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  • Interviewer: How do we go about changing someone's nature?

  • Jacque: First of all, as a kid, when I was about 15 or 16,

  • I asked all those questions you're asking now.

  • I said to myself, "How can you make a world of uniformity,

  • bring all the nations together? Their social customs, their concept of God is different.

  • They may have 10 wives. You believe in one. How do you bring them together?"

  • And I said the most difficult three words in my life,

  • "I don't know."

  • I really didn't know. I said, "How can I do that?"

  • I said, "Don't try to design a global civilization

  • until you understand what you're talking about."

  • I got confused. I got into my own... Thinking is talking to yourself.

  • If I say, "I'll see you Saturday." "I'll take the kids... It means I can't see you."

  • It's talking to yourself, it's nothing magical.

  • I talked to myself and I said,

  • "How do you know your system will work? It sounds good on paper.

  • You sound like (it's my own language) a Utopian."

  • I got a book from the library years ago

  • and it was called "125 Utopias and Why They Failed."

  • To me, that was very important to read,

  • and I read that book and I came up with something slightly different.

  • I felt that... I had in my day a thing called a Victrola.

  • You wind it up and the record would play.

  • And I was thinking within those terms and my age... I'm 94,

  • I've seen so many changes that I couldn't accept the notion of Utopia.

  • If I designed a very good city that's the best I know up to now,

  • but I know that that new city would be a straight jacket to the kids of the future.

  • They'll design their own cities.

  • If you made a statue of me in front of that city, you hold back the future.

  • If you have a laptop, which I'm sure you may have...

  • A laptop is not the best that can be.

  • It's the best we know of up to now.

  • Ten years from now the laptop will be smaller, lighter, faster, everything.

  • You can't freeze anything, or you can't use the word Utopia because it assumes

  • you've delved on the ideal civilization. And to me that's ridiculous.

  • Anything I design can be surpassed.

  • Even in the history of my own work,

  • I keep changing things. I have no fixed notions.

  • Interviewer: All the visions of The Venus Project I've seen, they look beautiful.

  • They are stunningly well designed worlds.

  • But it seems like a lot of the people I've spoken to,

  • not yourself yet, I'm speaking to you now,

  • they see a world without greed, without fear, without murder,

  • without governments, without police forces, without investment bankers.

  • Jacque: How do attain that when there is such a thing as jealousy? Even a thing like that.

  • Interviewer: Or terrorism. Someone might want to blow up.

  • Jacque: Sure. I met many different people in my travels,

  • and I'll try to explain what jealousy is.

  • See, they don't define their terms. If you ask a particular person,

  • "What are your conclusions now, in life, that you're 70 years old?"

  • He says, "Well, I'm a nature lover. I believe in letting nature alone.

  • I think nature's a wonderful thing."

  • I say, "You mean you like hurricanes and earthquakes which kill thousands of people? That's nature too."

  • Being ruthlessly honest, there are some aspects of nature that preserve life and some that are dangerous.

  • A rattlesnake is natural. A cobra is natural.

  • And an earthquake is natural. Meteors falling on the earth is natural.

  • I'm not a nature accepter. There are some aspects of nature I like,

  • other aspects are detrimental to human beings.

  • When I meet a person who says, "I'm a nature lover,"

  • I say, "What do you mean by that?"

  • Another person says, "I'm spiritual."

  • I'm not sure what that means, so I say, "What do you mean by that?

  • Do you mean you have no locks on your door?

  • If you see a hungry person, you bring them into your house and feed them?"

  • "Oh, no."

  • I know that what they're talking about, they have no real clarification of the use of words.

  • And then I begin to get confused because I want to know

  • what the other person means when he says, "I believe in social design. I'm a socialist."

  • Or I meet another guy says, "I'm a communist."

  • I say, "How do you prevent corruption under communism?"

  • "I don't know."

  • I say, "How will you house the millions of people who need housing?"

  • "I don't know."

  • Then just say, "Tell me more about what you believe in." They have no information.

  • Then I met a friend of mine or an acquaintance, not really that close,

  • and he told me he was running for political office.

  • I said, "I'm so sorry to hear that."

  • He didn't get the message.

  • Of course he didn't get it. He said, "What do you mean by that?"

  • I said, "As politicians..." I've met many of them in Washington.

  • I said, "How would you stop cars from hitting each other?"

  • "I don't know."

  • "How would you increase the agricultural yield without exhausting the soil?"

  • "I don't know." "Well, what do you know about the physical world?"

  • "Well, I guess I'm not technical."

  • I said, "You understand that everything we have today:

  • your cameras, your car, your airplanes, your communications

  • are all technical. And a politician is not a technician.

  • I don't know what they can do. I really don't know what they understand."

  • I said, "When you fly in a commercial airliner today

  • you don't have to call the pilot and say, 'You've been flying at an angle. Straighten up.' "

  • He knows his business. The navigator knows how to get to where you're going.

  • And it's all done by some branch of technology.

  • Is technology the answer? No.

  • It was more answers than non-technology.

  • "Be good. Be kind." What do you mean by that?

  • To me it means that everyone should have access to a relevant education.

  • All people all over the world need clean air,

  • clean water, arable land, and a relevant education.

  • Relevant means no advertising, no lawyers, no business men, no investment bankers,

  • people that have the ability to make food grow, take care of physical injury.

  • Those are the real people. I don't know of any other kind of people.

  • But there are people called philosophers,

  • which sit back and meditate on their navel,

  • or go into a room and free their mind of all kinds of thought

  • and come up with wonderful answers: "What is needed in a world is peace and harmony."

  • "How do you attain that?" "I don't know."

  • I say, "You don't have a method of solving a problem."

  • They say, "I don't know what you're talking about, Jacque."

  • I said, "Well, if I had anything to do with it (with the running of a nation)

  • I would take down signs "Drive Carefully, Slippery When Wet".

  • I'd put abrasive in the highway so it's not slippery when wet.

  • There are other signs "School District. 14 mph."

  • The power output would be 14 mph.

  • So you can step on the gas all you want to.

  • And it says, "Danger. School children crossing."

  • I'd design a gadget that looks like this

  • and when a kid presses the button to cross the street, he can't go across

  • until the red light goes on and the pavement turns up like that,

  • like a cone. So no car can hit a kid.

  • That's how I say I care. I don't know what it means

  • "I believe in peace and harmony and goodwill."

  • I understand the language, but I know it has no backup.

  • The Venus Project differs from other projects in that when I said to myself,

  • "How are we going to change people?"

  • I said, "I don't know." So I joined the Ku Klux Klan.

  • Did you know about that? (Interviewer: No, I didn't.) In Miami.

  • And I dissolved it in a month and a half.

  • There were 32 members including the head guy.

  • After that I joined the White Citizen's Council. They hate foreigners.

  • I joined by identification. I identified with them.

  • But I always worked on their leader and I dissolved it in one month alone.

  • Then, when I came back to New York from California, I asked a lot of people,

  • "Well, who are the most backward people in the area?"

  • They said the Arabs. They said they still believed the earth is flat.

  • I said to myself, "I'm going to see if I can dissolve that group."

  • But before I did I found out who the leader was.

  • His name was Elbaz. I called him on the phone.

  • I said, "Elbaz, can I come and talk to you?" I know his dialect.

  • He said, "You are Arab?" That's the way he spoke.

  • I said, "Eah". It means "yes" in Arabic.

  • I speak many little bits of language, German, French, a little bit.

  • So, what I did is I asked Elbaz if I could see him.

  • He said, "From where your father he born?" I said, "Lebanon."

  • He said, "Come and saw me." Means, come and see me.

  • So he said to me... when I got to see him, alone,

  • "You believe the world he round?" I said "Yes." He went "Tsk-tsk."

  • In his country that means, that's ridiculous.

  • Then he held his hand up like this and he pointed to his head. I'm telling you exactly what he did.

  • He said, "If the world he round, man fall me down here.

  • All the water, he fall me down from the world."

  • He said to me, "You saw what I'm telling you?"

  • I said, "Eah."

  • So I gave him my balloon (I brought the balloon there)

  • and I rubbed it with fur real fast

  • and I put some corn flakes in his hand and told him to hold his hand

  • 10 inches away from the balloon.

  • Do you know what happens with corn flakes if you rub it with fur? (Interviewer: I don't.)

  • Electrostatically, they move up and adhere to the balloon.

  • It's called static electricity.

  • His jaw hit the pavement after the corn flakes went all over the balloon. (Interviewer: And didn't fall off.)

  • He said, "World, he magnet?" I said, "Eah".

  • "Aah!" And he explained that to all the others. Interviewer: So, you showed him some evidence.

  • Jacque: It took an hour and a half and I turned them around.

  • You don't turn people around with logic. It doesn't work at all.

  • Interviewer: Evidence is what they like.

  • Jacque: Well, for him, what he considers evidence. Not what I consider evidence.

  • Then I thought, in the Bible it said, "Honor thy father and mother."

  • My mother was a racist and a bigot.

  • She hated foreigners, Japanese, Blacks... And I brought a Japanese kid home one day.

  • She said, "I don't want that kind around."

  • So I used reason, as a dummy.

  • I was a kid and I thought reason is the bridge. It didn't work at all.

