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  • Good afternoon, good morning, everybody.

  • Can you hear me now? Good.

  • I'm Aiko Doden, senior news commentator for NHK, Japan Broadcasting

  • Corporation, and I will be hosting today's session.

  • Thank you very much for coming to our session.

  • The topic of this session is Attracting the Best and Brightest.

  • As Asia becomes the center of growth for the global economy, we will first

  • examine how two major players, China and India, are trying to secure the

  • best talents.

  • And then look into wider impacts these efforts may have.

  • NHK will record this session for Asian Voices, a debate program on key global

  • issues. This will be broadcast to 120 countries

  • worldwide via NHK World. It will be shown six times, with the

  • first broadcast on September 25th from 02:10 UTC.

  • So please do join in.

  • The program can also be seen at that time on NHK World TV website or via the

  • NHK World iPhone application.

  • I did a bit of public relations for iPhone here.

  • Before we begin, may I remind you to turn off your mobile phones.

  • You are free to take photographs, but please make sure that the flashing

  • setting is off.

  • The session is recorded, as you can see there are cameras.

  • So please do stay in you seat and I will have to do my best to make this

  • discussion as engaging as possible so that you will choose to stay in your

  • seat.

  • I look forward to your contribution in making this discussion a meaningful

  • one.

  • We are almost ready to start the recording.

  • ...

  • Let me first introduce the panelists to you.

  • We have Dr. Mari Elka Pangestu,

  • the Minister of Trade for Indonesia. She is an internationally renowned

  • economist and former executive director of Indonesia's Center for Strategic

  • and International Studies. She joined the Yudhoyono cabinet in the

  • year 2004 and is now in her second term.

  • Next is Dr. Liu Jiren, who is chairman and CEO of the Neusoft Corporation,

  • China's biggest IT solutions and services company.

  • He studied at universities in China and the U.S., took a special interest

  • in computing, and then returned to China where he established his company

  • in 1991.

  • It quickly became a top Chinese hi-tech firm.

  • Next is Mr. Kris Gopalakrishnan, who is the CEO of Infosys Technologies, one of

  • the world's leading software development and IT consulting firms.

  • It's head office is in Bangalore in India, and the company employs over

  • 105,000 people in 23 countries.

  • Next to me is Professor Atsushi Seike, who is the president of Keio

  • University.

  • With a history of over 150 years, Keio was chosen as a key establishment in

  • the Japanese government efforts to attract more international students.

  • Professor Seika holds a PhD. in commerce and specialized in labor

  • economics.

  • So let me start with a China question.

  • In June this year, year 2010, China announced its first talent development

  • plan.

  • The plan suggests that China hopes to go beyond being seen as a world factory

  • with its vast supply of cheap labor. And I understand, one pillar of the

  • plan is to attract 2000 top-tier talents from abroad over the next 10

  • years. Dr. Liu, although it is just one pillar

  • in the bigger scheme, 2000 seems a bit modest for a country with a population

  • of 1.3 billion.

  • Yes.

  • A little bit confused. Two thousand, that means the top

  • scientists. It's not, if you look at the government

  • plan, they have very detailed framework.

  • It's not only for scientist, and also they like to have more talent working

  • in education sector, in manufacturing sector, even in social works.

  • So, it is a 10-year plan.

  • That plan tries to support the transformation from traditional Chinese

  • economic model to the new model. So if you look at the history in the

  • past 30 years, China's growth is driven by people.

  • So around 300 million people immigrate from rural areas to come to downtown,

  • to cities, to join manufacturing. Because of their contribution,

  • China makes a lot of things at very competitive price.

  • And also, that is a great, immigrate to changing what we call urbanization.

  • So like more and more people become citizen of cities.

  • So that makes China just like today. But if we look at those type of

  • business model, that is not sustainable.

  • So we consume a lot of natural resources.

  • So, energy we have a big problem.

  • Another big challenge about China is now, every year, we have six million

  • young peoplefrom universities. What is their job in the future?

  • So the other problem is economic issues and also, we say the stability

  • of society, that is another challenge. So government plan is to buy the

  • institute, the policy, this is made by government, to changing the structure

  • of the people. I mean get more talent.

  • Of course, to attract more talent, we send to study abroad, they can go back

  • to give more and more opportunity like in to enjoy, you know, new, to share

  • some growth as a China economy. That is their idea.

  • So I think after 10 years, the government have launched, today is 9

  • percent of educated people as working force.

  • It's after 10 years, their target is 20 percent of educated people to be as

  • working force, I mean higher education from university.

  • They have 100 percent government officer have a degree of university.

  • They have most of, you know, few to more than a thousand research institute

  • who is driven by talents from global wide.

  • And also they work on more and more foreign expert to get a job, to have

  • a work in China, so that (…) If I could intervene there, the part of

  • the current plan is to attract outstanding talents, I should say,

  • but what is the field that China is particularly interested in achieving

  • talent and improving the strength?

  • Okay. I think is that, of course, to attract

  • the talent is first the, every people, they hardly have gotten opportunities.

