is the president of the United States.

來自美國總統

People are even saying that he may be willing

人們甚至猜說他很樂意

to prepare initiatives to break up Amazon

研擬草案防止亞馬遜壟斷

because it's too big, it's too successful,

亞馬遜規模過大，事業過於成功

it's too dominant in too many sectors,

而且整合不同行業進行集中權力於一身

or for varied other reasons.

其他還有許多批評的理由

First of all, is this scenario of a break up something

首先，對於未來要求切割權力的可能情況

that you take seriously, or you think it's just a fantasy?

你是否視為嚴重樣態或是樂觀看待

- For me, again this is one those things where

我認為與其抱持反對想法

you know, I focus on, and ask our teams

我對自己以及我的團隊

to focus on what we can control.

都是要求針對可控制範圍處理即可

And, I expect, whether it's the current US administration

而且我也料想得到，不論是美國行政部門

or any other government agency anywhere in the world,

或是其他國家的政府部門皆認為

Amazon is now a large corporation,

亞馬遜目前是頗具規模的集團

and I expect us to be scrutinized.

我預期政府會嚴加查核

We should be scrutinized.

而我們也確實應該接受查核規範

I think all large institutions should be scrutinized

我認為任何大規模的機構皆應該接受仔細查核

and examined.

也需要定期檢視

It's reasonable.

這是合理規範

And, what's, you know, one thing to note about us

眾所皆知，亞馬遜集團

is that we have, we have gotten big in absolute terms

擴大公司規模

only very recently, so we've always been growing fast

也是最近的事情，因此按照比例來說我們成長的幅度

in percentage terms, but in 2010, just eight years ago,

非常之快速，但 2010 年，也就是 8 年前

we had 30,000 employees.

我們只有 3 萬名員工

So, in the last eight years we've gone from 30,000 employees

8 年前我們從 3 萬名員工

to 560,000 employees.

增加至 56 萬名員工

So for us, you know, in my mind, I'm still delivering

對於我們來說，至少在我心中，我還是親自

the packages to the post office myself.

去郵局投遞包裹

You see what I'm saying?

你了解我的意思嗎？

I still have all the memories of, you know,

我永遠忘不了以前的時光

hoping one day we could afford a forklift.

那時我們總希望有一天可以買得起搬運貨物的堆高機

And, obviously that's, my intellectual brain knows

雖然很顯然地，我的理智非常清楚

that's just not the case anymore.

我們已經不需要再煩惱這種事情

We have 560,000 employees all over the world

我們擁有 56 萬名員工，他們來自世界各地

and I know we should be scrutinized,

我清楚知道我們必須接受檢驗

and I think it's true, a big government institution

我認為是對的，政府機構

should be scrutinized, a big non profit institution

必須接受檢驗，大型非營利組織

should be scrutinized, big universities should

必須接受檢驗，大專院校必須

be scrutinized, it just makes sense.

接受檢驗，這是合理的事情

And that, by the way, is why the work

這也是華盛頓郵報

that The Washington Post and other great newspapers

以及其他質報正在做的工作

around the world do is so important,

他們所做的工作是如此重要

because they are often the ones doing

因為大多時候他們都是

that initial scrutiny even before the government agencies do

最先開始進行查驗的工作，甚至早於政府機關

But in a way the general sentiment towards

但某程度上，社會大眾對於

the big, innovative tech companies has changed.

巨大的創新科技產業已經改觀

I mean, Facebook, Google, Apple, Amazon,

我指的是臉書、谷歌、蘋果以及亞馬遜

they used to be seen as the nice guys in T shirts

以前皆被視為只是印在 T 恤上

that are saving the world, and now they are

保護地球的好好先生，但現在

sometimes portrayed as the kind of evil of the world.

有時卻被描繪成世界之惡

And the debate about the big four or the big five,

對於科技界四大集團或是五大集團的爭議

if The Economist is suggesting a split up

倘若經濟學人建議這些集團巨頭必須分散權力

other powerful people like George Soros

美國金融巨頭索倫斯等掌握影響力的人士

are giving speeches in Davos,

正在賓州達沃斯演講

the EU Commission is taking pretty tough positions here.

歐盟執委會在這件事情採取強硬的態度

Do you think that there is a change

你認為社會大眾

in mindset in the society?

對於這件事情的想法有某程度上的改變嗎？

And what should the big tech companies,

另外，你認為科技巨頭

what should Amazon learn from that or do with that?

或是亞馬遜如何應對呢？

I think, I do sense, I mean, I think again,

我認為，事實上我也感受到，我還是認為

I think it's a natural instinct,

這是一個自然現象

I think we humans, especially in the Western world

我認為人類，尤其是西方世界的人們

and especially inside democracies,

尤其是生活於民主制度的人們

are wired to be skeptical and mindful of large institutions

傾向於質疑規模大的公司並且對此保持小心審慎的態度

of any kind, we're skeptical, I'm sure,

我們對於任何權力集中的產業都會產生質疑

we're skeptical of our government

我們常質疑我們的政府

always in the United States, state governments,

在美國，時時刻刻對於州政府

local governments, I assume it's similar in Germany.

地方政府都是採取質疑的態度，我相信在德國也是如此

It's healthy, because they're big, powerful institutions.

這是非常健康的態度，畢竟對象都是掌握權力的機構

You know, the police, the military, whatever it is,

不論是警察或是軍隊，或是其他機構

it doesn't mean that you don't trust them

這不代表你不相信他們

or that they're bad or evil or anything like that,

或是因為他們很糟糕

they're just, they have a lot of power and control

而是因為他們擁有很大的權力可以控制別人

and so you want to inspect them.

因此你希望可以適當監督他們

Maybe that's a better word.

監督應該是比較適當的形容詞

You kinda wanna always be inspecting them.

你希望可以時刻監督他們

And I think if you look at the big tech companies,

我認為如果你看到這些科技巨頭

they have gotten large enough that they need,

已經獲得足夠的資本發展大規模的產業

they're going to be inspected.

社會大眾就會監督他們

And by the way, it's not personal.

這並非針對個人

I think where some of the, where you can go astray on this

我認為或許有些人會抱持偏頗的想法

if you're the founder of a company,

假如你是創辦

one of these big tech companies

科技產業的巨頭

or any other big institution, if you go astray on this,

或是其他產業上的龍頭，如果你想法較偏頗

you might start to take it personally,

你可能覺得這帶有針對性

like what why are you inspecting me?

你可能會說你憑什麼檢驗我？

And I wish that people would just say yes, it's fine.

但我希望大家都能欣然答應，並且處之泰然