because they made a bad choice at one point

因為他們曾經做過錯誤的選擇

in their life and that people can be rehabilitated.

在他們的生活中，人們可以得到改造。

So for me, I always say if someone does the crime,

所以對我來說，我總是說如果有人犯罪。

they should do time, but what is fair time?

他們應該做的時間，但什麼是公平的時間？

- I'm super excited to be here, talking to the great

- 我很興奮能在這裡，跟偉大的... ...

Kim Kardashian about "The Justice Project"

金-卡戴珊關於 "正義計劃"

which is this unbelievable documentary

這就是這部不可思議的紀錄片

that she's put so much blood, sweat, and tears into.

她投入了那麼多的血汗和淚水。

We are gonna be talking about the documentary

我們要談的是紀錄片

but not just the documentary, the fact that Kim Kardashian

但不僅僅是紀錄片，事實上，金-卡戴珊。

has become such a powerful advocate for criminal justice,

已成為刑事司法的有力倡導者。

why, what does her family think about it,

為什麼，她的家人是怎麼想的。

how does she feel about it,

她是怎麼想的呢。

how does she choose who to help?

她如何選擇幫助誰？

There's so many questions, but first, let me just say,

有這麼多問題，但首先，讓我說。

welcome to Kim Kardashian.

歡迎來到金-卡戴珊。

How you doing?

你好嗎？

- Hi, I'm good.

- 嗨，我很好。

It honestly feels good to get up and put on something else

起床穿上別的衣服的感覺真的很好

but pajamas, put on some makeup.

但睡衣，化點妝。

I miss work, you know.

我想念工作，你知道的。

It does feel good to get up.

起來的感覺確實不錯。

I had to sneak out and I'm in my mom's house.

我只好偷偷跑出來，我在我媽媽家。

We're all not seeing each other really,

我們都沒有看到對方真的。

so I had to go in her back door

所以我不得不從她的後門進去

and come in this room.

並來到這個房間。

I had to sneak away from my kids to be honest.

說實話，我不得不偷偷離開孩子。

So I'm loving this break [laughs].

所以我很喜歡這個休息時間[笑]。

- I know.

- 我知道，我知道

Well, it is important that we should probably just

好吧，重要的是，我們也許應該只是。

address that right at the very top.

解決這個問題，就在最上面。

We're in this age of the virus, this age of the pandemic,

我們正處在這個病毒的時代，這個大流行的時代。

the age of the quarantine.

檢疫的年齡。

What concerns do you have for people behind bars

你對監獄裡的人有什麼擔憂

in the age of the pandemic?

在大流行的時代，?

- Well, first of all, I wanna thank the governors

- 好吧，首先，我想感謝各位州長

who have been releasing some people that are incarcerated

釋放了一些被監禁的人的人。

which is amazing and I really commend them.

這是驚人的，我真的讚揚他們。

I sent a tweet out to Governor Newsom

我給紐森州長髮了一條推特。

thanking him for that.

感謝他。

I think that it's really tough for visits to be canceled

我認為，訪問被取消真的很不容易。

because of this and I understand that the logic behind it,

因為這個，我明白背後的邏輯。

but to not replace it with phone calls,

但為了不以電話代替。

with some kind of other interaction, I think is cruel

與其他互動，我認為是殘酷的

and there has to be some kinda change with that.

並有一些有點改變與。

That really breaks my heart that these people

這真的讓我很傷心，這些人

just have to now not have any connection with anybody

只需現在不與任何人有任何聯繫。

when they really depend on that.

當他們真正依靠這個。

- Absolutely and I know you're a good friend

- 當然，我知道你是個好朋友。

of Jessica Jackson and Erin Haney

Jessica Jackson和Erin Haney的

who are in the documentary which we're gonna get to,

誰是在紀錄片，我們會得到的。

have put out from the Reform Alliance,

已從改革聯盟放出。

this whole safer plan to try to get some people out.

這整個安全計劃 試圖讓一些人離開。

There are people who could come out safely,

有的人可以安全出來。

who are well and who are not a threat to anybody.

誰是好的，誰對任何人都不構成威脅。

Some of the governors have been asked

有些省長被要求

by the National Governors Association

全國州長協會

and others, Reform Alliance and others,

等，改革聯盟等。

to have fewer people going in.

以使進去的人減少。

If some petty stuff, don't put them in.