  • But today's China, if you look at today, more and more Chinese are just

  • like myself. Twenty years, I study U.S.

  • I go back, but most of my classmates still working in the United States.

  • Because at that time, there is no opportunity.

  • But today, the institute plan, and I cannot say attract more talent to go

  • back. I can say China attract people, they go

  • back. Just like in India.

  • More Indian, we call, talent mortality. They're just like a tadpole,

  • they're moving determined by opportunity. That is why the government, I think

  • the purpose is simple, because, yeah. Would you or China be confident that

  • the top-tier talents from abroad, as you said, will choose to come to China?

  • People can say that China had different degrees of opening up to the

  • world. It tended to be varied from time to

  • time.

  • I don't think China now is looked at as an economic power and this country

  • is still a developing country, and so most of the people that come to China,

  • they see Shenzhen, Beijing, Shanghai, they say that is developed country.

  • But if you drive 100 kilometer away, they say that is another world, like 20

  • years or 30 years before in China. But, that is opportunity.

  • That is why talent to like to say how long?

  • What is space for them to working here? I think the driving force in the

  • future is, one, multinational company. They attract more and more Chinese,

  • they study abroad. Send him to go back to working here.

  • That is one of big volume. Secondly, they come back, they want to

  • start up their own private company. So more and more high-tech company

  • is a startup by Chinese who have experience working in multinational

  • company or studying in the United States.

  • And Mr. Gopalakrishnan, you must be tired of people asking questions

  • whether it's China versus India. But if China succeeds in attracting the

  • best and brightest, will that show its effects to India?

  • No, I believe that there is space for both the countries to grow, which

  • is actually beneficial to everyone.

  • India will take its own trajectory of growth.

  • For example, right now, India has grown primarily on top of growth of services

  • sector. More than 50 percent of the economy

  • is service driven today. It's an interesting differentiation of

  • India in the sense that without getting into manufacturing, India has developed

  • a good services economy.

  • So India will look at attracting the best talent in two ways.

  • One, because of the growth of the economy, it attracts investment,

  • it attracts businesses, it attracts people to come back to the country.

  • And if the right environment is provided for entrepreneurship,

  • for businesses to flourish, for innovation to happen, definitely, you know,

  • the country will attract the right talent. The second way Indian,

  • especially Indian businesses would benefit is by recruiting people globally, either to

  • work in their operations around the world, or to work in India, you know,

  • to come back and work in India. We are having a larger and larger

  • number of non-Indians coming to India and working in India.

  • Now, if you look at our story itself, InfoSys itself, we have a significant

  • presence in China, in Eastern Europe, in South and Latin America,

  • in Philippines, etc. In China, we have 2600 people.

  • So we are actually benefitting from a growing educated population in China,

  • which wants to work for global companies.

  • So we're benefitting from that and we've grown quite heavily in China,

  • 2600 people. So we see this as a way for us to take

  • advantage of the creativeness of India, take advantage of growth in different

  • parts of the world, and the ability to

  • attract the right talent. We have to make sure that we create

  • the right environment, both in India as well as enforcer for these people to do

  • well. And in the end, IT industry,

  • including yourself, your company, is reaching out for Chinese talents as you have said.

  • Yes. So, you know, we have had good

  • experience growing our center in China. As I said, we have 2600 people.

  • What we look for in attracting people is, one,

  • learnability. You know, ability to learn, because today's environment, you know changes

  • are constant. Change is happening faster and faster,

  • so you have to have employees who can learn very fast.

  • Second is problem solving skills. You know, an attitude to life,

  • when you see a problem, you don't feel threatened.

  • You don't feel challenges, you feel that it is interesting problem to

  • solve. It is an optimistic kind of attitude.

  • And the third, because they are in IT industry, a passion for technology,

  • passion for information technology and things like that.

  • And we can find such people anywhere in the world, and that's what we look

  • for when we look for employees.

  • I see. So do you think this so called

  • flattening of the global economy has a role there?

  • That with the spread of the internet, all countries can compete as he called,

  • and being a bright boy in that remote part of India will not be

  • a disadvantage. How do you think does a flat world

  • phenomenon or ideas have affected the corporate structures and human

  • resources struggle?

  • So in one sense, yes. If you have access to internet, if you

  • have access to education, you can participate in the globalization,

  • you can participate in the opportunities that are provided.

  • But there is still a large population.

  • So for example in India, about 300 million people are still illiterate.

  • So, the challenge is to make sure that they have access to internet, they have

  • access with education. They can participate in globalization,

  • etc. And how soon can you make that access

  • available to them. Because today, because of television,

  • they see what they're missing.

  • So they know what they want and how can you get that access to them as

  • quickly as possible. So we need to make sure that they have

  • access to education, they have access to capital, or you know,

  • entrepreneurship is possible.

  • And Dr. Pangestu, Indonesia because of its geopolitical location, must be

  • feeling China's impact or India's impact on Asian markets.

  • You have once spoken about the need for Indonesia to avoid direct

  • competition with China and find niche markets.

  • What would that be, do you think?