  • So I said, "If you can't get to your mother you can't change the world."

  • Do you want to know how I changed the clan and my mother? (Interviewer: Sure.)

  • I befriended a guy named Lou Merlin, who was head of the clan in Miami of that group.

  • And he had a war surplus store. Do you know what that is?

  • Interviewer: Yeah, Army Navy store.

  • Jacque: I used to buy lenses.

  • And he said, "What do you do with this stuff you buy?"

  • I said, "Lou, you're welcome to come to my lab and see what I do with it."

  • And I did different optical devices.

  • And he said, "You're a smart guy. What do you think of the Klan?"

  • I said, "It's a great organization but it doesn't go far enough."

  • See, if you attack, it doesn't work.

  • He said, "What do you mean it doesn't go far enough?"

  • I said, "Lou..." After he visited my lab he respected me. And here's what he said,

  • "Will you come on down to the Klan and talk to our boys about what you're doing."

  • I said, "Lou, they wouldn't listen to me. You know."

  • He said, "I'll get them to listen to you. You're a smart guy."

  • I said, "Lou, if you can do that, that'd be fine."

  • So he said, "I want you to listen to this here Jacque. He knows what he's talking about."

  • Because he was impressed by things I showed him.

  • I can tell you what I showed him too, later on if you want to know.

  • Anyway, he said to me... After I talked to his guys a little while...

  • I tried to talk to them about animal training because they were interested in dogs. They hunt a lot.

  • So I showed them some films I did on a bunch of animals that I had trained

  • that sit at a table and I bring food there (It's real) and they eat it.

  • And I said, "Before I worked on animals, I worked on insects."

  • I paint formic acid on a tin can, put an ant on and the ant would follow the formic acid.

  • He never said, "Wait a while, I've been here before."

  • He never walked off unless I painted the formic acid off the can.

  • And then I know that most insects respond to sounds, chemicals, light.

  • Then I worked on animals. My greatest difficulty was snakes.

  • In conditioning snakes I didn't even know how to start. This was when I was a kid.

  • What I did is I put a black and brown mice in with the snakes,

  • and the snake would center his head and grab the mouse.

  • You'd see the hind legs kicking. Now it's funny how he swallowed it.

  • The teeth have back grate and they move up and back,

  • shoving it down the throat. He didn't swallow.

  • Then I wanted him not to bother the white mouse.

  • So I put a white mouse in there and I put a glass partition between the white mouse and the snake.

  • And he'd center his head on the white mouse and hit the glass.

  • And after 10 or 15 times,

  • when the white mouse was anywhere within the area of the snake it wouldn't make an attempt.

  • So I pulled the glass out then and the white mouse could go anywhere in that cage,

  • but the snake would only eat the dark mouse.

  • And the next thing I did is photograph the white mouse

  • sitting on the snake's head. You know, going like this.

  • And the snake was moving around, never bothered the white mouse. Interviewer: You conditioned the snake.

  • Jacque: Yeah. Then I said, "What about nature, like jealousy?

  • Is that inborn? Is that an instinct? Or is it learned?"

  • So I talked to a psychologist about it.

  • He said, "No, it's a natural thing, jealousy.

  • It's all over the world, in every animal."

  • I said, "Give me an example."

  • He said, "Well, if I reach for my cat, the dog growls.

  • But particularly if I put it on my lap and stroke it."

  • I said, "Is that what you mean by jealousy?"

  • He says, "That's what I mean by jealousy." That's an operational definition.

  • So I said, "If it's instinctive I'm going to try to find out."

  • I would feed the dog a little bit of fresh liver and then reach for the cat.

  • And keep feeding the dog fresh liver and then after 10 or 15 times,

  • when I reached for the cat, the dog's tail would wag.

  • If it's inborn that wouldn't happen. The dog would still growl.

  • I had to reject that.

  • I began to talk to scientists. Mostly psychologists in the old days.

  • And I said, "Why do you adjust people to this system? It's unsane."

  • That's what they do. They have to be stupid to do that

  • because psychologists are brought up with the routine of behavior,

  • and they are given the statistics that are not always accurate.

  • And so, I began to do a lot of work myself.

  • My grandfather changed me in certain ways.

  • He said, "Jacque, people came from all over the world to America

  • and they brought the printing press, the Arabs brought algebra

  • that's the name in Arab, algebraand the Arabs gave us mathematics and the zero.

  • And different nations gave us a printing press

  • and the language. We speak botched English in America.

  • My grandfather said, "If you love the earth, pledge allegiance to the Earth and everyone on it.

  • If you pledge allegiance to any one nation, you're negating all the other people."

  • And that made sense to me.

  • My grandfather in other areas was not sane. He was unsane.

  • He believed that there are people who lived under the ground that looked like us

  • that were replicas with chicken feet, webbed foot.

  • There were certain areas of my grandfather's behaviors that made sense.

  • In school I refused to pledge allegiance to the flag.

  • Apparently the teacher I had at that time didn't like that.

  • She grabbed me by the ear, dragged me all the way down the hall to the principal's office.

  • I was only about 14 then.

  • And she said to the principal, "He doesn't want to pledge allegiance to the flag."

  • So, the principal looked at the teacher and said, "You're excused. You can go back now."

  • Then he put his arms around me. He said, "Why don't you want to pledge allegiance. Everybody does."

  • I said, "Everybody once believed the Earth was flat. It doesn't make it flat."

  • So he said, "What do you think of American history?"

  • I'm giving you the guts of what changed me.

  • I said, "Well, everybody in history books says the right thing and does the right thing.

  • It doesn't sound like real people. They make mistakes. They have errors in judgment.

  • They don't have any of that in history books. Everybody looks right."

  • So he said, "Well, what do you think of the teaching we do in school?"

  • I said, "When a teacher says to a child, 'That's wrong',

  • there's no information in that language for a child to work with.

  • Or "That's not what I told you". There's no information in that.

  • He said, "What is information?"

  • I said, "If a child spells cat with K, say you're very close.

  • Draw the two letters that are close and change the K to a C.

  • But don't say that's wrong because it has no...."

  • He says, "I'm going to have to call your mother in."

  • I said, "Do what you have to do."

  • So my mother comes in crying, the usual.

  • "What did he do?" She's going like that.

  • And he says, "He didn't do anything but we really have no place for him in our schools."

  • She said, "Oh my God. What's going to happen to him?"

  • He says, "I don't think you have to worry about that

  • because I'm going to take him to the bookstore and buy him whatever books he wants to read,

  • and let him read what he wants to read in school. I'll rope off the area.

  • And I want him to come to me once a week and tell me what he's reading and why he's reading that."

  • I'll have to tell you a little bit about the other bits before I continue. Can I?

  • Interviewer: Yeah. Of course. Yeah. We've got plenty of time.

  • Jacque: Well, I wanted to know how airplanes fly, as a kid, on this thin substance.

  • I could not understand it.

  • So I asked my mother and father and my relatives. They had no information.

  • I finally went to the library and got out a book called The Wright Brothers.

  • And I was very anxious because for years I wanted to know.

  • I opened that book with great anxiety and it starts out,

  • "It was a sunny day in May and Mrs. Orville Wright was hanging clothing on the line."

  • I didn't want to know that. That bothered me.

  • And I had to go through the whole book with "sunny day in May".

  • And near the end of the book they killed the pigeon.

  • And they put wiring in its wings to keep him out there.

  • And they moved the wings up and back to find the center of gravity and launched it.

  • That was information. And when I went back to school and looked at the books,

  • most of it was "sunny day in May". I lot of bullshit and little information.

  • So I began to read and scratch the bullshit, the "sunny day in May," and look for substance.

  • So I was able to read more substance than "sunny day in May."

  • Then he died in about a year and a half after he set that up,

  • and they took away that privilege.

  • So I played hooky. I didn't go to school for six weeks.

  • One day I came home and the truant officer was sitting on my doorstep.

  • He said, "Are you Jacque Fresco?" I said, "Yes."

  • "You haven't been to school for a month."

  • I said, "Six weeks." He said, "That's right."

  • He said, "What do you do when you're not in school?"

  • I said, "I go to the library and I read what I want to read.

  • I go to the Museum of Science and Industry and look at what I want to look at."

  • He said, "Do you hang out in gangs?

  • Do you use drugs?" I said, "No. I'm not interested in that."

  • He asked me, "What do you do at home?"

  • I said, "I have a little lab. It's not very elaborate."

  • He said, "Can I see it?"

  • I said, "Under a condition that you don't tell my mother who you are

  • because she would become hysterical." He said, "I agree."

  • I shook hands with him and I showed him my lab. Then he said,

  • "I can't say you're wrong. You're not doing anything bad."

  • He said, "You can do me a favor if you want to."

  • I said, "What kind of favor."

  • He said, "Show up Monday just to show that I did my job.

  • Then you can play hooky all you want to."

  • I liked the guy. He was a nice guy and I did that and I never went back to school.

  • I began to hitchhike toward California.

  • Why? Because airplanes dropped pamphlets.

  • They said, "Come to California. There's lots of jobs."

  • And I couldn't get a job. My father couldn't get a job. This is during the Depression.

  • The banks failed. They paid off a new home.

  • They didn't pay it off. They made down payments, several payments.

