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  • >> So I'd like to welcome you all.

  • My name is Kyle Carpenter Ashley and I'm the Acting Director of the Center for Gender

  • and Student Engagement on campus.

  • And I have the privilege of welcoming Dr. Kimmel to campus today.

  • He's been on campus all day running around and I'm sure he's exhausted already and running

  • in between the rain and everything.

  • So, we have to thank him for that and I thank you all

  • for being here as well despite the weather.

  • So, I think now is a really prime and pivotal time for a conversation to be had on our campus

  • about gender and specifically about men and masculinities.

  • I think many of us on campus are familiar with some of the conversations that we've been having

  • over the past year, particularly around 40 years of co-education.

  • It's been particularly poignant and along

  • with those conversations there have been some other occurrences and things

  • that have been happening like the creation of the GRID program

  • which is the Gender Research Institute at Dartmouth

  • with the Women and Gender Studies Program.

  • The name change of the Center for Gender and Student Engagement which was formerly the Center

  • for Women in Gender and then, of course, the Day of Reflection, which happened this fall

  • where we all stopped and reflected on some of the issues that we've been facing on our campus,

  • particularly around gender and sexual assault.

  • So, I think our campus is primed for this conversation.

  • We're ready and as we said this afternoon in some of our conversations,

  • I think we're at a turning point.

  • I think we're at a place where our campus is really ready to make some changes

  • and so I think we welcome Dr. Kimmel at a really, at a really crucial time

  • to have this sort of conversation.

  • And I think we also want to start by acknowledging that everybody who comes

  • into the room here has a different experience with this kind of conversation.

  • And not everybody is in the same place and so one of the things that Dr. Kimmel was talking

  • about earlier this afternoon, which I think is quite poignant,

  • is that sometimes we stumble upon this work.

  • We stumble upon these types of conversations.

  • You know he labeled it as accidental activists and he shared a little bit of his story

  • and how he got started with this work as being an accident.

  • He didn't really mean to start doing this work.

  • He was doing 17th century French tax policy and--

  • >> But you've already read that folks, I'm sure.

  • So, you don't need me to talk about it.

  • >> Very interesting stuff, but he stumbled upon doing gender work, gender equity work

  • and found his true passion there.

  • And so, I think I bring that up to say that there are likely many of us

  • in the audience today who may be stumbling into this conversation and I think again,

  • it's a great opportunity to have Dr. Kimmel with us.

  • So, Dr. Kimmel is among one of the world's leading researchers

  • and scholars on men and masculinity.

  • He is the author and editor of more than 20 volumes on the subject and his books include,

  • "The Politics of Manhood", "The Gender of Desire", "The History of Men", "Guyland",

  • "Misframing Men" and his most recent publication, "The Guys Guide to Feminism",

  • which we've been highlighting with the Seed Program and including in many

  • of our conversations over the course of the summer illustrates how understanding

  • and supporting feminism can help men to live richer, fuller and happier lives.

  • And in addition, I just learned this fact about Dr. Kimmel, is that he's also included

  • on Marlo Thomas who is the creator of "Free to Be You and Me"; some of you may be familiar

  • with that initiatives several decades ago.

  • She created a list just this past March of the top 19 guys who get it

  • and Dr. Kimmel was included on that list in good company along with--

  • >> Only five of them were alive.

  • [laughter]

  • >> And I should note also right next to Ryan Gossling.

  • So, really in really good company next to, yea that's right, that's right.

  • So, before we get started I just want to put out there that some of the subjects that we're going

  • to be talking about today are sensitive.

  • We're going to be talking about masculinity.

  • We're going to be talking about power and potentially talking about violence.

  • And so I know that that is sensitive and potentially triggering for folks.

  • I know that we have support in the audience.

  • We've got some SAPAs, which are sexual assault peer advisors.

  • I know we have some MAZ in the audience and so if there's anything that comes

  • up for folks we can connect you to the right resources.

  • And then lastly I just want to say if throughout this conversation you would like to learn more

  • about having conversations around gender on campus you can contact me.

  • I work in the Center for Gender Engagement which is over in the Choates.

  • It's kind of over there on campus and not many people come to visit us, but it's a great space.

  • And if you want to learn more please get a hold of me.

  • So, without further ado please help me in welcoming Dr. Michael Kimmel.

  • [ Applause ]

  • >> Thank you very much Kyle.

