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(Ray Comfort) You're an atheist?

(Ray Comfort) 您是一個無神論者嗎?

I am definitely an atheist, yes.

是的，我的確是一個無神論者。

(Ray Comfort) Why are you an atheist?

(Ray Comfort) 您爲什麽是個無神論者呢?

Why am I an atheist? Because there is no God.

我爲什麽是個無神論者? 因為沒有神.

Atheism assumes that you can disprove the existence of a God.

無神論相信人可以證明上帝的不存在。

Agnostic is a more correct term, but I'm an atheist.

不可知論者的稱謂更貼近一些，但我是個無神論者。

(Ray Comfort) Are you an atheist?

(Ray Comfort) 您是個無神論者嗎？

- Yeah. - I am an atheist, yeah.

- 嗯. - 我是個無神論者，是的。

- I am, yes. - I am.

- 是的，我是。 - 我是。

(Ray Comfort) So you're not an atheist?

(Ray Comfort) 所以您不是個無神論者?

No, I'm not.

不，我不是.

(Ray Comfort) So you're leaning that way because of evolution?

(Ray Comfort) 所以你傾向於無神論是因為進化論的緣故嗎？

Yeah.

嗯。

I don't believe in the, there's a guy in the sky

我不信有個男人在天上

that lives in the sky.

且住在上面.

- You believe in evolution? - Of course I do, yes.

- 您信進化論嗎? - 當然啦，我信。

(male narrator) "Live Science" says of Darwinian evolution:

(Male Narrator) "Live Science-生命科學" 說道 達爾文進化論為:

"It can turn dinosaurs into birds, apes into humans

"進化論證實恐龍演變成鳥類，猿類演變成人類， 21 01:01:19,167 --> 01:01:22,467 雙棲哺乳動物演變成鯨魚"

and amphibious mammals into whales."

達爾文透過他對進化論以及

What Darwin showed in his work on evolution

物競天擇的研究，表示了我們不必動用

and natural selection is that we don't need to invoke

任何超能力

any supernatural force or power

而能夠解釋世上一直以來的生命發展過程。

to account for the development of life through time on earth.

就是在現今，可被觀察的演化也正在進行中。

The ongoing processes that are observable in today's world.

(Ray Comfort) 你認為它是一種信念嗎？

(Ray Comfort) Do you think it's a belief?

我認為它就是事實。

I think it's just fact.

我認為它偏向於事實。

I think more like facts.

證據太多，無法忽視。

There is too much evidence to ignore.

(Ray Comfort) 您認為它是一種信念嗎?

(Ray Comfort) Do you think it's a belief?

- 不, 是科學。 - 就是這樣發生的。

- No, it's science. - It's the way it happened.

是合乎邏輯的。

It's logical.

你知道嗎，大部份的科學家也贊同這樣的說法。

You know, all the scientists pretty much agree with it.

它更像事實。

It's more of a fact.

(Ray Comfort) 你是什麽時候開始信的？

(Ray Comfort) When did you start to believe?

當我開始為自己想的時候。

When I started to think for myself.

(Ray Comfort) 你是什麽時候開始信的？

(Ray Comfort) When did you start believing?

當我修了第一堂生物課的時候。

When I took my first biology class.

一切就開始合理化了。

It all started to make a lot of sense.

老師教得非常易懂。

The teacher made it very easy to understand.

我一般會信任科學界。

I generally trust the scientific community.

它比任何宗教信仰都來的可信。

It makes more sense than any religion or anything.

他們所找到的山頂洞人，古代智人

The fossils they have found of all the cavemen,

及恐龍的化石-- 都是證據確鑿

the Homo sapiens, dinosaurs-- it shows clear evidence.

我信科學。

I believe in science.

(Ray Comfort) 你在這所大學的主修是什麽？

(Ray Comfort) What's your major here at this university?

生物學.

Biology.

- 你主修生物嗎？ - 嗯。

- You're a biology major? - Yeah.

