I send an email to Peter Joseph requesting an on-camera interview...

我給彼德·約瑟夫發了Email 要求鏡頭前的訪問...

...No Response

...沒有回覆

November 3rd, 2009:

2009年11月3日

I send another email to Peter Joseph...

我再次發Email給彼德·約瑟夫...

Response!

回覆了!

Response! (November 10th)

回覆了! (11月10日)

"Charles, I am very busy at this time... I will be in and out of town this month.

"查爾斯 我現在很忙... 這個月我會往返於城內

Try me in early Dec. thx, Peter"

試試在十二月上旬聯繫我 感謝 彼德"

December 1st, 2009:

2009年12月1日

December 1st, 2009: I send another email to Peter Joseph requesting the interview...

2009年12月1日:我再次Email給彼德·約瑟夫 要求採訪...

...(waiting)

...(等待)

December 5th: "...fine- I'll give you 2 hrs. I'm in Bushwick..." P

12月5日:"...好的 我給你兩個小時 我在紐約的Bushwick..." P

Who is Peter Joseph?

彼德·約瑟夫是誰?

A Mini-Doc by Charles Robinson

查爾斯·羅賓森製作 微型紀錄片

www.whoispeterjoseph.com

www.whoispeterjoseph.com

Background

成長背景

My name is Peter Joseph. I live in Brooklyn, New York. I'm 31 years old.

我是彼德·約瑟夫 住在紐約的布魯克林區 31歲

I am an independant film maker and I suppose the de facto founder of an organisation called;

我是獨立製片人 一個被稱為"時代精神運動"

"The Zeitgeist Movement"

的創建人

As far as my background, I was born to what I consider to be a middle class family.

就我早期的背景而言 我出生於一個我認為是中產階級的家庭

My father was a... is now a retired postal employee,

我父親曾是... 現在是退休的郵政員工

and my mother is a retired Child Protective Services employee.

我母親是一個已退休的 兒童保護服務機構員工

In fact, a lot of my social dispositions on society I think might come from

事實上 我對社會的許多看法可能來自於

the experiences I had listening to the stories coming from my mother.

我從母親那裡聽來的教導和經驗

I started getting interested in music I think at about eight or nine.

我在八或九歲時開始對音樂感興趣

I seemed to fall into a love of percussion and drums and rhythm.

我有點癡迷於敲擊鼓和節奏

I was very lucky to be accepted to a school in North Carolina,

我很有幸進入北卡羅萊納州的學校

an art school in a university,

一個藝術大學

which allowed me to grow up in a very different upbringing

我認為比起那些大部分成長於

than I think most people grow up into

南方鄉村小鎮的人 如北卡州

in a rural town in a place in the south such as North Carolina.

這點能讓我成長於非常不同的教育環境中

And I was exposed to a lot of different cultures, a lot of different interests,

而且我沉浸於許多不同的文化和興趣中

a lot of things that you wouldn't find in a typical highschool, say, in the south.

這些許多東西在南方的一般高中找不到

I was exposed to a large variety of people

我與很多不同類型的人相處

and artistic and creative people, specifically,

具體而言像是有藝術氣息和創造力的人

which I think imprinted on me, so to speak,

可以說這些深深地影響了我

and I continue those trends today.

一直到如今

Music and percussion are coupled straight into my identity.

音樂和打擊樂已經融入了我的生命中

People say to me: "Well, you know, you work with this social organisation,

有人對我說:"雖然你搞了這個社會組織

but yet, you're just a musician". You know, "just a musician".

但終究你只是個搞音樂的" 你懂的 "僅是個搞音樂的"

There is the credentialism tendency that comes up a lot

任何人當談論我們在這個運動中

with anyone that talks about the issues that we talk about in the movement

所提到的問題 或已經被討論過的話題時

or that have been talked about in the films.

往往會傾向於"文憑主義"

And, we can talk about that a little bit later as well.