  • Yeah, our strategy in terms of having to compete with two large emerging

  • economies as our neighbors is to differentiate, do product

  • differentiation, find the niche that is in line with our talent.

  • So for instance, China as the factory of the world has a large pool of very

  • low cost labor producing mass-produced goods.

  • So we do not compete head on in that area.

  • We try to find a niche where we move up the more medium and higher end of any

  • of the manufacturing value added chain, and we try to promote the fact that we

  • do have low cost, not just low cost labor, but also low cost and skilled,

  • as well as creative labor force.

  • And one of the things we have found when we do comparisons with,

  • especially with regard to human resources, between Indonesia, China and, I'd say,

  • Vietnam, is that Indonesian labor force has a low turnover rate.

  • So in any of these low cost factories making garments, footwear, we have

  • a one percent turnover rate, whereas in China or Vietnam, it's like anything

  • between eight to ten percent. And that's partly because in China,

  • you are relying on migrant labor who are moving,

  • yeah. They are coming from the rural areas, coming into the urban areas.

  • Whereas in Indonesia, the labor tends to live where the factory is and that's

  • part of the reason for the low turnover rate.

  • And that's seen as a positive, and by going medium-higher end, we also try to

  • promote, that is not just low cost, but also low cost, skilled, and creative

  • labor force as well as better educated, and we have a demographic dividend on

  • our side compared at least with China. Maybe not with India, but with China,

  • because we have, 50 percent of our population is below 29 years old and we

  • will have a demographic dividend where the young, the dependents are less than

  • the productive labor at least for another 10 to 15 years.

  • Whereas China, I think, the turnaround will happen in another five years.

  • And I think the last thing we try to do is with respect to India, you know,

  • India is very strong with IT.

  • The IT services sector is the other major area that developing countries

  • should get into. We are not strong in IT, but we think

  • we are strong in other areas in the services sector, such as design,

  • ammunition, and we have already begun to do outsourcing for this kind of

  • work. And this is, I think, it's just

  • beginning, but this is the future for Indonesia and I think the other way to

  • not compete with China and India is to collaborate with China and India,

  • and one of the collaborations that's going to be signed very soon is we're going

  • to collaborate on an animation feature film on Xianghua with one of the

  • Chinese companies, and also with CCTV. So, we think that's very exciting.

  • So, you know, don't just compete, collaborate where, you have different

  • specializations and skills and with internet, with, you know,

  • connectivity, you can be anywhere in the world and be working together on a project for China

  • market, Indonesia market, India market.

  • So you see this as an opportunity? Yes, I think it's an opportunity that

  • we should really explore more with, you know, human resources with different

  • skills and talents, and connectivity bringing us together.

  • And would I be right in saying that Indonesia, rather than pursuing talents

  • abroad, you are trying to utilize what you have within, the talents within?

  • Yeah. We try to grow the talent within our

  • own country and we have allocated 20 percent of our budget for education.

  • And in the latest global competitiveness index of the World

  • Economic Forum, we actually went up by 10 rankings and one of the reasons was

  • improved education, especially for primary level education and part of

  • this 20 percent allocation for education was used to raise teachers'

  • salaries. So teachers are now earning, in the

  • public schools, are earning almost the same as in the private schools.

  • Because that was, previously, all the good teachers would go to the private

  • school and not to the public schools, but we need to do more work on the

  • higher level education, on innovation, on the technology development, ICT,

  • and so on. That's the next step that we will

  • address. And you represent the public sector,

  • the government. There is a role that the public

  • sector, the government, can play in encouraging that trend.

  • Yes, uh-huh. Professor Seike, what is your reaction

  • to the discussion so far. I mean Japan was Asia's first

  • developed country and enjoyed a period of high economic growth.

  • From such viewpoint, how do you view China and India's hunt to secure

  • talent?

  • Well I think, although China and India are still, you know, enjoying its

  • competitive power from a lot of labor and mass production.

  • But, sort of you know, the center of gravity of competition is certainly

  • shifting towards creating new value added by, you know, highly talented

  • people even in India and China.

  • And because of that, you know, they have demand for highly talented people

  • who can create new value added is now growing certainly.

  • And as I said, of course, Japan has experienced the same process of

  • economic development.

  • However, I think in the case of Japan,

  • most of the companies, particularly you know, national companies, tended to

  • train or cultivate these, you know, highly talented workforce within the

  • company instead of seeking them from outside.

  • However, in case of today's China and India, mainly due to the new IT

  • technology, you know the seed of economic growth is more rapid than the

  • case of the first Japanese experience. And of course, you know, the potential

  • size of an economy itself, themselves, are larger in India and China.

  • So you know, they tend to rush to recruit already established,

  • highly talented people, both from domestic and international labor market.

  • Oh, so that might be a challenge for Japan in a sense.

  • To some extent,

  • yes. Mr. Gopalakrishnan just commented on his definition of the source of talent

  • that the company seeks.

  • I presume the definition of the best and brightest is evolving as the

  • economy evolves.

  • Who are the best and brightest people that you seek?