如果一些小事，就不要放進去了。

If they can come out safely and be on home confinement,

如果他們能安全出來，在家禁閉。

let them come out and then let's rush in medical supplies

讓他們出來，然後讓我們趕來醫療用品。

and masks and that kinda stuff.

和麵具和那種東西。

So there's a big effort to try to help people behind bars

所以，有一個很大的努力 試圖幫助人們在監獄裡的人

and I think a lot of the consciousness that people

我覺得很多人的意識

have about what's going on in the prisons has a lot to do

監獄裡發生的事情有很多關係

with the work that you've been doing

與你一直在做的工作

and many, many others.

還有許多許多其他的。

I noticed at the top of the documentary you pointed out

我注意到在紀錄片的頂部你指出了

that you are new to this issue and you're still learning

你是這個問題的新手，你還在學習。

about criminal justice.

關於刑事司法；

Why was it so important for you to say that at the top,

你為什麼要在最前面說這句話。

that you are a new comer to this cause?

你是新來的嗎？

- Because I am and I think sometimes the way

- 因為我是，我認為有時的方式

the media can spin something or make it seem

媒體能把事情搞得天花亂墜

like I am doing this all on my own and I'm not

就像我做這一切對我自己，我不

and I've always been really vocal

我一直都是真正的聲音

that's it a team of people.

這是它的一個團隊的人。

As soon as I read a letter or hear a case,

我一看到信或聽到案子。

I'll send it to Jessica and Erin,

我會把它發給傑西卡和艾琳。

who you introduced me to,

你把我介紹給誰。

and they are like my girl squad team of attorneys

他們就像我的女隊律師團隊一樣。

that we talk about every, we'll be up online

我們每天都在談論，我們會在網上。

all night long texting each other

通宵達旦

about specific cases about exactly what's going on,

關於具體的案例到底是怎麼回事。

what's going on with coronavirus in prisons.

監獄裡的冠狀病毒是怎麼回事？

Every last issue, we talk about,

每最後一期，我們都在談論。

and so I think one of the reasons I really wanted

所以我覺得我真正想要的原因之一是

to do this documentary is because I feel like it shows,

做這部紀錄片是因為我覺得它顯示。

it's my journey of what I've learned

吾日三省吾身

and I've never been shy to say that I started off

我從來沒有害羞地說，我開始的時候

probably judgmental and feeling like okay, well,

可能判斷和感覺像好，好。

Alice Johnson, nonviolent drug offender, I can handle that.

愛麗絲-約翰遜，非暴力毒品犯罪者，我可以處理。

As long as there was no violence involved,

只要不涉及暴力。

I can support that, until I started to educate myself

我可以支持這一點，直到我開始教育自己

and visit prisons and go and speak to people

並參觀監獄，去和人們交談。

that are incarcerated and understand their backstory.

被監禁的人，並瞭解他們的背景故事。

It's something that I never took the time

這是我從來沒有花時間的東西

to even think about before.

以至於之前想都不敢想。

I met with so many people that when they were a teenager,

我見過很多人，當他們還是少年的時候。

they committed horrific crimes,

他們犯下了可怕的罪行。

but now in their 30s, 40s, they are a completely different,

但現在30多歲，40多歲，他們是一個完全不同的。

rehabilitated person and even though they did that

改過自新的人，即使他們這樣做了。

and made that choice and mistake to do something

並做出了這種選擇和錯誤的事情

really awful, doesn't mean they are that mistake

糟透了，不代表他們就會犯錯。

and doesn't mean that they haven't rehabilitated

並不代表他們沒有改過自新。

and don't deserve a second chance at life.

而不應該有第二次生命的機會。

- When you're 16 years old,

- 當你16歲的時候

your brain isn't even really formed yet [laughs].

你的大腦甚至還沒有真正形成[笑]。

You can do something, you can have a bad weekend

你可以做一些事情，你可以有一個糟糕的週末。

or a bad summer and then get your act together

或一個糟糕的夏天，然後讓你的行為一起。

and then never have a problem again in life

從此一發不可收拾

if you grow up in the suburbs, if you have money.

如果你在郊區長大，如果你有錢。

But some people wind up in real trouble.

但有些人最後卻遇到了真正的麻煩。

Why is it so important to you to humanize people

為什麼人性化對你如此重要？

who have made really, really serious mistakes?