  • When the banks failed, they couldn't continue the payments.

  • 15 million people in my area were sleeping in every empty lot.

  • That was the beginning of social conscience.

  • I looked at store windows: there were phonographs (you know, the thing you wind up).

  • There were all kinds of things available but they didn't have money.

  • They were good people. They made shacks.

  • And at the same time I read there was going to be a bonus march on Washington

  • by the veterans of World War I. That's years after the war.

  • The government promised soldiers 600 bucks

  • but they didn't have the money at the time to give these millions of guys 600 bucks.

  • So they marched on Washington with their uniforms, their medals, crutches, wheelchairs,

  • and they were sleeping in every empty lot around the capital.

  • Well, I was a kid in Washington watching that

  • and General Douglas MacArthur (I don't know if you ever heard of him), he was a captain then.

  • The Senate said, "Get those guys out of here. It doesn't look good."

  • So he ordered them to leave and they said, "Not until we get our bonus."

  • So he threw... had his troops throw tear gas at them.

  • And that bothered me, no end.

  • Interviewer: Were they tear gassing soldiers? Jacque: Yes. Tear gassing veterans.

  • They wanted their bonus that the government promised them.

  • And then I said to myself, "This shit's got to go."

  • It would look very bad to me.

  • Because there was stuff around. Farmers grew food

  • but people didn't have the money to buy it, so their crops were rotting away.

  • And I noticed... At that time it was the Depression...

  • You'll have to take my word for it because you weren't around then.

  • There were people up on soapboxes with an American flag and a Nazi flag,

  • talking about the Nazi point of view.

  • There were socialists, communists, Mankind United, all kinds of people talking of new ideas.

  • It was the Depression that stimulated that.

  • When they lost confidence in their elected leaders.

  • Interviewer: Kind of like we have now. Jacque: Yes. Exactly.

  • I was standing in front of a communist speaking,

  • and he said, "Beat it, Sonny."

  • Because I was just 16 or so and they were all adults.

  • No kids were interested in that.

  • I was standing there and he said, "I told you to beat it."

  • I said, "I want to hear what you've got to say." He said, "Why?"

  • "Because I don't believe what the Democrats say about the Republicans and what Republicans say about Democrats.

  • I want to hear from a communist what communism is." He said, "You can stay."

  • An hour later he said to me... I said to him rather,

  • "I want to ask you a thousand questions."

  • He said, "You have to go to the YCL." I said, "What's that?"

  • He said, "Young Communist League."

  • I said, "Where are they?" He gave me an address and I went there.

  • And there were kids, boys and girls, 10 years to 17,

  • and they were reading books like Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment".

  • The kids were not typical. They were different than normal. They were much brighter.

  • I waited until the meeting was over and I raised my hand and said,

  • "How are you going to prevent corruption when communism comes in?

  • And how are you going to house the masses?"

  • He said, "Well, when that time comes we'll work on it."

  • I said, "Look. It sounds very humane.

  • Let's start a technical branch of the communist party and work on mass housing."

  • They said, "You're a deviationist." I said, "What's that?"

  • "You're deviating from the teachings of Marx."

  • I said, "I'm trying to help. I'd help anybody."

  • So he said, "You'll have to leave. You're deviating from Marx."

  • But the Vice President of the Young Communist League said, "Let's hear him out."

  • And they kicked us both out. This guy was dumb, I think,

  • because I was only going to help anybody.

  • Anyway, after they kicked us out,

  • that was the time I hitchhiked to California.

  • And this woman driving a car...

  • Descriptively she must have weighed over 300 pounds,

  • brand new car, big hat with cherries and feathers.

  • That was normal when I was a kid.

  • She opened the door part of the way. She said, "Are you a Christian?"

  • I said, "What else?" She said, "Get in."

  • She let me in the car and I fell asleep because I hadn't slept for days walking on the road,

  • and she poked me in the ribs. She really did hurt me.

  • "You're not sleeping in my car."

  • I said, "What do you want me to do?" "I want you to sing all the way to Texas."

  • I said, "What do you want me to sing?"

  • "Jesus loves methis I know, For the Bible tells me so..."

  • I had to sing all the way to Texas, but I realized that

  • as a religious person, she didn't understand what she was reading.

  • She didn't understand the Bible.

  • When I got to California

  • I went to where the airplanes said there're jobs.

  • There were hundreds of people there,

  • and the guy said, "Will you work for eight cents an hour? Will you work for seven cents an hour?"

  • and picked the low bidder and that was very cruel to me.

  • I hitchhiked to one of the aircraft factories

  • and I was about nearly 18, and I said, "I'd like a job." They said,

  • "Are you a draftsman? An engineer? Do you understand aerodynamics?"

  • I said, "No."

  • "We can't hire you. You're not even a high school graduate."

  • I said, "That's true."

  • So I showed him my drawings. And he said, "You're hired."

  • I said, "What do you want me to do?" "Just think up ideas."

  • I said, "What are your problems?"

  • He said, "Well, when a big plane lands..." I'm giving you detail.

  • The big tires sometimes cost ten thousand dollars a piece

  • on a Ford-Trimotor or a Condor, and the tires wear out fast.

  • So I put vanes on the side of the wheel. When the landing gear...

  • When you're in the air the wheel would turn. But the landing gear was retractable.

  • When they take them out, the wheels would turn by the vanes on the side.

  • Everything I thought of belonged to that company.

  • I worked there for some time. And the guy said, "The first three weeks you were here, Jacque,

  • you made more contributions to the aircraft industry than the history of aviation."

  • That's the chief draftsman. And he said to me,

  • "How do you think up all these things?"

  • I said, "That's a long story."

  • So he invited me to his home to dinner and I explained it.

  • He said, "I want you to meet the chief aerodynamicist."

  • That's a guy that studies airflow over wings and around surfaces.

  • He told him that I did not believe in the Bernoulli principle.

  • Do you know what that is? (Interviewer: No.)

  • Air flowing over the top of the wing covers a greater distance

  • and creates a partial vacuum. Two-thirds of the lift comes

  • from the top of the wing, not the bottom.

  • So I built a model wing to test that out.

  • In order to deflect air up this way, you had to take a download in the wing.

  • You understand? If air hits and gets deflected that way. If you hold...

  • Interviewer: Yeah. You would think it would push the wing down.

  • Jacque: That's a resultant. So you get nothing for nothing.

  • I was telling Ford, the guy who hired me, that I didn't accept the Bernoulli principle.

  • He told that to the chief aerodynamicist

  • and he came over and said, "You don't accept the Bernoulli principle?"

  • I said, "No. I only don't accept certain aspects of it."

  • He said, "I don't even want to talk to you," and he walked away.

  • Very famous guy, Dr. Kline.

  • And that was the first time I encountered a scientist that was unscientific.

  • He should have said, "What is it you have against it?"

  • If he were a scientist he would have tried to help me if I were wrong.

  • And so, I began to think, gee, if a scientist behaves like that

  • then I mustn't honor scientists. I have to check them out. Each one of them.

  • I said, that's a tough job. So I got into a field called General Semantics.

  • The book is called "Science and Sanity" by Alfred Korzybski.

  • He began to tell me that words people use are not information.

  • They're just names they get in school.

  • And that book really made me aware of language, communication.

  • I began to study semantics.

  • Followed by another book called "Tyranny of Words" by Stuart Chase.

  • That would help you if you're really interested in the history of language.

  • I got "Mind in the Making" by James Harvey Robinsonhow we get to be the way we are.

  • And all of those books were based on experiment, not on sheer philosophy.

  • So I became highly experimental.

  • Following that I was working on a certain airplane called the DB-7,

  • Douglas Bomber 7.

  • And I didn't work on the bombing mechanisms. They always asked me to.

  • I said I don't know how to do that. Only safety devices for aircraft.

  • And that plane had a tendency... I built a model of it and put it into a spin tunnel,

  • and it went into a spin right away.

  • Instead of a diving spin. It was a flat spin.

  • An aerodynamics book said that most flat spins are fatal. The planes could not pull out.

  • So I went to work on that problem, and showed Ford

  • if you turned your wingtips this way, you can stop a flat spin.

  • He said, "Great. I'm going to take out a patent on it,"

  • in the name of Douglas Division of Northrop Aircraft.

  • Interviewer: Rather than the name of Jacque Fresco.

  • Jacque: Yeah. Everything you think of whether you're at home or not is taken by the company you work for.

  • And I thought that was unjust. I thought that was unfair.

  • I never got an increase in pay or anything.

  • Eventually it [a DB-7 without my modification] went into a flat spin [and crashed],

  • and Ford said to me, "We're in now." We both were asked to resign.

  • Do you understand? Interviewer: Yeah.

  • Jacque: Because the establishment would have been held responsible.

  • I was looking for justice. I thought it was unfair.

  • And then I realized there's no justice.

  • That free enterprise shifts things out because it costs less than making it here in America.

  • That cigarettes kill people but the government gets a good piece of the action,

  • that means they didn't care for people.

  • That was the evidence I had. And whiskey and all that junk food which goes out to people,

  • and then the artificial contamination of plants by genetics without long-term testing.

  • That was dangerous... to genetically alter a plant,

  • where you could grow things organically, but never a mono plant system.

