Children waiting to be seen by the clinic, it's unclear what help there will be for them.

但對於數以千計等待診所看病的兒童來說，目前還不清楚對他們有什麼幫助。

Deb Cohen with that report What we asked the Tavis Stock Trust to join us tonight.

Deb Cohen帶著那份報告，我們要求Tavis股票信託基金今晚加入我們。

Nobody there was available.

那裡沒有人可用。

In a statement, they said the trust is disappointed by today's judgment, and we understand the outcome is likely to cause anxiety for patients and their families.

他們在一份聲明中表示，信託機構對今天的判決感到失望，我們理解這個結果很可能會給患者及其家屬帶來焦慮。

Our first duty is to our patients, particularly those currently receiving hormone blocking treatment on.

我們的首要職責是對我們的患者，特別是那些目前正在接受激素阻斷治療的患者。

We're working with our partners to provide support for patients concerned about the impact on their care, it added.

我們正在與我們的合作伙伴合作，為擔心對其護理的影響的患者提供支持，它補充說。

The trust, seeking permission to appeal the judgment will not be making new referrals to endocrinology until we have more clarity.

信託，尋求允許上訴的判決將不會向內分泌科進行新的轉診，直到我們有更多的明確性。

Joining me now is one of the claimants.

現在和我一起的是一位索賠人。

In that case, Kira Bell won the case today.

在這種情況下，基拉-貝爾今天贏得了這個案子。

Curator for those who don't know you just outline your own story for us.

策劃不知道的人你就給我們勾勒一下自己的故事。

Briefly?

簡單說一下？

Uh, yes.

嗯，是的。

So I was referred to the clinic at age 15, and I was seen from age 16 on.

所以我15歲就被介紹到診所，從16歲開始看病。

I was put on puberty blockers that same year, on gone to test us throwing the next year on Ben.

我被放在青春期阻斷劑上，同年，就去測試我們扔下一年的本。

I went on to surgery through the adult clinic.

我通過成人診所去做手術。

Just explain to us you suffered gender dysphoria.

只要向我們解釋一下你患有性別分裂症就可以了。

A za girl on you felt that you wanted to transition to become a bought a man.

一個扎妹子就你覺得你想轉型成為一個買來的男人。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

And then what happened?

然後發生了什麼？

Eso Yeah, when I when I first arrived at the at the clinic.

是啊，當我當我剛到診所的時候。

You know my belief.

你知道我的信念。

You know that I was a boy or you know, that I should become a boy was affirmed.

你知道我是個男孩，或者你知道，我應該成為一個男孩是肯定的。

Um, you know, there was no investigation into why I had those feelings, you know, it was it was pretty much accepted from the get go on, you know?

嗯，你知道，沒有調查 為什麼我有這樣的感覺， 你知道，這是 這是相當多的接受 從得到去，你知道嗎？

Yeah.

是啊。

Medical interventions were spoken off quite quickly.

醫療干預措施很快就被說掉了。

So you went ahead.

所以你就去了。

You had you had the blockers you had surgery on.

你有你有封鎖者你有手術。

Then you decided that that wasn't the right course for you.

然後你決定那不是你的正確路線。

Yeah, Yeah, I'm just realizing.

是啊，是啊，我只是意識到。

I think that a lot of it isn't based in, you know, it doesn't have scientific evidence behind it, you know, and just realizing that, you know, it's not a healthy route to go.

我認為，很多是不 基於，你知道，它沒有 科學證據背後，你知道， 只是意識到，你知道， 這不是一個健康的路線去。

If you know, Aiken, you know, if I don't need to continue on with it, so I mean, it's it's incredibly personal.

如果你知道，艾肯，你知道，如果我不需要繼續用它，所以我的意思是，這是... ...這是令人難以置信的個人。

It's very sort of you specific.

這很有點你具體。

But in your case, you felt that what?

但在你的情況下，你覺得什麼？

They let you have access to the drugs too quickly.

他們讓你過快地接觸到藥物。

Is that right?

是這樣嗎？

That you should have been denied that because you weren't making a sound judgment?

你應該被拒絕，因為你沒有做出正確的判斷？

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah, that's right.

是的，這是正確的。

I was dealing with a lot of other mental health issues.

