>>> WE HAVE AN ALL-STAR PANEL TO WALK US THROUGH SOME OF THE

WALK US THROUGH SOME OF THE LEGALITIES OF TODAY'S TRIAL

LEGALITIES OF TODAY'S TRIAL PROCEEDINGS.

PROCEEDINGS. NBC LEGAL ANALYST AND FORMER

NBC LEGAL ANALYST AND FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, CYNTHIA.

FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, CYNTHIA. ATTORNEY AND NBC LEGAL ANALYST,

ATTORNEY AND NBC LEGAL ANALYST, DAN

DAN DANNY CEVALLOS.

DANNY CEVALLOS. I'D LIKE TO PLAY SOMETHING HE

I'D LIKE TO PLAY SOMETHING HE SAID THAT PRETTY MUCH SUMS UP

SAID THAT PRETTY MUCH SUMS UP HIS CASE FOR TRUMP'S REMOVAL

HIS CASE FOR TRUMP'S REMOVAL FROM OFFICE.

FROM OFFICE. >> IMPEACHMENT EXISTS FOR CASES

>> IMPEACHMENT EXISTS FOR CASES IN WHICH THE CONDUCT OF THE

IN WHICH THE CONDUCT OF THE PRESIDENT RISES BEYOND MERE

PRESIDENT RISES BEYOND MERE POLICIES, DISPUTES, TO BE

POLICIES, DISPUTES, TO BE DECIDED OTHERWISE AND WOUTDITHOU

DECIDED OTHERWISE AND WOUTDITHOU URGENCY AT THE BALLOT BOX.

URGENCY AT THE BALLOT BOX. INSTEAD, WE ARE HERE TODAY TO

INSTEAD, WE ARE HERE TODAY TO CONSIDER A MUCH MORE GRAVE

CONSIDER A MUCH MORE GRAVE MATTER.

MATTER. AND THAT IS AN ATTEMPT TO USE

AND THAT IS AN ATTEMPT TO USE THE POWERS OF THE PRESIDENCY TO

THE POWERS OF THE PRESIDENCY TO CHEAT IN AN ELECTION FOR.

CHEAT IN AN ELECTION FOR. FOR PRECISELY THIS REASON, THE

FOR PRECISELY THIS REASON, THE PRESIDENT'S CONDUCT CANNOT BE

PRESIDENT'S CONDUCT CANNOT BE DECIDED AT THE BALLOT BOX.

DECIDED AT THE BALLOT BOX. >> YOUR REACTION TO THAT

>> YOUR REACTION TO THAT STRATEGY?

STRATEGY? >> I MEAN, I THINK IT'S A --

>> I MEAN, I THINK IT'S A -- IT'S BASICALLY TRUE.

IT'S BASICALLY TRUE. I MEAN, THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF THE

I MEAN, THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF THE STRATEGY.

STRATEGY. HE WAS VERY EFFECTIVE TODAY.

HE WAS VERY EFFECTIVE TODAY. MORE EFFECTIVE THAN I THOUGHT

MORE EFFECTIVE THAN I THOUGHT WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE

WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE FACTS IN THE ARGUMENT THAN WHEN

FACTS IN THE ARGUMENT THAN WHEN HE WAS QUOTING HAMILTON.

HE WAS QUOTING HAMILTON. BUT I THOUGHT HE WAS VERY

BUT I THOUGHT HE WAS VERY EFFECTIVE AT NOT ONLY REPEATING

EFFECTIVE AT NOT ONLY REPEATING AND GOING THROUGH THE FACTS.

AND GOING THROUGH THE FACTS. BUT THEN TAKING A PAUSE AND --

BUT THEN TAKING A PAUSE AND -- AND THEN ASKING THE QUESTION,

AND THEN ASKING THE QUESTION, WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT? AND THEN ANSWERING IT.

AND THEN ANSWERING IT. VERY EFFECTIVE TODAY.

VERY EFFECTIVE TODAY. I THINK HIS TONE WAS GOOD.

I THINK HIS TONE WAS GOOD. HE WAS APPEALING TO THE BETTER

HE WAS APPEALING TO THE BETTER ANGELS OF THE SENATE.

ANGELS OF THE SENATE. HE WAS ALSO TAKING THE TIME, IN

HE WAS ALSO TAKING THE TIME, IN MY OPINION, TO APPEAL TO THE

MY OPINION, TO APPEAL TO THE OTHER JURY, IN THIS CASE THE

OTHER JURY, IN THIS CASE THE AMERICAN VOTER.

