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  • So ... we're in a real live war at the moment,

    譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Adrienne Lin

  • and it's a war that we're truly losing.

    所以…我們現在正處於真實的戰爭中,

  • It's a war on superbugs.

    且我們真的在節節敗退。

  • So you might wonder,

    這是場與超級病菌之戰。

  • if I'm going to talk about superbugs,

    你們可能會納悶,

  • why I'm showing you a photograph of some soccer fans --

    如果我要來談超級病菌,

  • Liverpool soccer fans celebrating a famous victory

    為什麼我給各位看的是 一些足球迷的照片?

  • in Istanbul, a decade ago.

    這些是利物浦的足球迷, 正在慶祝一場著名的勝仗,

  • In the back, in the red shirt,

    十年前在伊斯坦堡的勝仗。

  • well, that's me,

    在後排,穿著紅色上衣的,

  • and next to me in the red hat, that's my friend Paul Rice.

    就是我。

  • So a couple of years after this picture was taken,

    我旁邊戴紅帽子的那位, 是我的朋友保羅萊斯。

  • Paul went into hospital for some minor surgery,

    這張照片拍攝後幾年,

  • and he developed a superbug-related infection,

    保羅去醫院做小手術時,

  • and he died.

    受到超級病菌的感染,

  • And I was truly shocked.

    然後過世了。

  • He was a healthy guy in the prime of life.

    我非常震驚。

  • So there and then,

    他是個很健康的人,正值壯年。

  • and actually with a lot of encouragement from a couple of TEDsters,

    在那時,

  • I declared my own personal war on superbugs.

    由於幾位 TED 的人給我許多鼓勵,

  • So let's talk about superbugs for a moment.

    我個人向超級病菌宣戰。

  • The story actually starts in the 1940s

    我們先來談一下超級病菌。

  • with the widespread introduction of antibiotics.

    故事開始於 1940 年代,

  • And since then,

    當時抗生素被廣泛推廣。

  • drug-resistant bacteria have continued to emerge,

    從那之後,

  • and so we've been forced to develop newer and newer drugs

    抗藥物的細菌就持續出現,

  • to fight these new bacteria.

    我們就不得不一直開發更新的藥物

  • And this vicious cycle actually is the origin of superbugs,

    來對抗新的細菌。

  • which is simply bacteria for which we don't have effective drugs.

    這個惡性循環正是超級病菌的起源,

  • I'm sure you'll recognize at least some of these superbugs.

    超級病菌就是我們沒有任何 有效藥物可以對抗的細菌。

  • These are the more common ones around today.

    我相信你們應該認識 其中幾種超級病菌。

  • Last year, around 700,000 people died

    這些是現今比較常見的超級病菌。

  • from superbug-related diseases.

    去年,大約有七十萬人

  • Looking to the future,

    死於超級病菌相關的疾病。

  • if we carry on on the path we're going,

    展望未來,

  • which is basically a drugs-based approach to the problem,

    如果我們繼續在現行的路線上前進,

  • the best estimate by the middle of this century

    基本上就是採取以藥物 為基礎的方法來解決問題,

  • is that the worldwide death toll from superbugs will be 10 million.

    到這個世紀中期,最合理預估,

  • 10 million.

    全世界會有一千萬人 因為感染超級病菌而死亡,

  • Just to put that in context, that's actually more

    一千萬人。

  • than the number of people that died of cancer worldwide last year.

    以比喻來說,這個數字

  • So it seems pretty clear that we're not on a good road,

    比去年全世界死於癌症的人數還多。

  • and the drugs-based approach to this problem is not working.

    所以顯然我們的現行路線 不是很理想。

  • I'm a physicist,

    以藥物為基礎的方法 來解決這個問題是行不通的。

  • and so I wondered, could we take a physics-based approach --

    我是物理學家,

  • a different approach to this problem.

    所以我就想,我們是否 可以用以物理為基礎的方法,

  • And in that context,

    用一個不同的方法來解決此問題。

  • the first thing we know for sure,

    在那個情況下,

  • is that we actually know how to kill every kind of microbe,

    我們能確定的第一件事,

  • every kind of virus,

    就是我們確實知道如何 殺死每一種微生物,

  • every kind of bacteria.

