English. I'm Neil.

And I'm Rob.

From the bubonic plague to cholera and

tuberculosis,

disease and pandemics have changed the way

cities have been built. For example, buildings

in 19th century Paris were designed with large,

high-up windows to allow plenty of sunlight.

They were supposed to stop the spread of

tuberculosis.

Coronavirus has been no different. In

lockdown, cities from Rio to Barcelona

were transformed as wildlife and

birdsong replaced the noise

of taxi horns and traffic. And with no car

pollution you could even see the stars at

night!

In this programme we'll be asking if cities

after lockdown will ever be the same again

– and if we want them to be.

We'll be hearing some ideas from different

cities around the world.

And of course we'll be learning some new

vocabulary along the way. One of the cities

most affected by Covid-19 was Mumbai in India

– but approximately how many people

were affected? What's the estimated

population of Mumbai? That's my quiz

question for you today Rob. Is it:

a) 15 million people?

b) 20 million people? Or,

c) 25 million people?

I know Mumbai is an international mega-city

so I'll say b) 20 million people.

OK, Rob, we'll find out later if that's

right. Now, Beatriz Colomina is a

professor of architecture at Princeton

University in

the United States. She's spent years

researching the relationship between

cities and disease.

Here she is talking with Kavita Puri,

presenter of BBC World Service

programme, The Inquiry:

Take tuberculosis. Unlike cholera, which was

eliminated in London by re-designing the sewage

system in the 1850s, TB was airborne.

It became a real problem with the rise of

the industrial cities, the metropolis, before

an antibiotic was effective.

One in seven people on the planet had TB,

but in dense cities like Paris, it was one

in three. Closely packed tenements meant the

disease spread like wildfire and architects

and planning experts responded.

Some diseases, like cholera, could be

prevented

by redesigning cities to improve hygiene,

like the waste water sewers in 19th century

London. But the problem with tuberculosis,

or TB for short, was that the disease is airborne

– carried and spread in the air.

Adding to the problem was the fact that

antibiotics – medicines like penicillin that

can destroy harmful bacteria or stop their

growth – was not discovered until 1928 –

too late to save the thousands of people

who died in Mumbai,

New York, Paris and other cities during the

1800s.

Diseases like TB killed more and more people

as cities industrialised and grew bigger and

bigger, leading to the creation of the

metropolis – the largest, busiest and

most important city in a country or region.

Many people crowded together in large

metropolises

meaning that disease could spread like

wildfire – an idiom meaning spread

quickly around many people.

Even today disease is shaping our cities.

In post-Covid Paris, new ideas for a '15

minute city' aim to make all public

services available within a fifteen minute

walk to help people working from home.

Other countries want to build better, more

affordable housing outside the city centre.

But according to Mumbai resident

Dr Vaidehi Tandel this won't work – even

if the housing on offer is better. But why?

The reason is work.

When you shift them out, you're moving them

away from their livelihoods and they're

not going to be able to sustain themselves

there so they will be coming back

because their jobs are in the city and they

cannot afford the commute from further

off places.

Dr Vaidehi Tandel there, talking on the BBC

World Service programme The Inquiry.

Trying to make cities less crowded is one

way to minimise the risks from disease.

But moving people away from the city

centre means moving them away from

their livelihood – their job or other way of

earning money to pay for

food, housing and clothing.

Many people still want to live near their

workplace in the city centre because they

can't afford to pay for the commute – the

journey between their home and their

place of work.

Which is real problem when you live in a

city of… how many people did you say live

in Mumbai, Neil?

Ah yes, in our quiz question I asked you what

the estimated population of Mumbai is.

I said b) 20 million.

And you were absolutely right! Around 20 million

people live in the Mumbai metropolis, making

it very difficult to socially distance.

In this programme we've been discussing

the relationship between cities and disease.

In the 1800s, tuberculous, or TB, killed thousands

because it was an airborne disease – spread

in the air, and hard to prevent.

Antibiotics – medicinal chemicals like

penicillin which can destroy harmful

germs, couldn't help because they weren't

discovered until decades later.

So in metropolises – the largest and most

important cities, where people live crowded

close together, diseases spread like wildfire

– an idiom meaning spread widely and quickly.

In Mumbai and other places, the problem remains

that many people need the city for their livelihood

– job or other way of earning money.

So they prefer to live in the city centre

instead of paying for the daily commute – a

journey, often by train, bus or car, from

your home to your workplace.

That's all we have time for in this programme, but remember

you can find more useful vocabulary, trending

topics and help with your language learning

here at BBC Learning English. Bye for now!

Bye!