AMERICAN VOTER. SOME HAVE CRITICIZED IT'S TOO

SOME HAVE CRITICIZED IT'S TOO BORING BUT THE TRUTH IS

BORING BUT THE TRUTH IS DIFFERENT PEOPLE TUNE INTO

DIFFERENT PEOPLE TUNE INTO TELEVISION AT DIFFERENT TIMES.

TELEVISION AT DIFFERENT TIMES. SO WE REALLY NEED TO MAKE SURE

SO WE REALLY NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT NOT ONLY ARE ALL THE

THAT NOT ONLY ARE ALL THE SENATORS AWAKE FOR THIS ARGUMENT

SENATORS AWAKE FOR THIS ARGUMENT BUT EVERYBODY WHO TUNES IN

BUT EVERYBODY WHO TUNES IN DURING THE DAY OVER THE COURSE

DURING THE DAY OVER THE COURSE OF THEIR DAY GETS THE

OF THEIR DAY GETS THE INFORMATION THEY NEED IN ORDER

INFORMATION THEY NEED IN ORDER TO BE REALLY EDUCATED ABOUT

TO BE REALLY EDUCATED ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE WHITE

WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

HOUSE. >> DANNY, THIS MORNING IN DAVOS,

>> DANNY, THIS MORNING IN DAVOS, THE PRESIDENT TALKED ABOUT THE

THE PRESIDENT TALKED ABOUT THE DOCUMENTS DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN

DOCUMENTS DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO ACCESS.

TRYING TO ACCESS. HERE'S WHAT HE SAID.

HERE'S WHAT HE SAID. >> WE'RE DOING VERY WELL.

>> WE'RE DOING VERY WELL. I GOT TO WATCH ENOUGH.

I GOT TO WATCH ENOUGH. I THOUGHT OUR TEAM DID A VERY

I THOUGHT OUR TEAM DID A VERY GOOD JOB.

GOOD JOB. BUT HONESTLY, WE HAVE ALL THE

BUT HONESTLY, WE HAVE ALL THE MATERIAL.

MATERIAL. THEY DON'T HAVE THE MATERIAL.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE MATERIAL. >> DANNY, DEMOCRATS JUMPED ON

>> DANNY, DEMOCRATS JUMPED ON THAT ONE RIGHT AWAY SAYING THE

THAT ONE RIGHT AWAY SAYING THE PRESIDENT'S BRAGGING ABOUT

PRESIDENT'S BRAGGING ABOUT OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE THERE.

OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE THERE. YOU'RE A DEFENSE ATTORNEY.

YOU'RE A DEFENSE ATTORNEY. WHAT DO YOU SAY?

WHAT DO YOU SAY? >> ISN'T IT AMAZING THAT

>> ISN'T IT AMAZING THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SUCCESSFULLY

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SUCCESSFULLY GOTTEN US TO A POINT WHERE WE

GOTTEN US TO A POINT WHERE WE AUTOMATICALLY THINK WHEN HE SAYS

AUTOMATICALLY THINK WHEN HE SAYS SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OH, HE'S

SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OH, HE'S NOT SO GREAT WITH WORDS.

NOT SO GREAT WITH WORDS. WHAT HE MEANT INSTEAD OF

WHAT HE MEANT INSTEAD OF MATERIAL IS SUBSTANCE.

MATERIAL IS SUBSTANCE. HE MEANT PROBABLY -- BECAUSE I'M

HE MEANT PROBABLY -- BECAUSE I'M SURE THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT HE IS

SURE THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT HE IS GOING TO SAY.

GOING TO SAY. HE HAS TO SAY.

HE HAS TO SAY. THERE'S NO OTHER DEFENSE TO

THERE'S NO OTHER DEFENSE TO SAYING WE HAVE THE MATERIAL.

SAYING WE HAVE THE MATERIAL. THEY DON'T HAVE THE MATERIAL.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE MATERIAL. BECAUSE IF HE DOES MEAN

BECAUSE IF HE DOES MEAN DOCUMENTS AND RECORDS THAT WE'RE

DOCUMENTS AND RECORDS THAT WE'RE REFUSING TO TURN OVER, THAT JUST

REFUSING TO TURN OVER, THAT JUST BOLSTERS THE ARTICLE II ARGUMENT

BOLSTERS THE ARTICLE II ARGUMENT THAT HE IS OBSTRUCTING CONGRESS.

THAT HE IS OBSTRUCTING CONGRESS. SO THAT IS NOT A GOOD POSITION.