我在處理很多其他的心理健康問題。

Also on Do you know a lot of past issues that hadn't been brought up again?

也是在你知道很多過去沒有再提的問題嗎？

It wasn't investigated, so yeah, there's always a lot of issues going on behind the scenes, you know, definitely in my experience.

它沒有被調查，所以，是的，總是有很多問題 在幕後，你知道，絕對在我的經驗。

And I think, you know, with current kind of trend that we're seeing off young girls being referred to the clinic.

我認為，你知道，與目前的那種趨勢 我們看到關閉年輕女孩 被介紹到診所。

I guess that this judgment would stop them handing out the treatment straight away or after a short amount of counseling.

我想，這個判斷會讓他們直接停止發放治療，或者經過短時間的諮詢後再發放。

But if you you know it's an articular young woman went to the court and said, I really mean this and I'm serious about it.

但如果你你知道這是一個關節型的年輕女子去法院說，我真的是認真的，我是認真的。

There's every chance that the court would still have allowed you to do something which you would later regret, isn't there?

法院完全有可能還會允許你做一些你以後會後悔的事情，不是嗎？

I wouldn't say so because, you know, they would have actually looked into the reasons why I wanted Thio proceed with the treatment.

我不會這麼說，因為，你知道，他們會真正研究 為什麼我想Thio繼續治療的原因。

I'm sure that the mental health issues and everything that should have bean discovered at the Tavistock would have bean brought out in the courts.

我相信在塔維斯托克發現的精神健康問題和所有應該被發現的東西都會在法庭上提出來。

There will be thousands of young people tonight who will be terrified by this judgment, as you know, terrified that this will stop them living the life that they need to be incredibly distress.

今晚會有成千上萬的年輕人被這個判決嚇壞了，你知道的，嚇壞了，這將阻止他們過上他們需要的生活，令人難以置信的痛苦。

Because something that didn't work for you may still work on be very important to them.

因為對你不起作用的東西，可能對他們來說還是很重要的。

Yeah.

是啊。

I mean, I think when we're dealing with the topic of mental health, you know, obviously emotions will be running high, and I understand that, you know, I would have been in the same position, perhaps as you know, you know someone, uh, age 16, for example.

我的意思是，我認為當我們處理 與心理健康的話題， 你知道，很明顯的情緒 將運行高， 我明白，你知道， 我會一直在同樣的位置，

You know, listening to you know, what happened today.

你知道，聽你知道，今天發生了什麼。

But, you know, again, the high court, you know, they came to their decision, You know, the high tier judges on, you know, they looked a worry about the kids.

但是，你知道，再一次，高等法院， 你知道，他們來了他們的決定， 你知道，高層法官，你知道， 他們看著擔心孩子們。

Now who?

現在是誰？

I mean, some of them might even have their current drug treatment.

我的意思是，他們中的一些人甚至可能有他們目前的藥物治療。

Yeah, stopped.

是的，停止了。

Do you do?

你有嗎？

Well, Yeah, of course.

嗯，是的，當然。

Yeah.

是啊。

I'm definitely concerned about them.

我肯定擔心他們。

And I completely empathize with them.

我也完全理解他們的心情。

You know, I think that a mental health services need to be put in place to help that person through, You know, the period that they're going through.

你知道，我認為，一個心理健康服務 需要到位，以幫助該人 通過，你知道，期間，他們正在經歷。

You know, I think that's that's the vital.

你知道，我認為這是 這是至關重要的。

That's what needs to happen.

這就是需要發生的事情。

Because for every care, a bell, that could be somebody who isn't allowed and wants to be allowed.

因為每一個關懷，一個鐘頭，那可能是一個不被允許，又想被允許的人。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah, absolutely.

是的，絕對的。

But again, the high court, you know, they came to the conclusion that it isn't possible for particularly under sixteens toe consent to that treatment in those protections are put in place for a reason.

但是，再次，高等法院，你知道，他們得出的結論是，它是不可能的，特別是16歲以下的青少年同意的治療，在這些保護措施的地方是有原因的。

Kerry Bell.

Kerry Bell

Thank you.

謝謝你了

Thank you very much for coming in.

