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  • JUDY WOODRUFF: After months of protests in Hong Kong, yesterday brought an extraordinary

  • rebuke of Chinese authority by Hong Kong's voters in local elections, and another startling

  • revelation about Chinese government persecution of Uyghur Muslims.

  • Amna Nawaz takes a look at both stories.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Newly elected pro-democracy legislators walking today through debris from last week's

  • fiery clashes at Hong Kong's Polytechnic University.

  • Sunday's landslide election made clear the grassroots protesters have the overwhelming

  • support of Hong Kong voters.

  • Pro-democracy forces won control of 17 of 18 district councils in the first election

  • since the unrest began six months ago.

  • LEE WING-TAT, Democratic Party Legislator: It is a genuine referendum of the people in

  • Hong Kong.

  • The candidates from the Democratic government allies won this election.

  • Democratic Party hope our chief executive, Mrs. Carrie Lam, receives the message, because

  • the votes make a clear voice of the Hong Kong people.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: The increasingly-unpopular Lam is backed by Beijing.

  • She said in a statement that the government will -- quote -- "seriously reflect on the

  • results."

  • The district councils have little power, but Hong Kongers calling for democracy say the

  • outcome is a turning point.

  • KELVIN WONG, Student (through translator): I am happy about the election result.

  • A victory in the district council election is the first step for Hong Kong democracy.

  • I am still reasonably optimistic about Hong Kong's future.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: But, in Beijing, China's communist government insisted today that its one country/two

  • systems policy remains firm.

  • GENG SHUANG, Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesperson (through translator): Stopping the violence

  • and restoring order is the paramount task for Hong Kong at the moment.

  • Hong Kong is China's Hong Kong.

  • Hong Kong's affair is purely China's domestic affair.

  • The Chinese government's resolution of protecting China's sovereignty, security, development

  • and interests is firm.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Hong Kong activists say the election, with record voter turnout exceeding 70 percent,

  • was a resounding rejection of that policy.

  • JOSHUA WONG, Pro-Democracy Activist: People orderly and peacefully lining up outside the

  • voting station early in the morning just because they hope to get the vote, which represented

  • we deserve democracy.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, in Washington, the bipartisan Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy

  • Act awaits action on President Trump's desk, after easily passing both the House and Senate.

  • The bill would impose sanctions on Hong Kong officials who abuse human rights.

  • But the president has suggested it could also affect trade talks with China.

  • Let's explore the stakes in Hong Kong with Susan Shirk.

  • She's the chair of the 21st Century China Program at the University of California, San

  • Diego.

  • She returned from a trip to China this week.

  • Susan, thank you very much for being with us.

  • I want to ask you about what we just saw.

  • There's now no doubt, we heard, about where the public sentiment in Hong Kong lies.

  • So, from the perspective of the Hong Kong government and from the Chinese government

  • in Beijing, how does this change the calculus for what they do next?

  • SUSAN SHIRK, University of California, San Diego: Right before I came to the studio,

  • the official media in China had not yet reported the outcome of the election.

  • They did finally report there was the election, but they really haven't reported the results.

  • And there's some indication from people on the ground I have heard from that they have

  • been talking to journalists, Chinese journalists, who say that, in fact, the Chinese leadership

  • was surprised by the outcome of the election, and then they are now scrambling to figure

  • out what to do about it.

  • It's really remarkable that, despite these large-scale protests that have gone on for

  • months, they still were surprised by the outcome of the election.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: So how do you think these election results changed the dynamic?

  • SUSAN SHIRK: If Carrie Lam resigns to kind of take responsibility for the outcome, that

  • might defuse the protests for a while, as people wait and see what more Beijing will

  • do to meet the other demands, including some progress toward more direct elections.

  • And, of course, if Carrie Lam has to be replaced, then that also raises the issue of how you

  • select the chief executive.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Susan, you heard in the piece there some people were referring to this as

  • a turning point.

  • Do you believe that it could be that, this could bring about some real change?

  • SUSAN SHIRK: Well, you know, it's a test of Xi Jinping's pragmatism.

  • Is he really very dogmatic?

  • Did he really believe his own propaganda?

  • Did the internal channels from the liaison office in Hong Kong actually, fearing to give

  • him bad news, give him an unrealistic view of what was happening in Hong Kong?

  • If he's pragmatic, then it to seems to me he's likely to do -- try to find a way to

  • respond to some of the protesters' demands, at least by getting rid of the very unpopular

  • Carrie Lam.