  • You mean, what is the (…) What is the definition of the talented

  • people or the talent that you are looking for?

  • How is the talent before in this country, the definition of talent

  • is certification of a university.

  • But I don't think that is right,

  • and you may look at today's students and it's the only thing, 15 percent of

  • graduate student, graduate from this university in China, can meet that

  • standard of talent requirement for multinational company working in China.

  • The reason is, we need talent who can speak good English, but now we have

  • a foreign language university, they are very good in English.

  • But they also need people who understand communication.

  • But 100 percent of that people, that people don't understand communication.

  • So they made the people understand the governance of company and business

  • management. They need how to approach the market in

  • different regions, or those kinds of purpose that they say,

  • university, really, I don't think that is only issues of China.

  • Global wide, university needs very much reform to meet the demand of economic

  • growth, especially from the industry sector.

  • So that is a big gate.

  • You know, the companies like InfoSys and NeuSoft, InfoSys have 100,000 more

  • employees. We have 18,000 employees.

  • If every year, we recruit a few thousand people, if we use our own

  • money to train that people one year,

  • that may be a 10 percent off our profit.

  • But if you don't train that people, they cannot meet, may not qualify to

  • work for you. Some you need to train two years, so I

  • think now, how to build a new kind of, you know, platform, like education

  • organization should be very close cooperation with the industry.

  • So like, they know what is the demand

  • from the marketplace. I always make a joke.

  • Today, professor got a job is because of university student, but the

  • professor never thinking about what is the job of a student.

  • So they got jobs because of the student come to university, to keep

  • this stable income, everything here. But if you think, what is the demand,

  • what kinds of skills are needed? Most of professor maybe not,

  • because (….). But you are a professor yourself?

  • I was a professor.

  • You know, I was a professor before.

  • Now I switch to businessman. I can understand by my personal,

  • I'm teaching in the past, I can say only 20 percent of things I teach is available

  • for business.

  • But I'm still teaching because there is some framework, there is some

  • design, by some bureau, by a ministry of education.

  • So they have some kind of thing. It's a fully, like a professor just to

  • follow up their idea. But you know, only few people, so,

  • to make those kinds of designs. But today, if we say that people

  • is indeed, very much it gets worse, so that should be checked.

  • This is challenging to universities, I think it's (…)

  • And NeuSoft staff have in-house a large educational facility.

  • What is it like in your university? Yeah, we have.

  • I tried to solve the problem in the past and saw then the pure use of our

  • own money.

  • We set up our private university.

  • Now 25,000 student in NeuSoft University only for IT,

  • information system. We are very much enjoy of that.

  • All the courses are designed by us and they will learn something we know that

  • is needed. So that makes our student after the

  • graduate, they can get high-paying job because we know what is high payment,

  • what is shortage of the talent. So also, that is good for NeuSoft.

  • We train the people, you know, university.

  • Every year, we recruit some percentage of our people working for us, only one

  • or two months to train him understand all this NeuSoft.

  • That is enough.

  • So university is a non-profit center. But we make the profit by dividing the

  • people. So it's very exciting.

  • Educational institution is part of a so-called supply chain of good source

  • of talent. I think that is the ecosystem.

  • If you look at NeuSoft have many multinational company work with

  • NeuSoft. It's not because of NeuSoft.

  • This is because NeuSoft have a human resources development platform.

  • We share this platform with all our party.

  • They join, they work together with NeuSoft.

  • At the same time, we develop in there. So, I think that is a big change in

  • the future, you know, just like Kris talking this morning.

  • The people in passing learn one skill.

  • They harbor it for whole their life. They can just for, you've got a job

  • that's stable. Now, the learning university maybe

  • only for five years, six years. People change the job in 20 years,

  • 30 years, maybe five times to six times.

  • What kind of system has support people to continue to learn?

  • Let me ask Mr. Gopalakrishnan, because InfoSys does have a large training

  • facility as well, and you must share views with Dr. Liu.

  • Yes.

  • We have started any university focused on external education.

  • Our corporate university is focused on training our own employees.

  • This year, we will be recruiting 36,000 people.

  • One in one year.

  • Out of that, about 22,000 to 23,000 people are at the entry level straight

  • out of college. So we have to make sure that we bridge

  • the gap between what the university system teaches them to what the

  • industry requires, and bridging the gap.

  • And that is what our entry level education tries to do.

  • so when a person joins or when an employee joins, we give them five

  • months of training in our corporate university.

  • At any given point of time, we can train more than 10,000 people in the

  • corporate university.

  • And we spend 4 percent of our revenues, which is almost $200 million

  • every year on education and training.

  • Over and above this, we budget 10 days of continuing education on an ongoing

  • basis so that we can help that employee in their career progression.

  • Because an employee who joins at the entry level will progress to become

  • a manager, will progress to become a leader within the company, and everyone

  • of those transitions must be with training.

  • So there is a business related training to teach them about industry,

  • then there is managerial training to teach them about managing people,

  • managing relationships, managing teams, managing customers, and there is lastly, how do

  • you run an organization, how do you run a business, that's a leadership

  • training, so that we can internally grow the future leaders of the company.

