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  • Fourteen years ago,

    十四年前。

  • I stood in the Supreme Court to argue my first case.

    我站在最高法院為我的第一個案子辯護。

  • And it wasn't just any case,

    而且這不是普通的案子。

  • it was a case that experts called

    這是一個被專家稱為

  • one of the most important cases the Supreme Court had ever heard.

    最高法院審理過的最重要的案件之一。

  • It considered whether Guantanamo was constitutional,

    它審議了關塔那摩是否符合憲法。

  • and whether the Geneva Conventions applied to the war on terror.

    以及《日內瓦公約》是否適用於反恐戰爭;

  • It was just a handful of years after the horrific attacks

    那是在恐怖襲擊事件發生後的短短几年後

  • of September 11.

    9月11日。

  • The Supreme Court had seven Republican appointees

    最高法院有7名共和黨任命的法官。

  • and two Democratic ones,

    和兩個民主黨的。

  • and my client happened to be Osama bin Laden's driver.

    而我的客戶恰好是奧薩馬-本-拉登的司機。

  • My opponent was the Solicitor General of the United States,

    我的對手是美國的副檢察長。

  • America's top courtroom lawyer.

    美國頂級的法庭律師。

  • He had argued 35 cases.

    他曾為35個案件辯護。

  • I wasn't even 35 years old.

    我當時還不到35歲。

  • And to make matters worse,

    更糟糕的是

  • the Senate, for the first time since the Civil War,

    參議院,這是南北戰爭以來第一次。

  • passed a bill to try and remove the case from the docket of the Supreme Court.

    通過了一項法案,試圖將此案從最高法院的備查表中刪除。

  • Now the speaking coaches say

    現在演講教練說

  • I'm supposed to build tension and not tell you what happens.

    我應該製造緊張氣氛,而不是告訴你發生了什麼。

  • But the thing is, we won.

    但問題是,我們贏了。

  • How?

    怎麼說?

  • Today, I'm going to talk about how to win an argument,

    今天,我就來談談如何贏得一場爭論。

  • at the Supreme Court or anywhere.

    在最高法院或任何地方。

  • The conventional wisdom is that you speak with confidence.

    傳統的智慧是,你說話要有信心。

  • That's how you persuade.

    這就是你說服的方式。

  • I think that's wrong.

    我認為這是不對的。

  • I think confidence is the enemy of persuasion.

    我認為信心是說服力的敵人。

  • Persuasion is about empathy,

    勸說是為了感同身受。

  • about getting into people's heads.

    關於進入人們的頭腦。

  • That's what makes TED what it is.

    這就是TED的魅力所在。

  • It's why you're listening to this talk.

    這就是為什麼你要聽這個講座。

  • You could have read it on the cold page,

    你可以在冷頁上讀到它。

  • but you didn't.

    但你沒有。

  • Same thing with Supreme Court arguments --

    最高法院的辯論也是如此 -- --

  • we write written briefs with cold pages,

    我們寫的書面簡報都是冷頁。

  • but we also have an oral argument.

    但我們也有一個口頭辯論。

  • We don't just have a system in which the justices write questions

    我們不只是有一個系統 在法官寫問題。

  • and you write answers.

    你就寫答案。

  • Why?

    為什麼?

  • Because argument is about interaction.

    因為爭論是為了互動。

  • I want to take you behind the scenes to tell you what I did,

    我想帶你到幕後,告訴你我做了什麼。

  • and how these lessons are generalizable.

    以及這些經驗如何可以推廣。

  • Not just for winning an argument in court,

    不僅僅是因為在法庭上贏得了辯論。

  • but for something far more profound.

    但為了更深刻的東西。

  • Now obviously, it's going to involve practice,

    現在很明顯,這要涉及到實踐。

  • but not just any practice will do.

    但不是隨便練練就可以的。

  • My first practice session for Guantanamo,

    我為關塔那摩的第一次練習課。

  • I flew up to Harvard

    我飛到了哈佛

  • and had all these legendary professors throwing questions at me.

