U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

APPROVED TWO ARTICLES OF

IMPEACHMENT, DEMOCRATS HOPING TO

TAKE ON PRESIDENT TRUMP NEXT

NOVEMBER WERE ON STAGE,

DEBATING.

AND ON THAT SAME NIGHT, AT A

CAMPAIGN RALLY IN MICHIGAN, THE

PRESIDENT SPOKE FOR MORE THAN

TWO HOURS.

HE ANGRILY BLASTED DEMOCRATS AND

ATTACKED THE IMPEACHMENT

PROCESS.

JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS ALL OF

THIS ARE CHRIS BUSKIRK, EDITOR

AND PUBLISHER OF "AMERICAN

GREATNESS," WHO IS IN PHOENIX,

ARIZONA; AND KARINE JEAN-PIERRE,

CHIEF PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICER AT

moveon.org IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

SHE'S ALSO THE AUTHOR OF "MOVING

FORWARD: A STORY OF HOPE, HARD

WORK AND THE PROMISE OF

AMERICA."

THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR

JOINING ME TODAY.

KARINE, I'M GOING TO START WITH

YOU.

HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI IS

NOW INDICATING SHE MAY DELAY

SENDING THE ARTICLES OF

IMPEACHMENT TO THE SENATE.

WHO BENEFITS FROM THAT POTENTIAL

STRATEGY?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT, YAMICHE, RIGHT

NOW WE'RE IN A CONSTITUTIONAL

GAME OF CHICKEN.

I DON'T THINK THAT OUR FOUNDING

FATHERS EVER THOUGHT THAT WE

WOULD BE IN A SITUATION WHERE

YOU HAVE ONE BODY, THE SENATE,

WHO SEEMS TO BE WANTING TO

COLLUDE WITH THE EXECUTIVE

BRANCH-- THAT IS, MITCH

McCONNELL, WHO HAS BASICALLY

SAID HE'S GOING TO WORK HAND IN

HAND WITH THE TRUMP

ADMINISTRATION.

AND WITH ALL OF THE GUIDANCE

THAT WE'VE RECEIVED IN THE

CONSTITUTION, WE'RE KIND IN A

GRAY AREA.

AND WHAT I THINK IS HAPPENING,

WHAT SEEMS TO BE HAPPENING IS

THAT SPEAKER PELOSI IS

ESSENTIALLY SAYING SHE WANTS A

FAIR TRIAL IN THE SENATE AND IS

USING HER LEVERAGE AT THIS

MOMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT

HAPPENS.

SO, RIGHT NOW, THIS IS JUST

WHERE WE ARE.

WE'RE IN... WE'RE IN THE HOLIDAY

SEASON.

WE WON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S

GOING TO BE HAPPENING UNTIL

AFTER JANUARY 6, WHEN THE HOUSE

AND THE SENATE COMES BACK FROM

THE HOLIDAY.

>> Alcindor: HOUSE SPEAKER

NANCY PELOSI IS SAYING SHE MIGHT

WITHHOLD THOSE ARTICLES OF

IMPEACHMENT FROM THE SENATE.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

KARINE SAYS WE'RE IN A GAME OF

CHICKEN HERE.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I'VE GOT TO

TELL YOU, YAMICHE, THIS HAS GOT

TO BE ONE OF MY FAVORITE STORIES

OF THE ENTIRE YEAR.

IT JUST SORT OF TICKLES ME

BECAUSE IT DEMONSTRATES WHAT A

BROKEN INSTITUTION CONGRESS IN

GENERAL IS.

AND THAT'S NOT REALLY SO MUCH A

HIT ON DEMOCRATS, ON

REPUBLICANS.

IT JUST SAYS, YOU KNOW, HERE WE

ARE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE

IMPEACHMENT OF THE PRESIDENT OF

THE UNITED STATES.

DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN TALKING

ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY

SINCE THE BEGINNING OF 2017.

THEY FINALLY PASSED THE

ARTICLES, BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO

SEND THEM TO THE SENATE.

AND SO, WHEN I THINK ABOUT THIS,

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS JUST

SORT OF DEGENERATED TO THE POINT

WHERE CONGRESS HAS BECOME LIKE

AN ARTISTS' COLLECTIVE

PERFORMING FOR THE RELATIVE

CONSTITUENCIES AND THEIR

PATRONS.