  • So that's a comprehensive program we have.

  • I'm sure Professor Seike is dying to speak up at this levelto challenge

  • the utility of the (…) No, no,

  • no. I'm not challenging. I think…I myself is read by

  • economists, so I still believe that as far, you know, working ability,

  • working skill is concerned, I think on the job training is the most important,

  • you know, school for you to gain the ability.

  • However, you know, universities or other schools will be able to provide

  • a good platform for the people to get, you know, good on the job training.

  • So I think there will be a glowing opportunity and possibility for

  • collaboration to train universities and the business world to foster this

  • talent input. Yeah.

  • Because for a country like Japan where I understand, one out of four people

  • are already over 65 years old, we are a seriously aging society.

  • So in order to cope with the aging society, we need to have more,

  • you know, people working longer than, you know, comingAnd having that sense

  • also, you know, we need to have a sort of a retraining program for our middle

  • aged people to continue work beyond their current retirement age.

  • So you know, training, education, you know, retraining, re-education, to be

  • extremely important for any

  • And Dr. Pangestu, I believe in educating women as talent, as one of

  • the best and brightest that does count in this formula.

  • Oh definitely. I think in today's age, this gender

  • bias should no longer be there.

  • The best and brightest is just the best and brightest, whether they're

  • women or men, and we have seen studies in our university where, say 20 years

  • ago, girls actually underperformed academically.

  • The main reason is so that they can get a husband.

  • This is shown in the survey. And even myself, I did end up doing

  • a PhD, but my mother told me, "I don't want you to do PhD, you'll never get

  • married", you know. So there was this bias that, you know,

  • that's all gone. Now, all the girls are doing same,

  • similarly with wives, even better. Sounds very familiar.

  • Yeah? And in recruitment, you know, we found

  • in public service recruitment, once we opened it up more merit-based,

  • more than 50 percent are women, you know, at the first entry level.

  • And even myself, now I've been in government for six years, you know,

  • I don't look at gender. I just look for the best and the

  • brightest. I think 30 percent of my top and middle

  • level management within my ministry are women.

  • And this is somewhat of a, if you like, revolution.

  • So I think attracting and retaining best talent must mean providing the

  • right kind of conducive environment. And I think one of the innovations

  • that we did as a government coming in, in 2004, our president, I guess he

  • experimented. By bringing in professionals,

  • bringing in some people with business background, some of course, because we

  • are a democracy, we have to also bring in people from the political parties.

  • But political parties, we also tried to find the more the professionals.

  • So the question out there is, how do you retain, you need to have effective

  • government policy, not just companies having good talent.

  • You must have good talent in government to have effective government

  • policies.

  • Attracting professionals, attracting business people to run government

  • policy. It's very challenging.

  • Now, I've been there for six years. You come in because you come and take

  • a huge pay cut. You come in, okay I'm going to change,

  • I'm going to do reforms. And then you sit there and then you're

  • faced with the bureaucracy, which doesn't move.

  • Yeah. So the next step that must go along

  • with that to retain good talent at the top level as well as at the middle

  • and lower level is bureaucratic reform.

  • And here is where, you know, we do actively go out to recruit to the

  • universities and sell. You know, you have to sell your

  • ministry. Why would you want to work for my

  • ministry? Because A, B, C, D, E, and then once

  • they come in, we will train you, we will send you for higher education,

  • graduate training, skills training.

  • But your place in the ministry as you go up in the career path also has to be

  • made clear. And finally, very important,

  • remuneration. This is something that's work in

  • progress in Indonesia, where for the same level of bureaucracy, you know,

  • they have different levels. You can have different wages depending

  • on the type of work you are in. So someone working in the tax office

  • will earn more than someone in my ministry, just because it's a higher

  • risk, more burden in the work and so on.

  • So more merit based and more remuneration based on performance as

  • well as on job description. This is something very revolutionary

  • in a bureaucracy, but this is needed, I think if you want to not just attract,

  • but retain good talent in government. Otherwise, it's not just companies

  • that need to have good talent. Governments need to have good talent.

  • Thank you. For Mr. Gopalakrishnan, I think the

  • same principle might apply to private sector as well.

  • The question here is how to retain the talent that you have acquired.

  • It is tempting to assume that a high salary and good working conditions are

  • the only key incentives. Is this true?

  • How would you define the incentives? No, you will have to look at a broader

  • set of incentives, compensation and salary is very important.

  • You know, there has to be a minimum level, but ability to work with peers

  • whom you respect, you know, the peer group is important.

  • And open and conducive work environment is very, very important,

  • a non-hierarchical, especially with today's youth.

  • Ability to learn and improve their own knowledge base and ability to improve

  • their employability, because that is again very important.

  • Sometimes, you know, a purpose in life and a purpose and that they are

  • associated with the business itself. You know, what kind of business,

  • so sometimes purpose is very, very important when you want to attract

  • people in the government, etc. because of the larger good you are able

  • to bring about changing society, etc. So there are multiple things you need

  • to cater for in today's world.