- 你信進化論嗎？ - 是的。

- You believe in evolution? - Yes.

- 你主修什麽？ - 地質學

- What's your major? - Geology.

- 化學. - 生物化學.

- Chemistry. - Biochemistry.

環保科學與政策。

Environmental science and policy.

我是個物理學家。

I'm a physicist.

生物化學。

Biochemistry.

(Ray Comfort) 好的，你信進化論嗎？

(Ray Comfort) Okay, do you believe in evolution?

是的，我信。

Yes, I do.

- 你信進化論嗎？ - 是的，我信。

- Do you believe in evolution? - Yes, I do.

- 當然. - 是的，我信。

- Of course. - Yes, I do.

我的確信進化論。

I do believe in evolution.

- 你信進化論嗎？ - 是的。

- You believe in evolution? - Yes.

- 你非常堅信嗎？ - 是的。

- Are you a strong believer? - Yes.

- 你非常堅信嗎？ - 嗯。

- Are you a strong believer? - Yep.

- 是的。 - 是的。

- Yes. - Yes.

絕對是.

Absolutely.

(旁白) "[The] 科學方法是以觀察及試驗收集

(narrator) A Scientific method is based on "the collection

各種數據和資料."

of data through observation and experimentation." -Science Daily

(Ray Comfort) 你能否提供一些證實進化論

(Ray Comfort) Could you give me some observable evidence

可觀察到的證據?

that evolution is true?

一個我不用去相信而得到解答的證據？

Something I don't have to receive by faith?

- 嗯. - 一些可觀察到的證據嗎？

- Yeah. - Some observable evidence?

我意思是，你看看6千5百萬年前所發生的事情。

I mean, take a look at what happened 65 million years ago.

(Ray Comfort) 等下, 我不能, 那是6千5百年之前的事情。.

(Ray Comfort) Hang on, I can't, that's 65 million years ago.

我信， 嗯。 幾百萬年前的事。

I believe, yeah, millions of years.

(Ray Comfort) 所以那是能觀察到的嗎？

(Ray Comfort) So that can't be observed.

我們透過化石記錄可以追溯進化的過程。

We can trace the evolution through the fossil record.

(Ray Comfort) 你能明確的給我一個例子嗎？ 78 01:03:21,133 --> 01:03:24,867 介於六百萬和七百萬年前之間。

(Ray Comfort) Could you be specific, just give me one?

幾十萬年至幾百萬年。

Between 6 and 7 million years ago.

-所以是挺長的一段時間。 -是的。

Hundreds of thousands to millions of years.

- 幾百萬年？ - 是的。

- So it's quite a long time. - Yes.

(Ray Comfort) 所以它能被觀察到嗎？

- Millions of years? - Yes.

進化過程是不能依時間來試驗的。

(Ray Comfort) So it can't be observed?

(Narrator) "我們註定只能活幾十年

Evolution is not testable over time.

，這段太慢又太微小的時間比例

(narrator) "We are condemned to live only for a few decades

因而無法見到演化的過程。" 理查德·道金斯.

and that's too slow, too small a time scale

"我們對於這些緩慢變化的進行，

to see evolution going on," Richard Dawkins.

一點也不能覺察，除非有時代變遷的標記。"

"We see nothing of these slow changes in progress,

查爾斯。達爾文.

until the hand of time has marked the lapse of ages..."

(Ray Comfort) 你有犬科： 郊狼及家犬；

Charles Darwin.

還有貓科： 就是貓，

(Ray Comfort) You've got the canine kind: the coyote and the domestic dog;

老虎, 幼貓; 再加上人類。

and there's the feline kind: which is the cats,

所以達爾文說道，在長時間的條件下，

the tiger, and the kitten; and you've got humankind.

變種是會發生的,

So Darwin said there'd be a change of kinds

所以你能給一個

over many years,

可觀察到的變種證據嗎?

so could you give me one example of observable evidence

譬如說, 化石記錄顯示

of a change of kinds?