  • Only five of the people that Marlo mentioned in her column are still alive.

  • Most of them-- and so actually-- and it's important I suspect to say some of the names

  • of some of the ones who she mentioned as you know the guys who--

  • you know men who supported gender equality or supported feminism included Thomas Paine,

  • for example, who sat on July 4, 1776 and read the Declaration of Independence and said,

  • "If I were a woman I would not be included in this", right.

  • And so that-- and so he actually wrote a letter about you know why that was the wrong thing

  • or Frederick Douglass, arguably the greatest orator in American history who was the one

  • at Seneca Falls; some of you might not know this.

  • At Seneca Falls on the first day every single plank

  • of the women's platform passed except one, and that one was suffrage.

  • The next morning Douglass stands up and says, "Without the vote you have nothing."

  • And it was his speech that actually got the congress to pass the suffrage plank

  • of the first you know, first suffrage convention in Seneca Falls in 1848.

  • The next day, bear this in mind guys who support gender equality,

  • the next day the Syracuse newspaper called Frederick Douglass and Aunt Nancy Man.

  • And Aunt Nancy Man was the 19th century equivalent of a woos, right.

  • So, you stand up for women's rights, they question your masculinity, right.

  • What, I mean and think of the illogic here for a moment.

  • What kind of real man would actually care enough about women to not hold them in contempt?

  • So, there are costs I suspect.

  • Alright, so here's what I'm going to say.

  • I am really thrilled to be here at Dartmouth.

  • I have come-- I've been, I've spoken here, this is I think about the fifth

  • or sixth time I've come to Dartmouth and I'm going to tell you a little bit

  • about what I've learned in some ways from you all over those times that I have been here.

  • I did this book that came out in 2008 called "Guyland", in which I went around the country

  • and interviewed about 400 young people, mostly men, mostly white, mostly straight,

  • to try to get a sense of what was going on in this age cohort

  • and I'll tell you a little bit about that in a minute.

  • But I want you to know that I carefully disguised all of the names

  • and all of the colleges and identifiers except with one small exception, you.

  • And-- but all throughout the book you know you could never tell,

  • but some of the interviews were actually done here at Dartmouth.

  • I also, the part, that's all disguised.

  • The very beginning of the book though I did talk about, about six guys who had been

  • in the same paternity here at Dartmouth and all graduated and moved to an apartment

  • in Boston together and they-- and they-- you know they kind of every night they went

  • to the Dartmouth bar and they basically reproduced college life

  • for the next three years after graduation.

  • And so I watched them kind of-- and this is the word that I ended up using in the book,

  • drift into adulthood after college.

  • There was no sort of single marker the day you get your degree, you know there was no right

  • of passage particularly for them.

  • They kind of drifted into it over those years that they were living in Boston.

  • So, and that's the only place in the book where I actually mention the name

  • of the college is honest because there-- you know I mentioned the name of the bar in Boston

  • and so you probably all know it or you soon will.

  • So, but let-- but what I want to do basically is and I've advertised this talk about being a man

  • at Dartmouth, and so what I want to do is I'm going to sort of insert Dartmouth

  • into the conversation that I try to establish in "Guyland" by taking you backstage a little bit

  • to say what I think it has produced, the moment that we are at on most college campuses

  • in the country and particularly, as Kyle mentions, some of the issues

  • that are think are particularly important

  • and particularly salient right here, right now at Dartmouth.

  • You are at the moment you know engaged in a conversation

  • that for many you know is very discomforting and for others they're saying it's about time.

  • So it's both jarring and also long awaited and so I want to talk a little bit about that

  • and I'll get to that toward the end when I try to suggest some of the ways

  • that we can continue to think about this.

  • But mostly I am-- you were kind enough not to mention this,

  • but I am actually a sociology professor.

  • And so my job as those of you who have ever endured a class in sociology know

  • that what we do is we always are setting context for everything.

  • So, what I'm going to try to do is I'm going to try to set the context

  • for the larger conversation we're having about gender on college campuses.

  • And there's a particular irony that I'm going to describe to you that will come

  • through in the conversation, which is on the one hand there is no more gender equal institution

  • in the United States today than the American college campus.

  • And yet, the American college campus is also marked by dramatic gender inequality.

  • And that is one of the-- and that irony or that paradox is something I want to explore.

  • You may call it daytime and nighttime, but that idea that the most,

  • the most gender equal institution we have is also dramatically gender unequal.

