My pleasure, Davis, is this is really cool.

I got to tell you, it's an honor to be part on the inaugural kick off this this aspect of master class?

Yeah.

It's so it's a new for those of you who aren't aware.

Master class live as a new asset that we are going to be creating.

That provides a way for our users to interact with our instructors in alive setting, Um, and also give them new ways to engage with our content beyond our live streaming videos or downloadable workbooks.

And are many maps.

Um, so Chris Voss is the former chief hostage and kidnapping negotiator for the FBI.

He also taught negotiation at Georgetown and USC business schools and launched his very own master class on negotiation at the end of last year.

I m.

Davis Carter.

I am a senior creative producer here at master class, and I also had the privilege of overseeing the creation of Chris's class.

Um, and like I said, Chris, thank you so much for being here.

Yeah, my pleasure.

This is gonna be fun.

I'm looking forward to it.

Well, you know, we're gonna sing a couple songs, crack a couple of jokes, will have a good time, right?

Exactly.

What have you got your beer there That we talked about having thoughts after five someplace.

Right?

Exactly.

Right.

Exactly.

Right.

Um, so, you know, we think this is a great opportunity to provide people with some inspiration and a positive distraction in these challenging times.

Um, And on that note, one of the things that I thought was really interesting is that, um we recently learned that your lesson on tactical empathy is actually currently the most watched chapter on the platform on.

I thought that was kind of interesting window into the times that we're we're living in right now.

Yeah, you know that It is interesting.

Appreciate you sharing it with me, too.

And, you know, tactical empathy for those of you, if you haven't had chance, toe, uh, watch the core shit.

O r.

Read the book.

You know, it's probably really hard to tell what the title of my book is.

Um, you know, it's Are you insane?

What the other side's perspective is, that's empathy.

It's easier said than done, you know, because what you disagree Well, you should really be able to say, you know what?

If they're wrong, you should still be able to say that perspective and the practical aspect that we added to it.

Why we use that term is when empathy was first sort of came back into common language.

And it spent 30 40 years.

Really, we didn't have neuroscience to back up how the brain works, and we got it now.

So if we know how the brain works, why not tactically take advantage of that?

It's Ah, it's good for people.

It works.

Those are the two reasons why you should engage in a negotiation Skill number one If it works the number two, If it's good for people that that passed, we'll sniff test.

So I'm happy to hear that people are engaging that for better communication.

Yeah, Yeah, and, um, in kind of like speaking of the world that we're in right now, um, it's I kind of wanted to start this conversation by taking a look at the situation that everybody is dealing with, um, and how that might impact the way they were engaging with other people, but also the way that we're negotiating with people.

Um, I guess like my first question for you would be Does this change the way that we should be negotiating?

Well, not I don't know that it changes the way we should be and probably changes the way we are.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, there's some real bad habits out there.

You know, one of those bad habits is you got to get your point across and people focus on that First, um, here the other side out first.

Well, you should be negotiating.

Is it?

You actually go slow to go fast.

Um, hear the other side out.

First, you'll get the chance to make your point quicker, where they're able to listen.

You know, this is sort of an adaptation of advice from way back when of Stephen Covey.

You said seek first to understand, Then be understood.

Well, well, this is seek first to demonstrate understanding in order to be understood.

So, yeah, we should be doing it.

Are we doing it now?

It's mostly on argumentative society these days, you know, um, battling counterpoints with nobody, but nobody listens, huh?

And it's almost like I find myself thinking like the stakes feel really high right now, Like everybody is kind of on alert.

And so it seems like, you know, they're They're I guess they're more tightly wound.

Um, and it's even more powerful now than it could have been four weeks ago or three months ago.

Um, and more important, Yeah, well, we're in the middle of a shift.

I mean, this is this hardship is going to create great things on the other side.

Um, for example, I was talking to some of the other day, you know, the younger generations quote the millennials twenties thirties or much more comfortable with technology that always someone sold us for older folks in that, you know, technology is here to enhance everybody's lives.

All generations of being forced by avenue stay at home to adapted technology.

And with that, let's make our communication more effective.

Let's hear each other out.

You know, let's use negotiation really is a means for drawing closer together for establishing better relationship.

So, you know, I think this this shift that we're in the middle of as painful as it is and the cost is going to be high in the interim, we come out on the other side, We're gonna be in a better place.

Well, that's encouraging.

Um, and I'm I'm curious.

When we were talking last week, you mentioned that some of your clients of the Black Swan Group have been coming to you and saying and looking for advice for how they should be approaching their negotiations in the world we find ourselves in.

And if you're open to sharing, and I'd be really interested?

No.

Like, what kind of problems they're coming to you with and what your advice has been to them.

Yeah, well, people are people looking to pull out of deals.

They're scared, you know?

What does this look like going forward?

You know, the uncertainty is, is is ridiculously, it's even traumatic, you know, not knowing when something is gonna be over how far this is gonna go.

Those are some of the highest stressors that there are.

So, you know, I'm telling people would chunk it out a little bit, you know, First of all, articulate the other side's fears, you know, and I you know, I'm gonna will use adult language here, you know?

