Now it appears the situation is getting worse.

現在看來，情況越來越糟。

There's evidence that Beijing is forcing hundreds of thousands of Tibetans off their land and into so called vocational training centers that are set to resemble labor camps.

有證據表明，北京正在強迫數十萬藏人離開他們的土地，進入所謂的職業培訓中心，這些中心被設定為類似於勞動營。

Traditional farmers and herders are being turned into factory workers and other low paid labor and made to relocate to other parts of China.

傳統的農牧民正在變成工廠工人和其他低薪勞動力，並被迫遷移到中國其他地區。

Those are the findings of a report by a US based research institute findings.

這些都是美國一家研究機構調查結果的報告。

China's governor in Tibet denies what's with that town hall To sure there are no forced labor transfers.

中國駐西藏省長否認那座城樓是怎麼回事 要確定沒有強迫勞動轉移。

As the party secretary and I explained, just now, people have a strong desire to travel for work, and people have a strong desire to learn new skills.

就像我和黨委書記解釋的那樣，剛才，人們對工作出行的願望很強烈，人們對學習新技能的願望也很強烈。

The government has followed their wishes and needs.

政府遵循了他們的意願和需求。

You know we'll shoot you.

你知道我們會殺了你

But the information gathered by the Jamestown Foundation tells a different story.

但詹姆斯敦基金會收集到的資訊卻講述了一個不同的故事。

It says rural Tibetans are coerced into militarized training regiments in facilities like this one and subjected to quote thought, transformation, patriotic and legal education and Chinese language teaching it's aspect like these that are causing comparisons to Xinjiang province, where Beijing is accused of indoctrinating ethnic leaguers in so called reeducation camps.

它說，西藏農村的人被強迫進入像這樣的設施進行軍事化訓練，並接受思想、改造、愛國主義和法律教育以及漢語教學，正是這些方面引起了與新疆省的比較，在那裡，北京被指控在所謂的再教育營中灌輸少數民族團員。

There's no evidence that Tibetans are facing the same level of persecution as the week gers, but the international community is taking note.

沒有證據表明西藏人正面臨著與周格一樣的迫害，但國際社會正在注意到這一點。

On October 14th, Washington appointed a new coordinator for Tibetan issues on had a message for Beijing, one of the court challenges that we've identified from the Chinese Communist Party there ah, consistent violation of the most basic and fundamental human rights for their own people.

10月14日，華盛頓任命了一位新的西藏問題協調員，就曾給北京發過一條消息，我們已經確定的來自中共那裡的法庭挑戰之一啊，一貫侵犯自己人民最基本、最根本的人權。

Whether it's Xinjiang, what's taking place there, whether it's Tibet, talked about that a little bit here this morning will work hard to do everything we can to build out a coalition all across the world that comes to understand how important that is alongside of us and works to impose costs on the Chinese Communist Party when they act in ways that are inconsistent with those basic fundamental human freedoms.

無論是新疆，那裡正在發生的事情，無論是西藏，今天上午在這裡談了一點，我們將努力盡一切努力，在全世界建立一個聯盟，與我們一起理解這有多麼重要，並在中共的行為不符合人類基本自由時，努力向他們施加代價。

Beijing's answer.

北京的回答。

The U.

U.

S.

S.

Should mind its own business.

應該管好自己的事。

Three.

三號

Establishment off the so called special coordinator for Tibetan issues by the U.

聯合國設立所謂的西藏問題特別協調員。

S.

S.

Is totally out of political manipulation aiming to interfere in China's internal affairs and undermined the development and stability of Tibet.

是完全出於政治操縱的目的，旨在干涉中國內政，破壞西藏的發展和穩定。

China has always opposed this position and has never recognized it.

中國一直反對這一立場，從未承認這一立場。

Tibet's government has said that some 15% of the region's population have received vocational training in just seven months, and the program is ongoing.

西藏政府表示，在短短7個月內，該地區約有15%的人口接受了職業培訓，而且該計劃還在繼續。

Rights groups worry that with every person that's enrolled, Tibetan culture is being further eroded.

維權組織擔心，每招收一個人，藏族文化就會被進一步侵蝕。

Joining us is Kate Saunders, a specialist and writer on Tibet.

和我們一起的是凱特-桑德斯，一位關於西藏的專家和作家。

Kate, the report documenting this just came out.

凱特，記錄這一切的報告剛剛出來。

But I know you've monitored what's been happening in Tibet for years.