    每一種病毒,

  • And that's with ultraviolet light.

    每一種細菌。

  • We've actually known this for more than 100 years.

    做法就是用紫外線。

  • I think you all know what ultraviolet light is.

    我們早在一百年前就知道這件事了。

  • It's part of a spectrum that includes infrared,

    我想,你們都知道紫外線是什麼。

  • it includes visible light,

    它是光譜的一部份, 光譜上包括了紅外線,

  • and the short-wavelength part of this group is ultraviolet light.

    它包括了可見光,

  • The key thing from our perspective here

    其中短波長的部份就是紫外線。

  • is that ultraviolet light kills bacteria by a completely different mechanism

    我們想法的關鍵是

  • from the way drugs kill bacteria.

    紫外線殺死細菌的機制

  • So ultraviolet light is just as capable of killing a drug-resistant bacteria

    完全不同於藥物殺死細菌的方法。

  • as any other bacteria,

    紫外線能夠殺死 那些能抵抗藥物的細菌,

  • and because ultraviolet light is so good at killing all bugs,

    就像殺死其他細菌一樣。

  • it's actually used a lot these days to sterilize rooms,

    因為紫外線非常擅長 殺死所有的細菌,

  • sterilize working surfaces.

    其實近期它常常被用來消毒房間、

  • What you see here is a surgical theater

    消毒工作表面。

  • being sterilized with germicidal ultraviolet light.

    各位現在看到的是一間手術室,

  • But what you don't see in this picture, actually,

    正在用殺菌紫外線進行消毒。

  • is any people,

    在照片上看不到的一樣東西,

  • and there's a very good reason for that.

    就是人。

  • Ultraviolet light is actually a health hazard,

    這背後有個很好的理由。

  • so it can damage cells in our skin,

    紫外線對人體的健康有害,

  • cause skin cancer,

    它可能會傷害我們的皮膚細胞,

  • it can damage cells in our eye,

    造成皮膚癌,

  • cause eye diseases like cataract.

    它可能會傷害我們的眼睛細胞,

  • So you can't use conventional, germicidal, ultraviolet light

    造成眼睛疾病,如白內障。

  • when there are people are around.

    所以,你不能把常見的殺菌紫外線

  • And of course,

    用在有人的地方。

  • we want to sterilize mostly when there are people around.

    然而,

  • So the ideal ultraviolet light

    我們就是想要對人來做殺菌。

  • would actually be able to kill all bacteria,

    所以,理想的紫外線

  • including superbugs,

    要能夠殺死所有細菌,

  • but would be safe for human exposure.

    包括超級病菌,

  • And actually that's where my physics background kicked into this story.

    但在人類被照射到時,也要是安全的。

  • Together with my physics colleagues,

    那就是我的物理背景 進入這個故事的地方了。

  • we realized there actually is a particular wavelength of ultraviolet light

    我和我的物理同事合作,

  • that should kill all bacteria,

    我們發現,紫外線有一個特定的波長

  • but should be safe for human exposure.

    應該能夠殺死所有細菌,

  • That wavelength is called far-UVC light,

    而且照射到人類也是安全的。

  • and it's just the short-wavelength part of the ultraviolet spectrum.

    那波長被稱為「遠紫外線」,

  • So let's see how that would work.

    它只是紫外線光譜上的短波部份。

  • What you're seeing here is the surface of our skin,

    我們來看看它是怎麼運作的。

  • and I'm going to superimpose on that some bacteria in the air above the skin.

    各位在這裡看到的是皮膚的表面,

  • Now we're going to see what happens

    我要在皮膚上面的空氣中 加上一些的細菌。

  • when conventional, germicidal, ultraviolet light impinges on this.