非常感謝你的到來。

Let's speak now to Susie Green, the CEO of Mermaid to charity, which supports transgender Children and teenagers on their parents.

現在讓我們來談談蘇西-格林，美人魚的首席執行官到慈善機構，支持變性兒童和青少年對他們的父母。

Susie Greene, NHS, England, have said tonight that they welcome the clarity that this judgment brings on.

英國NHS的蘇西-格林今晚表示，他們歡迎這一判決帶來的明確性。

They have amended their service specifications, even including those who are actually on blockers on day will be reviewed starting immediately.

他們修改了服務規範，甚至包括當天真正上了封殺令的人也將從即日起接受審查。

Your response.

你的回答。

I think it's a disaster.

我認為這是一場災難。

Quite frankly, I think this is ushering a new era of discrimination against trans people.

坦率地說，我認為這是在開創一個歧視變性人的新時代。

Nobody else has got this kind of measures in terms of young people and their autonomy over their own bodies is only young people who are transit were being subjected to this.

在年輕人和他們對自己身體的自主權方面，沒有人有這樣的措施，只有過境的年輕人才會受到這樣的影響。

Andi, I can't go into individual instances because obviously that would violate people's privacy.

安迪，我不能說到個別的例子，因為很明顯那會侵犯人們的隱私。

But we've seen today the devastating impact of this judgment is already having on will continue to have over the next few months and years to come.

但是，我們今天已經看到了這一判決的破壞性影響，它已經在未來幾個月和幾年內將繼續產生。

Our help line and our foreign has been swamped by families and young people who are personally impacted on the inevitable rising self harm and suicide suicide.

我們的幫助熱線和我們的外國已經被家庭和年輕人誰是個人影響上不可避免的上升的自我傷害和自殺自殺。

Ality we are seeing is worrying.

我們所看到的Ality是令人擔憂的。

Let's deal.

我們來交易吧

If you don't mind, let's deal with those separately.

如果你不介意，讓我們分別處理這些問題。

This is not as you'll know, it's not denial.

這不是你會知道的，這不是否認。

All it does is put it back to the courts to make the final decision.

它所做的只是把它放回法院，讓法院做出最終的決定。

So they're not saying no one can have this treatment.

所以他們不是說沒有人可以接受這種治療。

They're just saying we need to get this right.

他們只是說，我們需要得到這個權利。

We need an extra level of checking so we don't end up with a kind of regret that you just heard a moment ago from Kira.

我們需要多一層檢查，這樣我們就不會落得一種你剛才從基拉那裡聽到的遺憾。

Yeah, but you've gotta appreciate that.

是啊，但你得欣賞。

Kira's experience, although obviously valid, is not representative of the vast majority of people who go through this process.

基拉的經歷雖然顯然是有道理的，但並不能代表絕大多數經歷這個過程的人。

There's less than a 1% regret after transition.

轉型後的遺憾不到1%。

Are we saying that it's so much better not to be Trans?

我們是說，不做Trans就好得多嗎？

That will sacrifice the happiness of those 99 trans young people who need this treatment?

這將犧牲那99個需要這種待遇的跨性別年輕人的幸福？

I guess what we're saying is that the court weighed up thousands of pages of evidence.

我想我們的意思是說，法庭權衡了幾千頁的證據。

They took those views into account.

他們考慮到了這些意見。

They heard from young people three kids patients who were submitted by the Tavis Stock.

他們從年輕人那裡聽到了三個孩子的病人，他們是由泰威股份提交的。

They've done their homework on this, and they think more protection on more guidance for young people is used with these highly unusual, innovative drugs that they know very little about.

他們在這方面做了功課，他們認為對年輕人更多的保護更多的指導是用於這些高度不尋常的創新藥物，他們對這些藥物知之甚少。

These have been used for over three decades.

這些已經使用了三十多年。

This is no experimental treatment, not in this specific way to start the transitioning process, which, as you know it does.

這不是實驗性的治療，不是用這種具體的方式來啟動過渡過程，你知道，它是這樣做的。

They have the Dutch.

他們有荷蘭人。

The Dutch instigated this kind of treatment in the 19 eighties late 19 eighties.

荷蘭人在19世紀80年代末鼓動了這種待遇。

This has been used routinely to treat gender dysphoria and to hold puberty for many, many years.