Not bad, but a little bit.

You know, I got a client called us up and said, You know, this is a shit show and I said, All right, so that's the way to describe because it cuts to the heart of the matter.

It's what everybody's feeling.

So when you talk to the people, they're scared to death and feel like they're in the middle of Ah, you know, manure show t come and kind a little bit more.

Say that exactly.

Say, you know, this is This is a shit show.

You scared the death.

You don't know when this is gonna be over.

There's nothing that works faster and more effectively to driving a stake through the heart of somebody's fear other than just recognizing it.

It's it seems counterintuitive, but it's enormously effective and and that's little coaching people to do, you know, help him clear their heads by facing this head on and unflinching and fearless fashion.

That's really interesting.

And I was, as I was preparing myself for this, I was kind of always trying to think about what you're you're answers might be, And I was like, I actually don't know what people will be coming to him with, but that makes a ton of sense that the accusations audit, which is one of the tactics that you you talk about a really important one right now.

It za robust application of the accusations audit.

And again, when we talked about in the courses, what are the fears that the other side has about the situation?

One of the fears were the accusations they might make at you about you towards you and just articulate them, you know, doing audit, make an inventory, list him out and start your conversation that way.

And it's ridiculously effective on how fast it accelerates.

Communication is actually really effective.

Get you to where you want to be really quickly.

That's really interesting.

Thank you for that.

I appreciate I wasn't sure I was gonna be ableto get you to talk about the Black Swan consulting that you're doing cause I know it's tends to be with people that are very high profile.

So thank you very much for that.

You know, everybody could use it.

I mean, we we try.

It's one of the brain things about master class.

I mean, what we've blown been blown away with by being, you know, me and my team, it's always you know, you wanna go fast, go long.

You want to go?

Fargo is a tape, you know, master classes.

Such an accessible, ridiculous value.

The amount of instruction you guys put out there for the subscription price and high quality of it.

I mean, I love doing the shoot with you guys.

You guys made me feel like a movie star.

Never got treated that that well before.

It was a lot of fun.

Production values it through the roots and say, Well, thank you.

Yeah.

And we were sure to have you two playing whenever we broke for take three pets just to keep the energy high.

You guys know I'm a big fan of you two.

We did our research.

That's this bed star job.

Um, So I have another question that has to do with the current state of affairs, and we aren't gonna spend this entire conversation talking about it just cause, you know, it will pass, as you've said, but it is top of mind for a lot of people.

But while we are on that topic, I'd be curious to know what you how you might approach negotiating with somebody.

Um, who for example, is having a hard time convincing a loved one that they need to heed warnings to shelter in place, for example.

But how about you approach that?

Yeah, well, I mean, what's driving?

People do not want to stay sheltered in place.

I mean, we have, ah, fairly current term formal fear of missing out.

That's not a new idea.

You know, Fear of loss, fear of missing out has been driving human behavior since we've been organized.

No, Daniel Kahneman.

When the Nobel Prize in 2002 for Prospect Theory, which is basically built around fear of lost things twice a cz much is an equivalent game.

So how do you deal with it?

People who want to stay in because they're afraid they're missing out.

So we ask questions, What?

Know how questions not to get answers.

You know, we call him calibrated questions.

Principally, Wouldn't how questions we ask him to trigger thought to trigger deep thinking that again, the Daniel Kahneman we refer to.

So you know you ask somebody.

How long do you want to be laid up sick when you get sick?

How long do you want to be laid up?

What's it gonna cost you to get this?

Let's say that you're even in an age group that's calculated to survive.

You're just gonna get sick.

You're gonna get over it.

Almond.

How many of those symptoms you want inflict on yourself?

Have you read people talking about losing their sense of taste and sense of smell for periods of time?

How long you want to go without your sense of taste?

Lose questions is not to get an answer out of somebody.

It's ask him and don't ask it an accusatory fashion.

I probably even said it a little accusatory.

Just now.

It would be more like how how long you do you want to be sick.

You know that's deferential.

That's curious.

How long are you willing to be sick?

How much risk do you want to take in spreading it to?

You'll survive.

But how?

How much you want to risk your loved ones, you know, ask questions to get people to think about what they're doing.

And that's a design of those questions.

What an hour question.

Yeah, that makes makes a lot of sense.

And that was one of the things that I found.

I mean all the things that I found they were so enlightening about your tactics.

Um was when I imagine myself on the receiving end it I was like, Oh, you're right.

I would think entirely differently about that thing If somebody said like, you're crazy.

What are you doing?

Going outside like, Why are you putting people in, like, endanger?

You know, they stopped doing that thing like that just is the natural human condition.

You're gonna be 100.

Guard up and you're gonna be resistant to that.

Um, yeah.

You know, if I could interrupt you real quick because you touched on, um, in the inadvertent mistake that people make a lot when you use in your example asking someone, Why are you doing that?

Why always makes people feel accused.

It makes him feel defensive.

Eso you stop asking people why, Yeah, change my eyes to what?

Instead of like, Why are you doing that?

Even if you don't like it, you're going to say, you know what's causing you to do that?