  • You have to have mixtures of different plants that reinforce one another.

  • So I began to turn away from commercial agriculture, commercial science. You understand?

  • I was interested in science but they were owned by corporations.

  • Scientists made nuclear weapons.

  • A guy named Albert Einstein wrote a formula and he helped.

  • And Szilard and Oppenheimer worked on the atom bomb.

  • And in the Bible there was something useful. It said,

  • "Cast ye not peril before swine." Do you know what that means? (Interviewer: No.)

  • Don't give people things that they're not ready to use intelligently.

  • Technology became a lever of the armed forces and government

  • where they worked on killing machines. Because they were patriotic.

  • In Germany, the German scientists, some of them left,

  • but most of them stayed and made weapons.

  • In Italy, the Catholic engineers made airplanes against America.

  • In America the American Catholics made planes.

  • And the priests used to dip their stick in holy water and bless the airplanes and the war tanks.

  • Whereas in the Bible it says, "Thou shalt not kill. Love thy enemy. Turn the other cheek."

  • Interviewer: I always felt the irony in having priests and chaplains in the military was delicious irony.

  • Jacque: I'm telling you my background, which I think you ought to know. I just didn't come up with these ideas.

  • The way I was raised, I was forced to encounter those things.

  • Interviewer: You've seen quite a few things in your 94 years. So, I need to ask,

  • one of the boogeymen of the whole truth movement is David Rockefeller.

  • You and he are the same age. What is the secret of your longevity?

  • Jacque: There is no secret. There is a lot of work to do.

  • And I don't think in terms of eating to live. I eat.

  • And I like certain foods and I dislike other food.

  • But I was an organic vegetarian for years

  • until I read a book by Chunder Bose, which I never heard of.

  • Interviewer: Good name, Chunder. Jacque: Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose.

  • He was from Bose Institute in India.

  • He went to the science convention in England

  • and he explained what he was doing and they laughed him out.

  • He was a plant physiologist.

  • And years later some British scientists went to his lab

  • and they found out what he was doing was so...

  • Because what he was doing was so radical.

  • He took some living tissue and stretched it across two terminals.

  • He put a candle underneath it to see if he could register pain.

  • And he had an oscillo... no oscilloscope in those days,

  • but he had projected it on the wall by a mirror which moved very slightly.

  • But on the wall he got the patterns of the oscilloscope. And he said that

  • copper wire showed the same reaction as living substance.

  • He had difficulty... What a person means by life and non-life?

  • He said, "Well, the sun is inorganic but without it

  • all the plants would die and man eventually would die and all the animals.

  • And that's inorganic."

  • He failed to separate the organic with the inorganic.

  • They're all part of a common chain.

  • And his book was so different that it changed me. And I saw cancer on rabbits,

  • vegetarians, trees, dinosaur bones. I began to look into things.

  • Then I said, "What about the things that are beyond science,

  • the physical? The metaphysical, the telekinesis?"

  • Do you know what that is? (Interviewer: Yes.) Moving objects without touching them.

  • There're so many people that believed in that.

  • I said, "Jacque, why don't you check that out?"

  • And I read about a guy named, I forgot his name offhand, but anyway...

  • (Roxanne: Astoya.) Astoya! And he was from, I think it was from India.

  • And he said he never used the telephone. He has the power of telepathy.

  • And he said he never used a telephone in his life. He can always read a human mind.

  • So I said, "If he can do that, the hell with science. What am I busting my butt for? It takes a long time."

  • I and about 10 other people brought him from India to America.

  • And I said, "Sir, if you can read my mind just once,

  • I will shout it from the highest towers and tell everybody about it."

  • He says, "Well, I do it all the time."

  • So I said to him, "If you're going to read my mind,

  • do you want a full moon? What are your major options?" He said, "No. Anytime."

  • So I said, "Do you want me to face the East or West?" I wanted to give him the best conditions.

  • He said, "No. Just think of something."

  • I said, "What if it's technical?"

  • He said, "Well, I won't use the terminology you use but I will describe the event."

  • I said, "That's fair enough." But before that,

  • I noticed him working with people.

  • He was talking to a woman about 78 years old

  • and said, "There was a death in your family, either three months or past three years."

  • There's always a death in your family when you're 74 years old.

  • It seemed to me he was working with probability.

  • You know what I mean? Interviewer: The Astoya guy was working with probability.

  • Jacque: But that doesn't mean that he can't do that. Interviewer: No. But he can't prove it.

  • Jacque: So let me tell you what I did.

  • I pictured a little white mouse, due to my background, eating an elephant,

  • not getting any larger and walking out of the building.

  • If there is telepathy, if he gave me that... Interviewer: If he figured that out.

  • Jacque: I'm convinced. But he didn't give me an answer.

  • So I felt maybe that didn't work that time. Maybe he could really do that.

  • I then pictured a carpenter's saw made of metal. Can you picture that?

  • With two legs and it walks into the forest like this

  • and a tree looks at the saw, and the tree cuts the saw in half.

  • That's outside of probability. Do you know what I mean?

  • If he got that there was telepathy.

  • He didn't get it. He didn't get anything I thought of.

  • But he did, when a young girl came over...

  • There were only six questions or so.

  • Why don't I have as many dates as my sister?

  • And he'd give a typical story but he never did any real mind reading.

  • He did work with probability.

  • And when the girl leaned forward he was on the right track;

  • she leaned back he changed the subject.

  • Then I met another couple that said they do telepathy every day,

  • and had them come over to my home.

  • And I said, "Would you mind demonstrating it?" The guy said, "No."

  • He said, "I want you to go off from your own books,

  • bring out six or seven or ten movie actors, or ten presidents."

  • And he said, "Don't even whisper the names. Just point."

  • And I pointed at [Millard] Fillmore. This was the first time I ever met the guy.

  • He said, "Now, you call this guy in England, Mr. Truckmore." Do you know this story?

  • I called Mr. Truckmore in England.

  • He said, "I see a president with two puffs of hair on the side and his name is [Millard] Fillmore."

  • Then I pointed to a movie actor. I think it was Gary Grant, if you know who he is.

  • Anyway, I pointed it out. "Call this guy in New Jersey, Smithson."

  • I called him. He said, "I see a tall skinny actor,

  • an Englishman named Gary Grant." Right away.

  • That was the best I've seen up to then. Here's how it works.

  • Before I went out to investigate that,

  • I read everything I could on show business mental telepathy,

  • hundreds of books at the library, and you can get them at the Magician Society.

  • You're not qualified as an investigator unless you know something about the field first.

  • Here's what I found out. He has a friend in England

  • named Truckmore. If you asked Mr. Smith, he's got a list. Smith means Gary Grant.

  • Johnson means this actor.

  • The way he tells these presidents depends on the name you asked for.

  • Do you understand that, or not?

  • By the way, I want to tell you, there was a friend of mine who was an engineer and he said,

  • "There's a Reverend May Taylor in California

  • that has a church called The Church of the Living Dead." That's the name. I don't...

  • She goes through the whole audience.

  • "You had a son killed in an automobile accident on February the 8th."

  • Right down everybody in the audience.

  • I went to that church because if that's true,

  • then my system is limited.

  • I didn't sign the guest book.

  • When you enter you can sign the guestbook.

  • That's what they do with a lot of telepathists, soothsayers.

  • When you sign the guest book they say have a seat and they go back to see if they got anything on you.

  • You go to the hall of records in a small town.

  • "You had a brother killed in an automobile accident on February the 4th."

  • And they build a record from the hall of records.

  • So when you come in, they say "Would you sign the guest book?",

  • the minute you sign it, they go back to see if they have information on you.

  • I just want to tell you why.

  • I didn't sign the guestbook and she went over everybody in the church and skipped over me,

  • but that doesn't mean that she can't do that.

  • So I asked 10 friends of mine to go to that church and sit

  • separately but don't sign the guestbook.

  • I wanted to check around to see if she was real. And she skipped over those 10 people.

  • What conclusion can I draw? You understand?

  • Reverend May Taylor made millions.

  • Okay? And I didn't like what I saw.

  • Now, the guy that sent me there was sincere, but he didn't know how it was done.

  • Then two priests came to my seminar,

  • and they said to me, "Jacque, the trouble with you is you want to work in the material world.

  • There are things beyond the material world."

  • There was a woman in Palm Springs, California

  • that had the power, they said, of telekinesis,

  • moving things without touching them.

  • I said, "Call her and ask if I can come there."

  • And the priests said, "Yes," and they did call. And she said, "Yes".

  • I said, "Ask her if I could check it out while it's happening.

  • Because I really want to know if it's true.

  • I don't come as a skeptic trying to disprove it.

  • I wanted to know." She said, "Of course."

  • I went to the hall of records before I went to her house.

  • Her father was a magician, her husband rather.

  • He died 10 years ago.

  • Now, normal people will visit you for a while,

  • but if your wife dies, a year you're alone. Then they diminish the visits. That was statistical.

  • I went to meet her. She was very pleasant, very polite.

  • And she put this big vase on the table

  • and it started to move with the lights on and everything.

  • No strings or anything. So I took a fountain pen I had

  • and I held it near the table and I got a 60 cycle hum.

  • I peeled the veneer off and she had a bell buzzer upside down with four rubber chalk mounts on it.