多年來，人們一直常規使用這種方法來治療性別不協調和把持青春期。

This is no experimental, and there are so many studies out there that show how efficient this is, how much it helps young people, how much it helps them to live their lives.

這不是實驗，外面有那麼多的研究，說明這個效率有多高，對年輕人有多大幫助，對他們的生活有多大幫助。

This is literally life saving.

這簡直就是救命稻草。

Treatment is now.

治療是現。

I'm not sure that you can say it's life saving because we know that any suicide is way too many.

我不知道你能不能說這是救人的，因為我們知道，任何自殺的人都是太多了。

But there is no strong evidence to support that.

但沒有有力的證據支持。

This is either lifesaving or that this increases the risk of suicide, kids own Website says.

孩子們自己的網站說，這要麼是救命的，要麼是這增加了自殺的風險。

Thankfully, suicide is extremely rare, so to say it is lifesaving is dangerous.

值得慶幸的是，自殺的情況極為罕見，所以說自殺救人是很危險的。

It's different territory.

這是不同的領域。

I don't think so, Not when this is anecdotal.

我不這麼認為，當這是傳聞的時候就不會了。

This is what parents are saying to us.

這是父母對我們說的。

This is what families and young people are saying to us that this is literally something that they desperately needed, that their Children desperately needed that this is something that literally saved their lives.

這就是家庭和年輕人對我們說的，這是字面上的東西，他們迫切需要，他們的孩子迫切需要，這是字面上的東西，救了他們的生命。

So this is anecdotally from parents.

所以這是家長們的傳聞。

I've been working in this field for, like over 21 years because, Andi, I've seen literally thousands of families, and I have seen the difference.

我在這個領域工作了21年，因為，安迪，我已經看到了成千上萬的家庭，我已經看到了差異。

The positive difference that access to puberty blockers gives to young people that allows them to get on and live their lives without the torture that is puberty.

獲得青春期阻斷劑給年輕人帶來的積極變化，使他們能夠繼續生活，不受青春期的折磨。

Having Thio we'll stop there is horrendous on this.

有Thio我們就停在那裡，這一點很可怕。

How is basically gonna force potentially thousands of young people to experience that it was e think it's different?

如何基本上是要去迫使潛在的成千上萬的年輕人體驗，這是E認為這是不同的？

I wouldn't I wouldn't for a moment contradict your own experience or what you've heard from young people because, as we said a moment ago, this is intensely personal and every single person is different.

我不會我不會片刻反駁你自己的經驗或你從年輕人那裡聽到的東西，因為，正如我們剛才所說，這是強烈的個人化，每個人都是不同的。

But what the judges have said is that the evidence base for the treatment is highly uncertain.

但法官說的是，治療的證據基礎是非常不確定的。

It's an experimental treatment on.

這是一種實驗性的治療，在。

Even when I was speaking to the Tavis stock a year ago, Elizabeth Van Horn says the evidence is not gold standard.

即便是一年前我在和泰威股份交流時，伊麗莎白-範霍恩也說證據不是金標準。

They do not have the evidence to try and draw conclusions about the benefits of this on.

他們並沒有證據來試圖對這一好處下結論。

Surely an extra layer of protection can only be a good thing.

多一層保護當然只能是好事。

Is there any other treatment pathway, whether it is new or established or or well versed that has ever had to go through a court for a young person to be able to access?

是否有任何其他的治療途徑，不管是新的還是成熟的，或者是精通的，都必須通過法院才能讓年輕人獲得？

I don't think so.

我不這麼認為。

On, I think, whether it is deemed as being experimental or not, whether they're going to ignore the breadth of international evidence that shows how good this treatment works for young people in the positive outcomes, even if they ignore all of that.

在我看來，不管它是否被認為是實驗性的，他們是否會忽視國際證據的廣泛性，這些證據表明這種治療對年輕人的積極成果有多好，即使他們忽視所有這些。

Even if they ignore all of that, they listen to young people.

即使他們不理會這些，他們也會聽從年輕人的意見。

Susie Greene.

蘇西-格林

Thank you very much for joining us.

非常感謝您的加入。

Thank you.

謝謝你了

Thank you.

謝謝你了