我們等一下也可以再談這些

But, what I'd like to say is that, I look at music now as a form of meditation.

但我想說的是 我將音樂視為一種沉思的形式

It's something that's an outlet, it maintains my balance.

有點像一種發洩方式 讓我保持平衡

So I continue to practice in a very personal sense,

所以我繼續磨練自己的能力

it's not that I go out and perform that much anymore,

不再那麼經常外出表演

I don't have time to anymore.

我沒時間做那些

After my second year of college, I dropped out

在我大二之後 我輟學了

realizing that the debt that I was accruing was absolutely not worth it.

意識到我因此而積累的債務 絕對不值得再讀下去

Even then I knew there was something wrong with going to school,

我知道那時去上學有地方不對勁

getting a ridiculous amount of debt, $80 to $100,000

積累了八到十萬美元 這麼謬荒數量的債務

and then being thrown into the work force,

接著被丟進職場

automatically in a position of indentured servitude, if you will.

自動被契約奴役 如果你願意這麼稱呼的話

Automatically having to give yourself to the system because you're already in so much debt.

自動加入這個系統 因為你已經欠了這麼多債務

My original interest was to be a solo classical marimbist,

我原本的志向是古典馬林巴琴的獨奏家

a laughable concept when I think about it now,

我現在想到這點會覺得可笑

but we all have our bouts of naivety as we grow.

但我們在成長中 都會有幼稚發作的時刻

Once music became difficult for me to pursue as a career choice,

一旦把追求音樂當成職業的選擇 變得困難時

I started to get into video and editing, and I got a job in New York,

我就開始進入影視編輯的行業 在紐約找到了一份工作

many jobs in New York, doing various freelance video editing,

在紐約做了大量工作 做了各種自由的影視編輯

shooting, whatever related to video work, film work.

攝制任何和影視有關的工作 像電影

You have to do whatever pays you in this society,

在這個社會中 你必須做那些付你錢的工作

and I couldn't really find the niche to make money in music so, I ended up in advertising.

我真的找不到用音樂來賺錢的門道 所以最後進入廣告業

I always had a problem with people telling me what to do in the labor force,

我總有些問題 有人總告訴我在職場中要做什麼

and I did not like advertising, obviously.

顯然我不喜歡幹廣告這行

I did not like the nonsensical manipulation of peoples' perceptions so corporations can sell their crap.

我不喜歡愚蠢地操縱人們的觀念 只為了讓公司賣垃圾

So I began to pursue work in the financial arena.

所以我開始在金融界找工作

I began to do day trading, pattern training.

我開始做日間貿易模擬訓練

I was moderately succesful. I never had a big capital base, which you really do have to have.

我做的相當成功 但從未有大量的資本基礎 這點是你確實必須具備的

I pulled some change out of the market,

我從市場裡提出一些零錢

and I continued to do it on and off for many, many years.

並這樣持續做著經過許多年

I don't do it anymore because I despise the market system.

我沒有再做了 因為我鄙視市場體系

The way I justified this was it was the only job I could come up with,

能說服自己去做的理由 是因為這是我唯一想得到的工作

that didn't have a boss or a client, so it represented freedom to me.

沒有老闆和客戶 讓我可以自由

Granted, trading the stock market has absolutely no social relevance,

當然 在股市上交易絕沒有什麼社會意義

it contributes nothing to society.

因為對社會毫無貢獻

You could blow up Wall Street tomorrow and it wouldn't make a damn difference to anything

你可以明天炸掉華爾街 這對任何事都沒什麼影響

in regard to the natural order of affairs on this planet.

在這個星球上 對於自然界的事物秩序也沒差

So at that stage in my life, I just wanted a way out.

因此我在生命中的那個階段 只想找個出路

I wanted to not have to deal with being a slave to the corporate system anymore.

我不想再做這個企業體系的奴隸了

So anyway, that's when I started first investigating economics,

總之 這是我開始第一次研究經濟學的原因

and we can... I'm sure you have other questions about that, so I'll stop there.