  • The table was highly polished, slightly tilted.

  • So I said, "Father Dunn, Father Dempsey, come here and look."

  • And she said to me, "You son of a bitch. Get the hell out of here."

  • I said, "I'm not your enemy.

  • But if you tell these kids that are here today

  • that you have special powers, they don't work on problems.

  • See, if you pray and hope that it rains...

  • You have to dig an irrigation ditch if you have a drought to help the plants grow."

  • So I said to her, "I'm not your enemy.

  • I understand why you're doing this. Various people come to see you.

  • You're lonely. And when you do this you win approval and recognition."

  • So she put her arms around me. We were friends again.

  • But I did not try to destroy her.

  • I began to study as much metaphysics as I could: levitation, auras.

  • So far, I've never found anything.

  • Except in a book, a religious book.

  • This guy had a halo and many witnesses to that.

  • So I got another book called "Anomalies and Curiosities in Medicine."

  • There are many skin diseases that are luminescent.

  • Did you ever see luminescent waves?

  • Interviewer: Yeah, bio-luminescence, in the water.

  • Jacque: These skin diseases produce the luminescence and they thought they were holy men.

  • They were just not qualified observers.

  • A lot of that began to fall away in my background.

  • Everything in my background became related to,

  • "Do you have an operational definition for the words you use?"

  • If I use words, I must have a visual picture of what those words are based on.

  • And that did away with a lot of bullshit, just getting closer...

  • I got that from semantics. Then I met semanticists.

  • And asked them how they would change society. They didn't know.

  • They had all the words worked out, but they had no operational definitions,

  • that is to make society better.

  • Then I got to meet Italian kids in America.

  • The Italian kids spoke like this,

  • "Eh. Where ya goin, ah? May me get a ride on your bike?"

  • Means "May I use your bike?"

  • And then I met Irish kids and they'd say,

  • "There is a fine Irish lad, a good fellow from Dublin."

  • And I noticed how their dialect reflected where they were coming from.

  • And the Southerners, "I'm gonna git me a nigger and kick his ass."

  • Reflection, facial movements, everything.

  • Then I noticed in France, they use their hands,

  • "Viva la France. Viva la tour Eiffel." The Eiffel Tower.

  • And how their lips moved, facial expressions, exactly reflecting the culture they came from.

  • But if they lived in Germany 10 years and came to America,

  • they spoke with a German American accent.

  • "Gott im Himmel". Means God in heaven.

  • And I noticed their facial expressions, language.

  • And if they came from a certain area of Spain,

  • with the high people in the court, one of them lisped when he spoke.

  • And all that Spanish had lisps in it.

  • Interviewer: Yeah. They all came from...

  • Jacque: You have to understand the impact of environment.

  • They say, "How do you know there are no genuine

  • people that can sense things people can't sense?"

  • So I would ask them... A person would come to me and says,

  • "I belong to a new group, well educated. Higher Consciousness."

  • I said, "What is that?"

  • "We're people who have evolved far beyond the average person."

  • So I said, "Are you a member?" The guy says, "Yes."

  • "Are you a member of the Higher Consciousness?" He said, "Yes."

  • I said, "Where are your kidneys?"

  • "I'm not sure."

  • So I said, "How fast is the blood moving in your veins and arteries?"

  • "I don't know that."

  • I said, "What do you mean by higher consciousness?"

  • If I can't check it out, how do I know what higher consciousness means?

  • I know what he thinks it means. He doesn't.

  • So anyway, I went to Trinidad

  • because I read in a book that they could walk over red hot coals by state of mind.

  • I said, "Boy, if they could do that?" You put meat on fire, it cooks.

  • And if you can have a state of mind where you can walk over red hot coals, I want to know about it.

  • I went to Trinidad because there was an Indian colony.

  • And I read that they could walk over read hot coals.

  • I went there and they do burn these coals until they have an ash,

  • a white ash, an inch and a half thick.

  • And they don't walk over red hot coals.

  • They move very fast over the ash. (So I did.) Interviewer: Over the powder ash.

  • Jacque: I walked over the same thing.

  • Then another guy came to me with a long needle,

  • a crochet needle, pulled his skin together and ran it right through his face too.

  • He says, "I don't feel pain." I had a friend that was a doctor there.

  • I said, "This guy claims he can control his pulse rate,

  • make it faster or slower just by thinking."

  • And the doctor said, "He's doing that."

  • So I searched under his arm. He had a cork ball.

  • By pressing on the cork ball it weakened his pulse.

  • I said, "Here, doc." He said, "Gee, I didn't see that."

  • I said, "I know that. Here's how it's done." Do you understand?

  • Before you try to investigate anything, read everything you can.

  • Get information. Because it's information that's closer to reality.

  • Interviewer: Let's come back to The Venus Project. First of all,

  • why did you name it The Venus Project?

  • Jacque: Oh, because I used to call it Sociocyberneering.

  • Interviewer: Sociocyberneering?

  • Jacque: Yeah. Which means the application of science and technology

  • to the betterment of all the world's people and the restoration of the environment.

  • As long as you have separate nations you're going to have trouble.

  • Interviewer: Why Venus?

  • Jacque: Because later on we went looking for land to build an experimental center.

  • And I found some land in Venus that was not sprayed with poisons, toxic [...] on plants...

  • Interviewer: Venus, Florida? Jacque: Venus, Florida. Yeah.

  • Roxanne: Nobody could pronounce the word "Sociocyberneering".

  • It was before "cyber" became well known and popular.

  • So we named it The Venus Project. We live in Venus, Florida.

  • Interviewer: How did you meet Peter Joseph?

  • Jacque: Well, Peter Joseph ran Zeitgeist film, and a lot of people wrote him.

  • After the film they said, "Okay. What you say is interesting and informative,

  • but what do you do about it? How can you change things?" He said he didn't know.

  • Roxanne sent him a copy of the book I wrote called... It's about a world without money.

  • Roxanne: "The Best That Money Can't Buy".

  • Jacque: Yes. It's about the world that doesn't use money.

  • Roxanne: He found it extremely significant.

  • He came right out and started filming and a year later he put out Zeitgeist Addendum.

  • Jacque: He said, from now on he's going to talk about The Venus Project.

  • Because what he talked about was valid but it didn't offer people any solutions.

  • And all The Venus Project deals with is "how to" accomplish this, that, surgery, whatever.

  • I designed thousands of surgical instruments,

  • electronic and mechanical, safety devices for aircraft.

  • Interviewer: Why do so many people on the internet worry that there's a connection between

  • Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" and The Venus Project?

  • Jacque: Because they never investigated The Venus Project.

  • They think that it's machines that I want to use to run everything.

  • That isn't true. Here's where they get that from.

  • A pilot, when I was a kid, used to look out at an airplane and said, "I'm about a mile high."

  • Then some engineer invented Doppler radar.

  • It goes down to the ground, back up and tells you, "You're 5,400 feet 20 inches off the ground."

  • No human could do that. So I'd like to substitute that for aviator's decisions as to height.

  • I don't want the machine to take over. I just know I'd rather use that.

  • And in San Francisco it gets so foggy, you can't see three feet in front of you.

  • They found out that with infrared cameras they can photograph the runway.

  • A pilot using infrared can see the runway if he uses infrared cyberscope.

  • And that to me became extensional.

  • Now, you have to understand that word.

  • Technology to me is extensions of human attributes.

  • Without a microscope you can't see the way things are.

  • You can only see the way they are relative to your receptors.

  • But with the microscope... The first time I saw things under a microscope,

  • what looked smooth looked like hills and valleys.

  • So I said, "What's it really like?" And the guy blew it up again and it looked like slivers.

  • So I said, "Yeah, but what's it really like?"

  • He said, "That's a stupid question. It depends on your receptors."

  • With an electron microscope you can see particles floating around each other.

  • I thought I was looking for truth.

  • He said, "Man can't see truth. There are radio waves here that you can't see,

  • billions of bacteria on the table you can't see."

  • He said, "The search for truth is done by people that are sincere,

  • but have very little technical knowledge."

  • My vocabulary began to change and my attitude about a truth seeker.

  • In order to be a truth seeker you had to know everything. To know that which is true.

  • It became a ridiculous thing. I met a lot of people and read a lot of articles

  • about a young lady that was about to get into an airplane. She was about 16.

  • She said, something came over. She didn't know what.

  • But she didn't get in that plane and it took off, nosed down

  • and 150 people died. And she said, "Jesus saved me."

  • She was going to speak at the Hollywood Presbyterian Church. This was 40 years ago.

  • So I went there. She was telling the congregation how Jesus saved her,

  • all the feelings that came over her.

  • And they all said, "Amen. God bless you."

  • So I walked right up to the pulpit. I was not a member of that church.

  • I said, "He didn't want you. He wanted the 150 people."

  • That was just to show them, that little girl, that she was self-centered.

  • I waited outside the church to see if it affected anybody.

  • And they shook my hand. They said, "I'm so sorry.

  • I used to think that way too." Which is good.

  • I didn't want anybody...

  • Like when four of your kids were killed in a car accident

  • and one wasn't, the mother says, "Jesus saved him."

  • It's just where he was sitting in the car, in relation to the impact. You know what I mean?