  • Salary is just one component.

  • I see. And Dr. Liu, you have said before that

  • the appeal of a firm is more than financial.

  • It seems that many of the cultivated, the young engineers in the Chinese IT

  • industry often being lured away by western firms, with often offers that

  • are difficult to resist.

  • What needs to be done to stop those engineers or scientists from leaving?

  • I think my personal experience is, how to say, that you learn in a working

  • environment.

  • Now the culture, of vision, of value

  • is more important than the money.

  • And, so in NeuSoft in the past 19 years, we have a very, very low

  • attrition rate especially for you to achieve…, I mean the problem,

  • a thousand, two thousand people.

  • The reason is, firstly, we have worry, the game of worry or trust.

  • So meaning, we give him power, then work for us, but they just like an

  • individual startup company.

  • They have their financial power. They can recruit their resources

  • and people. They can give a proposal to divide

  • and spend some money for RnD, and also give him more space.

  • Sometimes, you give him a difficulty more difficulty, you can pay less.

  • So that is kind of a balance. So that means the people enjoy those

  • kind of a challenge.

  • Another issue for me is the challenge of the country, difference of aging.

  • Maybe a little bit of difference. So you can all say, in Beijing,

  • you use Beijing's policy to say the people invest of China.

  • Because the living standard environment is totally different.

  • For me, the NeuSoft now, we have operations in Germany,

  • Romania, Finland, Middle East. For Europe, I have so may

  • communications with our employees. It think they are much more sensitive,

  • you know, holiday time, than the money.

  • So that means you have to give this, if you make a free job, you can have

  • a double holiday, then you pay double salary.

  • So that means it's very different,

  • even all the Chinese, we need to learn much, need to focus on, we're a micro,

  • you know, arrangement, not very much general.

  • And what about Japan, Professor Seike? I think the situation is also the same.

  • I mean, you know, creative people and high-caliber professionals can still

  • like to have moreof freedom and working hours and working places.

  • And really add one thing,

  • particularly for very creative people, or you know, high-caliber professionals, I think

  • they tend to like to have their own credit for the work they have done.

  • Because for a professional or for creative people, you know, sort of

  • personal, their, his or her personal brand is more important than company

  • brand. So they tend to love to have their own

  • credit for the work they have done.

  • And would regards to Japanese government or Japanese academic

  • institutions, what further efforts do they need to make, to first secure

  • talents and then retain them?

  • Well, first of all, for the Japanese business, although, you know,

  • recently, some companies started recruiting for example, you know, foreign talents

  • and international student, and also, you know, the Japanese government is now

  • trying attract talented international students to take into Japan.

  • But, maybe I think we feel Japan is a little bit late to attract these high

  • talented manpower. So in order to attract these highly

  • talented people, we need to provide more attractive package.

  • And for example, you know, for the Japanese company, you know, because of

  • sort of seniority that the wage is structured, they tend to pay lower

  • wages for younger people.

  • And these, you know, relatively lower wages are not so attractive, you know,

  • young, brilliant people,

  • particularly if they have offer from much, much attractive offer from Chinese

  • and Indian companies. So maybe, in order to attract or

  • retain these young, talented people, maybe to some extent, the Japanese

  • business have to devise it, sort of evolve the system as a whole.

  • So the society as a whole has to evolveTo some extent, of course it takes time.

  • We are almost coming to the end of our discussion and I would like to ask you

  • all a final question.

  • As we have seen, the hunt for human resources depends pretty much on how

  • attractive your offer is, not only in financial terms, but as an opportunity,

  • and how attractive the working environment is and the leadership,

  • and if the future looks promising if he or she decides to take that path.

  • To attract the best and brightest,

  • what is your vision of the growth model, and your ideal philosophy in

  • doing your business? May I start with Mr. Gopalakrishnan,

  • what growth model are you considering? You have said that the business in the

  • emerging market needs to behave properly as well.

  • If you look at the broader definition of sustainability, sustainability of

  • business must include a respect for society, a holistic development of the

  • business in harmony with society, and the leadership must behave in a way,

  • or must conduct themselves in a way that they get the respect of the employees,

  • the get the respect of the society in

  • which they operate. I mean that is very, very important in

  • today's world, and many employees look up to this leadership for their own

  • career progression, their own vision of the future and things like that.

  • So that's why it is important for the leadership to conduct themselves

  • appropriately.

  • You know, in today's world, actually CEOs are losing respect in some sense

  • and they have to regain that respect in the way in which they conduct

  • themselves.

  • And Dr. Liu, what will the future look like for your firm?

  • Will it become even more global or what do you further seek to accomplish?

  • I think a key point is the people. The people is concomitants of NeuSoft

  • in the future. So our strategy is to build

  • a leadership in…, not only by Chinese. So we need to borrow more people from

  • overseas, from Europe, from United States, from Middle East.

  • So from the place, which are for marking in there, and also in our

  • board, in company governance, we will like more, the people is from all sides

  • to join us because that gave us more global vision.

  • So today, if you look at opportunity,

  • the people is very much mobility.