那麼我們可以... 我想你對此有其它問題 先在此打住

Zeitgeist began as a public performance,

"時代精神"一開始是一個公眾表演

an attempt at a vaudevillian concept.

是一次雜耍之類的概念嘗試

What I did was I set up two screens,

我搭建了兩個屏幕

and I had a huge percussion setup in the middle where I performed,

把一個大型的打擊樂器 架在我要表演的位置中間

with the videos that were on the two screens.

影片則出現在那兩個屏幕上

Some of the equipment you see here was used.

你可以在這裡看到一些使用過的設備

I've actually sold off most of my equipment.

我實際上賣了大部分的設備

But regardless... I think I have some photographs I can give you.

但無論怎樣... 我想有些照片可以給你看

There's only a few that actually were captured, believe it or not, at the original event.

信不信由你 但在原本的活動中只照了非常少的照片

I wish I had documented the original event,

我希望當時能記錄下原始的活動(但其實沒有)

because people keep asking me about it.

因為有人不斷問我這些

But never the less, it started off as a creative work,

但這一開始確實是一件創意作品

a variation on an early vaudevillian concept.

蛻變於那次早期的隨意想法

Film and live music. Live performance.

就像電影 現場音樂 即興表演

And once it was over, you know there was a...

一旦結束後 就有了...

it was a free event. I did it for six nights, I believe.

這是個隨便的活動 我想只用了六個晚上

And people came, I advertised it like crazy.

接著有人來看 我像瘋了一樣去宣傳

I spent thousands and thousands of dollars.

花了大把大把的錢

I did it mainly because I had been stuck in the corporate reality,

我做這件事主要是因為 我被困於企業體系的現實中

and I just wanted to do something for myself to make myself feel better

我只是想做一些事 讓我自己感覺好一點

about a world that's going to shit, essentially.

因為這個世界基本上越來越爛

A world that's being dominated by finance, a world that's sick and distorted,

這是一個被金融主宰的社會 一個病態扭曲的世界

through religious processes, financial oligarchs.

被宗教儀式 金融寡頭操縱

It was just an expression, it was in fact a very angry, but solemn expression.

這只是一種表達 雖然很憤怒 但事實上很莊重

I never expected it to turn out to be what it was, at all.

我完全從沒想過結果會變成怎樣

After it was over, I just found myself in a little bit more debt.

在這之後 我還發現因此背了點債

And I took the work which, by the way, I had no clearance for,

順便說一下 我還沒去解決

I didn't clear any of the aspects with it.

我還沒解決掉任何債務方面的問題

But, since the internet is what it is, tossed it up online to see what would happen.

但由於有網路 我就把這些影片丟上去 看看會發生什麼事

Maybe some people would like it, they'd download it, I'd get some feedback.

也許有人會喜歡並下載 我能得到一些回饋

Whatever.

怎樣都好

What happened completely blew my mind.

但結果完全出乎我意外之外

I posted it on one website, and from there, a chain reaction occured, and I...

我放在一個網站上 在那裡發生了連鎖反應 然後我...

It's pretty much all history from that point on, I couldn't even tell you how it unfolded.

從那時起都是些歷史了 我甚至不知道該怎麼對你說後續

All I know is that,

反正我所知的是

I got wind of the fact that it was getting a tremendous amount of hits,

我聽到風聲說有巨大的點擊量

and talked about a lot, so I built a website for it:

還有許多的討論 因此我建了一個網站

www.zeitgeistmovie.com

www.zeitgeistmovie.com

And I just had it up there for free.Then I realized that people wanted it on DVD.

然後我又上傳以免費下載 並意識到人們會想要DVD版本

Like ok, I guess I should try to do that.