  • So I began to think why are there car accidents?

  • Why can't we put a proximity device on car?

  • So if a guy wanted to run into you, he couldn't.

  • Because the proximity device would turn on your brakes.

  • Then, about nine, ten months ago now

  • there was an experiment in information retention.

  • And computers at that time could retain 1,000 trillion bits of information per second.

  • No human can do that.

  • So I want to put machines in Washington connected to industry,

  • production, agriculture, to get an overview of our capabilities.

  • Not to replace people that can do the job better.

  • And not to control people, only monitor agriculture.

  • Now, let me just tell you something I'm sure you don't know.

  • From 3000 miles up in space with infrared cameras

  • if you photograph the Amazon jungle you'll see all the sick trees as red, in a definite pattern.

  • The Earth turns under the infrared camera and we get a picture

  • of the state of disease of plants all over the world.

  • No human can do that. Those are the areas we wish to automate.

  • So we have a picture of the Earth

  • and we have a picture of the ocean, which comes out where it's contaminated in different colors.

  • And we can see contamination, deaths of the reefs all over the world. No human can do that.

  • Roxanne: People think that they're going to be taken over by machines because they think of it in terms of this society,

  • the monetary society, and I'd be scared shitless of machines taken over in this society.

  • In fact, that's what's happening. No matter how much you don't want machines to do things,

  • it doesn't make any difference. They're better than people.

  • They're faster in factories. And they're going to take over people's jobs.

  • But in this society they displace people and they hurt people.

  • People use machines to subvert other people and hold them down

  • and bomb them and kill them for resources.

  • So, it's not the machines we should be weary of. It's the abuse and misuse of machines.

  • And as long as we live within the monetary system, it's going to be more fascistic.

  • The machines will be more hurtful. That's why we want to...

  • That's why Jacque came up with the Resource-Based Economy because they wouldn't be used that way.

  • They couldn't be used that way if you understood what the Resource-Based Economy would be.

  • Interviewer: How do we convince people that that's not...?

  • Jacque: When I was about 17 I built a new kind of airplane.

  • I bet I'll even tell you how I did it.

  • I dropped a piece of balsa wood, and it rotated, to the earth, accidentally.

  • So I S-shaped it and it rotated faster.

  • I designed two wings on an airplane that rotate, not a propeller, just rotated.

  • And it went to the ground slowly, took off faster.

  • And when I went to a model airplane meeting,

  • most of the normal kids turned out normal airplanes.

  • I never did. I worked alone.

  • Some of them didn't fly. And I had to overcome the problems.

  • And I didn't depend on approval from other kids.

  • I depended on, I think I can solve this problem or that problem,

  • and I learned to do that alone.

  • But when I joined with other kids,

  • they walked over and said, "What the hell is that supposed to be."

  • They didn't say, "That's an interesting type aircraft. Does it work?" You know.

  • They didn't do that. And they appeared to be abnormal to me.

  • But made that way by associating with normal kids.

  • Then I began to disassociate with normal kids

  • and began to read and experiment.

  • But I was reinforced for it because when the teacher...

  • when the principal roped off the back of the class and he let me read what I wanted to read,

  • I was beaten up by normal kids.

  • And the aircraft factory, when this guy Ford roped off an area and said,

  • "Just think up new things," I was beaten up by the engineers. Can you understand that?

  • Interviewer: Yeah. Because they don't want you to deviate from...

  • Jacque: So I began to lose respect for education.

  • I began to look into universities and they were better equipped than ever

  • with technical equipment but the wars were getting worse.

  • They could bomb whole cities with nuclear [weapons] and wipe out thousands of people in a few seconds.

  • So I said, "There's something wrong with our culture, obviously." (Interviewer: Very much so.)

  • Jacque: So I went to work on a redesign of a culture. That's what made me start it.

  • And then the problem is how do you change people

  • who for years have been brought up... generations...

  • So I went back to China and started to study Chinese.

  • And I asked Chinese people, with correspondence,

  • "Was there ever a Chinese baby born that spoke Chinese

  • through the thousands of years of speaking Chinese?"

  • They said, "No. Always had to go to school."

  • Then I began to question, can people pass on experience to their young?

  • And I tried that in all languages.

  • No American, nor Englishman ever spoke English without going to school.

  • And if you took a Filipino baby and brought it up in Italy, he speaks just like an Italian.

  • You can't pass on acquired characteristics.

  • You could pass on double eyes or triple ears or multiple breasts,

  • but you can't pass on what you've learned.

  • If you're a mathematical genius, you can't pass it on to your kids.

  • But if you have a way of reaching those kids, you can give them the ability to do that.

  • Then, if you're born with a better brain, say, more neural transmitters...

  • Do you know what an idiot savant is?

  • It's a guy that can tell you if you say, "What happened in 1918, February the 2nd?"

  • "That's the day the first battleship was honored."

  • And they say, "Gee, what a fan..." But the guy in other areas is an idiot.

  • There were more neural transmitters in a regional area of the brain.

  • If you're born with a better brain than anybody, a better brain tissue,

  • more neural transmitters, you become a fascist faster.

  • But the brain has no mechanism for telling you that which is relevant or irrelevant.

  • That's based on experience. I noticed when a baby fox

  • sees a porcupine and it doesn't know what it is, it gets closer and closer

  • then it sniffs it and gets stuck and stays away.

  • And people say, "You see he learned." No, he was changed by the stick.

  • They use the word "learn".

  • An old man is walking around and says, "Man will never fly," and a plane flies over.

  • He says, "I've changed my mind." He didn't change his mind. He was changed by events.

  • Interviewer: Say, there are some very rich families or dynasties

  • which do run things in international finance or politics, you've got the Kennedys, the Rockefellers,

  • the Rothschilds, just to take the bigger examples.

  • These people to me obviously love power. Like Chairman Mao, Mao Zedong...

  • Jacque: I agree with you. Interviewer: They love power.

  • How would we convince them to have a more egalitarian society? Jacque: Here is how.

  • I have a friend named Henry Berliner.

  • He owned the Berliner-Joyce Aircraft factory.

  • And during the Depression I went to see him. And the government agents came over

  • and said, "We're taking over the factory." He said, "Why?"

  • "You haven't paid taxes for three years on it."

  • He said, "I have no orders for airplanes. Take the fucking factory. It's not doing anything."

  • And that's what happened in the States.

  • Chevrolet failed. The banks failed.

  • And we gave them, the same people who created the problem, money.

  • We bailed them out with public funds, educational funds.

  • And that tells you who runs the country. Obama did the same thing.

  • So I'm telling you that that will not change things

  • unless General Motors shows you a blueprint of a new car,

  • better than the Toyota, better mileage, then if you bail them out you've got a definite return.

  • But if they show nothing and you just bailed them out, it means they're basically corrupt.

  • Now, they already lost their factories but we bailed them out.

  • This time there is no bailout.

  • We never had a condition where we went to war where everybody didn't prosper.

  • Now, you have wars all over the world and people aren't prospering.

  • With nuclear wars it takes three days, there is no time for profit.

  • Do you understand? So you can't make any money.

  • So, I say if they were to conscript you to serve in the Army (this way I talk to soldiers),

  • they should conscript all the war industries so no one makes a buck out of war. Then it's real.

  • I talk that way to soldiers. They say, "Gee, that's right."

  • But if you say, "You're just killing people." They say, "What are you? Some kind of foreign agent?"

  • Show them what's missing. And if you can't do it linguistically do it with films.

  • Now films can get to millions of people. I can't.

  • I travel around the world. I may talk to maybe 500 people in an audience

  • and convince them. I think I know how to do that.

  • But there are millions of people. And with movies you can get to millions of people in one month.

  • That's why I recommend movies.

  • I would show movies of how I got to be the way I am.

  • I would show movies with things that I really didn't talk to you about.

  • That man cannot think or reason. All that's bullshit.

  • And I'd show how the mind works,

  • how we get to be creative, what creativity is.

  • People write about it: "The man is very creative. They're a born genius.

  • They have fantastic inheritance or they're gifted."

  • If a person's gifted why give him a medal?

  • If you're born a mathematician. You know what I mean? Why honor them?

  • Why have a beauty contest? The girl didn't make her face.

  • If it was made of mud and she shaped everything, you can give her a medal.

  • But if she's born that way, why honor them?

  • So anyway, I began to dissect the culture,

  • all over the world, and they're all full of shit, all cultures.

  • It's easier for us to say Fresco is full of shit than all the world.

  • Interviewer: Why do people on the Internet associate The Venus Project with the elite depopulation agenda?

  • Jacque: Well, first of all, one world according to General Motors is their one world.

  • According to the Federal Reserve and banking system

  • their idea of one world is with them in control.

  • See, that's the world where a lot of normal people don't know enough about The Venus Project.

  • So they always liken what I say to communism or socialism or fascism. They've called me everything.

  • Now, communism uses money. Communism has banks.

  • It has armies, navies, prisons, police and government.

  • We don't have any of those things. I want to tell you fast what the difference is.

  • Interviewer: How do we make seven billion people in the world see the same thing?

  • Jacque: When we went to war with the Nazi Germany,

  • we sent Lindbergh to Germany first because he was honored

  • as the first man to fly the ocean.