  • So we can easily take people from manufacturing of cars,

  • quality assurance from Japan, innovation from the U.S.

  • For our automotive mobile phone, we got people from Germany, from Finland.

  • So also, if comparing the cost, I don't think that China is only competing in

  • cost. So even, you know, we have our person

  • in Romania, I say Romania cost is the same as China now in the software

  • business. So the worries of life has a lot of

  • opportunity for us, so find the right people.

  • Right people doesn't mean the Chinese people.

  • So we need to learn, to build our trust, to line in to, say, you know,

  • the company can also give him excellent working environment for everybody who

  • joins NeuSoft.

  • Dr. Pangestu, how well Indonesia position itself in the Asian economy

  • and the global economy, what is your vision?

  • My vision is that I think the key is always the human resources and the

  • people.

  • And I totally agree with Dr. Liu just then who said that basically, the old

  • way of education where you teach somebody one skill and they have that

  • skill for the rest of their life working is no longer viable in today's

  • globalized world. So you have to change the way you

  • undertake your education.

  • They have to be creative, they have to be flexible.

  • They have to know how to change and adapt to different situations.

  • So we are spending a lot of our resources in terms of the education

  • budget to improve the primary education, we start with the primary

  • education. And we're developing what we call the

  • creative industries, which is very much, you know, on the mind.

  • You know, your main resource is your mind and how innovative and how

  • creative we can be, and that requires both a curriculum change and the way

  • teachers teach.

  • Not rote learning, but you know, thinking, thinking out of the box

  • and teaching creativity.

  • And part of the education budget we will also spend on sending our best

  • and brightest abroad. We have a scholarship fund that we

  • have set up within the education budget, which will send the best

  • and brightest abroad, because we also need to learn from outside.

  • So how do you go from efficiency-driven economy to

  • innovation-driven economy? I'ts your human resources, it's your

  • technology or readiness, it's your research and development, it's your

  • innovation. I think, you know, that's what we need

  • to develop in the next five to ten years ahead.

  • And we also need to have effective leadership within the government.

  • So we need to retain a track and continues to retain talent within the

  • government, both at the top level as well as at the working level.

  • And at the top level, I think how much people like me who come out from

  • non-government coming in as professionals, succeed in undertaking

  • reforms is going to be key. So bureaucratic reform is a key part

  • of it.

  • I myself, I'm the trade minister. I had a colleague who was also a woman

  • in the Finance Ministry position.

  • I think role modeling, you know, in terms of where would the younger people

  • strive to role modeling, such as the gentleman here to, is also very

  • important. I can be there, I can reach there.

  • That's also a very important aspect, I think.

  • So you are certainly charged with a very important mission.

  • And finally, Professor Seike, how will the race for international talent

  • protect the Asian countries, including Japan and the world, and what future do

  • you foresee?

  • Well, of course you know, the international mobility of highly

  • talented people is growing and opportunity is expanding beyond the

  • countries borders. So those not only Asian countries,

  • but also European and American countries are highly affected.

  • I think in the short-run, you can sort of, you know, head hunt or attract

  • highly talented people by offering good financial incentives.

  • But in the long run, if you scramble, if you continue scrambling for highly

  • talented people, we have to cultivating or training new ones.

  • You know, the supply of these talented people will be depleted sooner or

  • later, so we need to have some,

  • you know, collaborative schemes in which we will be able to train for studies

  • highly talented people. And of course, you know,

  • universities should be involved in that scheme. So I really love to see, you know,

  • Asian countries, including China, India, Indonesia, and of course Japan,

  • will offer the world some sort of Asian model of collaboration for developing

  • human capital and developing the best and brightest.

  • Yeah. That's my hope.

  • Thank you.

  • I think we have some time for questions and answers.

  • If you could raise your hand and identify yourself, and also articulate

  • to who that question is directed to. I will be happy to take perhaps one or

  • two.

  • Please raise your hand.

  • I am aware we are close to lunch time, but questions welcome.

  • A gentleman in the front row.

  • My name is Orioso Abe, I'm from Kyoto University, at the same time I'm

  • working for theFoundation, which is essentially likeFoundation to help

  • management accounting researchers doing their jobs.

  • And my question concerns the overall values, missions, visions, and purely

  • from the panelists', you know, speeches and discussion, I thought that values,

  • missions, and visions, or cultures seem to be a very important element of

  • attracting the best and brightest. At the time, not only attracting

  • those, but also cultivating those people, potential candidate people.

  • So I would like to know your opinions about how much that element affects

  • your businesses? Who would you like to address that

  • question? Uhm, to those, particularly to

  • Professor Liu Jiren, Mr. Jiren, but also to the other panelists, as well

  • as, especially to Professor Seike, whether that kind of stuff can be

  • taught at the university or is that something redundant that we shouldn't

  • talk at the university level.

  • And any more questions? I think I should take questions

  • and then ask the panelists to answer in one go.

  • Any hands?

