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  • Pat Mitchell: Your first time back on the TEDWomen stage.

    帕特·米歇爾:妳第一次回到 TEDWomen

  • Sheryl Sandberg: First time back. Nice to see everyone. It's always so nice to look out

    雪莉·桑德伯格:是的 很高興見到大家,總是很高興

  • and see so many women.


  • It's so not my regular experience, as I know anyone else's.

    這不像是我平常會有的經驗 我想其他人也是

  • PM: So when we first started talking about, maybe the subject wouldn't be social media,

    我們第一次談話時 或許主題不算是社群媒體

  • which we assumed it would be, but that you had very much on your mind


  • the missing leadership positions, particularly in the sector of technology and social media.

    失落的領導位階 特別是科技與社群媒體

  • But how did that evolve for you as a thought, and end up being the TED Talk that you gave?

    但這些是如何讓妳產生想法 最後成為妳上次在 TED 談話的主題呢?

  • SS: So I was really scared to get on this stage and talk about women,


  • because I grew up in the business world, as I think so many of us did.

    因為我在商場上打滾 我想我們很多人都是如此

  • You never talk about being a woman, because someone might notice that you're a woman, right?

    妳不曾談論身為女性這件事 因為這會讓人發覺妳是一位女性

  • They might notice. Or worse, if you say "woman," people on the other end of the table

    他們可能會察覺,或者更糟 妳提到「女性」時,桌子另一頭的人

  • think you're asking for special treatment, or complaining.

    會覺得妳在要求 特別的待遇或是在抱怨

  • Or worse, about to sue them. And so I went through -- (Laughter)

    或者更糟的情況是要告發他們 所以我在我... (笑聲)

  • Right? I went through my entire business career,


  • and never spoke about being a woman, never spoke about it publicly.


  • But I also had noticed that it wasn't working.


  • I came out of college over 20 years ago, and I thought


  • that all of my peers were men and women, all the people above me were all men,

    我的同事有男有女 但老闆都是男的

  • but that would change,


  • because your generation had done such an amazing job fighting for equality,

    因為妳們這一代為了平等 做了許多驚人的貢獻

  • equality was now ours for the taking. And it wasn't.


  • Because year after year, I was one of fewer and fewer,


  • and now, often the only woman in a room.


  • And I talked to a bunch of people about,


  • should I give a speech at TEDWomen about women, and they said, oh no, no.

    我應該在 TEDWomen 提到女性嗎? 他們都說不要不要

  • It will end your business career. You cannot be a serious business executive

    這會毀了妳的工作 妳無法同時是執行長

  • and speak about being a woman. You'll never be taken seriously again.

    又談論女性議題 這樣沒有人會再把妳當一回事

  • But fortunately, there were the few, the proud -- like you -- who told me I should give the speech,

    但幸運地,還有些人,值得驕傲的人 像是妳,告訴我應該談論這議題

  • and I asked myself the question Mark Zuckerberg might --

    而我問自己一個問題 這也是馬克·祖克柏

  • the founder of Facebook and my boss --


  • asks all of us, which is, what would I do if I wasn't afraid?

    也可能會問我們的問題 那就是如果我不退縮的話會怎麼做?

  • And the answer to what would I do if I wasn't afraid is I would get on the TED stage,

    而答案是,如果我不退縮 我就會站在 TED 的講台上

  • and talk about women, and leadership. And I did, and survived. (Applause)

    談論女性議題和領導力 我做到了,而且活過來了(掌聲)

  • PM: I would say, not only survived. I'm thinking of that moment, Sheryl,

    我想說,不單只是活過來 雪莉,我想到當時

  • when you and I were standing backstage together, and you turned to me,


  • and you told me a story.


  • And I said -- very last minute -- you know, you really should share that story.

    在最後一刻,我跟妳說 妳真的應該分享這個故事

  • SS: Oh, yeah. PM: What was that story?

    沒錯 那是什麼故事?