  • Now, that's going to be the big sort of-- that's the big plan.

  • So, what I want to do is I want to sort of want to take you inside why I started thinking

  • about this book, what I found and why I call it "Guyland."

  • And really this is a book because we-- I started because I think we're having two conversations

  • in the United States today about young people.

  • If you ask parents of say 10 year olds here's what you'll here.

  • Oh my God, they're growing up so fast.

  • Why they're doing stuff at 10 or 11 that we weren't doing until we were 15 or 16,

  • because everybody knows 10 is the new 20.

  • Now, talk to parents of 30 year olds and you will hear, will they ever grow up?

  • They move back home after college.

  • They can't commit to a relationship.

  • They can't commit to a career because what you also know is 30 is the new 20.

  • So, what I decided to do was map the new 20.

  • I've shaved off a few years on either side and I said 16 to 26,

  • I want to talk about what's happening to young people in America in this age group 16 to 26.

  • So, and here's what I stumbled on.

  • I didn't intend to find this, but this is what I think I found.

  • I found that there is in the United States today a new stage of development.

  • It is-- and it is permanent and it is true for both women and men

  • and it's not going to stop, okay.

  • So, there's a new stage of development.

  • So, now I'm going to talk a little bit about stages of development.

  • So, my story there begins in 1902.

  • In 1902 one of America's most celebrated psychologists, G. Stanley Hall,

  • those of you who know anything about G. Stanley Hall, he was the President

  • of Clark University in Massachusetts.

  • Hall was the only American to say to himself you know this guy Freud has some interesting ideas.

  • Maybe we ought to invite him to give a lecture.

  • The only lecture Sigmund Freud gave on American soil was at Clark University, right.

  • So, G. Stanley Hall was no dummy.

  • He says, he writes this book 1902 at 1600 pages long, two volumes,

  • and here's the basic thesis of the book.

  • He said," In the 19th century Americans went directly from being children to being grownups.

  • After you finish primary school by age 12 or 13 you were apprenticed,

  • you went to work on the family farm, you shipped

  • out on the P quad; you basically were a grownup."

  • But now, 1902 he says, "But now there's a new stage of development

  • in between childhood and adulthood.

  • It's a period of confusion.

  • It's a period of turmoil of finding your identity" and he called

  • that state of development "adolescence."

  • He's the guy who invented the term.

  • That's the title of 1600 page, two volume book, "Adolescence."

  • And he believed that adolescence ends pretty much at the end

  • of high school or around age 20 or so.

  • "That by the time you're 18 or 20", he said, "you're a grownup."

  • You're getting married.

  • You're having your-- you know you're developing a career path.

  • You're having a family and so most people, and that was true by the way,

  • for the first half of the 20th century.

  • For the first half of the 20th century most Americans had completed the five markers

  • of adulthood.

  • These are-- there are five demographic markers of adulthood and they had completed most five--

  • most of them or almost all of them by age 20 or 21.

  • Those five are: You finish your education, you leave your family's house, you get married,

  • have a kid, get a job; those are the big five.

  • And like my mother, my mother finished all five of those within three months.

  • She graduated from college in May, got married in June, immediately got pregnant with me,

  • moved out of her parent's house into her marriage house

  • and that September started her first teaching job in the New York City public schools,

  • as did pretty much all of her friends and all of their friends.

  • The average age of marriage in 1950 was about 21.2.

  • Today it is 28.6.

  • It is now taking us a full decade, 40 percent of all college graduates will move back home

  • after they graduate and not for the summer.

  • It is taking us a full decade longer to complete those five markers of adulthood.

  • So, what I tried to set up in this book was to map that new stage of development

  • in between adolescence and adulthood, right, why 30 is the new 20,

  • why it's taking us a full decade longer.

  • Now other people, I'm not the first person to think about this.

  • There are plenty of other people and psychology,

  • developmental psychology there's a whole emerging field called emerging adulthood.

  • Marketers on Madison Avenue they are all over this age demographic right.

  • They call it adultalescence.

  • And the reason that they're all over it, of course, is because you're single.

  • You have a job or at least some kind of, some kind of income,

  • you're not married with a kid or a mortgage.

  • You can spend it all and they want your money so they are all over this.

  • I call it Guyland and I call it Guyland even though it's true for women and for men,

  • because I think that it defines the way in which we think about it and the way in which </