肉食動物的共同祖先

So for instance, the fossil record shows

貓及狗曾經是因共同祖先

the common ancestors of all carnivores,

而有所關聯的。

that cats and dogs were once linked,

(Ray Comfort) 多久以前?

united by a common ancestor.

我想應該是，6千萬年前。

(Ray Comfort) How long ago?

(Ray Comfort) 我不想要需要用信念來接受的證據。

This, I believe, was, like, 60 million years ago.

我想要能夠觀察到的。

(Ray Comfort) I don't want something that I have to accept by faith.

可觀察到的證據.

I want it to be observable.

我的意思是， 你就這樣在大街上問我。

Observable evidence.

那關於可觀察到的證據

Well, I mean, if you're just asking me here on the street,

就沒有什麽可以奉告的。

there's really not much I can tell you

我們必須鑽研現有的數據和資料

in terms of observable evidence.

才能歸納出個人的結論。

Like, we would have to really examine existing data

(Ray Comfort) 那我們必須要心存信念是嗎？

to draw conclusions of our own.

我們必須要有相同的信念。

(Ray Comfort) We would have to have faith, then?

(Ray Comfort) 你能想到任何支持達爾文進化論

We would have to have some amount of faith.

所提及的變種理論

(Ray Comfort) Can you think of any observable evidence

的可觀察到證據？

for Darwinian evolution,

(male) 像猴子變成人，你是不是在講這種變化？

where he said there'd be a change of kind?

(Ray Comfort) 嗯，變種。

(male) Like a monkey to a man, is that what you're talking about?

我想如今還沒有此類的證據。

(Ray Comfort) Yeah, a change of kinds.

只有猴子獨有的

I don't really believe there's any proof for that yet.

第五手指，像我們一樣

Well, monkeys are the only ones

(Ray Comfort) 無尾熊也有第五手指，你知道嗎？

with the fifth digit like we have.

(female) 我不知道。

(Ray Comfort) Koalas have a fifth digit. Did you know that?

(Ray Comfort) 你覺得我們是從無尾熊演變過來的嗎？

(female) I didn't know that.

不是。

(Ray Comfort) Do you think we're evolved from koalas?

我到華盛頓的時候，

No.

看到有整個展覽專門在解釋。。。

I went to, like, Washington, D.C.

- 在史密斯森博物館? - 是的, 就在史密斯森博物館.

I saw they had a whole exhibit just on the--

(Ray Comfort) 我有去過。 只不過是一些人像模型

- In the Smithsonian? - Yeah, in the Smithsonian.

圍著火站著。

(Ray Comfort) I went to that. It's just like some stuffed dummies,

我知道人人都會討論人類

like standing around a fire.

缺失的環節

I know that everyone talks about the missing link

我認為外面有 133 01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:23,867 尚未被發現的環節。

for humans and whatnot.

我會信那些專家們所做的研究

I believe that there are connections that are out there

，他們所歸納出的結論。

that we haven't found yet.

基於所提供的證據

I'm going to trust what those experts did,

我對於演化論有絕對的信心。

those experts came up with.

(Ray Comfort) 你能想到任何支持達爾文進化論

I have a strong trust in evolutionary ideas

所提及的任何理論的可觀察證據嗎？

based on the evidence presented.

我自己尚未見過，

(Ray Comfort) Can you think of any observable evidence

但我相信教科書上所說，所以。。。

for Darwinian evolution, a change of kinds?

(Ray Comfort) 你對於專家有信念?

I haven't seen it myself,

嗯，我對於專家有信念。

but I believe what the textbooks tell me about it, so.

我猜想這種信念像有信仰的人

(Ray Comfort) You've got faith in the experts?

對於上帝存在的信念。

I have faith in the experts, yeah.