誰犯了非常非常嚴重的錯誤？

- I wanna humanize as many people as possible,

- 我想盡可能地讓更多的人人性化。

but not just in like a low level drug offense case.

但不只是在像一個低水平的毒品犯罪案件。

I wanted it to be in a sex trafficking case,

我希望它是在性交易案件中。

in every situation that you could imagine

無所不用其極

and really feel empathy.

並真正感受到同理心。

I just want people to feel empathy

我只是想讓人們產生共鳴

and so that they can feel that truly in their hearts,

並讓他們能夠真正的在心裡感受到這一點。

if they were to get to know people

如果他們要認識人

and hear their stories, that they would definitely feel safe

並聽取他們的故事，他們一定會感到安全。

with these people reentering back into our society.

與這些人重新回到我們的社會。

- And I think that's the great thing

- 我認為這是偉大的事情

about this documentary is, the people who you're showing,

關於這部紀錄片是，你所展示的人。

the people who somebody who actually killed a man,

誰的人誰真正殺了一個人。

you say to yourself, somebody killed a man?

你對自己說，有人殺了人？

I don't want that person ever to come back out.

我不希望那個人再出來。

And then you understand the circumstances

然後你就明白了情況

of her being trafficked and abused

她被販賣和虐待的情況

and all these different things.

和所有這些不同的東西。

You start to reveal and you start to think

你開始揭露，你開始思考

to yourself, okay, I've not got a different perspective.

對自己說，好吧，我沒有不同的看法。

I wanna ask you about the importance of context

我想問你關於背景的重要性

and that sort of stuff, but before I do that,

以及諸如此類的東西，但在我這樣做之前。

I still think a lot of people are just trying to get

我還是覺得很多人都是為了獲得

their minds wrapped around how could Kim Kardashian,

他們的心思繞在金-卡戴珊身上，怎麼可能。

megastar, superstar, be walking around in prisons

巨星，巨星，在監獄裡走來走去。

and jails and all this sorta stuff?

監獄和所有這些東西？

People first thought it was a publicity stunt,

人們首先認為這是一個宣傳的噱頭。

now it's a couple years later,

現在是幾年後的事了。

it's obviously not, you could get publicity doing whatever

這顯然不是，你可以得到宣傳做什麼的

you want to, this is clearly a passion.

你想，這顯然是一種激情。

But what would your dad think about this?

但你爸爸會怎麼想？

I mean your dad was a lawyer, I mean what would your father

我的意思是你的父親是一個律師，我的意思是什麼，你的父親會不會

think about what you're doing,

想想你在做什麼。

this turn your life has taken?

你的生活發生了這樣的變化？

- I think he would love it.

- 我想他會喜歡的。

We have had the conversation

我們已經談過了

though about going to law school, him and I.

雖然關於去法學院，他和我。

When I was in college and I was trying to think

當我在大學裡，我試圖思考

of what my major would be,

的我的專業會是什麼。

I thought, okay, I can major in political science

我想，好吧，我可以主修政治學。

and I can really do this and then he was like, listen,

我真的可以做到這一點，然後他很喜歡，聽，

you've seen the hard work that it puts in.

你已經看到了它所付出的努力。

I don't doubt that you can do this,

我不懷疑你能做到這一點。

but it's a really stressful life to be an attorney,

但做律師的生活壓力真的很大。

do you really wanna be an attorney

你真的想當律師嗎？

and then I ended up majoring in communications instead

然後我就改學通信專業了。

and so we talked about a lot.

所以我們談了很多。

Cause he always saw me snooping in his stuff

因為他總是看到我偷看他的東西。

and looking through all of his evidence books

翻看他所有的證據書

and in the summer times when all my friends

而在夏天的時候，當我所有的朋友

were hanging out and he was just like, go have fun.

被掛出和他只是喜歡， 去有樂趣。

You can always do this later and honestly,

你以後可以隨時老老實實地做這件事。

sometimes it is so tough and I have these assignments

有時它是如此艱難，我有這些任務

that I feel like I have to succeed in

我覺得我必須要成功

and I get really overwhelmed and I feel

我得到真正的壓倒性的，我覺得。

like quitting sometimes, but I know

有時想放棄，但我知道

that he's right there pushing me to just be like,

他就在那裡 推我只是喜歡，

you can do this, and so I always take a minute,

你可以這樣做，所以我總是花一分鐘。

I stop and I'm just like, okay, I'm gonna finish my work

我停下來，我只是想，好吧，我要去完成我的工作。

the next day, I need a breather.