    現在我們來看看

  • So what you see is,

    用常見的殺菌紫外線 在上面照射後會發生什麼事。

  • as we know, germicidal light is really good at killing bacteria,

    你們現在看到的是,

  • but what you also see

    如我們所知,殺菌紫外線 真的很擅長殺死細菌,

  • is that it penetrates into the upper layers of our skin,

    但你們也看到,

  • and it can damage those key cells in our skin

    它穿透過皮膚的上面幾層,

  • which ultimately, when damaged, can lead to skin cancer.

    它可能會傷害皮膚的重要細胞。

  • So let's compare now with far-UVC light --

    當這些細胞受損, 最終可能就會導致皮膚癌。

  • same situation,

    現在來和遠紫外線做個比較--

  • skin and some bacteria in the air above them.

    在同樣的情況下,

  • So what you're seeing now

    皮膚上的空氣中有一些細菌。

  • is that again, far-UVC light's perfectly fine at killing bacteria,

    現在各位看到的,

  • but what far-UVC light can't do is penetrate into our skin.

    是遠紫外線也可以很完美地殺死細菌,

  • And there's a good, solid physics reason for that:

    但遠紫外線卻不會穿透我們的皮膚。

  • far-UVC light is incredibly, strongly absorbed by all biological materials,

    這個現象的背後有個很好 而且很可靠的物理理由:

  • so it simply can't go very far.

    遠紫外線能被所有的生物材料 以不可思議的程度強力吸收,

  • Now, viruses and bacteria are really, really, really small,

    所以它就是走不遠。

  • so the far-UVC light can certainly penetrate them and kill them,

    病毒和細菌都極其微小,

  • but what it can't do is penetrate into skin,

    所以遠紫外線肯定 可以穿透並殺死它們。

  • and it can't even penetrate the dead-cell area

    但它無法做到的,就是穿透皮膚,

  • right at the very surface of our skin.

    它甚至無法穿透我們皮膚 表面的死細胞區域。

  • So far-UVC light should be able to kill bacteria,

    所以遠紫外線應該可以殺死細菌,

  • but kill them safely.

    而且對人體是安全的。

  • So that's the theory.

    所以理論是這樣,

  • It should work, should be safe.

    它應該有用,應該安全。

  • What about in practice?

    那麼在實際運作時呢?

  • Does it really work?

    它真的有用嗎?

  • Is it really safe?

    它真的安全嗎?

  • So that's actually what our lab has been working on

    那正是過去五到六年間, 我們的實驗室在努力的,

  • the past five or six years,

    我很高興地告訴各位, 這兩個問題的答案,

  • and I'm delighted to say the answer to both these questions

    是很肯定的「是的」。

  • is an emphatic yes.

    是的,它的確有用,

  • Yes, it does work,

    是的,它是安全的。

  • but yes, it is safe.

    我很高興能那麼說,

  • So I'm delighted to say that,

    但其實這結果並不會讓我訝異,

  • but actually I'm not very surprised to say that,

    因為那很單純就是物理原理。

  • because it's purely the laws of physics at work.

    咱們來看看未來。

  • So let's look to the future.

    我們現在有了全新的武器, 我感到很興奮,

  • I'm thrilled that we now have a completely new weapon,

    我應該說是不貴的武器,

  • and I should say an inexpensive weapon,

    能用來對抗超級病菌。

  • in our fight against superbugs.

    比如,

  • For example,

    我可在手術室看到遠紫外線。

  • I see far-UVC lights in surgical theaters.

    在製作食物的區域看到遠紫外線。

  • I see far-UVC lights in food preparation areas.

    在預防病毒散播方面,

  • And in terms of preventing the spread of viruses,

    我可在學校看到遠紫外線,

  • I see far-UVC lights in schools,

    預防感冒傳播,

  • preventing the spread of influenza,

    預防麻疹散佈,

  • preventing the spread of measles,

    我在機場或飛機上看到遠紫外線,

  • and I see far-UVC lights in airports or airplanes,

    預防像 H1N1 這類病毒在全球散佈。

  • preventing the global spread of viruses like H1N1 virus.

    回到我的朋友保羅萊斯。

  • So back to my friend Paul Rice.