SO THAT IS NOT A GOOD POSITION. BUT AMAZINGLY, HE WILL CAME OR

BUT AMAZINGLY, HE WILL CAME OR HIS DEFENDERS WILL CAME HE MEANT

HIS DEFENDERS WILL CAME HE MEANT WE HAVE THE SUBSTANCE.

WE HAVE THE SUBSTANCE. WE HAVE THE MORE POWERFUL

WE HAVE THE MORE POWERFUL ARGUMENT.

ARGUMENT. YOU KNOW WHAT?

YOU KNOW WHAT? WE'LL ACCEPT IT BECAUSE HE'S

WE'LL ACCEPT IT BECAUSE HE'S CREATED AN ATMOSPHERE WHERE WE

CREATED AN ATMOSPHERE WHERE WE THINK HE DOESN'T REALLY

THINK HE DOESN'T REALLY COMMUNICATE WELL.

COMMUNICATE WELL. HE DOESN'T HAVE A VERY STRONG

HE DOESN'T HAVE A VERY STRONG VOCABULARY.

VOCABULARY. HE MEANT MATERIAL.

HE MEANT MATERIAL. OR DID HE MEAN, YOU KNOW, BETTER

OR DID HE MEAN, YOU KNOW, BETTER ARGUMENT?

ARGUMENT? OR STRONGER ARGUMENT?

OR STRONGER ARGUMENT? OR SUBSTANCE?

OR SUBSTANCE? OR FACTS?

OR FACTS? >> WHITE HOUSE ATTORNEY JAY

>> WHITE HOUSE ATTORNEY JAY SEKULOW TOLD REPORTERS TODAY

SEKULOW TOLD REPORTERS TODAY WHAT HE'S MOST EAGER TO REBUT

WHAT HE'S MOST EAGER TO REBUT WHEN IT IS THE DEFENSE'S TURN.

WHEN IT IS THE DEFENSE'S TURN. HERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT HE

HERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT HE SAID.

SAID. >> NOTICE WHAT'S NOT IN THE

>> NOTICE WHAT'S NOT IN THE ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT.

ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT. ALLEGATIONS OR ACCUSATIONS OF

ALLEGATIONS OR ACCUSATIONS OF QUID PRO QUO.

QUID PRO QUO. THAT'S BECAUSE IT DIDN'T EXIST.

THAT'S BECAUSE IT DIDN'T EXIST. >> DOES QUID PRO QUO, THE TERM

>> DOES QUID PRO QUO, THE TERM QUID PRO QUO, NEED TO BE

QUID PRO QUO, NEED TO BE SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED IN THE

SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED IN THE ARTICLES?

ARTICLES? >> NO, IT DOESN'T AT ALL.

>> NO, IT DOESN'T AT ALL. THAT WAS KIND OF A SILLY

THAT WAS KIND OF A SILLY ARGUMENT, FRANKLY, IN MY

ARGUMENT, FRANKLY, IN MY OPINION.

OPINION. THE ABUSE OF POWER INCLUDES

THE ABUSE OF POWER INCLUDES THE -- THE QUID PRO QUO.

THE -- THE QUID PRO QUO. IT -- IT -- IT INCLUDES A

IT -- IT -- IT INCLUDES A VIOLATION OF THE IMPOUNDMENT

VIOLATION OF THE IMPOUNDMENT ACT.

ACT. IT INCLUDES, ESSENTIALLY,

IT INCLUDES, ESSENTIALLY, EXTORTION AND BRIBERY.

EXTORTION AND BRIBERY. IT IS AN UMBRELLA TERM TO COVER

IT IS AN UMBRELLA TERM TO COVER THE PRESIDENT MISUSING HIS

THE PRESIDENT MISUSING HIS AUTHORITY AS THE PRESIDENT FOR

AUTHORITY AS THE PRESIDENT FOR HIS OWN PERSONAL POLITICAL GAIN.

HIS OWN PERSONAL POLITICAL GAIN. AND QUID PRO QUO IS PART OF THAT

AND QUID PRO QUO IS PART OF THAT ABUSE OF POWER.

ABUSE OF POWER. >> DANNY, WE SAW THE PRESIDENT

>> DANNY, WE SAW THE PRESIDENT TALKING JUST A MOMENT AGO.

TALKING JUST A MOMENT AGO. HE ADDRESSED THE PRESS SEVERAL

HE ADDRESSED THE PRESS SEVERAL TIMES TODAY.