    並讓這些傳說中的教授向我拋出問題。

  • And even though I had read everything, rehearsed a million times,

    儘管我已經讀過所有的書,排練過無數次。

  • I wasn't persuading anyone.

    我不是在說服任何人。

  • My arguments weren't resonating.

    我的論點沒有引起共鳴。

  • I was desperate.

    我已經絕望了。

  • I had done everything possible,

    我已經做了一切可能的事情。

  • read every book, rehearsed a million times,

    每本書都讀過,排練過無數次。

  • and it wasn't going anywhere.

    而且它不會去任何地方。

  • So ultimately, I stumbled on this guy --

    所以最終,我偶然發現了這個傢伙 --

  • he was an acting coach, he wasn't even a lawyer.

    他是一個表演教練, 他甚至不是一個律師。

  • He'd never set foot in the Supreme Court.

    他從來沒有踏入過最高法院。

  • And he came into my office one day wearing a billowy white shirt

    有一天他來到我的辦公室 穿著一件飄逸的白襯衫。

  • and a bolo tie,

    還有一條領帶

  • and he looked at me with my folded arms and said,

    他看著我雙手合十的樣子說。

  • "Look, Neal, I can tell

    "你看,尼爾,我可以告訴

  • that you don't think this is going to work,

    你不認為這是要去工作。

  • but just humor me.

    但只是幽默我。

  • Tell me your argument."

    告訴我你的論點。"

  • So I grabbed my legal pad,

    於是我拿起了法律筆記本。

  • and I started reading my argument.

    我就開始讀我的論點。

  • He said, "What are you doing?"

    他說:"你在做什麼?"

  • I said, "I'm telling you my argument."

    我說:"我告訴你我的論點。"

  • He said, "Your argument is a legal pad?"

    他說:"你的論點是法律墊子?"

  • I said, "No, but my argument is on a legal pad."

    我說:"不,但我的論據在法律墊上。"

  • He said, "Neal, look at me.

    他說:"尼爾,看著我。

  • Tell me your argument."

    告訴我你的論點。"

  • And so I did.

    我就這樣做了。

  • And instantly, I realized,

    瞬間,我就意識到了。

  • my points were resonating.

    我的觀點是共鳴。

  • I was connecting to another human being.

    我在和另一個人聯繫。

  • And he could see the smile starting to form

    而且他可以看到笑容開始形成

  • as I was saying my words,

    當我在說我的話時。

  • and he said, "OK, Neal.

    他說:"好吧,尼爾。

  • Now do your argument holding my hand."

    現在握著我的手做你的論證。"

  • And I said, "What?"

    我說,"什麼?"

  • And he said, "Yeah, hold my hand."

    他說,"是啊,握住我的手。"

  • I was desperate, so I did it.

    我很絕望,所以我做了。

  • And I realized, "Wow, that's connection.

    我意識到,"哇,這就是連接。

  • That's the power of how to persuade."

    這就是如何說服人的力量。"

  • And it helped.

    而且有幫助。

  • But truthfully, I still got nervous as the argument date approached.

    但說實話,隨著爭論日期的臨近,我還是很緊張。

  • And I knew that even though argument

    我知道,即使爭論

  • was about getting into someone else's shoes

    是關於進入別人的鞋子

  • and empathizing,

    和感同身受。

  • I needed to have a solid core first.

    我需要先有一個堅實的核心。

  • So I did something outside of my comfort zone.

    所以我做了一些超出我舒適區的事情。

  • I wore jewelry -- not just anything,

    我戴著珠寶--不是隨便什麼都戴。

  • but a bracelet that my father had worn his whole life,

    但這是我父親戴了一輩子的手鐲。

  • until he passed away, just a few months before the argument.

    直到他去世,就在爭論前幾個月。

  • I put on a tie

    我打了一條領帶

  • that my mom had given me just for the occasion.