  • SS: Well, it's an important part of the journey. So I had -- TEDWomen --

    那是旅程中很重要的一部分 TEDWomen 一開始

  • the original one was in D.C. -- so I live here, so I had gotten on a plane the day before,

    是在華盛頓特區,我住在這裡 所以我前一天就要搭飛機過去

  • and my daughter was three, she was clinging to my leg: "Mommy, don't go."

    我3歲女兒則是纏著我的腿 說:「媽咪不要走」

  • And Pat's a friend, and so, not related to the speech I was planning on giving,

    帕特則是我的朋友 所以這跟我要演講的無關

  • which was chock full of facts and figures, and nothing personal,

    演講是關於事實和圖表 不是私人的經驗

  • I told Pat the story. I said, well, I'm having a hard day.

    我跟帕特講了這個故事 說我有個難過的一天

  • Yesterday my daughter was clinging to my leg, and "Don't go."


  • And you looked at me and said, you have to tell that story.


  • I said, on the TED stage? Are you kidding?

    我說,在 TED 台上嗎? 妳開玩笑的吧?

  • I'm going to get on a stage and admit my daughter was clinging to my leg?

    我要站在講台上 然後承認我女兒纏著我的腿?

  • And you said yes, because if you want to talk about getting more women into leadership roles,

    妳說,對,如果妳要讓更多女性 扮演領導者的角色

  • you have to be honest about how hard it is.


  • And I did. And I think that's a really important part of the journey.

    而我就真的講了這故事 那真的是旅程中很重要的一部分

  • The same thing happened when I wrote my book. I started writing the book. I wrote a first chapter,

    同樣的事在我寫書的時候又發生一次 我開始寫書,寫了第一章

  • I thought it was fabulous. It was chock-full of data and figures,

    我認為寫得很好 都是數據和圖表

  • I had three pages on matrilineal Maasai tribes, and their sociological patterns.

    我有三頁在講 母系社會的馬賽部落和其社會習性

  • My husband read it and he was like, this is like eating your Wheaties. (Laughter)

    我老公讀了之後他覺得 這像是在吃威迪(Wheaties)麥片 (笑聲)

  • No one -- and I apologize to Wheaties if there's someone -- no one, no one will read this book.

    沒有人 -- 如果這裡有吃威迪麥片的人 我先說抱歉 -- 沒有人會讀這本書的

  • And I realized through the process that I had to be more honest and more open,

    在過程中,我發現 我必須要更坦白更放得開

  • and I had to tell my stories. My stories of still not feeling as self-confident as I should,

    我必須要講我自己的故事 在很多情況下對自己不夠有自信的故事

  • in many situations. My first and failed marriage. Crying at work.

    我第一次失敗的婚姻 工作時掉眼淚

  • Felling like I didn't belong there, feeling guilty to this day.


  • And part of my journey, starting on this stage, going to "Lean In," going to the foundation,

    我的旅程某部分從這個台上開始 一直到《挺身而進》出版,再到基金會

  • is all about being more open and honest about those challenges,

    全部都是更開闊 更坦然地去面對這些挑戰

  • so that other women can be more open and honest,

    所以其他女性也能 更開闊更坦然地去面對

  • and all of us can work together towards real equality.


  • PM: I think that one of the most striking parts about the book,


  • and in my opinion, one of the reasons it's hit such a nerve and is resonating around the world,

    我認為,這本書能切中要害 在全世界引起共鳴

  • is that you are personal in the book, and that you do make it clear that,

    某個原因是妳在書裡分享私人的經驗 而且講得很清楚

  • while you've observed some things that are very important for other women to know,

    妳發現某些事 是其他女性也必須知道的

  • that you've had the same challenges that many others of us have,


  • as you faced the hurdles and the barriers and possibly the people who don't believe the same.

    妳面對的障礙和困難 可能其他人並不相信是一致的

  • So talk about that process: deciding you'd go public with the private part,

    跟我們談談這個過程: 妳決定公開妳私人的生活

  • and then you would also put yourself in the position of something of an expert


  • on how to resolve those challenges.