第二天，我需要休息一下。

It's like too overwhelming for me and then I get up

我覺得太難受了，然後我就起來了。

super energized and get back at it

精力充沛，再接再厲

and I know that's him pushing me to do that.

我知道那是他逼我這麼做的。

- You know, it's amazing.

- 你知道，這是驚人的。

I think for the younger generation, you're the most famous

我想對年輕一代來說，你是最有名的。

Kardashian, they heard of you.

卡戴珊，他們聽說過你。

But my generation, it was your dad [laughs]

但我們這一代，是你爸爸[笑]。

that was the big guy.

那是大個子。

You're kinda like his kid coming up from our point of view

從我們的角度看，你就像他的孩子一樣。

and so, we know that you got that legal beagle in your blood

所以，我們知道你的血液裡有合法的小獵犬

because he was such an amazing attorney

因為他是一個了不起的律師

and such a big deal culturally as well as legally.

而且在文化上以及法律上都是這麼大的問題。

But what about your kids?

但你的孩子怎麼辦？

You just said you're a refugee right now

你剛才說你現在是個難民

in your mom's house from your kids.

在你媽媽家，從你的孩子。

You got little bitty kids.

你有個小不點的孩子。

What do they think about what you're doing?

他們對你做的事情有什麼看法？

How do you explain to them that mommy

你怎麼跟他們解釋，媽媽

is going into prisons to help people?

是進入監獄幫助人？

Does that even come up?

這還用說嗎？

- It does!

- 是的！

And so, she traveled with us to Houston

於是，她和我們一起去了休斯頓。

when I went to go visit Rodney Reed

當我去拜訪羅德尼-裡德時

and she was with me but she had to stay in the car

她和我在一起，但她必須呆在車裡。

while I went inside and I had to explain to her,

當我進去的時候，我不得不向她解釋。

we're at a prison and we're gonna be going in

我們在監獄，我們要去的地方。

and I'm going, and she was like, well mommy,

和我一起去，她很喜歡，好媽媽，

I know you're just going to help people.

我知道你只是想幫助別人。

Like, I know you're not going to jail.

就像，我知道你不會去坐牢。

So she really understands, I think cause she's around

所以，她真的明白，我想，因為她是在周圍

a lot when I'm studying with Jessica and Erin

當我和傑西卡和艾琳一起學習的時候，很多時候都是這樣的

and so she'll just hear all the conversation.

所以她會聽到所有的對話。

She'll hear me studying my flash cards.

她會聽到我研究我的閃存卡。

She'll hear me talk to myself and call things out

她會聽到我自言自語，把事情說出來。

and say definitions and stuff like that or she'll hear

並說定義和類似的東西，否則她會聽到。

me on calls when I'm dealing with different legal teams

當我和不同的法律團隊打交道時，我就會接到電話。

and stuff like that.

和類似的東西。

So she's really smart, she's really aware of what's going on

所以她真的很聰明，她真的知道發生了什麼事

and if anything, that pushes me more because I really

如果有的話，這推動了我更多的，因為我真的

was the type where I didn't love school.

是那種我不愛上學的類型。

I didn't love college,

我不愛大學。

and high school was so much fun but then college,

和高中是如此多的樂趣，但後來大學，

it just wasn't my thing, so to know that now

它只是沒有我的事，所以要知道，現在。

that I'm almost 40 and I love it and I love going to school.

我快40歲了，我喜歡它，我喜歡上學。

I love having that as a good example for my kids too

我也喜歡有這樣的好榜樣給我的孩子。

that no matter age, if you find something

無論年齡大小，如果你發現什麼

that you're passionate about, you can absolutely go for it

你熱衷的事情，你完全可以去做。

and it's a really personal goal of mine.

這是我的一個真正的個人目標。

- So one time you were talking about you got your backpack

- 所以，有一次你說到你有你的揹包

with your books and you kids have their backpack

和你的書，你的孩子有他們的揹包。

with their books [laughs] like doing the mommy and me

與他們的書[笑]喜歡做媽媽和我的

on the studying stuff,

在學習的東西。

which I think is really, really awesome.

我認為這是真的，真的很棒。

And I think it's just so important for people