  • I don't know if you know much about him but anyway...

  • He came back and he had this to say to the Pentagon.

  • "They're turning out three thousand planes a month in Nazi Germany."

  • We had 600 first class fighting aircraft. That's all we had.

  • So the government sent special agents to all the aircraft factories and said,

  • "Expand your factories to twice the size.

  • We're going to be at war with Germany, Italy, Japan and Spain.

  • We need an expansive production."

  • The aircraft factory owners had a board meeting and they said, "No.

  • Because after war we're stuck with big factories and no orders for airplanes. The answer is no."

  • So the government said, "We'll pay for it with public funds."

  • They borrowed money from the banks, created this super debt with the public funds.

  • After the war the American people owned 60% of American industry

  • and they gave it to them for three cents on the dollar, gave it back to industry.

  • The public doesn't know that. It's not in our schoolbooks.

  • As they long as they don't know, "What are you? Some kind of foreign agent?" They got mad at me.

  • Interviewer: I personally, Jacque, I think civil society... Because it is

  • untenable that it will go on into the future, I think it will collapse.

  • My vision of the future is we will all fight it out.

  • There will be a giant World War III for better words, and God help us all.

  • I don't believe in God, but God help us all. And I think we've gone

  • since the agricultural revolution the wrong way. Jacque: I think what you just said

  • has a higher basis of probability than The Venus Project, but I can't accept that.

  • Interviewer: But the reason why I think... Jacque: You understand that? I can't accept that.

  • So I'm going to do everything I can possibly do

  • and Roxanne, and the people who support it, to change people.

  • If it fails, it fails. I'm not an idealist

  • who thinks The Venus Project will be accepted by people. That I don't know.

  • Roxanne: It doesn't take everyone to make this happen.

  • Most people want to know what's in it for me.

  • And if things did collapse, if there were a group of people

  • that can initiate The Venus Project in some way...

  • And The Venus Project is about making things abundant and available for people.

  • And if they see it's a higher standard of living for them,

  • they would most likely accept it after things crash, and they can't eat,

  • and they don't have any place to live and they have no job.

  • Interviewer: We all know that to make big change is so much easier after chaos.

  • Like hurricane Katrina; the companies went and privatized all the schools, no problem.

  • Roxanne: But if there wasn't a direction to work toward,

  • if there isn't another alternative and I don't see any other alternative out there

  • that's updated with our science and technology for the benefit of people,

  • not for the benefit of industries and corporations as it is today,

  • but for the benefit of people and the well-being of the environment,

  • then we're not going to make it. We'll turn right into fascism.

  • The more that people understand this direction,

  • that there is another direction to work towards,

  • not people who misunderstand it and think it's the Rothschilds or one world government.

  • It's funny to us because it's so much the opposite. They haven't looked into it at all.

  • Then we might have some chance of some kind of sane sustainable future.

  • Interviewer: The Venus Project would seem appealing, but would

  • people in The Venus Project be happy if I took

  • all the people back into the jungle and lived away from your society?

  • Like, is it possible for there to be two ways?

  • Jacque: The jungle... There are so many people on Earth today.

  • I think you're trying to ask a deeper question than that.

  • Who makes the decisions in the future?

  • Who decides which way people ought to live?

  • The carrying capacity of the environment. Do you know what that means?

  • If the environment can support so many animals

  • if they alter the environment by earthquakes, so water goes into the ground, most animals will die.

  • So we study the carrying capacity of the earth and how many people do we have on it.

  • And if we do use all the Earth's resources,

  • can we wipe out poverty? Can we build hospitals?

  • Instead of digging up nickels and dimes for medical research.

  • So far, up to now, we still have more than enough resources, even with all the waste and war.

  • Now, if you take the total cost of World War II,

  • I'm talking about bombing England, bombing Germany, flattening it out,

  • 400 ships on the bottom of the sea, thousands or millions of dead people,

  • and just take the money that it cost to build and fight that war,

  • you could have housed everybody on earth, wiped out the slums all over the world,

  • build hospitals all over the world. There is something wrong with our culture.

  • There is something wrong with all your bullshit, mathematicians.

  • They're always doing higher plane mathematics.

  • That's why I don't like this guy in a wheelchair that is interested in particle behavior.

  • If they were scientists, "Why do people kill each other?"

  • Get out of that God damned field. I don't give a shit about whether the planet moves

  • and oscillates at an orbit while the world is going to hell."

  • Interviewer: Yeah. Let's get our priorities right.

  • Does that answer your question? (Interviewer: Yeah. it does.) There are problems now.

  • And I don't want to go to the moon because when we start going to other planets,

  • the next war will be out there.

  • I want people to learn to live together and go out into space

  • as a joint venture. Is that acceptable? (Interviewer: Yeah.)

  • I'm very much against any single nation going out there.

  • Interviewer: Well, absolutely because it's just an act of separation. Jacque: Where do we disagree?

  • Interviewer: We don't.

  • Interviewer: If the three and a half billion Indian and Chinese want an American lifestyle,

  • this planet will last maybe another 20 years.

  • So we all know that the system maybe even needs to collapse.

  • Jacque: I think you know more than they do.

  • If you can impart that information...

  • Some people know this much, some know that much.

  • They all don't really know. And they think that somehow our government looks after us.

  • They have false beliefs. Or "God won't let it happen. Jesus will come down first."

  • You know what I mean? They have misinformation and that divides us.

  • It's my job: when I talk to priests and ministers, I turn them around.

  • I've changed many different ministers. To agnostics, not atheists.

  • But I've changed them so they no longer believe that Jesus is going to come down the clouds.

  • And I tell them those are little stories.

  • If you've ever watched me to talk to a group of people, I approach them differently.

  • Knowing a little bit about their background, I change the tone.

  • I don't talk to people to win approval.

  • I talk to them, at my delivering what I know to be relevant, relatively slow.

  • And I know that I myself in two years will be changed if I live that long.

  • I'll change things. Interviewer: I think you will live to 2012.

  • Jacque: I have no fixed notion of what the world ought to be.

  • It's constantly... See these are called, the word for these types of society is called established.

  • The society I talk about is called emergent.

  • It's never established. It's always undergoing change.

  • To where? I don't know. Because the next 40 years

  • will be so many new inventions. I can't extrapolate.

  • I can only to a limited extent.

  • The Venus Project isn't perfect. It's just a hell of a lot better.

  • And it's a start in bringing the world together.

  • I'd rather attempt that than go down in flames with society.

  • Interviewer: Why do so many people use the word "cult"

  • when talking about The Venus Project? Jacque: Because they never read the book.

  • If they read the book and they say, "Your society has insufficiencies." I say, "Like what?"

  • "Well, your beams aren't thick enough to hold up the building." Give me information.

  • And they say, "Well, you want to stop cars from hitting. How would you...?" I know how to do that.

  • I know how to put up houses automatically.

  • I designed one of the earliest prefabricated houses. It was exhibited in Warner Brother's Studios.

  • They charged, I think it was $3 a piece for people just to look at it.

  • And that money went to the Heart Fund. You can look it up.

  • Roxanne: Everything new was ridiculed and laughed at in the beginning.

  • When the Wright Brothers were developing the plane, the scientists of the time, (Jacque: established)

  • all of them were saying that man can't fly, but the Wright Brothers never read those books,

  • and they went right ahead and built a flying machine.

  • We don't listen to what people say when they call it names and it can't happen,

  • because if you listen to that there'd be nothing new.

  • Interviewer: Do you think, Jacque, the power of love could ever overcome the love of power?

  • Jacque: Well, that's a quote I've heard many times.

  • First of all, the word "love" doesn't mean the same thing to different people.

  • I always ask what do you mean by love?

  • I'm going to tell you that that love will crash and a new word will come in.

  • It's called extensionality. If you meet a person with six arms,

  • you might say, "Eh! What the hell is that?"

  • He says, "I can pet a dog, eat soup, scratch my back and shake hands with my brother-in-law."

  • But people don't do that. They think, "Eh!"

  • Interviewer: I know something I'd like to do with my spare hands.

  • Jacque: Okay. The point is when people use the word love

  • they use it in the context of the civilization and experience that they have.

  • In the future, when people meet, a guy is going to

  • see how extensional that person would be to him.

  • And they will associate with one another because of extensionality.

  • Meaning, if you met people that taught you how to grow food faster,

  • healthier, how to live healthy, if you realize what they were doing,

  • you would tend to associate with people that were extensional.

  • The word "love" has so many different meanings to so many different people,

  • we would rather use extensionality.

  • When I told the aircraft industry you can break a flat spin

  • by turning your wing tips into the wind,

  • when I told them you can get airplane tires to turn, they loved it.

  • But the tire company did not like it.

  • Interviewer: Of course not. Because it affected their sales. You'd need less tires.

  • Jacque: That's why you have to concern yourself with many different aspects of the social system.

  • Interviewer: I think my personal role is to bring about chaos after the order.

  • Do you have anything to say about that? For someone like me, I want to...

  • Jacque: You don't have to worry about it. It's going to happen. Interviewer: Yeah. I agree.

  • Jacque: It's happening now all over the world.

  • Interviewer: Okay. Let's get more close and personal now, Jacque. We have 15 minutes left on the battery.