    我媽媽給我的 只是為了這個場合。

  • And I took out my legal pad and wrote my children's names on it,

    我就拿出法律墊,在上面寫上孩子們的名字。

  • because that's why I was doing this.

    因為這就是為什麼我在做這個。

  • For them, to leave the country better than I had found it.

    對他們來說,離開這個國家比我發現的更好。

  • I got to court, and I was calm.

    我到了法庭,我很平靜。

  • The bracelet, the tie, the children's names

    手鐲,領帶,孩子們的名字。

  • had all centered me.

    已經全部以我為中心。

  • Like a rock climber extending beyond the precipice,

    像攀巖者延伸到懸崖之外。

  • if you have a solid hold, you can reach out.

    如果你有一個堅實的支撐,你可以伸出。

  • And because argument is about persuasion,

    而且因為爭論是為了說服人。

  • I knew I had to avoid emotion.

    我知道我必須避免感情用事。

  • Displays of emotion fail.

    情感的展示是失敗的。

  • It's kind of like writing an email in all bold and all caps.

    這有點像寫一封郵件,用的都是粗體字,大寫的。

  • It persuades no one.

    它沒有說服任何人。

  • It's then about you, the speaker,

    然後是關於你,演講者。

  • not about the listener or the receiver.

    不是關於聽眾或接收者。

  • Now look, in some settings, the solution is to be emotional.

    現在看,在某些場合,解決的辦法是感情用事。

  • You're arguing with your parents,

    你在和你的父母爭論。

  • and you use emotion and it works.

    而你用情感,它的工作。

  • Why?

    為什麼?

  • Because your parents love you.

    因為你的父母愛你。

  • But Supreme Court justices don't love you.

    但最高法院的法官們並不愛你。

  • They don't like to think of themselves

    他們不喜歡自以為是

  • as the type of people persuaded by emotion.

    作為被情感說服的那類人。

  • And I reverse engineered that insight too,

    而我也逆向設計了這種見解。

  • setting a trap for my opponent to provoke his emotional reaction,

    為我的對手設下陷阱,挑起他的情緒反應。

  • so I could be seen as the calm and steady voice of the law.

    所以我可以被看作是法律的冷靜和穩定的聲音。

  • And it worked.

    而且它的工作。

  • And I remember sitting in the courtroom to learn that we had won.

    我還記得坐在法庭上得知我們贏了。

  • That the Guantanamo tribunals were coming down.

    關塔那摩法庭要倒了。

  • And I went out onto the courthouse steps and there was a media firestorm.

    我走到了法院的臺階上,媒體一片譁然。

  • Five hundred cameras, and they're all asking me,

    五百臺攝影機,他們都在問我。

  • "What does the decision mean, what does it say?"

    "這個決定是什麼意思,說明了什麼?"

  • Well, the decision was 185 pages long.

    判決書長達185頁。

  • I hadn't had time to read it, nobody had.

    我還沒來得及看,沒人看。

  • But I knew what it meant.

    但我知道這意味著什麼。

  • And here's what I said on the steps of the Court.

    這是我在法院的臺階上說的話。

  • "Here's what happened today.

    "今天發生的事情是這樣的。

  • You have the lowest of the low --

    你有最低級的...

  • this guy, who was accused of being bin Laden's driver,

    這個傢伙,誰被指控是本拉登的司機。

  • one of the most horrible men around.

    最可怕的男人之一。

  • And he sued not just anyone,

    而且他起訴的不是任何人。

  • but the nation, indeed, the world's most powerful man,

    但國家,確實是世界上最強大的人。

  • the president of the United States.

    美國總統。

  • And he brings it not in some rinky-dink traffic court,

    而且他不是在什麼破爛的交通法庭上提出來的。

  • but in the highest court of the land,

    但在國家的最高法庭上。

  • the Supreme Court of the United States ...

    美國最高法院.。

  • And he wins.

    而他贏了。

  • That's something remarkable about this country.