WE ALL KNOW HOW THIS ENDS UP.

THIS EVENTUALLY GOES TO THE

SENATE.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A TRIAL.

DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO BE

ACQUITTED, AND THEN WE'RE GOING

TO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE

ELECTION.

AND SO, TO THE EXTENT THAT THIS

DELAYS TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL

ELECTION THAT'S HAPPENING IN

NOVEMBER, WHETHER ANYBODY LIKES

IT OR NOT, I JUST DON'T SEE HOW

THIS HELPS DEMOCRATS.

SO, I WOULD THINK THAT NANCY

PELOSI WOULD WANT TO GET THIS

OVER TO MITCH McCONNELL AND TO

THE REPUBLICANS SOONER RATHER

THAN LATER.

>> Alcindor: CHRIS, STICKING

WITH YOU, "CHRISTIANITY TODAY,"

AN EVANGELICAL MAGAZINE, CAME

OUT IN SUPPORT OF REMOVING

PRESIDENT TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

THE EDITOR WROTE THAT PRESIDENT

TRUMP IS AN EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE

WHO IS MORALLY LOST AND

CONFUSED.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

AND HOW ARE REPUBLICANS TALKING

ABOUT THAT MAGAZINE COMING OUT

WITH THAT STANCE?

>> YEAH, SO, I THOUGHT THIS WAS

A TOTALLY INTERESTING STORY, AND

YOU ACTUALLY KEYED IN ON THE

LANGUAGE THAT I THOUGHT WAS MOST

INTERESTING IN THE WHOLE

EDITORIAL BY MARK GALLI, WHO'S

THE DEPARTING EDITOR OF

"CHRISTIANITY TODAY."

AND SO, HE SAYS, YES, DONALD

TRUMP SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM

OFFICE.

BUT HE USES AS A PREDICATE FOR

THAT, HE CALLS HIM MORALLY LOST.

AND THE THING THAT JUMPED OUT TO

ME ABOUT THAT LANGUAGE IS THAT

"LOST," YOU KNOW, IN A CHRISTIAN

CONTEXT, THAT'S A VERY FREIGHTED

TERM, RIGHT?

CHRISTIANS TALK ABOUT THE SAVED

AND THE LOST.

AND SO, WHAT... SO, IT JUST

STRUCK ME WHAT GALLI'S DOING

HERE IS, HE'S SETTING UP SORT OF

THIS DICHOTOMY WHERE YOU HAVE TO

SAY... YOU HAVE TO THINK HE'S

EITHER SAYING ON THE ONE HAND,

WELL, HE'S MORALLY LOST--

MEANING DONALD TRUMP ISN'T A

CHRISTIAN AND THEREFORE OUGHT

NOT TO BE IN OFFICE.

SO, IS HE SAYING THAT CHRISTIANS

OUGHT NOT TO BE PRESIDENT?

I HOPE NOT.

WELL, ON THE OTHER HAND, WHAT

HE'S TRYING TO DO IS WRAP HIS

POLITICAL OPINIONS IN CHRISTIAN

VOCABULARY IN ORDER TO TRY AND

BASICALLY TRICK THE READERS OF

"CHRISTIANITY TODAY" INTO

BELIEVING HIM.

AND EITHER WAY, I THINK THAT'S

SUPER CYNICAL.

>> Alcindor: TURNING NOW TO

THE DEMOCRATIC DEBATE, KARINE,

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF HOW, IF AT

ALL, THAT THIS DEMOCRATIC DEBATE

MIGHT IMPACT THE IOWA CAUCUSES?

THEY'RE JUST AROUND THE CORNER.

AND IF YOU WANT TO, YOU CAN TALK

A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT CHRIS

JUST SAID, BUT I ALSO REALLY

WANT TO GET TO THE IOWA CAUCUSES

AND THIS DEMOCRATIC DEBATE.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL,

CONGRATULATIONS TO EVERYONE AT

PBS.

YOU GUYS DID A FANTASTIC JOB.

IT WAS A VERY, VERY GOOD

MODERATED DEBATE.

SO, CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU,

YAMICHE, AS WELL.

LOOK, I THINK IT WAS, ALL IN

ALL, IT WAS A GOOD DEBATE LAST

WEEK.

NOBODY... NOBODY DID GREAT AND

NOBODY DID TERRIBLE.