TIMES TODAY. IF YOU WERE HIS LAWYER, WOULD

IF YOU WERE HIS LAWYER, WOULD YOU BE OKAY WITH THAT?

YOU BE OKAY WITH THAT? >> OF COURSE NOT.

>> OF COURSE NOT. I'M A DEFENSE ATTORNEY.

I'M A DEFENSE ATTORNEY. THE FIRST THING I TELL MY

THE FIRST THING I TELL MY CLIENTS IS DO NOT MAKE PUBLIC

CLIENTS IS DO NOT MAKE PUBLIC STATEMENTS.

STATEMENTS. BUT THE OTHER THING AS A DEFENSE

BUT THE OTHER THING AS A DEFENSE ATTORNEY IS SOMETIMES YOU HAVE A

ATTORNEY IS SOMETIMES YOU HAVE A CLIENT WHO IS GOING TO DO

CLIENT WHO IS GOING TO DO EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.

EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. AFTER ALL --

AFTER ALL -- >> WAIT A SECOND.

>> WAIT A SECOND. YOU THINK THIS IS ONE OF THOSE

YOU THINK THIS IS ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES?

EXAMPLES? >> IMPACTLYESPECIALLY IN CRIMINA

>> IMPACTLYESPECIALLY IN CRIMINA DEFENSE, SOMETIMES THE CLIENT

DEFENSE, SOMETIMES THE CLIENT THAT DOES WHATEVER THEY WANT TO

THAT DOES WHATEVER THEY WANT TO DO, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE YOUR

DO, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE YOUR CLIENT TO BEGIN WITH.

CLIENT TO BEGIN WITH. BECAUSE THEY DO EVERYTHING THEIR

BECAUSE THEY DO EVERYTHING THEIR WAY.

WAY. THEIR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.

THEIR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY. AND THAT'S HOW THEY HAVE ARRIVED

AND THAT'S HOW THEY HAVE ARRIVED AT THIS POINT.

AT THIS POINT. SIMILARLY, WITH TRUMP, HE'S DONE

SIMILARLY, WITH TRUMP, HE'S DONE EVERYTHING.

EVERYTHING. EVEN -- I'M CALLED TO MIND OF

EVEN -- I'M CALLED TO MIND OF HIS DANCE WHEN HE WAS BEING

HIS DANCE WHEN HE WAS BEING INAUGURATED AND HE MOUTHS THE

INAUGURATED AND HE MOUTHS THE WORDS TO FRANK SINATRA'S "MY

WORDS TO FRANK SINATRA'S "MY WAY."

WAY." WHEN HIS ATTORNEYS MEET WITH

WHEN HIS ATTORNEYS MEET WITH THEM, HE'S TELLING THEM HOW IT'S

THEM, HE'S TELLING THEM HOW IT'S GOING TO BE AND THAT'S WHY HE

GOING TO BE AND THAT'S WHY HE GOES THROUGH A LOT OF ATTORNEYS

GOES THROUGH A LOT OF ATTORNEYS BECAUSE SOONER OR LATER, THE

BECAUSE SOONER OR LATER, THE ATTORNEY HAS TO DO WHAT'S BEST

ATTORNEY HAS TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR THE CLIENT.

FOR THE CLIENT. NOT EXACTLY WHAT THE CLIENT

NOT EXACTLY WHAT THE CLIENT WANTS.

WANTS. I AM CERTAIN EVERY SINGLE LAWYER

I AM CERTAIN EVERY SINGLE LAWYER HE'S HAD HAS TRIED TO SAY TO HIM

HE'S HAD HAS TRIED TO SAY TO HIM DIAL DOWN THE SOCIAL MEDIA.

DIAL DOWN THE SOCIAL MEDIA. AND I'M SURE EVERY SINGLE LAWYER

AND I'M SURE EVERY SINGLE LAWYER HAS GONE BACK TO THE OTHER

HAS GONE BACK TO THE OTHER LAWYERS AND SAID HE'S NOT DOING

LAWYERS AND SAID HE'S NOT DOING IT.

IT. WE HAVE A DECISION TO MAKE.

WE HAVE A DECISION TO MAKE. CAN WE CONTINUE TO REPRESENT

CAN WE CONTINUE TO REPRESENT HIM?

HIM? OR DO WE HAVE TO WITHDRAWAL?

OR DO WE HAVE TO WITHDRAWAL? AND IN MOST CASES, YOU KNOW,

AND IN MOST CASES, YOU KNOW, THEY STAY ON BOARD.