  • SS: After I did the TED Talk, what happened was --

    我在 TED 演講之後,接下來

  • you know, I never really expected to write a book, I'm not an author, I'm not a writer,

    我沒有想過會去寫一本書 我並不是一位作家

  • and it was viewed a lot, and it really started impacting people's lives.

    但很多人看了這本書 也開始影響很多人的生活

  • I got this great --- one of the first letters I got was from a woman

    我覺得很棒 -- 我收到的第一封信 是來自一位女性

  • who said that she was offered a really big promotion at work, and she turned it down,

    說她的工作獲得升遷 但她拒絕了

  • and she told her best friend she turned it down, and her best friend said,

    她跟她的好朋友說她拒絕了 她好朋友說

  • you really need to watch this TED Talk.

    妳真的應該去看看這個 TED 演講

  • And so she watched this TED Talk, and she went back the next day, she took the job,

    她去看了 TED 演講 第二天回去上班,她接受了升遷

  • she went home, and she handed her husband the grocery list. (Laughter)

    她回家後 把購物清單交給她老公(笑聲)

  • And she said, I can do this.


  • And what really mattered to me -- it wasn't only women in the corporate world,

    對我真正有意義的是 它不只影響在公司中的女性

  • even though I did hear from a lot of them, and it did impact a lot of them,

    雖然回應有很多是來自商場上的女性 也確實深深影響她們

  • it was also people of all different circumstances.


  • There was a doctor I met who was an attending physician at Johns Hopkins,


  • and he said that until he saw my TED Talk, it never really occurred to him

    他說在他看 TED 之前 他從沒發現

  • that even though half the students in his med school classes were women,


  • they weren't speaking as much as the men as he did his rounds.


  • So he started paying attention, and as he waited for raised hands, he realized the men's hands were up.

    之後他開始留意,等學生舉手 結果他發現舉手的確實都是男生

  • So he started encouraging the women to raise their hands more,


  • and it still didn't work.


  • So he told everyone, no more hand raising, I'm cold-calling.

    他就告訴大家 不用舉手了,用叫名字的

  • So he could call evenly on men and women. And what he proved to himself was that

    他就男女均等的叫名 結果他發現

  • the women knew the answers just as well or better,


  • and he was able to go back to them and tell them that.


  • And then there was the woman, stay-at-home mom, lives in a really difficult neighborhood,

    還有一位家庭主婦 住在非常糟的社區

  • with not a great school, she said that TED Talk -- she's never had a corporate job,

    不是好的學區 她從沒在公司行號上班過

  • but that TED Talk inspired her to go to her school and fight for a better teacher for her child.

    但 TED 演講啟發她 讓她去學校替小孩爭取好的老師

  • And I guess it was part of was finding my own voice.


  • And I realized that other women and men could find their voice through it,

    我發覺其他女性和男性 也能找回自己的發聲權

  • which is why I went from the talk to the book.


  • PM: And in the book, you not only found your voice, which is clear and strong in the book,

    妳在書裡很明白的強調 妳不只是找回妳的發聲權

  • but you also share what you've learned --


  • the experiences of other people in the lessons.


  • And that's what I'm thinking about in terms of putting yourself in a --


  • you became a sort of expert in how you lean in.


  • So what did that feel like, and become like in your life?

    這是什麼的感覺? 對妳人生有什麼改變?

  • To launch not just a book, not just a best-selling, best-viewed talk,

    不只是出版一本最暢銷的書 或最多人瀏覽的演講

  • but a movement, where people began to literally describe their actions at work as,

    也是一個運動 讓人們開始可以說自己在職場上

  • I'm leaning in.


  • SS: I mean, I'm grateful, I'm honored, I'm happy, and it's the very beginning.

    我很感激,很榮幸,也很開心 這只是一個開始

  • So I don't know if I'm an expert, or if anyone is an expert. I certainly have done a lot of research.