    在我們的家鄉利物浦,

  • He was actually a well-known and well-loved local politician

    他其實是位知名 且受愛戴的當地政治家,

  • in his and my hometown of Liverpool,

    他們在利物浦的中心 為他立了一座紀念雕像,

  • and they put up a statue in his memory in the center of Liverpool,

    就這個。

  • and there it is.

    但是我,

  • But me,

    我希望保羅留給世人的是 在超級病菌之戰中的重大進展。

  • I want Paul's legacy to be a major advance in this war against superbugs.

    有了遠紫外線為武器,

  • Armed with the power of light,

    勝利已經不遠了。

  • that's actually within our grasp.

    謝謝。

  • Thank you.

    (掌聲)

  • (Applause)

    克里斯安德森:請留步,大衛, 我有個問題想請教。

  • Chris Anderson: Stay up here, David, I've got a question for you.

    (掌聲)

  • (Applause)

    大衛,請告訴我們, 你們開發這個的目的是什麼?

  • David, tell us where you're up to in developing this,

    若要實現這個夢想,

  • and what are the remaining obstacles to trying to roll out

    還有什麼其他障礙待突破?

  • and realize this dream?

    大衛布倫納:我想, 我們現在知道它能殺死所有細菌,

  • David Brenner: Well, I think we now know that it kills all bacteria,

    但在我們開始之前就知道這點了,

  • but we sort of knew that before we started,

    但我們對它做了測試。

  • but we certainly tested that.

    所以,我們得要做很多 安全相關的測試,

  • So we have to do lots and lots of tests about safety,

    重點比較是在安全而非效能。

  • and so it's more about safety than it is about efficacy.

    我們需要做短期測試,

  • And we need to do short-term tests,

    我們需要做長期測試,

  • and we need to do long-term tests

    以確保使用者不會因此 在多年之後得到黑色素瘤。

  • to make sure you can't develop melanoma many years on.

    所以,目前那些研究都做得很好。

  • So those studies are pretty well done at this point.

    當然,我們必須得到 食品及藥物管理局批准,

  • The FDA of course is something we have to deal with,

    這是理所當然的,

  • and rightly so,

    因為如果要實際廣泛運用, 就一定要先有食品及藥物管理局的核准。

  • because we certainly can't use this in the real world without FDA approval.

    克里斯:你打算先在美國推出,

  • CA: Are you trying to launch first in the US,

    或其他地方?

  • or somewhere else?

    大衛:事實上,會在兩個國家。

  • DB: Actually, in a couple of countries.

    在日本和美國。

  • In Japan and in the US, both.

    克里斯:你是否已經 說服了生物學家及醫生,

  • CA: Have you been able to persuade biologists, doctors,

    讓他們相信這是安全的方法?

  • that this is a safe approach?

    大衛:你可以想像, 一定有人會抱持懷疑態度,

  • DB: Well, as you can imagine, there is a certain skepticism

    因為每個人都知道紫外線不安全。

  • because everybody knows that UV light is not safe.

    所以當有個人說:

  • So when somebody comes along and says,

    「這種特定的紫外線是安全的。」

  • "Well, this particular UV light is safe,"

    就會有障礙需要跨越,

  • there is a barrier to be crossed,

    但我們已經有數據資料了,

  • but the data are there,

    那些資料會是我們的基礎。

  • and I think that's what we're going to be standing on.

    克里斯:祝你順利。

  • CA: Well, we wish you well.

    這是可能是相當重要的研究。

  • This is potentially such important work.

    非常謝謝和我們分享。

  • Thank you so much for sharing this with us.

    謝謝,大衛。

  • Thank you, David.

    (掌聲)

  • (Applause)

So ... we're in a real live war at the moment,

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Adrienne Lin

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B1 中級 中文 美國腔 TED 紫外線 病菌 細菌 殺死 皮膚

TED】David Brenner:對抗超級細菌的新武器(對抗超級細菌的新武器|大衛-布倫納)。 (【TED】David Brenner: A new weapon in the fight against superbugs (A new weapon in the fight against superbugs | David Brenner))

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    Zenn 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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