  • Do you have any religious or spiritual or esoteric or occult beliefs?

  • Jacque: If I knew what you mean by those words... I'd use the term extensionality.

  • Interviewer: Okay. It that like transhumanism? Am I understanding it correctly?

  • Jacque: Yes. I'm interested in that. I believe that humans

  • 500 years after now will be very different than we are.

  • So different that we won't make the history books in the future. We're so low grade and primitive.

  • Interviewer: Many people would argue that we used to be...

  • Jacque: I don't like what I'm saying, but that's the way it seems. You asked me.

  • Interviewer: Why do you not like what you're saying?

  • Jacque: Well, because I wish they had been reasonable enough

  • to make the transition without all the suffering. They're not.

  • Interviewer: I hope this film makes many people calmer about you guys,

  • because I agree, the world is fucked. Yeah. It's fucked.

  • And The Venus Project offers something which we could do after it collapses,

  • Are we both in agreement, Jacque, it needs to collapse?

  • Jacque: People get mad and they say, "Why do you wait for the collapse? Why don't you do it now?"

  • Interviewer: It's impossible to do it now. Jacque: I can't.

  • Roxanne: But we're working on it. We're not just sitting around waiting for the collapse.

  • What's important now is to educate people about a positive alternative, a workable alternative.

  • And it takes a lot of education because it is quite different in every area.

  • Interviewer: I asked you about any religious spiritual beliefs, you said "extensionality"?

  • Jacque: Do you know what I mean by that? A microscope is an extensional device.

  • When I first met Einstein, I said, "Do you believe in truth?"

  • He said, "What do you mean by truth?" I said, "Well, this is smooth."

  • Then he put it under a microscope and it looked like that. (Interviewer: So this is Einstein you've met?) Yes.

  • And I said, "Gee, is that really what it looks like?"

  • He said, "No". He we blew it up more, it looked like slivers.

  • He said, "If you lock your frame, to naked eye vision this is smooth.

  • But to an insect this is rough. To a germ it's mountainous."

  • So I said, "What's it really like?" He said, "That's a stupid question.

  • We can't see what things are really like, only what they are to our receptors."

  • I said, "I don't understand you."

  • He said, "Well, the dog can hear 30 thousand cycles in sound.

  • The best humans can do is 22 thousand cycles per second."

  • He said, "Sharks can detect one ounce of blood at five miles in the sea away."

  • No human can do that.

  • He said, "When you say humans are the highest evolved forms, you are projecting, Jacque."

  • He said, "There are many different animals... A chicken hawk can see a dime

  • from the top of the Empire State. A human being only a three foot ball.

  • When you say we're the highest form, talk about what area."

  • When you talk about love, say, "Do you love your mother? In what area?"

  • I didn't like my mother's racial views, her prejudice, her bigotries,

  • but she was nice to me. She was concerned.

  • When you say, "I'm in love with that person", that's never true.

  • You like certain aspects about them. And once you learn that

  • that it's a fluctuating thing, you don't become confused. You understand.

  • All I'm talking about is extensionality in the referent that I use it. Okay?

  • Interviewer: What is consciousness to you, Jacque?

  • Jacque: Well, people believe it's a degree of awareness.

  • That animals don't say, "I'm alive, I'm living on earth. How interesting!"

  • And if you show a cannibal a wristwatch, open the back,

  • he won't say, "Look at those fantastic gears." He can't.

  • He doesn't even have the associations. So when he looks at a watch, he grins.

  • That's all he does. He says, "Nice."

  • And he'll wear it around his neck, never use it as a time piece.

  • People depending on their background do not see the world you see as you see it

  • because lack of extensionality in their education.

  • Their educated to serve the institutions they're brought up in.

  • They're not educated to what you call think and reason and go beyond that.

  • We try to do that with every human being.

  • And where we fail we'll try to solve that problem.

  • If I can't get to a person I say, "I don't know how to get to them."

  • I don't say, "They're dumb". I say, "I don't know how to reach them".

  • Which makes me work harder. Okay?

  • Interviewer: Do you think ultimately everything will be okay for the human species?

  • Jacque: I don't know. How do I know that? We may kill each other.

  • And we may even build this beautiful world and a meteor will smash it.

  • I don't know. Who the hell knows? I saved a kid from drowning once,

  • and somebody said, "It's a wonderful thing you did."

  • I said, "That I don't know. Unless I see a picture of that kid's life thereafter."

  • If he became Adolf Hitler, I'd say "I did a lousy thing."

  • I don't know. How would I know?

  • Interviewer: Jacque, do you think there is one infinite consciousness and we're experiencing it subjectively?

  • Jacque: Not at all. Interviewer: No? Jacque: No.

  • If you look at the history of mankind, you can see that it never existed.

  • Interviewer: Well, okay. So, if we look at the overall massive cosmological bigger picture,

  • if you could sum up in maybe three minutes what's going on...

  • Jacque: I would believe that if a hurricane came and went over a church or around it.

  • Or if there is just children in a building and a hurricane went around that building,

  • I'd say there is a cosmic consciousness.

  • But hurricanes don't seem to respect anybody.

  • A tidal wave drowns thousands of people.

  • An earthquake has buildings collapse on Jews,

  • Swedes, and Catholics. It doesn't seem to give a shit.

  • Interviewer: Okay. What makes a serial killer?

  • Jacque: A guy's name was Albert Fish. They believe he ate 40 children.

  • And the public wanted to tear him to pieces or burn him alive. They were very bitter about it.

  • A psychiatrist named Wertham. His name was Wertham.

  • He said, "Don't kill him. I want to try to find out what made him that way.

  • So we can avoid those conditions in the future." I like that guy.

  • And here is what he found.

  • When Albert Fish was eight years old, he was touching his private parts.

  • His mother was an old time Baptist, good person. She came in and said,

  • "You're going to burn in hell touching that part of your body.

  • That is satanic, and you will burn eternally." She scared the shit out of the kid.

  • And the mother said at 2:00 in the morning he was screaming.

  • As she went into the bedroom he stuck needles into his genitals

  • because he didn't want to go to hell. Can you understand? (Interviewer: I do understand.)

  • Jacque: Then he used to take minority kids into the woods

  • and tried to cut their genitals off to save them from hell. (Interviewer: I understand.)

  • Jacque: What do you think a soldier is?

  • He's a guy that saw movies of Japanese raping women.

  • That's called propaganda. Because the Japanese have as many rapists as we have.

  • They're not all that different. But with propaganda you can make people hate Germans;

  • call them Krauts, Sauerkrauts and that.

  • Interviewer: And nowadays, Muslims. Jacque: Whatever it is we hate, we manipulate.

  • We make movies to get kids to enlist in the Army, showing medals, heroes.

  • And I want you to know this. I worked for a guy named Ernst Udet.

  • He was the head of the German Air force in World War I.

  • I worked for him. I said, "How did you shoot down 70 airplanes?"

  • He said, "It was very easy." That's the way he spoke.

  • He said, "I would fly above the squadrons und look at the rookies."

  • You know what that means? The amateur pilots that weren't good. "And I'd pick them off."

  • Interviewer: Predatory. Yeah. That's how he did it.

  • When you are asking, "How can you possibly do that?"

  • He answered, "Well, this is how." Jacque: Yeah. He told me.

  • Interviewer: Excellent. Jacque: Same for Eddie Rickenbacker, American hero.

  • He shot down about 65 planes. There is no other way you could do that.

  • If you had equal abilities up there you might

  • last through six or seven, not 71 airplanes.

  • You understand what I'm saying? (Interviewer: I do understand.)

  • So to me, all the people that are heroes are all part of this sham.

  • Okay? I'm not mad at them or angry at them. I understand them.

  • If you are brought up in this world, you have a machine gun and you killed 400 men enemies,

  • they put a medal on you, five medals.

  • Interviewer: You're not a mass murderer. You're not a serial killer. You're a hero.

  • Jacque: Do you understand? There are no mass murderers, no heroes, they're made by certain conditions.

  • And if we don't know what those conditions are, hate substitutes for solutions.

  • ...how they get to be the way they are. And if you know how to change them...

  • If you know the mechanisms of change, it takes...

  • People say, "How long would it take to change all the people on earth?"

  • Given control of the broadcasting companies, movies and the media, it's three months.

  • Interviewer: Three months? Jacque: That's all.

  • Interviewer: That's probably quite true. Whether they did it with swine flu or Islam.

  • Jacque: I've got that from the Army. I said, "How do you take people out of church,

  • kids, and make them killing machines? We get a guy named Frank Capra.

  • He made a movie called, Why we Fight.

  • Make the Japanese look bad. Make the Germans look terrible. Make Spain look awful.

  • Interviewer: It works every time. Jacque: It works every time.

  • How long will it take? Three months. So give me movie control,

  • of television, radio, and it doesn't take that long

  • because the people that get changed they change other people. (Interviewer: Absolutely.)

Interviewer: How do we go about changing someone's nature?

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B1 中級 美國腔

這狗屎的得到了去! (subs) - 雅克-弗雷斯科 - 維納斯計劃雅克-弗雷斯科-維納斯計劃。 (This shit's got to go! (subs) - Jacque Fresco - The Venus Project)

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    王惟惟 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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