我對於專家所說的言論有信念。

I guess similar to how religious people have faith

(Ray Comfort) 科學方法既可觀察，又可重複，

that God actually exists, I have faith in the experts

你能想到任何支持達爾文進化論所提及的理論

knowing what they're talking about.

的任何可觀察證據嗎？

(Ray Comfort) The scientific method is it must be observable and repeatable,

好的，我給你舉一個很棒的例子，

so could you give me one piece of observable evidence

就是刺魚的基因.

for Darwinian evolution?

(Ray Comfort) 那是什麽?

Okay, I would point to-- there's one great example

刺魚是近期在

is look at the genetics of the stickleback.

冰河時期過後被隔離的

(Ray Comfort) What's that?

一個很特別的物種

So stickleback fish are a very interesting collection

(Ray Comfort) 牠們變成了什麽？

of species that were recently isolated

是幾種刺魚的種類。

after the end of the Ice Age.

(Ray Comfort) 那牠們還是魚類嗎?

(Ray Comfort) What have they become?

當然.

They're various species of sticklebacks.

(Ray Comfort) 你能想到任何變種

(Ray Comfort) They stayed as fish?

的可觀察到證據嗎？

Well, of course.

魚.

(Ray Comfort) Can you think of any observable evidence

人類還是魚。

where there was a change of kinds?

(Ray Comfort) 人類還是魚嗎?

Fish.

是的, 牠們當然是魚。

Human beings are still fish.

(Ray Comfort) 耗了多長時間？

(Ray Comfort) Human beings are fish?

幾十億年，百萬年。。

Why, yes, of course they are.

- 幾百萬年? - 嗯.

(Ray Comfort) How long did that take?

- 這樣怎麼能觀察到呢? - 不能

Couple billions of years, millions.

我們以哺乳類動物從地里出來

- Couple millions? - Yep.

然後一個哺乳動物變為。。--

- How is that observable? - It's not.

(Ray Comfort) 從地里出來的嗎?

We came out of the ground as a mammal,

我們不是從海洋出來的嗎?

and one mammal created--

哦? 嗯, 最初的開始

(Ray Comfort) Come out of the ground?

我們是從地里及海洋出來的。

Didn't we come out of the sea?

在地球大爆炸之後--

Huh? Well, initially in the beginning,

(Ray Comfort) 所以我們從海裡出來時是帶有肺還是腮?

we came out of the ground and the sea.

你想知道嗎?

After the great destruction of the--

在海裡的那些，我猜想帶有腮。

(Ray Comfort) So did we have lungs or gills when we came out of the sea?

然後地上的那些，我猜想帶有肺。

You want to know something?

(Ray Comfort) 但如果我是從海裡出來的，我在海裡時帶有腮嗎？

Those that were in the sea I guess had gills,

你想知道嗎？

and those that were on land had lungs.

誰知道我來自海洋還是--

(Ray Comfort) But if we came out of the sea, we had gills in the sea?

從哺乳動物演化出來的?

You want to know something?

- 所以你不知道? - 哦? 我當然不知道。

Who knows that we came out of the sea or we came out of--

我相信他們做了正確的研究。

we evolved from mammals?

(Ray Comfort) 你能否提供一個達爾文進化論的例子,

- So you don't know? - Huh? Of course I don't know.

不是適應，也不是物種形成，而是變種？

I'm accepting that they did their science correctly.

[laughing]

(Ray Comfort) Could you give me an example of Darwinian evolution,

這就是變種。

not adaptation or speciation, but a change of kinds?

(Ray Comfort) 牠們還是魚。

[laughing]

牠們明顯的是不同的魚。

These are changes of kinds.

我們有幾千個例子。

(Ray Comfort) They're still fish.

(Ray Comfort) 你能給我一個嗎?

They're distinctly different fish.

- 我能給你幾千個。 - 只要一個就好

We have thousands of examples.

譬如說,

(Ray Comfort) Can you give me one?

那我建議你看看倫斯基的細菌試驗。

- I can give you thousands. - Just one.