  • Really, this is kind of a fork in the road for Xi Jinping.

  • Is he going to double down on control and indoctrination, or is he going to be flexible

  • and give a little bit in the direction of more direct democratic election of Hong Kong

  • political leaders?

  • AMNA NAWAZ: And, Susan, that is the latest from Hong Kong, but I do want to get your

  • take on a different topic we're also covering today.

  • I would like to shift now to mainland China, where leaked Communist Party documents show

  • the internal workings of internment and reeducation camps used to detain a million people.

  • The China cables are the first official glimpse into the structure and ideology behind these

  • camps in Northwest China's Xinjiang province, where at least one million Muslim Uyghurs

  • and members of other minority groups are detained on industrial scale.

  • The documents show that the Chinese government officials designed the camps as brainwashing

  • centers on a massive scale, with multiple layers of security.

  • Among the other revelations: Camp inmates could be held indefinitely.

  • Camps are run on a points system where inmates earn credits for compliance.

  • Weekly phone calls or monthly video calls are the only contact allowed.

  • And preventing escape is paramount.

  • The Chinese foreign minister said documents leaked earlier this month to The New York

  • Times were fabricated.

  • GENG SHUANG (through translator): They are also sensationalizing these internal documents

  • by using poor tactics, like taking them out of context and grafting them onto another,

  • to undermine and tarnish China's efforts on anti-terrorism and depolarization in Xinjiang.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Foreign affairs correspondent Nick Schifrin sat down with National Security

  • Adviser Robert O'Brien over the weekend at the Halifax Security Forum.

  • ROBERT O'BRIEN, U.S. National Security Adviser: We have over a million people in concentration

  • examples in Xinjiang.

  • I mean, that's an outrage.

  • President Xi has the power of writ in China.

  • What he says goes.

  • And those camps should be closed.

  • They should be dismantled.

  • But it's not just the camps.

  • It's the surveillance infrastructure that's been built in the region.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Susan Shirk, as we reported, that is the second trove of leaked documents to

  • be published in just over a week, the previous batch by The New York Times.

  • Going through the documents, what do we learn in terms of the involvement of President Xi

  • Jinping in these camps and these efforts?

  • SUSAN SHIRK: Well, The New York Times' story makes explicit that there's no evidence, no

  • statement in these documents that Xi Jinping actually ordered the establishment of the

  • camps.

  • What he did is start a campaign to try to crack down on terrorism in 2014, after a number

  • of terrorist attacks in Xinjiang and, of course, terrorist attacks outside of China as well.

  • And he -- so, he launched this very harsh campaign of indoctrination to try to undertake

  • thought reform of Uyghurs and other ethnic groups in Xinjiang.

  • So, he himself -- we don't have the document yet in which he ordered the camps, but, certainly,

  • the establishment of the camps, which was done by provincial officials -- at least,

  • that's what the documents tell us -- was a response to this campaign launched by Xi Jinping.

  • And what's really remarkable about the campaign is it shows that Xi Jinping still believes

  • in this Maoist notion of thought reform.

  • He really believes that this kind of intensive brainwashing can change the way people think.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: What does it say to you that these documents are even being leaked at all, the

  • fact that these are seeing the light of day?

  • SUSAN SHIRK: Well, it shows that not everybody in the Chinese bureaucracy and the party and

  • government bureaucracy agrees with this very heavy-handed, repressive police state approach

  • to governing China.

  • In fact, the documents, from the standpoint of a China watcher, are really fascinating,

  • because they show that some of the local officials objected to this approach.

  • And, in fact, some officials released people from the camps because they wanted to make

  • sure that they met their economic growth targets.

  • And without the labor power, they weren't going to be able to do that.

  • So I think, you know, from outside, China looks so monolithic, but, in fact, I think

  • there are a lot of different points of view, and not everybody agrees with the direction

  • Xi is taking the country.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: That is Susan Shirk of the 21st Century China Center at the University of

  • California, San Diego.

  • Thank you for being with us.

  • SUSAN SHIRK: My pleasure.

JUDY WOODRUFF: After months of protests in Hong Kong, yesterday brought an extraordinary

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北京將如何迴應香港選舉結果和洩露的維吾爾族文件? (How will Beijing respond to Hong Kong election results and leaked Uighur documents?)

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    林宜悉 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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