I THINK THAT HAVING LESS PEOPLE

ON THE DEBATE STAGE REALLY

ALLOWED A REAL CONVERSATION

ABOUT VISION, ABOUT WHAT

PEOPLE'S PLANS ARE.

SOMEONE LIKE KLOBUCHAR REALLY

WAS ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF

HAVING LESS PEOPLE ON STAGE.

BIDEN DID WELL.

FOR WARREN AND OTHERS, LIKE

BERNIE SANDERS, I THINK IT WAS A

FINE DEBATE.

AS FAR AS IOWA, WE'RE LESS THAN

50 DAYS TO IOWA.

WE'RE IN THE HOLIDAY SEASON.

I THINK EVERYTHING IS KIND OF

FROZEN INTO PLACE.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE MUCH

MOVEMENT IN THE POLLS UNTIL

AFTER JANUARY WHEN WE GET CLOSER

TO, CLEARLY, THE CAUCUS.

AND, HONESTLY, I MEAN, THE POLLS

HAVE BEEN THE POLLS.

THE TOP THREE, THE TOP FOUR,

THAT TIER ONE HAS BASICALLY BEEN

WHAT WE SEE.

I THINK WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT

IOWA CAUCUS AND THE HISTORY OF

IT, AND HOW IT GOES IN THE

DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, USUALLY IT'S

SOMEONE THAT'S KIND OF... THAT

BREAKS LATE THAT WINS THE IOWA

CAUCUS.

SO, I ACTUALLY THINK IOWA IS

WIDE OPEN.

ANYONE CAN TAKE IT.

AND SO, IT'S GOING TO BE... IT'S

GOING TO BE A WILD RIDE COME

JANUARY, SO BUCKLE UP.

>> Alcindor: AND, CHRIS, I

SPOKE TO DEVAL PATRICK AND

JULIAN CASTRO, BOTH STILL

RUNNING FOR THE DEMOCRATIC

NOMINATION BUT NEITHER ONE OF

THEM GOT ON STAGE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY MIGHT

NEED TO DO ABOUT THIS?

AND ALSO, MICHAEL BLOOMBERG,

HE'S ACTUALLY SHOWING SUPPORT

GOING UP.

EVEN THOUGH HE'S NOT GOING TO BE

ABLE TO MAKE THE DEBATE STAGE,

HE IS POURING MILLIONS OF

DOLLARS OF ADS INTO TV.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, PATRICK AND

CASTRO, LOOK, WHAT THEY, I

THINK, ARE PROBABLY BEST SUITED

TO DO IS ALIGN WITH ONE OF THE

OTHER CANDIDATES.

I JUST DON'T SEE AN OPPORTUNITY

FOR THEM TO SORT OF BREAK OUT

AND ALL OF A SUDDEN WIN IOWA OR

NEW HAMPSHIRE OR SOMETHING.

MIKE BLOOMBERG IS SORT OF A

DIFFERENT AND, IN A WAY, MORE

INTERESTING STORY BECAUSE HE

JUST HAS THE ABILITY TO BLANKET

THE AIRWAVES, TO HIRE STAFF IN

EVERY STATE, AND BASICALLY TO

SUCK UP A TON OF OXYGEN JUST BY

VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT HE CAN

SELF-FUND TO THE EXTENT... I

MEAN, HE CAN LITERALLY SPEND

MORE MONEY THAN EVERY OTHER

CANDIDATE COMBINED, AND THAT

MEANS SOMETHING.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT IT MEANS, BUT

IT MEANS HE CAN BUY A LOT OF

STAFF, AND HE CAN BUY SOME

MEASURE OF SUPPORT.

AND YET, IT STILL SEEMS LIKE

HE'S JUST NOT THAT INTERESTING

OR CHARISMATIC OF A CANDIDATE.

YOU KNOW, I WATCHED THE DEBATES

THE OTHER NIGHT, AND I KEPT

THINKING, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY

EXCEPT BERNIE SANDERS SORT OF

REPRESENTS SOME FLAVOR OF THE

NEOLIBERAL CONCENSUS.

BERNIE SANDERS I FOUND TOTALLY

FASCINATING BECAUSE HE IS WHO HE

ALWAYS HAS BEEN.

AND AS A RESULT, I THOUGHT...

AGAIN, THIS IS JUST ME AS A