(Ray Comfort) 那麼細菌變成了什麽呢？

For instance,

細菌當然還是細菌。

I would say look at Lenski's experiments in bacteria, then.

(Ray Comfort) 那這不是達爾文進化論啊。

(Ray Comfort) So what have the bacteria become?

那不是變種，不是嗎？

The bacteria are still bacteria, of course.

是細菌基因構成的變化。

(Ray Comfort) So that's not Darwinian evolution.

(Ray Comfort) 但它們還是細菌。

That's not a change of kinds, is it?

那細菌變成了什麽？

It is a change in the genetic makeup of the bacteria.

一種新型的細菌。

(Ray Comfort) But they're still bacteria.

(Ray Comfort) 它還是細菌，沒有發生變種。

So what have the bacteria become?

總結得出，你所提供的達爾文進化論可觀察到

A new kind of bacteria.

的證據是細菌變成細菌。

(Ray Comfort) It's still bacteria. There's no change of kinds.

不是，是細菌獲得新的代謝能力。

To summarize, the observable evidence that you give me

(Ray Comfort) 你曾說過有好多進化論的證據。

for Darwinian evolution is bacteria becoming bacteria.

我只是想要一個達爾文進化論

No, it is bacteria acquiring new metabolic capabilities.

可觀察到的證據，一個而已。

(Ray Comfort) You said before that there was lots of evidence for evolution.

但我給你幾個了 你都不要--

I just want one observable evidence

(Ray Comfort) 不是幾個. 我只要一個.

for Darwinian evolution. Just one.

等一下，是你不要的。

But I gave you some. You don't want--

(Ray Comfort) 我想要一個。 是的，我要。

(Ray Comfort) Not some. I want one.

我向人們懇求。

Wait, you don't want that.

是你要我告訴你的-- 是你要我告訴你的

(Ray Comfort) I want one. Yes, I do.

在何時看過一個物種演變成另外一個。

I'm pleading with people.

這不對嗎?

You asked me to tell you-- you asked me to tell you

(Ray Comfort) 不是，一個種類變成另外一個種類。

when I've watched one species evolve into another.

物種有14個不同的定義,

Isn't that right?

所以我有種類的變化。

(Ray Comfort) No, one kind into another.

那當你講到變種或動物科的變化,

There's 14 different definitions of species,

你其實是在講宏觀進化。

so I want a change of kind.

你講的是區分狗跟貓的

When you're talking about kinds or change in families,

巨大變化.

you're actually talking about macroevolution.

(Ray Comfort) 你可以給我一些達爾文進化論的例子？

You're talking about changes on the level that separates,

當你講那種例子的話。

say, cats from dogs.

必須有更長時間範圍。

(Ray Comfort) So could you give me any examples of Darwinian evolution?

跟信念沒關係。

Well, when you say examples of that,

信念是我見不到的。

then you have to sort of look at it over a longer time frame.

但我必須相信。

It has nothing to do with faith.

(Ray Comfort) 就是這意思，見不到的。

Faith is something that I have to--unseen,

你看，你還信進化論嗎？

I have to believe it.

我當然信。

(Ray Comfort) That's it, unseen.

(Ray Comfort) 你是一個進化論的信徒嗎？

Look, do you believe evolution?

是的，我是。

Of course I do.

(Ray Comfort) 你從什麽時候開始信進化論？

(Ray Comfort) Are you a believer in evolution?

當我開始為自己設想時

Yes, I am.

我就開始信進化論了。

(Ray Comfort) When did you start to believe evolution?

(Ray Comfort) 進化論是一種信仰嗎？

I started to believe evolution

進化-- 你知道嗎？

when I started to think for myself.

進化是一種思想的過程。

(Ray Comfort) Is evolution a belief?

是一種接受

Evolu-- well, you know something?

也是對於所有的其他選擇進行研究。

Evolution is a thought process.

像是看宗教，”人“所造的宗教。