    我不知道我是不是專家,或誰是專家 但我做了很多研究

  • I have read every study, I have pored over the materials,

    我研讀每一個報告 探究每一份資料

  • and the lessons are very clear. Because here's what we know:

    而我學到的是顯而易見的 因為我們知道:

  • What we know is that stereotypes are holding women back from leadership roles all over the world.

    刻版印象讓全世界的女性 難以坐上領導者的位子

  • It's so striking. "Lean In" is very global, I've been all over the world,

    這很驚人 「挺身而進」 是全球化的

  • talking about it, and -- cultures are so different.

    我在世界各地演講 各地文化差異很大

  • Even within our own country, to Japan, to Korea, to China, to Asia, Europe,

    就算在國內,在日本、韓國 中國、亞洲、歐洲

  • they're so different. Except for one thing: gender.

    文化都不一樣 但有一項例外:性別議題

  • All over the world, no matter what our cultures are,

    在這個世界上 不管我們是什麼文化

  • we think men should be strong, assertive, aggressive, have voice;

    我們都認為男性應該是強壯的 決斷的、積極的、有發言權的

  • we think women should speak when spoken to, help others.


  • Now we have, all over the world,


  • women are called "bossy." There is a word for "bossy,"

    女性很「跋扈」 在所有言語中

  • for little girls, in every language there's one.

    都有形容小女生「跋扈」 的字眼

  • It's a word that's pretty much not used for little boys,


  • because if a little boy leads, there's no negative word for it,

    因為小男生位居領導時 沒有負面的意義

  • it's expected. But if a little girl leads, she's bossy.

    那是預期中的 但小女生位居領導時,她就是跋扈

  • Now I know there aren't a lot of men here, but bear with me.

    我知道現場沒有太多男性 不過還是先忍耐一下

  • If you're a man, you'll have to represent your gender.

    如果你是男性 就請你代表全體的男生

  • Please raise your hand if you've been told you're too aggressive at work.


  • (Laughter) There's always a few, it runs about five percent. Okay, get ready, gentlemen.

    (笑聲) 總是會有一些的,大約是 5% 好,男士們請準備好

  • If you're a woman, please raise your hand if you've ever been told you're too aggressive at work.

    女士們,如果妳在工作上 被說過太積極的,請舉手

  • (Laughter) That is what audiences have said in every country in the world,

    (笑聲) 這就是每個國家都有的現象

  • and it's deeply supported by the data.


  • Now, do we think women are more aggressive than men? Of course not.

    我們真的認為女性比男性更積極? 當然不是

  • It's just that we judge them through a different lens,


  • and a lot of the character traits that you must exhibit to perform at work, to get results, to lead,


  • are ones that we think, in a man, he's a boss,


  • and in a woman, she's bossy.


  • And the good news about this is that we can change this by acknowledging it.

    好消息是,我們可以 因為認知這件事而改變它

  • One of the happiest moments I had in this whole journey is,


  • after the book came out, I stood on a stage with John Chambers, the CEO of Cisco.

    在書出版之後,我和思科 (Cisco) 的執行長 約翰·錢伯斯 (Chambers) 一同站在台上

  • He read the book. He stood on a stage with me, he invited me in front of his whole management team,

    他看了這本書,他邀請我與他同台 站在他經營團隊的前面

  • men and women, and he said, I thought we were good at this. I thought I was good at this.

    有男有女,他說,我以為 我們在這方面做得很好了

  • And then I read this book, and I realized that we -- my company --

    但我看了妳的書之後 我才發覺我們 -- 整個公司 --

  • we have called all of our senior women too aggressive,


  • and I'm standing on this stage, and I'm sorry.


  • And I want you to know we're never going to do it again.

    我要妳們知道 我們再也不會這樣認為了

  • PM: Can we send that to a lot of other people that we know? (Applause)

    我們可以把這件事 告訴我們認識的每個人吧?(掌聲)

  • SS: And so John is doing that because he believes it's good for his company,

    約翰這樣做是因為 他相信這對他公司是件好事

  • and so this kind of acknowledgement of these biases can change it.

    所以認知到有這樣的偏差 是可以改變現況的