    這就是這個國家的非凡之處。

  • In many other countries,

    在許多其他國家。

  • this driver would have been shot,

    這個司機會被槍殺。

  • just for bringing his case.

    只是因為把他的案件。

  • And more of the point for me, his lawyer would have been shot.

    而對我來說,更重要的是,他的律師會被槍殺。

  • But that's what makes America different.

    但這就是美國的不同之處。

  • What makes America special."

    是什麼讓美國變得特別。"

  • Because of that decision,

    因為這個決定。

  • the Geneva conventions apply to the war on terror,

    《日內瓦公約》適用於反恐戰爭;

  • which meant the end of ghost prisons worldwide,

    這意味著全世界鬼獄的終結。

  • the end of waterboarding worldwide

    全球水刑的結束

  • and an end to those Guantanamo military tribunals.

    並結束那些關塔那摩軍事法庭。

  • By methodically building the case,

    通過有條不紊的建案。

  • and getting into the justices' heads,

    並進入大法官們的頭腦。

  • we were able to quite literally change the world.

    我們能夠相當字面上改變世界。

  • Sounds easy, right?

    聽起來很簡單,對吧?

  • You can practice a lot,

    你可以多多練習。

  • avoid displays of emotion,

    避免情緒的表現。

  • and you, too, can win any argument.

    而你,也可以贏得任何爭論。

  • I'm sorry to say, it's not that simple,

    很抱歉,事情沒那麼簡單。

  • my strategies aren't foolproof,

    我的策略不是萬能的

  • and while I've won more Supreme Court cases

    雖然我贏得了更多的最高法院案件

  • than most anyone,

    比大多數人都要好。

  • I've also lost a lot too.

    我也失去了很多。

  • Indeed, after Donald Trump was elected,

    事實上,唐納德-特朗普當選後。

  • I was, constitutionally speaking, terrified.

    從憲法上講,我被嚇壞了。

  • Please understand, this is not about Left versus Right,

    請理解,這不是左與右的問題。

  • or anything like that.

    或類似的東西。

  • I'm not here to talk about that.

    我不是來談這個的。

  • But just a week in to the new president's term,

    但就在新總統上任一週後。

  • you might remember those scenes at the airports.

    你可能還記得在機場的那些場景。

  • President Trump had campaigned on a pledge, saying, quote,

    特朗普總統曾在競選時承諾,說,引。

  • "I, Donald J. Trump am calling for a complete and total shutdown

    "我,唐納德-J-特朗普呼籲全面徹底關閉

  • of all Muslim immigration to the United States."

    穆斯林移民佔美國所有穆斯林移民的比例"。

  • And he also said, quote, "I think Islam hates us."

    他還說:"我認為伊斯蘭教討厭我們。"

  • And he made good on that promise,

    而他也兌現了這個承諾。

  • banning immigration from seven countries with overwhelmingly Muslim populations.

    禁止來自穆斯林人口占絕大多數的七個國家的移民;

  • My legal team and others went into court right away and sued,

    我的律師團隊和其他人馬上去法院起訴。

  • and got that first travel ban struck down.

    並讓第一個旅行禁令被駁回。

  • Trump revised it.

    特朗普修改了它。

  • We went into court again and got that struck down.

    我們又上了法庭,把這句話駁回了。

  • He revised it again,

    他又修改了一遍。

  • and changed it, adding North Korea,

    並將其更改,增加了北韓。

  • because we all know,

    因為我們都知道。

  • the United States had a tremendous immigration problem with North Korea.

    美國與北朝鮮有巨大的移民問題。

  • But it did enable his lawyers to go to the Supreme Court and say,

    但這確實使他的律師能夠到最高法院說。

  • "See, this isn't discriminating against Muslims,

    "看,這不是歧視穆斯林。

  • it includes these other people too."

    它也包括這些其他的人。"

  • Now I thought we had the killer answer to that.

    現在我想我們已經有了殺手鐗。

  • I won't bore you with the details,

    我不會用細節來煩你。

  • but the thing is, we lost.