  • Lady in the back,

  • please. Hello, my name is Maura O'Connor. I am the chairman of the Los Angeles

  • County Economic Development Corporation, representing what would

  • the 17th national largest economy, if we were a nation.

  • I would like to ask the gentlemen on the panel to address what,

  • because we've heard from Ms. Pangestu, what steps culturally they think are needed

  • in order to encourage the movement into management of women in their particular

  • cultures and would be interested in learning, because that is also

  • a challenge we face. Thank you.

  • We heard two question from the audience, and the first question was

  • directed to Dr. Liu and Professor Seike for the… , and the second question from

  • the lady in the back was about integrating women into the management,

  • and that question was addressed particularly to the men panelists on

  • the panel. So anybody ready to answer the

  • question? Dr. Liu?

  • I think the value, the mission is really, really very, very important.

  • And especially when the company gets bigger and bigger and management

  • executives, you have no chance to dialogue with each of the individuals.

  • So, given every people the common sense, the common party dream,

  • that every shares same dream, that is very, very important.

  • Like NeuSoft value, we have every people that keep a symphony.

  • That means if you want to talking something direct report.

  • Teamwork, you need to help each other first.

  • So that means, when you give a job to anybody, you need a… So application

  • and, you know, first you need to give and take something.

  • And so, that is, you know, I think the value sometimes, culture is not very

  • comprehensive. It is very, very simple, but those

  • simple thing is very, very hard to implementation.

  • And for us, of course, every newcomer when they join the company, we have

  • a book for them to read, we have a video and promotion program, and then we have

  • our special organization we call Branding and Culture Center.

  • That is, that became organization to promote the value and mission

  • and culture, so that everybody, everyday, they can smell what is the culture

  • needs. And so, that is a very,

  • very difficulty, but you must do this, otherwise, the people, you lose their

  • direction.

  • And the second question about the integrating women into the management,

  • what steps to be taken to have more women into the management.

  • Women? We are a very example in NeuSoft.

  • Women in NeuSoft is very possible.

  • And we have a CGO, CKO, CFO, and chair for marketing office, all women.

  • So they are really good, especially in software business.

  • You know, woman is very, very detailed

  • and especially in CFO.

  • I recommend you CFO, woman as CFO is best.

  • The men and money, just like managers, they have own financial.

  • It's a very, very, you know, but of course sometimes, it is a challenge.

  • They don't spend the money for RnD. That is the challenge.

  • So, but I think that women in general is very much equal in executive

  • management and in professional,

  • and it's good, so we are enjoying 40 percent of certified personnel employee

  • of NeuSoft is women.

  • I see, and then please go on to answer the women and the management.

  • Uhm, 33 percent of our employees are also women.

  • Of course, there is equal opportunity for women employees to rise up.

  • But we have to make sure that every single policy, every single step we

  • take is, you know, is evaluated based on a common framework, and that we do

  • to make sure that we encourage all people to progress within management.

  • At senior management, there is a challenge today, but over time,

  • we believe we will be able to overcome. Because 10 years back, the percentage

  • of women was 18 percent. We have brought it to 33 percent.

  • So we have come a long way, but we have some ways to go.

  • On vision and values, I strongly believe that the leadership must

  • commit, leadership must walk the talk,

  • you know, the best example of leadership by example itself.

  • And so, what we do and enforce this is as part of the leadership training,

  • I am also requested or required to teach leadership values, ethics,

  • etc. So leaders themselves teach these things.

  • And Professore Seike, two questions in one go.

  • Yes. Well, I think value and missions are

  • very important to attract people. And I think you should distinguish

  • these values and missions of, you know, institutions, say a company, and the

  • professions.

  • And I think, you know, for creative people, or you know, high caliber

  • professionals, I think they are more loyal to their own profession rather

  • than institutions they are belonging to.

  • So I think if you really attract these people, again I said you need to pay

  • respect for their own profession. And they want to have their credit for

  • the work they have done, rather than, you know, the company's credit.

  • So, for the first question, value and mission is important, but you know,

  • highly talented people (…) And quickly,

  • (…) Oh sorry, sorry. Women issues, of course you know,

  • eventually you know, market power pressure will solve that problem.

  • You know, unless you know certain business will not be able to utilize

  • highly talented women's power, this company will lose competitive power in

  • the market. But before that, there'll be certain

  • kind of policy incentives to increase, you know, for example, the proportion

  • of the number of female managers within a company should be necessary.

  • Thank you. Thank you very much.

  • It seems that the ability to attract the best and brightest may depend

  • a great deal on the growing power of a nation and its industries.

  • The hunt for talent we discussed today will no doubt have the potential to

  • affect the world economic growth. And so for that reason, this is an

  • issue that continues to demand closest attention.

  • Thank you very much for being with us today.

  • That's it for Asian Voices from Tianjin.

  • Please join us again next time and let's give a big applause to our

  • panelists. Thank you very much.

Good afternoon, good morning, everybody.

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天津2010--(電視辯論會NHK)吸引最優秀的人和最優秀的人。 (Tianjin 2010 - (TV Debate NHK) Attracting the Best and Brightest)

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    孫子文 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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