我想說應該試著去做這些事

So I was forced into a very difficult position of getting clearance from all the participants involved,

所以我被迫處於非常困窘的立場 就是滿足所有人的需要

which was very difficult, by the way because,

這是非常困難的 因為這使人

everyone saw dollar-signs,

看到了錢的問題

because it's an internet film that's getting millions of views.

因為這是一部在網路上有數百萬點閱率的電影

So I had to pay out a lot of money to a set number of people to get it going.

那麼我就需要花許多錢去找人維持下去

But there were also people that were just happy to see this information get out there,

但也有人看到這方面的訊息出來就很高興

and didn't have any problems with me doing

願意跟我一起做這些

what I call a "non-commercial distribution".

被我稱為"非盈利傳遞"的事

A $5 DVD, for it to be released, in some capacity.

如果有人願意買 五美元一張DVD

From there I got an email from an organization called the Artivist Film Festival.

接著我收到一封Email 來自一個叫"藝術家電影節"的組織

And, to my amazement, they wanted to show the film in their festival,

讓我吃驚的是 他們想在電影節上放我的電影

which was a packed audience, sold out audience.

當時擠滿了觀眾 票被賣光

At this stage it was still utterly bewildering to me.

在當時我仍然完全感到不解

This was the same organization of course that showed Zeitgeist: Addendum the next year.

也是同樣的組織 在隔年播放了"時代精神:附錄"

"In a world where media is often used to keep us a little dumbed down

"我的意見是比起其它任何事 世界上的媒體

more than anything else, as far as my opinion is concerned."

通常都不斷讓我們變得更愚蠢"

(Applause)

(掌聲)

I've often said, art without conscience is meaningless,

我經常說 沒有良心的藝術沒有內涵

and I think action without conscience is futile.

沒有良心的行動也是枉然

So, I think it's so great to have a festival that represents these types of ideas.

所以我認為 有這種電影節能呈現這類想法是很棒的

As far as the film itself,

對這部電影來說

I guess all I can really say is that the whole point of the film

我真的想說這部電影的所有觀點

is for people to start looking at the very fundamental root causes

是讓人們開始看到"根源"

of all of these problems that we see in society.

關於我們所看到 全部社會問題的根源

So, that's a general run down of what happened.

總之大概就是這樣的過程

The Zeitgeist Movement.

時代精神運動

The Zeitgeist movement was a very difficult decision for me.

時代精神運動對我來說 是個非常困難的決定

I could have just made Zeitgeist: Addendum like other socially conscious film makers do

我本來可以完全像其它有社會意識的製片人那樣 去製作《時代精神:附錄》

in the sense that I could have just said: "Oh, well here's a bunch of stuff,

那樣的話我可以只是說:"噢 這裡有堆東西

here's a bunch of problems. Hey, here are some possible solutions.

這裡有堆問題 還有些可能的解決方案

Take what you will with it, and just roll with it and see what happens."

挑你喜歡的隨意看一下發生了什麼"

I really was on the fence about putting at the very end;

我當時真的不確定是否要在影片的最後

"Join the movement www.thezeitgeistmovement.com"

放上這串字:"加入這個運動 www.thezeitgeistmovement.com"

And 6) Join the movement.

6) 加入這個運動

Go to thezeitgeistmovement.com and help us create

到thezeitgeistmovement.com 幫助我們創造

the largest mass movement for social change the world has ever seen.

史上最大規模的群眾社會變革運動

I knew that the moment that it became something more than just a film phenomenon,

我知道在那一刻 整件事就超過了只是一種影片熱潮

that my life would likely change dramatically, which it has.

我的生活也確實出現了戲劇性的改變

Zeitgeist: Addendum was sparked out of people emailing me saying,

"時代精神:附錄"的靈感 來自於人們問我的Email:

"Well, what do we do about all of these cultural problems?

"嗯 我們對這些所有的文化問題該怎麼做?"

What do we do about a corrupt banking system?

"我們對腐敗的銀行體系該怎麼做?"

What do we do about people that are locked into establishment social programs, if you will?"