    但問題是,我們輸了。

  • Five votes to four.

    五票對四票。

  • And I was devastated.

    而我也是一蹶不振。

  • I was worried my powers of persuasion had waned.

    我擔心我的說服力減弱了。

  • And then, two things happened.

    然後,發生了兩件事。

  • The first was,

    第一個是:

  • I noticed a part of the Supreme Court's travel ban opinion

    我注意到最高法院旅行禁令的部分意見

  • that discussed the Japanese American interment.

    討論日裔美國人安葬問題的。

  • That was a horrific moment in our history,

    那是我們歷史上一個可怕的時刻。

  • in which over 100,000 Japanese Americans had been interned in camps.

    其中有超過10萬名日裔美國人被關押在集中營裡。

  • My favorite person to challenge this scheme

    我最喜歡挑戰這個計劃的人

  • was Gordon Hirabayashi,

    是平林高登。

  • a University of Washington student.

    是華盛頓大學的學生。

  • He turned himself in to the FBI,

    他向聯邦調查局自首了

  • who said, "Look, you're a first-time offender,

    誰說,"你看,你是初犯,。

  • you can go home."

    你可以回家了。"

  • And Gordon said,

    而戈登說。

  • "No, I'm a Quaker, I have to resist unjust laws,"

    "不,我是貴格會的人,我必須抵制不公正的法律"。

  • and so they arrested him and he was convicted.

    所以他們逮捕了他,他被定罪。

  • Gordon's case made it to the Supreme Court.

    戈登的案子上了最高法院。

  • And again, I'm going to do that thing

    再一次,我要去做那件事

  • where I quash any sense of anticipation you have,

    在那裡我熄滅了你的任何期待感。

  • and tell you what happened.

    並告訴你發生了什麼。

  • Gordon lost.

    戈登輸了。

  • But he lost because of a simple reason.

    但他輸的原因很簡單。

  • Because the Solicitor General,

    因為副檢察長。

  • that top courtroom lawyer for the government,

    那位政府的頂級法庭律師

  • told the Supreme Court

    告訴最高法院

  • that the Japanese American internment was justified by military necessity.

    拘留日裔美國人是出於軍事上的需要。

  • And that was so,

    而這是如此。

  • even though his own staff had discovered

    儘管他自己的員工已經發現

  • that there was no need for the Japanese American interment

    認為沒有必要收容日裔美國人。

  • and that the FBI and the intelligence community

    以及聯邦調查局和情報界

  • all believed that.

    都相信這一點。

  • And indeed, that it was motivated by racial prejudice.

    事實上,它是出於種族偏見。

  • His staff begged the Solicitor General,

    他的工作人員向副檢察長求情。

  • "Tell the truth, don't suppress evidence."

    "說實話,不要壓制證據。"

  • What did the Solicitor General do?

    副檢察長做了什麼?

  • Nothing.

    什麼都沒有。

  • He went in and told the "military necessity" story.

    他進去講了 "軍需 "的故事。

  • And so the Court upheld Gordon Hirabayashi's conviction.

    於是,法院維持了對平林公子的定罪。

  • And the next year, upheld Fred Korematsu's interment.

    並於次年,維持弗雷德-科雷松的安葬。

  • Now why was I thinking about that?

    現在我為什麼要想這些?

  • Because nearly 70 years later,

    因為近70年後。

  • I got to hold the same office,

    我也要擔任同樣的職務。

  • Head of the Solicitor General's Office.

    總檢察長辦公室主任。

  • And I got to set the record straight,

    我得把話說清楚

  • explaining that the government had misrepresented the facts

    解釋政府歪曲了事實。

  • in the Japanese interment cases.

    在日本人的安葬案中,。

  • And when I thought about the Supreme Court's travel ban opinion,

    而當我想到最高法院的旅行禁令意見。

  • I realized something.

    我意識到了一些事情。

  • The Supreme Court, in that opinion,

    最高法院在該意見中,。