但我知道你多年來一直在關注西藏發生的事情。

What have been some of your own findings?

你自己有什麼發現？

Yes, this that this report gave Ah very important indication of the very rapid social economic transformations taking place in Tibet.

是的，這份報告給了阿非常重要的訓示，說明西藏正在發生非常迅速的社會經濟變革。

On what we've found is that this combination off intensified securitization and militarization.

我們發現，這種組合加強了證券化和軍事化。

Before Xin Jiang came to bet in which dystopian police state was set up, in which, emerging from China's economic and strategic objectives on Tibet on with the ultimate aim off, a zone official document put it, breaking connections, breaking, lineage, breaking roots on.

在新江來賭之前，在哪個荒誕的警察國家成立，其中，出現了中國在西藏上的經濟和戰略目標與最終目的關，一個區官方文件把它，斷聯，斷，系，斷根上。

What we found is that this goes beyond the superficial measures now, so Tibetan Buddhism and loyalty to the Dalai Lama runs very deep in Tibetan people.

我們發現的是，這已經超出了現在的表面措施，所以藏傳佛教和對達賴喇嘛的忠誠在藏族人中非常深入。

On DSO, the measures need to go very deep too.

在DSO上，措施也要非常深入。

So we've seen the party using a new language, a new focus on ideological control.

所以我們看到黨用了新的語言，新的重點是意識形態控制。

Andi focusing really on obliterating KADEK collective memory of what it is to be Tibetan, raising the Allah Lama's influence.

安迪的重點是真正抹去KADEK集體對藏族的記憶，提高阿拉喇嘛的影響力。

This this further emphasis on Sinus ization.

這這進一步強調竇娥化。

Andi.

安迪

Even while we may not understand fully what Sinus ization means, it's it's linked to the objective of creating compliant citizens in Tibet on with a focus on not only the empty recitation of party slogans, but really the emotional Byeon off Tibetans to an ideological remolding or rewiring, which is very dangerous, of course, right, you mentioned that it's a police state.

儘管我們可能並不完全理解Sinus ization的含義，但它與在西藏創造順從的公民的目標有關，重點不僅僅是空洞地背誦黨的口號，而是真正地將西藏人的情感拜安掉，進行意識形態的重塑或重新佈線，這當然是非常危險的，對吧，你提到這是一個警察國家。

I'm curious what is different this time.

我很好奇這次有什麼不同？

Do you think that there's going to be an expansion into bed of what has taken place in Xinjiang with the detention camps?

你覺得新疆發生的拘留營的事情會不會擴大到床上？

Is there a more systemic thing that they're going to try to import into Tibet this time?

這次他們要嘗試向西藏輸入更系統的東西嗎？

It's very different in that we haven't monitored the same mass internment that has been seen in Xinjiang on, but although there has beena large scale expansion of prisons and we've noticed the deeper institutionalization of this ideological agenda with the construction of new UM, party building facilities on Daz Incenses research, they seem to be centered on a military style training in many cases Onda also in taking Tibetans off their land.

這是非常不同的，我們還沒有監測到同樣的大規模拘留，已經看到在新疆上，但雖然有一直a大規模的監獄擴張，我們已經注意到這種意識形態議程的更深制度化與建設新的UM，黨建設施上達孜香研究，他們似乎是以軍事風格的訓練為中心，在許多情況下Onda也在把西藏人從他們的土地。

So this is linked to a drive that we've seen since 1999 2000.

所以，這與1999年2000年以來我們看到的驅動力有關。

Under the so called Western Development Campaign, in which tens of thousands, possibly millions off Tibetan nomads and herders have lost their traditional lively hoods.

在所謂的西部大開發運動下，數以萬計，可能是數以百萬計的西藏遊牧民失去了他們傳統的活潑頭巾。

Andi, there's Bean Ah, whole program of mass urbanization on.

安迪，有豆啊，整個大規模城市化的方案在。

This is one of the elements that is most important in the latest research because Tibetans are being removed from their land linked to these massive social engineering policies that we've seen over the years, right?

這是最新研究中最重要的一個內容，因為藏民被從他們的土地上移走，跟我們這些年看到的這些大規模的社會工程政策有關，對吧？

That appears to be China's endgame.

這似乎是中國的終極目標。

Kate Saunders.

凱特-桑德斯

Thank you.

謝謝你了