"對那些被困在社會既建體制中的人們 我們該怎麼做?"

I consider the trains of thought and mind to be a program.

我認為人們的思考與想法像一種程式

I consider society itself to be a program that's running.

我認為社會本身也是一種運行中的程式

And the programing locks people into a specific frame of reference.

而這個程式將人們困鎖於特定的參照框架內

How do we deal with these issues?

我們該怎麼解決這些議題?

How do we do, what do we do?

我們該怎麼做 做什麼?

And Zeitgeist: Addendum was an attempt at answering that question.

"時代精神:附錄"嘗試回答這個問題

After Zeitgeist 1 was released, it got into the hands of Jacque and Roxanne.

在"時代精神1"播出後 雅克和羅克珊也看到了

And after reading Jacques book, which they sent me,

在我讀過他們寄給我雅克寫的書後

I realized that this was really important information.

我意識到這真是一個重要的訊息

I realized that, even I was backwards on a lot of issues that needed to be corrected.

我意識到 甚至我本人對許多需要解決的問題 也所知不足

And in order to get society in line,

為了達成社會和諧

we have to think about the fundamental problems.

我們需要思考根本的問題

This was something that I was attempting to do in part, I had a notion of,

這是我試圖做的部分 我有很多想法

but it wasn't until I met Jacque Fresco that the lense became focused.

但直到我遇到雅克·法斯科 才讓所有重點都聚焦起來

It was like all these things that I sort of had an inkling of,

就像所有的事情開始冒出一些端倪

Jacque's experience, life experience, what he had talked about for so long,

雅克他長久以來一直在談論的生命經驗

just focused me in the right direction, as far as I'm concerned.

對我而言馬上就引導我至明確的方向

So I made a whole section with him in Zeitgeist: Addendum,

因此我在"時代精神:附錄"裡 為他空出整個章節

and that's how it took off.

然後事情就這樣開展了

ATTACKS

抨擊

Anyone that chooses to challenge establishment orthodoxy,

如果任何人挑戰既建的"正統"觀念

traditional world views, not to mention the system that we live in,

傳統的世界觀念 更別提我們生活於其中的體系

sets themself up for vehement attacks.

那就會讓他們自己遭受惡毒的抨擊

I'm well aware of this.

我很清楚這一點

If you look back at the history of anyone that has chosen to challenge the establishment,

回頭看歷史 如果任何人選擇挑戰既建制度

it's a very dark history.

那是一段非常黑暗的歷史

There are a great number of people out there that know that something is wrong.

有很多人意識到這個社會出了問題

But, they do not understand the source of that wrongness,

但他們看不到問題的根源在哪裡

because they are in the box of indoctrination.

因為他們被禁錮在思想灌輸的牢籠

Socrates. Socrates never speculated on the slavery that was existing during his time.

蘇格拉底從未思索過他當時的奴隸制度

That was normality to him.

這對他很正常

This goes with every type of political philosopher that's ever existed,

這點適用於每一位存在過的政治哲學家

whether it's Carl Marx, whether it's Plato.

無論是卡爾·馬克思 還是柏拉圖

They're all locked into an established paradigm,

他們都被困鎖在既建的模式之中

and their thought processes can only go so far.

他們的思想 只能讓社會前進到一定範圍

And this includes, probably, myself.

這很可能也包括我自己

People are locked into a box.

人們都是被困在一個空間裡

They see the box around them,

他們看見四周的空間

they see the leaks and the holes and the cracks and they go up to the cracks

他們看到漏洞裂縫 然後去到那裡

and they try to fix them; they try to patch the holes.

嘗試修理 補正

But they don't stop to think that maybe there's something wrong with the box, itself.

但他們沒有停下來想 也許這個空間本身就出了問題

Maybe the integrity of the box that they exist in is inherently invalid, it's inherently void.

也許整個空間根本就是無用的 根本就需要拋棄